As much as I dislike Carrie Prejean and her politics, to be penalized for a private tape is wrong

[Nikki Stone1]

She was 17 and sent the tape to her boyfriend. This should have had NOTHING to do with her lawsuit against Miss USA. It was not a public act. This was no more nor less than blackmail. I also wonder how much the boyfriend got paid for the tape.

For the record: Prejean is political pond scum and deserves to be taken down on her intolerance. But how many women make tapes or pictures for the man they love? Should they ALL be used as blackmail in lawsuits?

[TwilightGardener]

1. I think the contestants in pageants have to sign something that says

they have never appeared on video or in print nekkid. I think it's a result of the Vanessa Williams fiasco. Don't have a link, though. If true, Miss Handy violated her contract with the pageant.

[Raschel]

8. She's such a Palin.

[Nikki Stone1]

34. Palin's worse: she left a job that the people elected her to do. Prejean did not have that kind of

responsibility.

[Raschel]

198. It's not about the responsibility, it's about the family values hypocrisy.

[CTyankee]

200. I despise hypocrisy and I'm always glad when hypocrites are outed.

If the shoe fits, then she has to wear it, IMO...

[OneGrassRoot]

17. ....

Miss Handy!!!

:rofl:

[cmkramer]

226. That might be true of the Miss America pageant.

I don't know if it's true for the Miss USA/Miss Universe pageants.

[dustbunnie]

2. I agree with you totally, but don't understand something about disseminating this tape.

If she was 17 at the time, isn't it against the law for the boyfriend to sell or disseminate this tape? Isn't it then also against the law for Trump's people to use it as a means of blackmail? How does this work?

[Nikki Stone1]

5. I wondered the same thing. This should come under kiddie porn laws.

That may be why TMZ didn't post it.

[GreenPartyVoter]

19. Would it have also been against the law for her to give it to her bf?

[dustbunnie]

43. I'm not sure. But normally the powers that be don't go after underage porn actresses.

They go after the producers, distributers, etc. So that would apply here as well, wouldn't it?

So far, no one's been thrown into juvie jail for sexting either, though they keep threatening to make an example of someone.

[GreenPartyVoter]

60. Seems to me I have heard of cases lately where teen girls snapping and sexting pics with their cell

phones have gotten them tangled up with that law.

[dustbunnie]

87. Oh yes, that's true. But so far it's just a lot of hot air. No one's been punished.

Adults distributing naked vids and pics of underage teens will result in some not particularly amusing jail time though.

[Viking12]

69. Not certain, but it may depend on the age of consent rather than the 18 year threshhold.

[seabeyond]

3. just another neon sign why girls should not be sending "boyfriends" the naked

pictures and stuff....

too many boyfriends lack integrity.

[Nikki Stone1]

9. Oh, come on.

You're in love with a guy and you send him a pic to turn him on. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[JonQ]

18. I think any picture of yourself that you send to another person

should be one that you could live with going on the internet. Or for that matter, even ones you store on your own computer.

Even if you trust that person entirely (and it is well placed trust) computers get hacked, or stolen. As do cellphones.

It's not like there aren't dozens of high profile cases showing exactly what will happen.

[Nikki Stone1]

20. Then we have to get over this shame about it.

Honestly.

[redqueen]

39. Spot on. (nt)

[seabeyond]

68. or we can teach our boys.... oh wait. no since bothering, just who they are? nt

[redqueen]

72. Bingo!

We shouldn't be demonizing girls who explore their sexuality... we should be criticizing the guys who treat it like a party favor to be passed around.

[seabeyond]

74. MY BAD.... i didnt clarify, BF lacks integrity. sorry. edited that post. nt

[Heidi]

77. And perhaps young women should be taught not to trade their sexuality for male favor

if they don't want it to sneak up and bite 'em in the ass. And the same goes for young men.

[redqueen]

81. Trade for favor?

Ever heard of sharing for sharing's sake?

That's how it works for me anyway.

And yes, she learned a valuable lesson... should we keep demonizing her for being such a "moron"?

Oh, and by the way... all the other morons on DU who share those things thank you for your care and concern, I'm sure.

[Nikki Stone1]

85. Thank you. Why do people instantly go to prostitution comparisons?

There is a world of difference between sending something to a b-friend (or girlfriend) and starring in a porn flick. And considering how many people watch porn, they shouldn't go throwing stones at porn stars either.

[redqueen]

90. It flat-out sickens me how many consumers of porn

will waste no time at all in talking about what dirty, stupid whores the women who star in porn are.

Talk about being a hypocrite.

[Nikki Stone1]

95. YES!

THANK YOU!

[redqueen]

124. It can really hurt

to find out people you thought were progressive and fair-minded are really just woman-haters in denial.

But that's life, right?

[Nikki Stone1]

128. I know. I hear you.

What bothers me too is that people are unaware what kind of tightrope women walk. If a woman says or does one thing that someone doesn't like, she immediately becomes a whore, a c---, a bitch, or she's sucking some guy's cock. Remember Condi Rice? I HATED her politics, war mongering, and the fact that she was buying shoes as NOLA drowned. But to hear others degrading her as a woman really enraged me. I remember putting up posts saying to hate her politics but don't degrade her and other women with that crap. Unfortunately, people don't listen.

There are really a lot of unenlightened people who say they are progressives. Perhaps that explains why the Stupak amendment could pass so easily in Congress.

[seabeyond]

99. in our middle school and highschool there is a problem with girls

being pressured, harrased, conjoled to send naked with promise of being liked. it isnt about liking the girl. it is about holding up as a trophy. our girls have to get smarter. our boys have to be shamed with that behavior. nothing admirable in it for either gender.

[redqueen]

102. With girls that young, yes that's a real problem.

But if she made it when she was 17 that's her call IMO. Still young and likely naive, but old enough to make her own decisions about those things.

As for girls that young being pressured, they should out those doing the pressuring to anyone who will listen. Start punishing that crap early, maybe they'll learn.

