Isn't it funny how threatening those who speak truth to power are to establishment interests?

[Political Heretic]

I find it funny, the number of people saying that those speaking truth to power in washington are just "all talk" - as though the voice of truth to power is insignificant.

If that's true, then its hard to reconcile the amount of attention and furor that someone like Kuchinich - but certainly not just Kucinich but rather anyone who rises in opposition to an establishment agenda - generates among establishment Democrats.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Belittling those who speak out for being unable to "accomplish" much is, in my mind, not so much an indictment of people like Kuchinich or Sanders, or other deeply convicted democratic socialists - rather, it is an indictment of our establishment party that serves the rich and privileged first, and throws scraps and crumbs to the rest.

And it surprises me that here on Democratic Underground, I'd have to point out where our criticism should be focused. Actually, I'm sad to say it doesn't surprise me at all these days.

I guess the difference between me and the detractors is that, I do think that the political gadflys, the truth tellers, and those severing as voice for the working class America that I know and love serve a serious and meaningful purpose.

And that is they remind us of truth, and don't let establishment democrats as easily ignore their guilty consciences as they continue to feed the privileged elite first, throw scraps and crumbs to the "middle class," and let the poor people starve.

From that middle class that at least get scraps it targets women, gays, and minorities and says "you don't want to starve do you? Then be our whipping boys.

We will accomplish our top priorities for our privileged interests on your backs, by throwing away your rights, negotiating away your freedom, by offering our enemies your demotion to second class status as a bargaining chip. And then, we have accomplished our agenda for our premier constituency of wealth, privilege and power - we promise we'll get back to you and make it right.

From the poor they neither ask for anything nor given anything. They would simply prefer to ignore the undesirables.

When someone comes along and starts speaking about these realities, it stings the guilty consciences of establishment democrat apologists - usually people in the upper middle class, who somewhere deep down inside realize they are betraying their own class and their poor to be the cheerleader of the privileged.

Guilty consciences drive a lot of inflammatory posting around here. Guilty consciences, rational minds and feeling hearts are not easily quieted when one sells out to privilege in exchange for a pretend sense that you actually exist above your status.

Democratic Underground which is, I promise you, overwhelmingly white and overwhelmingly upper middle class should just be renamed Bourgeois Underground.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. Kucinich? Threatening? The Kook? For Real?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Political Heretic]

3. In my opinion, your response only makes my point rather than undermines it.

methinks though dost protest too much.

[rucky]

13. You're 12 LOL's short of being completely annoying.

[tekisui]

18. Nah.

He's 113 past that point.

[Blue_In_AK]

2. Typical response from OMC.

For what it's worth, Political Heretic, I agree with you 100 percent.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

5. Of Course. It Was Rooted In Honesty And Reality.

Pretty par for the course. :hi:

[Blue_In_AK]

8. You crack me up, Dude.

I can always count on you for a good laugh. :hi:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

4. I love the absolute certainty of the "truth" you have.

I think that's the part where you and the rest of humanity disagree.

[Political Heretic]

16. I don't think its absolute certainly:

"truth to power" is the phrase you are referring to, I think.

Absolutes and absolute certainty are not something that I believe in. The alternative however is not the inability to ever agree on anything, or ever describe a shared reality.

There are general principles, realities, and factual data that allow us to understand some thing that can generally be described as small "t" truths.

Disagreeing about whether or not this heath care bill should be passed, that's not something where I'd claim absolute certainty. Maybe the net benefits will outweigh the net costs. That's worth discussion.

But what I think is difficult to debate, is the fact that our national politics serves first the interests of those that pay to get them and keep them elected, and that the work done in congress is forever tarnished by that priority.

Speaking "truth" (again, small t) to power, doesn't mean expressing dogmatic absolutes. It means having the courage to challenge establishment powers with inconvenient facts. It means speaking up and representing voices of the powerless.

There's nothing about absolute truth here. It's about whether one speaks with the voice of the disenfranchised in mind or with the voice of established privilege.

How we do that, what that means - that's up for debate, interpretation, probably varies in context.

If I am to say something like, corporations too frequently exert undo influence on your political process which in turn hurts the quality of our laws and can undermine our legislator's status as representatives of the "people" - if you think that's dogmatic absolutism, then I guess I can't help you.

That, to me, simply seems to be observable reality. Note that the statement includes "too frequently" - which means not always, and "can" which is not the same as "will." It is possible to understand general principles or patterns based on facts and observation that are frequently, even if not always, true. And I don't think that's anything similar to absolute certainty of any sort.

[rucky]

6. Everybody has different tolerance levels to change.

It's like what Carlin said about drivers: Everybody slower than you is an idiot, and everyone faster than you is a maniac.

[pampango]

7. If the HCR vote had been 434-1, then that would be telling truth to power. When one votes with 99%

of the republicans and Blue Dogs, and the Progressive Caucus goes 55-2 the other way, it is harder (not impossible) to make the "truth to power" case. DK is neither saint nor sinner, but a good progressive whose heart is in the right place.

