The many posts here attempting to "understand" Hasan

[cali]

or to justify what he did by saying "we created him", or urging compassion for him, remind me of the freepers reaction to Scott Roeder's murder of George Tiller. The bottom line, is that both are murderers, and evidently both justified their actions on their interpretations of religion- though there is more evidence of that with Roeder than with Hasan.

One thing is certain, the hand wringing here about how Hasan was not present with concern to Roeder.

And yes, of course we should find out everything we can about why Hasan did what he did. At the end of the day, however, he is responsible for his heinous act of mass murder.

[Bluzmann57]

1. I don't know why he did what he did

And neither does anyone in here. So why don't we all just wait until the police investigate this and then make our comments? But you are certainly correct when you say he is a murderer and should be punished.

[virgogal]

2. I'm with you. Why he killed doesn't matter---the fact is he killed

13 innocent people.

[aquart]

9. Yeah, we sure wouldn't want to do anything to prevent that in future.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to salvage human beings without seeing them as human. I suppose we don't really have to look at why Hasan the shrink stopped seeing the people of Ft. Hood as human, as comrades. Not when we see the behavior here. It takes humans to dehumanize.

It is common.

[FormerDittoHead]

11. ALLEGEDLY Killed.

:sarcasm:

Excuse my humor.

I'm reminded of a Mad Magazine one-panel strip that had a picture of a man shooting another man, you could see the smoke coming out of the gun, and an overlay on the TV pointing to the shooter saying "alleged assassin"...

[Bluerthanblue]

12. WHY he killed is vitally important- "that" he killed, is a fact- something

we already know.

We know the effect- it is not only foolish, it's self-destructive NOT to try and find out why- And finding out 'why' isn't to excuse anything, it is to learn what might be done to prevent or intervene in future acts.

Anger and vengence will not bring anyone back, or prevent others from falling victim to a similar fate.

is that so difficult to understand??

[Swede]

3. Only a mental illness will be a legitimate excuse.

All others don't cut it.

[Th1onein]

4. I think there is a high probability that he IS mentally ill.

n/t

[paulsby]

7. even if so, mental illness isn't an excuse or a way to avoid guilt

for example, being depressed, or bipolar, etc.

that's nice, but not legally relevant to guilt or innocence.

as long as he is legally SANE, and one can be quite mentally ill and still be sane, he should get the death penalty imo

[Th1onein]

23. Psychotropic drugs that split a person from reality is relevant though.

And there are some drugs that do that. WHY isn't mainstream media asking what medications this guy was on? I think it's because they would rather paint this as a terrorist attack on our own soil while Obama is president.

[JonQ]

5. Very well stated

I know people say they are just trying to understand, not defend hasan. But when they only give certain people that treatment, and unconditionally condemn others then it does equate to defending him.

For instance: all black murderers: guilty, they should swing. Any white murderer: well let's not be too hasty, let's try to figure out his motives and see if there is a mitigating factor here.

[redqueen]

15. +1

[paulsby]

6. the parallel is typical and sad. nt

[mullard12ax7]

8. Yes, it'd be horrible to find out why he did it and prevent it from happening again huh?

Let's just fling poo at him, "Bad murderer". He's just like a freeper!

[JonQ]

13. Compare the response to hasans terrorism

to tillers: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3900787#3900792

See of if you can spot the difference.

[bullwinkle428]

19. Disingenuous bullshit to post only the LBN thread, which was the immediate

reaction to the act!

There was a GREAT DEAL of discussion regarding all of the "men behind the curtain" of the lunatic fringe of anti-abortion movement, and how this Roeder was nothing more than a pathetic and incredibly naive dupe of those low-life scum. Rachel Maddow certainly got into quite a bit of this on multiple occasions following the shooting on her show, but maybe you don't spend a lot of time watching her...

[JonQ]

21. And who exactly said this was because

of a climate of hatred against christians? Or anti-christian teasing?

[JoeyT]

24. Because he wasn't forced to endure anti-christian teasing.

I swear y'all haul out the persecution card faster every single time.

[JonQ]

27. Ah, so hasan was persecuted until he snapped

as are all muslim terrorists. But christians and others do not get this consideration and in fact do it because they are hatefilled extremists.

You see what I mean about making excuses only for one group but not the other? And how eventually that does come off as defending them?

[nolabear]

10. But why would anyone not want to understand? Not excuse, but understand.

It's the only way we can help to prevent it from happening again. This terrible act goes from the specific to the general, from whatever underlying pathology made him feel that he had the right to kill others to the world view that echoes the same. Maybe by even making the effort to understand him we can make inroads toward finding other ways of dealing with our differences and our wounds.

[Bluerthanblue]

16. maybe because it involves seeing the 'killer' as something

other than "alien". It requires having a kind of ..empathy?... for the person who did something that is difficult for most people to accept, let alone try to comprehend.

Understanding something doesn't mean condoning it- We have much to learn, but can only DO that if we open our minds and reign in our own anger and grief.

:shrug:

(There is an element of "monster" in every single one of us. Denying and ignoring that doesn't make it go away- denial DOES kill.)

[WeDidIt]

14. He's definitely a murderer, no doubt abut that in my mind.

I'm leaning towards terrorist, but need a bit more confirmation before I'm convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that his actions were terrorism.

[JackRiddler]

17. Tell it to the Army sociologists who will be writing dissertations on him in the future.

"Understand," saying "we" created, and urging compassion are three different things, but go ahead and lump'em all into your own soup.

[mmonk]

18. To never ask why is to have it happen again.

I'm pretty sure I understand why he did it. He did it because he snapped due to the war. The war was something he could not agree with due to his religious connection. Instead of behaving rationally through seeking help or resisting deployment, he chose a horrible action against unarmed persons in a confined space and must face the consequences of those murders. Being in contact with his former iman didn't help. People should seek professionals. I do not see further conspiracy.

[LatteLibertine]

20. Anyone

that picks up weapons and decides to kill as many people as he can until stopped or slain, is not wholly sane.

I hate that folks are trying to use this event as an opportunity to vilify all Muslims and Islam. They're trying to further feed fear and build up the military industrial complex.

I have no excuses and no sympathy for Hasan. Ask all the questions you will. I am sure something like this will occur again. There were warning signs and the military could have acted to defuse this situation.

Many people have been persecuted, vilified and have had extremely hard lives yet don't resort to mass murder.

Yes, I wish we would get the heck out of the Middle East. Most of our true interests have been war profiteering and oil. Young men and women should not be dying for that. If the wealthy want to profiteer let them go and/or send their own.

[Peregrine Took]

22. I'm trying to "understand" him as I would anyone who acts in an aberrational

manner. Why did he do it? Seems like a normal thing to try to determine, in fact it seems abnormal not to wonder what motivated him.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

25. Nah, freepers are nowhere near that subtle

They openly applauded him.

But I get your point. Both are religious simpletons.

[NightWatcher]

26. Examine to Understand to Prevent

I'm sorry but I want to study and research so that I can understand why this happened. I earned a BS in CJ and continue to study human behavior. I worked for ten years trying to investigate motivations and actions.

No one (ok I'm not) is making excuses or taking a 'blame America" approach here.

A 'Reason' does not equal an 'Excuse'.

'Because' does not equal 'Justification'