[Heidi]

100. Go ahead and do that. But don't be surprised to see it turn up on the internet.

Stop acting like a pre-teen who doesn't understand the consequences of naive actions. Last time I saw your photo, you were an adult, long past 17, an age when anyone should know that once highly personal material is transferred to someone else, control of that material is lost forever.

[redqueen]

105. LOL... "stop acting like a pre-teen"? Where did I do that?

Did I pretend there were no consequences? No, I didn't. I'm well aware of the consequences of sharing things with guys who might turn out to be so abusive as to share private things... they're assholes.

Now... go ahead and ask me what I think of "progressive" DUers who insult and demean adults who do as they like with their bodies? Go on, ask me.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redqueen]

119. And how mean!

"stop acting like a pre-teen" "long past 17"

*sigh*

Another amusing thing is all the people so desperate to believe she's lying. We know where that's coming from. I hope they hold people like Bill Clinton to the same standard. I mean, he did lie... many times... so he must be lying every time he opens his mouth, right? That's logic! *rolleyes*

[Heidi]

118. It's unfortunate that you feel insulted.

But that's your perception, not my intent.

[redqueen]

122. LOL... right.

Saying "stop acting like a pre-teen" wasn't meant to be insulting... of course not!

Please, kindly do me the favor of explaining what that barb meant. Where/how did I act like a pre-teen.

You made the dig... back it up.

[Heidi]

129. "We shouldn't be demonizing girls who explore their sexuality... we should be criticizing the guys

who treat it like a party favor to be passed around."

[redqueen]

131. That's what you consider acting like a pre-teen?

Saying we shouldn't demonize these girls, but instead criticize the boys?

Really?

[Heidi]

151. Those were your words, not mine. Not a single word about owning control of one's actions

or reactions from you. Have you not lived in the real world long enough to know that there are people out there who, however cute, trustworthy seeming or forever-and-forever they seem, images last forever? Since we're talking here about young women, why not teach them to be cautious with regard to how they use technology? Why not teach them to enjoy their sexuality in parallel with teaching them that we put those images out there, we've realistically relinquished control of them?

Isn't it possible to "demonize" untrustworthy young men while also criticizing far-too-trusting young women? Must every situation be so binary that we cannot discuss or discern any shade of gray?

[redqueen]

154. I didn't in any way imply they were your words... wtf?

As you pointed out... I'm "long past 17"... so yeah, I've lived in the real world long enough to know there are assholes. Fucking duh.

And I'm all for teaching girls to be cautious... don't know what gave you any other impression.

And yeah... fucking perfect... let's start defending the guys who pass this shit around. Cause guys might have a *good reason* to share private pictures, right? Please, do go on, give us some examples of the shades of gray in this situation.

[Heidi]

Nice. Downplay girls' ability and mandate to protect themselves.

You're not doing young women any favors, redqueen. The reality is that there are shitheels and immature people in this world. Girls need not believe they can treat their sexuality as party favors to entice young men--and please don't pretend girls and women don't do this to gain male favor; that's just as disingenuous as it would be if someone suggested that every teenage boy were a paragon of virtue worthy of unmitigated trust not just today but far into the future --especially where technology can give rise to future problems. One cannot call back misplaced trust.

I never said guys have *good reason* (again, your words, not mine) to share private pictures. But just because YOU say it's private and believe there's a tacit understanding that something's private, doesn't mean it IS private. REAL WORLD vs. WISHFUL-THINKING WORLD. See how that works?

[redqueen]

167. I didn't downplay anything.

You keep saying things that you (should) know I already know.

As for girls doing it to gain male favor... did I say that didn't happen? No. I said there's no reason to assume it's always the case.

You said there's gray area here, and we shouldn't demonize the boys who violate trust. That's what it seemed like you were implying. What did you mean to say?

[Heidi]

173. I said what I meant to say. I implied nothing beyond teaching girls to take care of themselves.

Your perception is yours, and position you defend based upon it are not doing young women any favors.

[redqueen]

175. Due to your refusal to answer questions

and insistence upon typing things we both already discussed, and reading all kinds of nonsense into my posts, I'm going to just end this now.

[Heidi]

176. Good idea, since I've said exactly in this thread what I meant to say

and owe you absolutely nothing, despite your sense of entitlement to validation of your position which does young woman absolutely no favors.

[redqueen]

177. LOL... yes... nobody here has any obligation to answer questions to clarify their statements.

It's just something that's a reasonable expectation when someone seems to be pretending to try to have a serious discussion.

Have a nice day.

[Heidi]

196. If you would stop pretending to want to have a serious discussion,

perhaps there are those among us who would indulge your sense of entitlement to clarification. Otherwise, pffffffffft. No biggie. You have a nice day, too.

[redqueen]

197. Fair enough... I'll just be left to wonder what that "gray area" stuff was about. (nt)

[dustbunnie]

202. I could be wrong, but the poster seemed to imply that responsibility is 50-50.

People do take chances when they send out their pics or pose for porn spreads. Happens to boys and men too. Rob Lowe was black balled for years for his little porn romp. There are many more like him. Teen boys have their short comings posted all over the place for ridicule. There's also a couple of websites out there devoted to posting "hilarious" pics of drunk, passed out teens lying in their own puke, pee and poop. It's co-ed and exceptionally disgusting. There are shit people out there of both genders who enjoy ruining peoples' lives.

[redqueen]

203. You're bringing up all kinds of other stuff to change the subject.

The subject is sexy pictures/video and assholes sharing what is meant to be private.

There is a 50/50 with respect to responsibility, but NO 50/50 when it comes to blame. Only ONE person in the picture is a fucking asshole... and neither deserves sexist slurs.

[dustbunnie]

213. I wasn't trying to change the subject. Sorry if it seemed that way.

To me the porn thing is part of it because people do look down on sexting and sending sexy pics as a subset of porn. And when the story broke about Carrie Prejean, most people just assumed a porn tape had surfaced and the reaction was immediate. You're right. Neither boys nor girls, men or women, deserve sexist slurs for showing skin to a love partner -- but both sexes get screwed over by vengeful others, and finally, it all comes back to societal attitudes toward porn in general.