[madrchsod]

9. someone is`t happy with what you wrote

it is class warfare. i have no idea on the class make-up of the democratic underground. i do know there are some who wish the progressive wing of the democratic party would go to the back of the bus.

[QC]

10. Apparently this thread set off the dissent alarm in the compound. n/t

[Political Heretic]

24. The response was rapid and rabid. That's what happens when you hit close to home.

Sigh.

[Political Heretic]

19. The class make-up of DU is easy to assess.

Bourgeois Underground is run by white upper middle class people, and populated in overwhelming numbers by white upper middle class members. This is something you can virtually guarantee.

As far as class warfare goes, just because someone is middle class, or upper middle class, or wealthy does not make them bad people. And just because someone is working class or poor does not make them good people.

But it is hard to deny that there is a great temptation among the upper middle class to identify in actions and opinions with the rulers rather than the people.

We should be honest about the fact that upper middle class persons face a special sort of challenge, and lots of pressures to end up being lapdogs of privileged interests rather than stand in solidarity with ordinary people. It is easy to loose tough with the realities of the working class and poor. Privilege can breed complacency. It takes conscious effort to resist those forces.

And its very necessary to point out the class component that goes into DU's modern trend away from a place that reflects and views and interests of the working class and poor, and toward a place that reflects the views of the powerful and privileged.

It's different than some conservative place. Where some conservative place might completely hug corporations, the insurance industry, etc., establishment democrats still speak form one side of their mouth against corporate exploitation of people, but at the same reflect a timidity and unwillingness to stand in solidarity with the poor, for fear of risking all the status and comforts they already have.

"Class" is a state of mind, not an income amount. You can stand in solidarity with the poor and with working Americans, or you can be a mouthpiece of the interests of the privileged and powerful. But you can't do both.

Race is something else that has a huge influencing factor... but I'm out of time. :P

[LatteLibertine]

11. I'm

not sure what you would have us do. The majority of both parties are corrupt. For me, the Democratic party is the lesser of two evils.

If health care reform is defeated President Obama will be greatly weakened for the rest of his term and it will throw momentum to the Republicans who will endlessly trumpet it as a "victory" and the end of Obama. Many of them are out there now saying the recent election of Republican governors in VA and NJ is a "sign" of things to come. I have no desire to see their age ushered back in. While the Democrats need to represent poor and minority causes better the Republicans representation of such is virtually nil.

Like Kucinich, I'd love for single payer to be the heart of the bill. I don't believe it will pass like that. I do believe if we pass some manner of reform there is a greater chance of passing more meaningful reform in the future. I believe things will get done in increments, not leaps.

[Angry Dragon]

12. What is upper middle class??

I do not think I fit that

[Political Heretic]

20. It is a stae of mind, not an income.

[Brickbat]

14. Frankly, I think there's been plenty of speaking over the years.

It's time to start DOING. "Speaking truth to power" doesn't impress me much, because I think a lot more things could get done if we'd just fucking grab the power instead of talking to it.

[The Magistrate]

15. Nonesense, Sir

Criticism here focused on Democrats who voted with the Republicans against the Bill. Rep. Kucinich became a focal point on this forum (and probably nowhere else) when some of his followers here posted praise for his vote against the Bill. This drew a good deal of ire, and we were off to the races.

"When you say 'speak truth to power', God kills a baby kitten."

[Brickbat]

17. I salute you, sir.

"When you say 'speak truth to power', God kills a baby kitten."

Close up the shop; my day has been made.

[Political Heretic]

22. Imagine my shock, at your post.

:eyes:

[The Magistrate]

28. Prefer To Imagine Whirled Peas, Sir....

A much better use of my time....

[cali]

23. If I never heard the cliched empty phrase "truth to power" again, I'd be thrilled.

[Codeine]

21. Isn't it funny that people who think the phrase "speaking truth to power"

is anything but trite and laughable are invariably Kucinich fans?

[redqueen]

25. LOL... where are all the attacks on Grayson and Frank and Sanders and Feingold?

Please... this shit is tired and oh so very weak.

I do think you should go on and suggest to Skinner, Elad and EarlG that they should change the name of the site to Bourgeois Underground. Please do. And then please do share the response. :)

[Prism]

26. The Let-Them-Eat-Cake liberals

The number of over-privileged statements made to women, minorities, and the poor on this site is staggering. Some people will never understand that politics aren't a hobby or a reality television show with heroes and villains to be watched and commented upon for entertainment and self-validation. For many Americans, politics are a matter of life and death, a matter of survival.

And you can always tell those who have the greatest stake in what our government does. They're usually the ones being told to sit down and shut up for being so damn purist and radical and mean to our dreamy, dreamy politicians.

[Political Heretic]

27. Very well said.

[QC]

30. +10000000000000000

[LatteLibertine]

29. Not sure

how getting nothing done aids the desperate.

If you have an effective plan for undermining corporatism and breaking lobbyist's overwhelming influence on Washington, I'm in.

[ProleNoMore]

31. I Stand With Dennis Kucinich

eom

[blindpig]

32. k&r

for the last paragraph.