[seabeyond]

217. interesting.

while i would say there is an incredibly vast difference between porn and sending a picture to a loved on.... the whole acceptance of porn seems to create the fuzzy line you first suggest. creating them as one and the same. they are not.

[seabeyond]

153. of course the girls and their choices are part of the whole. the girl that feels

she needs the validation, or that giving a guy a nude picture is going to mean she is liked needs counseling also. she needs to be taught also. the girl that gives a picture to a bf has to understand that as many times as not, it is really used to humiliate her, or use her as a thing. she needs to learn that all she puts out there may end up on net and effect college, effect future jobs, effect her future life.

of course she needs to be responsible with her decision making.

no?

[redqueen]

157. Yes, that's part of raising girls.

Teaching them not to base their actions on a need for validation.

However, I see this as changing the subject. And I am not surprised really... the thread about the gang rape was mostly discussion of how to avoid making men feel blamed.



Carrie said she made the private tape for a boyfriend. It got out. She's facing the consequences. Should those consequences include "progressives" calling her a moron and a whore?

This is not about preteens, not about middle schoolers. I think some people are LOOKING for a reason to start blaming girls... I wonder why that is.

[seabeyond]

161. i dont like any of what is going on with carrie. keep hiding the threads.

and my focus went to guys handing out video. when i did talk on any of these threads. then .... to the girl, and owning what is happening in her life.

i look at it about in those orders.

the world should leave it alone. the bf should not give out picture. and all that being said, girls today, should think twice and think it thru

probably was more trusting during carrie times. things werent then, what they are today. a couple three years has made all of us more aware.

[redqueen]

164. Well the subject is sex, and she's hot ...

so you know good and well that the world isn't going to leave it alone.

But yeah, women (not girls really cause they shoudln't be doing this!) should think three or four times before engaging in this. NOT because it's shameful... or it makes them somehow 'less than' (cause GOD FORBID they trade the 'virgin' title for the 'slut' one :eyes:)... but because some people are rancid fucking assholes. That's it.

[Nikki Stone1]

134. You have a problem with that statement, Heidi?

A girl is not allowed to explore her sexuality?

[Toasterlad]

171. Um...Guys Take Pictures of Themselves For Their Girlfriends, Too.

Would you like to see? I can give you a dozen websites to go to featuring pictures of naked young men holding their cell phones and cameras up to the mirror; pictures they sent to their girlfriends which were not intended to be seen by anyone else.

This is not a poor, persecuted women issue. This is a if-you're-stupid-enough-to-send-a-naked-photo-of-yourself-to-anybody-you'd-better-be-prepared-for-it-to-end-up-on-the-internet-whether-you're-a-man-or-a-woman issue.

[redqueen]

174. I agree and disagree...

Yeah... I know those sites. :evilgrin:

And you're right that women can be absolute assholes and violate trust as well... but nobody is demonizing those men as stupid whores. You did call them all stupid... but there are no sexist slurs directed at men who do it.

[Toasterlad]

181. I Don't Think Women Who Share Naked Pictures of Themselves For Free Are Whores.

I DO think Carrie Prejean is a whore, because she used her body for money (not the 17 year old ((alledgedly)) tape, the topless pictures). However, I don't have a problem with either a woman OR a man being a whore. It's their body, they should be able to do what they want with it.

What I have a problem with is hypocrisy. And Carrie Prejean is a hypocritical whore of the first order.

And I DO think ANYONE who shares a naked picture of themself that they DON'T want turning up on the internet is an idiot.

[redqueen]

183. LOL... fair enough.

Totally agree about the hypocrisy. :)

[JonQ]

179. So it's ok for women to send out nude photos of themselves

but not ok for men to look at those photos? Huh?

[redqueen]

184. No... you completely misread. (nt)

[JonQ]

188. Then what did you mean?

[redqueen]

190. I meant that if a person sends a sexy picture or video to their partner...

that may be a bad decision, but they are not the assholes deserving of criticism or ridicule, IMO.

IMO it's the partner who decides to pass it around / post it on the net who is the asshole deserving of criticism and ridicule.

[JonQ]

191. I would agree with that

sending the picture is probably a bad idea if she never wanted it to become public (or video). Could be this is a publicity stunt, but at the moment it doesn't look like it.

And the guy is an asshole for disseminating something given in private.

But you should assume, especially at 17, that your relationship is not going to last forever. And exes often do irrational and vengeful things.

[Nikki Stone1]

83. If a b-friend sends me a naked pic of himself, do I need to be "taught" not to carry it

around in my wallet?

[seabeyond]

104. are you going to be respectful of the privacy of the picture. or are you going to gather girls

around and make vile crude comments about the males picture?

it is something that is happening regularly with our boys. one would think the boys didnt need to be "taught" but they have somewhere lost their compass on integrity. so you tell me. do we pretend there isnt an issue. or do we now teach our boys that if a girlfriend gives you a picture, say thank you, treasure it and maintain her privacy?

[JonQ]

204. I would say both need to be taught to act better

don't send naked pictures = no naked pictures to share.
don't share naked pictures you are sent = no naked pictures are shared.

Knowing people both boys and girls are likely to make that mistake, so going after both offers the best shot of reducing these incidents.

For example, teaching on gender about safe sex is probably going to be less effective than teaching both.

[seabeyond]

208. agreed. nt

[JonQ]

180. Or not even that far . . .

people who are ok with it can send them out, no issue. People who are not ok with the world seeing them naked should not send them out. Simple.

Kind of like nude beaches. If you're cool with it, go for it. If you aren't then stay home.

[seabeyond]

64. there is not a single thing wrong with that. the wrong is all the guys that

hol it up as trophy. share with friends, locker room buddies and classmates.... or tmz or lawyers

it is the guy, that is in the wrong. it is the female that is hurt

lesson learned

[redqueen]

41. I don't think it has anything to do with integrity.

Some people are exhibitionists, some are not.

Neither deserve criticism or praise for either character trait IMO.

[Nikki Stone1]

44. No and thanks for getting it.

If a b-friend sends me a beefcake photo for my own enjoyment, I'm not going to think any less of him. Quite the contrary in fact......
....

Uh, where was I?
:evilgrin:

[seabeyond]

76. i jsut reread post. BOYFRIEND lacks integrity not girls sending picture

an obvious to me. i guess not so much from my post. edited

[redqueen]

84. LOL that's ok... I should have known you wouldn't be implying such a thing!

But being on DU... well... you know. :)

[seabeyond]

106. lol, wink. nt

[Nikki Stone1]

89. Oh, OK. Thanks. That makes more sense.

:)

[seabeyond]

109. thumbs up. nt

[seabeyond]

71. it is the risk and knowledge that it is a cool thing to hold as trophy and dont expect

it to stay private.

it isnt about the girl wanting to graciously give gift to boyfriend. the lack of integrity is all the boys that cant appreciate and keep to self....

[redqueen]

94. Yep... but I would only demonize the person at fault,

not call the woman who simply wanted to experience some sexy fun a "whore" or a "prostitute" or a "moron".

[Xenotime]

4. If she is pond scum, then who cares if they use private tapes to take her down?

:shrug:

[Nikki Stone1]

6. Because people who are NOT pond scum can be taken down the same way.

I don't believe in blacmail on principle.

[Zoeisright]

7. Nope, she's judging others based just on who they are.

So she deserves to be called on her hypocrisy. She's just like all those other Talibornagains - judging and condemning others for 'immorality' while meanwhile being as immoral as possible.

[Nikki Stone1]

11. It's not hypocrisy. Now, if it had a been a sex tape with another girl, I could have seen that

THAT would have been hypocrisy.

[snake in the grass]

25. Only if she tried to marry her afterward....

}(

[Nikki Stone1]

29. Ouch! I have to give you points for that one.

:)

[Beaverhausen]

32. she goes after the porn industry (soft and hardcore) in her new book

yet doesn't seem to have a problem making a little of her own. That's fine and dandy with you?

[Nikki Stone1]

36. Oh come on! There is a difference between a private tape for a b-friend and fucking strangers on

tape for money. Just like there's a difference between having sex with a man you love and turning tricks on a street corner.

I am very much against the porn industry, which abuses and exploits women, but if I choose to send a b-friend a naked photo, that's my own business.

[Beaverhausen]

52. and how do we know she did it for her boyfriend? Don't those other pics of her give you pause?

She seemed to have no problem showing off her body. So far we only have her side of the story as to how this tape came into existence.

Sorry, but she is a lying piece of judgemental, fundie shit and I won't defend her for one second.

[Nikki Stone1]

58. She wasn't blackmailed with the photos: it was the tape that did her in.

And shame on the Miss USA pageant for blackmailing her with a private tape.

[joeybee12]

67. She wasn't blackmailed...shame on you for not understanding this...n/t

[Nikki Stone1]

80. She was blackmailed. The pageant basically said, "If you sue us, we release this private tape

that we shouldn't even have but we were lucky enough to get our hands on."

Blackmail.

And the person who should be ashamed is you for being so intolerant of female sexuality.

[uncle ray]

126. she is in breach of contract.

the pageant rules clearly state no nude photos or video. she broke that rule, they were very lenient in their treatment of her in light of this. when she pushed too hard she forced their hand. everybody that knew about the tape refused to go public with it, it only happened because she insisted on suing the pageant. do you have a source where they claim they will actually release the tape?

[Nikki Stone1]

132. That doesn't change the fact that they blackmailed her with a private tape.

Get her on her public actions. If you want her to step down because she is intolerant, then do that. I didn't want her representing California. But don't use private acts to blackmail people and spread the news to the media.

[Bluenorthwest]

143. How is a tape in the hands of my adversaries 'private'?

If I make a tape and give it to someone, it belongs to that person. It is no longer private at all. Is the boyfriend a good guy? Nope. But that is why people in her position are contractually obligated not to hand out any form of tape to anyone, for any reason.
And to be very blunt, any one with intentions on the public life who hands out vids of themselves doing anything that might not be fun on You Tube is an idiot. Just an idiot. And idiots often do things like sign contracts without reading them or honoring them.

[Nikki Stone1]

155. It was not made for the adversaries. It was made for a boyfriend in a relationship.

The boyfriend should have honored the privacy.

An idiot to make a tape for someone you love? Really?

[Zoeisright]

46. Yes, it is.

She's judging people - so she opens herself up to scrutiny.

[Nikki Stone1]

66. You are judging people right now. So it's ok if I get a sex tape of you to sell it to TMZ?

Really?

We all judge people. Carrie Prejean judged people on being gay, not on sending sex tapes to their boyfriends. Try to keep up.

If she had been found in a sex tape with another woman THEN you could be ticked off for her judging others for the same thing.

[Toasterlad]

166. It IS Hypocrisy, Because She's Making a MORAL JUDGEMENT Of Gay People.

Based on her fucked up christian values. Which she herself does not live by.

Get it?

[atreides1]

10. I respectfully disagree

This has to do with her failing in her contractual agreements, and her hypocrisy, not her politics!

As for this being "blackmail", if her attorneys or the judge believed that, then why did they not file criminal charges?

She could have let this go, and remained a star for the anti-gay bigots, but she didn't. She wanted money, so her motivation was pretty much greed, and her "politics" played very little in this lawsuit.

[Nikki Stone1]

13. She had the right to sue. But this tape was a private tape and should never have been used

The boyfriend was the greedy one. He clearly sold it to TMZ for some money.

[uncle ray]

130. what does TMZ have to do with the paegent?

what does the boyfriend have to do with the pageant? why are you trying to blame everybody but her for her actions?

[Nikki Stone1]

138. The b-friend was the source of the tape. TMZ had the tape but didn't post it.

I do blame the boyfriend. This was a private tape for his own use. To use it to make money was scummy on his part.

[Unvanguard]

12. You're right, it's a travesty of justice, but I find it really hard to care. n/t

[Bonobo]

14. She's not being penalized.

She wants a career in the public limelight, right?

So she wants US to pay for her life, essentially, through our voyeuristic impulses. She won't be creating anything to justify that paycheck OTHER than entertainment.

So it is fair game, then, for her entire life to be up their for entertainment fodder. It is, in fact, what she is asking for.

[Nikki Stone1]

38. She was penalized by the Miss USA pageant and by the b-friend that sold the tape to TMZ

I do believe, however, that she will be very successful. Guys don't care what she has to say, they just care that her fake boobs look great.

[nxylas]

49. So no-one in the entertainment industry has any right to privacy?

That's what your argument seems to be saying. That if, say, Will Smith (to take a random example of a celebrity) goes to take a dump, anyone has the right to film it and post it on the Internet?

[Bonobo]

65. Will Smith is an actor, though.

He is paid for his skill at portraying other characters. It is a job with a description. I don't know if that's a good argument. I'm just trying to hang in there. You may be right.

[Nikki Stone1]

107. Will Smith is a celebrity which is why a picture of him taking a dump would get $$$

An actor who is not a big celebrity, like Eve Brenner, who does bit parts in TV series, is paid for her acting but is not a celebrity.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0107470/

Prejean, who is not an actress, IS a celebrity. It's the celebrity part that makes her vulnerable to this crap.

[Nikki Stone1]

96. Exactly.

Thank you nxylas.

[JonQ]

15. Just think, if she had come out strongly for gay marriage

rather than taking our presidents stance on the subject then we would all be bemoaning the evil, rightwing fundies for trying to smear her with this.

Her private life is none of your business you damn puritans! Stay out of her bedroom you pervert!

Good thing it's the other way around though.

[Nikki Stone1]

31. That's absolutely correct. Thank you.

:patriot:

[JonQ]

35. There does seem to be a streak

of puritanism on here whenever things are reversed.

Rather hypocritical if you ask me.

[Nikki Stone1]

42. Yeah, I know. Slapping people around for private sexual behavior happens on both sides

I am so much against that I can't even begin to tell you.

[Egnever]

73. No its not

one need only look at the backlash Deniss has seen here for his vote to realize it is false.

[PVnRT]

51. Man's got a point there....

[Egnever]

63. please try to speak for yourself

a hypocryte is a hypocryte doesnt matter who they are supporting.

[Nikki Stone1]

110. In what way is she a hypocrite?

Really.

[JonQ]

178. How is she a hypocrite?

Did she come out against nudity, or sex tapes, or even against allowing people to do as they please in the privacy of their own homes?

No, she was against legally recognized marriage. Which, although I disagree with her, is not the same thing as regulating what adults may do in their own homes (or 17 year olds in some states). Legally recognizing a contract = ! preventing non-contractual actions.

[Egnever]

201. Fair enough

Doesnt mean I would be supporting her if she was supporting some different cause that I agreed with. I dont think Miss USA should have sex tapes floating arround. I think it sends the wrong message to the young girls that look up to them. No matter what other cause they support.

[JonQ]

207. Agreed

and on top of that she had a contractual obligation (as I understand it, not an expert) to not do exactly this sort of thing.

So I think it would be fair to call her out on breaking her contract. I just don't like the way people are calling her a slut and so on for something they would tolerate from someone who hadn't made such a political stand. You can't selectively enforce morality.

[uncle ray]

144. it's none of OUR business, but it IS the pageant's business.

she signed a contract with them stating she was in no nude photos or videos. she lied. she had no "right" to enter their pageant. the fact that this is a sex tape is not an issue, at issue is the fact that she knowingly violated terms of a legal agreement and is now being held responsible for her choice to lie in a legal document.

[JonQ]

182. Agreed, if she signed a contract she should be held to that

but the criticisms on here aren't: she violated a contract, that liar!

It's more like: whore, slut, bimbo, hypocrite, prostitute, and so on.

[Toasterlad]

If She Was Not Making Moral Judgments Of People, She Wouldn't Be a Hypocrite

And therefore, she would deserve support.

Carrie Prejean deserves every bit of vileness she gets.

[JonQ]

185. So if you ever make a moral judgement on anyone

you are then a hypocrite if someone else has a problem with you violating an unrelated bit of morality?

So if you are against smoking, but don't go to church then you are a hypocrite because in the eyes of some both are wrong?

Notice she was never against sex, or sex tapes, or nudity. She was against state sanction gay marriage. She never said homosexuals could not have sex with one another, or send nude pics to each other, etc. These are separate issues.

[Toasterlad]

194. How Is It Unrelated?

She was against same-sex marriage BECAUSE OF HER RELIGION. That same religion frowns on doing all the naked photo taking that she wallowed in. They are NOT separate issues.

If you declare that you live your life by a standard, AND CRITICIZE OTHERS WHO DON'T LIVE BY THAT STANDARD, and then are proven to have NOT lived by that standard, you're a fucking hypocrite.

How sad you can't see that.

[JonQ]

195. So gay marriage = private nude pictures

Which would mean that sending private nude pictures ought to be a guaranteed and protected right, which means she should not be penalized for doing so.

See how silly your argument is?

[Toasterlad]

199. I'll Try One More Time.

Carrie Prejean claims to be against same-sex marriage BECAUSE HER RELIGION SAYS IT'S WRONG.

Carrie Prejean's RELIGION SAYS IT'S WRONG to let people take naked photos and videos of you.

Carrie Prejean let people take naked photos and videos of her.

Carrie Prejean is a hypocrite.

See how stupid your refusal to understand that is?

[JonQ]

205. Exactly, she's against same sex marriage

she made no moral statement on anything else. You are extrapolating.

[Toasterlad]

209. You're an Idiot.

[JonQ]

210. You have a well reasoned and poignant response

We're going for opposites right?

[Toasterlad]

211. My Response Was Completely Reasoned.

I explained to you very simply - twice - why Carrie Prejean is a hypocrite, and you still don't understand. Ergo, you're an idiot.

[JonQ]

212. How openminded of you

you told me, I disagree, I must be an idiot.

I think Rush and oreilly have that same opinion. They will tell you what to think you can either agree and be right, or disagree and be a moron.

You are in good company.

[Toasterlad]

220. There's a Difference Between Opinion and Fact.

Perhaps you should look up the word "hypocrite" in a dictionary*. It might help you better understand the topic under discussion.

*a dictionary is a book filled with the definitions of words.

[JonQ]

228. Indeed there is a difference

which is why I take offense to you positing your opinion as a fact. You feel she should believe certain things (despite a lack of evidence) and your feelings them must be fact.

[Toasterlad]

229. Oh...You're One of Those People Who Think You Get to Pick and Choose Which Bible Verses Are True.

Clearly you, like Carrie Prejean, believe it's not against your religious beliefs to hate gay people, even though your boss told you to love everyone as yourself. I find that most hypocrites don't know that they're hypocrites. You and Prejean are birds of a feather.

Why don't the two of you go off and make a homo-bashing sex tape? The best of both worlds.

[JonQ]

230. Yep, you are just like rush and oreilly

when you are corned and forced to either A) accept that you were wrong or B) lash out rudely at others you immediately go with B).

Your comments show that you are a very ignorant and intolerant person.

[Toasterlad]

231. Really? I'd Say That My Comments Show That I Know What Hypocrisy Is And You Don't.

I may be ignorant and intolerant, but I'm not as intolerant as Carrie Prejean, and I'm not as ignorant as you.

CheckMATE.

[JonQ]

232. Wow, you really are the kind of person who would use "checkmate"

in a debate, online, where the facts are against you. And not ironically.

Can I safely assume then that you are a teenager?

[Toasterlad]

236. Actually, I Was Quoting the Simpsons, But Yes, I Do Consider This Discussion Over. And Won. By Me.

As any rational person can conclude from reading our exchange, you didn't score a single point, and have only proved that you're willing to stick up for bigotry and hypocrisy whenever they rear their ugly heads. How nice for you.

Being the chivalrous guy I am, I'm allowing you the last word. Perhaps you'll be able to pull some miraculous bit of wisdom out of your ass to justify your anti-gay, pro-hypocrisy belief system, but I doubt it. Shalom.

Sorry, just one last thing before you finish up...you might want to read all the OTHER posts in this thread calling the vapid whore a hypocrite, seeing as how you've apparently convinced yourself that I'm standing all alone in some mythic world where the unicorns roam and topless christian whores aren't hypocrites for espousing anti-gay sentiments. It might help you come to terms with reality.

Okay, really done, I swear.

[JonQ]

238. Despite all my efforts to give you a fair shake

and not go with my initial impression, it seems you are a moron. I'm sorry, but nothing you've said can be substantiated.

Oh well, since you're a simpsons fan I'll leave you with the image I and anyone else reading this exchange has likely associated with you:

[Toasterlad]

169. If She Was Not Making Moral Judgments Of People, She Wouldn't Be a Hypocrite

And therefore, she would deserve support.

Carrie Prejean deserves every bit of vileness she gets.

[JonQ]

187. I heard you the first time

;-)

[tammywammy]

16. She violated the contract that she willingly signed

Remember back when her topless photos showed up and there was a lot of discussion of if she was going to get the boot, and Donald Trump said that she was okay. A sex video would definitely violate that clause, hence why she would have dropped her lawsuit.

Sure it was a private tape, but she's a moron if she didn't think it would come out. That's why you don't sign contracts where you KNOW you've violated part of it already in the past. It would have been totally private if she had kept the tape herself, but once you hand that over to someone you never know who will see it.

And she says she was 17, I don't necessarily believe her. It's a convenient excuse/threat against those that might be willing to release it (not that I want to see it anyways).

[Nikki Stone1]

22. A moron? Really? So every woman who sends a b-friend a racy photo or video

should be blackmailed for it years down the line? Really?

[tammywammy]

40. Yes, a moron

Once you give those kinds of pictures out you NEVER know when they'll pop up again. So yes, once she started a lawsuit against the pageant it should have definitely been in her mind "hey wait, remember that tape I made a few years ago, that clearly violated that contract I signed...."

And I didn't say people should be blackmailed forever, but don't be freaking naive. She should have read up on Vanessa Williams.

There's nothing wrong with sending naked photos, but you don't sign a damn contract with a clause that says you have never done it.

[Nikki Stone1]

50. Oh, please. She had a boyfriend. Yeah she trusted him. He ended up scummily selling the tape for

money. That's not on her, that's on him.

The only moronic thing in my book is the insanity of expecting pageant contestants to have a squeaky clean image while they are parading around fake boobs in bikinis--boobs provided by the pageant itself!-- for a chance at a tiara given by a bunch of horny old men.

[joeybee12]

54. Did she name the boyfriend? Why the phuck are believing anything she says?

Jesus H Christ.

[Nikki Stone1]

61. Why should she name the boyfriend? I wouldn't if I were in that situation.

Especially if the scum had sold the tape to TMZ. I wouldn't want him to get anything more out of a private tape than he already did.

[joeybee12]

70. Honestly, you don't realize how ridiculous you're being..she's lying, she has lied

throughout this and you're defeninding her?

[Nikki Stone1]

91. How do you know she is lying?

Really?

[comtec]

227. Why the assumption it was a BOYfriend?

Is that actually in the articles anywhere?

[mitchum]

215. Well, she has ALREADY lied about the earlier "risque" photos...

when she claimed that they were taken when she was under aged (in her hopes that would lead to the photos being suppressed) And they were not.
So, she is a proven liar.
"What is the nature of a thing?"

[tammywammy]

56. Then that's between her and the pageant

She didn't have sign up for it. She didn't have to sign the contract.

Hey, it's not to say I haven't sent out racy photos before, but again I'm not signing a purity clause with my work either.

[Nikki Stone1]

78. I'll bet lots of the other girls in the pageant have sent racy photos to boyfriends.

Think about it.

You've got very pretty girls with great bodies who are accustomed to showing off those bodies to large audiences. You have to be somewhat of an exhibitionist to walk in front of an audience in a bikini and heels. It's the same impulse as the exotic dancer, except, for some reason, the pageant is respectable and the exotic dancing isn't.

With this kind of profile, it would stand to reason that pageant girls would be MORE likely to send their b-friends photos and tapes than most other girls.

The pageant officials must know this.

[nolabear]

21. I agree. But I feel the schadenfreud as well. And frankly, she's using it to sell books.

[Nikki Stone1]

24. Well, since Vanessa Williams is one of the few Miss America names I remember

I imagine Carrie Prejean will be successful. That still doesn't make it right to penalize a woman for a private act that was to be between her boyfriend and herself.

[joeybee12]

23. Did she send the tape to her boyfriend? Do you know that for a fact?

She posed for the photos to make money...did she do the same for the video? Probably in her contract about such stuff...she violated her contract...she said she was fired for her beliefs...the pageant said she was fired because she violated her contract...she just happeend to violate it in an unseemly way that is getting so much attention.

[Nikki Stone1]

27. That is what she told Good Morning America, and if it's not the truth, we'll hear about it.

You are the one making wrong assumptions.

And "unseemly"? REALLY?

Don't tell me you don't look at naked pics from time to time....

Hypocrite.

[joeybee12]

45. I'm sorry, she's lied about everything so far...and I'm making the wrong assumption?

Geesh!

[Nikki Stone1]

57. What did she lie about? Seriously?

She is against same sex marriage. She believes in her god. She's a sexy woman who parades around in a bikini. These may seem non-sequiturs to us but they are not lies. She is exactly what she claims to be, as mixed up as it is.

[redqueen]

59. How dare she be mxed up!

Because she's failed in sorting out all the conflicting messages women get regarding their sexuality, she is to be demonized!

So sayeth the progressive left... because she said that bad thing about gay people. So there! It's totally fair and progressive!

[AllentownJake]

75. The woman is a proven liar

She's trying to make a living as the barbie doll for the Christian right. Forgive me when I don't shed a tear when this woman falls. If she wasn't out parading her belief in the angry desert sky God who hates sex so much, I'd be more sympathetic.

[redqueen]

86. I'm not shedding a tear for her falling... I'm being disgusted

by all those so eager to jump up and demonize her for making a tape for her boyfriend.

[AllentownJake]

92. I could give a fuck about that

However, I do enjoy watching this twit fall when she runs around preaching old testament preachings and claiming that she's doing God's work.

I didn't think what Haggard was doing was wrong with sleeping with men, I did think it was wrong that he would put on a collar on Sunday and damn people doing what he did to hell, I enjoyed watching that asshole fall too.

If she's making sex tapes...her adoring followers should know.

[redqueen]

98. I'm not surprised.

It's a woman's issue and not many men bother thinking much about it at all, let alone care.

[AllentownJake]

101. Yes a Right Wing twit

walking around as a statue of Christian morality objecting to gay couples of both men and women is a Woman's issue.

:rofl:

[redqueen]

111. Again... since you failed to grasp it the first time...

the issue is demonizing women who do as they like with their bodies.

Do try to catch up. Or you can go on sidestepping the point... for whatever reason.

[AllentownJake]

120. No the issue is a fucking hypocrite

Here is the deal, this woman is making the circuit of people who are not "woman" friendly. If you think this twit is some sort of feminist cause to jump on the band wagon to, fine.

When she's at your neighborhood school preaching abstinence only education I'll be the one laughing at you.

She's a con-artist trying to make a living off of Religous nut jobs. If you can't see that, than I'm sorry for you.

[redqueen]

121. LOL... yes, you're sorry for me.

Right. I bet you think I believe that, too, right?

Anyone who can read this OP and decide that the issue being discussed is anything but the demonization of her decision to make a sex tape for her boyfriend must have some need to ignore it.

[Nikki Stone1]

168. OK, try this one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6981545

[rug]

218. The irony is palpable.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=210x31853

[redqueen]

219. The second OP made it even more clear that the subject isn't

Prejean / her hypocrisy.

Please explain the irony you perceive...

[Bluebear]

223. :)

[redqueen]

234. Perhaps you would care to explain it?

Please?

[Nikki Stone1]

115. What did she lie about, Jake?

I've been trying to get that answer all through the thread. What actual lies did she tell?

[AllentownJake]

127. I'll give you an easy one

The topless photos, she lied about their existence, than she lied that she knew that there would be nudity. The photogrpaher came forward and said that she saw every pic before it was finalized.

Than to the pagent officials, she signed an agreement to remain on and than didn't show up for any appearences giving lame excuses only to show up on Hannity or other right wing shows at the same time.

This woman has done everything she possibly could to make herself into some sort of Right Wing Christian Martyr.

[Nikki Stone1]

140. Ok. She lied about topless photos. Thanks for providing the first evidence on this thread.

I appreciate that.

That makes it more likely that she would lie about the tape. However, I am still against what the pageant did.

[AllentownJake]

136. Shannon Moekler resigned over this twit

and it wasn't about the comments she made at the Miss America pageant. It was the fact she constantly was lying or shirking her duties and Donald Trump was looking at it from a business angle and not an ethical one.

Look it up.

BTW Shannon is an incredible activist. Do you think she would give up her position if she wasn't seriously disturbed by her?

[Nikki Stone1]

141. Do you have a link for that?

Thanks.

[AllentownJake]

147. over in the other thread

:-)

[Nikki Stone1]

93. Thank you redqueen.

Thank you so much for getting it.

You know how the Miss America pageant started, right? It was in the 1920s on the Atlantic City beach. It was essentially a "beach bunny" contest of girls in bathing suits judged by the guys. (The twenties was the first decade when women started baring a lot on the beach.) Later, all the other stuff was added (like talent competition) to make it more "legitimate."

[tabasco]

237. What did Carrie Prelean lie about? Really?

She didn't just tell a lie. She SIGNED A CONTRACT which is a promise and an oath to another party.

She SWORE there were no embarrasing photos or videos of herself, a statement she knew was false when she signed the contract.

I'm really unclear how you could miss that in your rush to defend the stinking hypocrite.

[joeybee12]

47. And get a grip...do you think if she lied about her age or something like that

the media would actually care? She posed almost naked, she masturbated for a camera...yeah, the media's gonna ignore that.

[Nikki Stone1]

125. You have yet to give me any evidence that she lied, joeybee12.

Give me the evidence and I'll back down.

[Contrary1]

26. Nope, Prejean lied. She was in violation of contest rules the moment she signed up for it...

"...The contact also contains a clause asking participants to say whether they have conducted themselves "in accordance with the highest ethical and moral standards." As an example, it asks if they have ever been photographed nude or partially nude."

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/30586742/ns/today-today_fashion_and_beauty/

[AllentownJake]

28. For some reason I think the tape was after she was 17

and the 17 talking point is preventing it from going on the internet.

[Nikki Stone1]

53. Why do you think that?

And she has a right to try to prevent a private tape from going on the net, I think.

[AllentownJake]

62. She has made herself a public figure on the stance of interfering with other's sex lives

Forgive me if I'm unsympathetic to her recent plight. She is making a stance that other's are engaged in deviant behavior when there is a tape of her engaged in behavior that her born again idiot followers would consider deviant.

It's just a hunch. The easiest way from preventing the tape from going out is to make the claim it is child porn and this woman has been prone to lie about her past whenever it suits her interest in the past.

[Nikki Stone1]

123. Technically, it wasn't about other people's sex lives but about other people's marriages

And I think she was pond scum for that intolerance. You know how pro gay and pro gay marriage I am. That part made me FURIOUS.

And, if she had been found in a tape with another woman having sex, I would have agreed that she was a liar and a hypocrite. No question.

But I do not believe that a private sexual act or sex tape should be used to prevent her from suing the pageant. The pageant itself is the real bastion of hypocrisy. Here is a contest that requires young women to walk around in bikinis and heels (even buying them boob jobs to look better, like they did with Prejean), and then is amazed to find out that these young women might possibly have an exhibitionist streak in their private lives. If they want non-exhibitionists who are really good examples for young women, they should be checking out the science clubs.

For the pageant, which requires young women to be objects of lust to millions of men to win a tiara, to get all bent out of shape because the young woman has lusts of her own and acts on them privately is the biggest hypocrisy in this whole mess.

[AllentownJake]

139. It was more about her not showing up for appearences

and than appearing at Right Wing events. Google it.

Think Sarah Palin, she was cashing in on her fame at the expense of her previous duties.

The moral clause was the easiest way to make her settle for nothing legally and discredit her at the same time.

[Nikki Stone1]

142. But that's not what you said. I responded to what you posted.

This is something else.

[AllentownJake]

146. It is a Soap Opera

and you are making me link to entertainment rags

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/05/shanna-moakler-carrie-prejeans-lies-caused-her-quit

http://www.hollyscoop.com/carrie-prejean/miss-california-carrie-prejean-fired_20509.aspx

[Nikki Stone1]

159. Poor baby. Not the entertainment rags!

:D

[AllentownJake]

149. Here is another one

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Beauty-Pageants-Ask-Miss-California-Carrie-Prejean-to-Step-Down-111197.shtml

She failed to show up for work and the pageant did everything they could to work with her....it is really that simple. The sex tape was just the leverage the lawyers used to get her to go away and avoid a costly legal battle.

[Nikki Stone1]

160. I can see I don't read enough junk media.

She is a piece of work, isn't she.

[AllentownJake]

162. Sarah Palin in her 20s

Honestly this woman has become a darling of the right wing and is making boat loads of cash to the idiot Xtians who think that sex is a bad thing, when the entire reason she is a public figure is because of sex.

The evangelicals are idiots and latch onto anyone who may support their position despite how hypocritical and ridiculous they are. Somedays I wish their idiotic rapture theory was correct because they'd all be standing around looking at each other questioning why they didn't get raptured.

[Nikki Stone1]

170. OK, but try this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6981545

[mitchum]

216. Because that is the same ruse that bimbo used in trying to suppress...

the earlier "risque" photos
"But I was under aged!!!!"

[redqueen]

30. Thank you!

K&R

[EOTE]

33. She SAYS she was 17 at the time, but I highly doubt that.

She's saying that in order to prevent it from being disseminated. She said the same thing about some of her photos as well and I think it's been proven she was bullshitting about those. This is a desperate little hypocrite who will do or say anything to get her way. This is just more of the same from tired trash.

[cbdo2007]

88. Yes this is common of celebs nowadays...whenever sexy pics/videos come out

all they have to do is say they were 17 and it becomes illegal for anyone to own/view them.

I think they'll prove otherwise and according to some reports about the video the boyfriend was holding the camera and filming.

[EOTE]

103. Yeah, just like that Jessica Tandy video that came out a while ago.

It may have been b&w and shot on 8mm, but I'm fairly sure she was of legal age. That flapper outfit she started off in was damn hot.

[Warpy]

37. When that person is parading him or herself as a paragon of virtue

you bet that kind of stuff should be used to prove that they are not.

She's been throwing too many stones at the rest of us not to be exposed as a fraud and hypocrite.

In any case, maybe it will cause other sweet young things to think twice about producing such tapes for their boyfriends (or girlfriends). Anything that's out there has the potential of ending up in the tabloids or on the net.

[Zoeisright]

48. +1

Right on.

[redqueen]

55. "used to prove that they are not" is MILES from calling them a moron, a whore, etc.

It's disheartening to see most of the replies to this thread... but I'm not at all surprised.

Calling her a moron for saying that shit about "opposite marriage" = reasonable.

Calling her a moron for exploring her sexuality in a way that is MUCH more common than people here think = bullshit. (Hopefully people are just pretending, anyway... )

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

79. Well...

She always has her career on Stickam to fall back upon. :headbang: :rofl:

[cherish44]

82. It was legitimate evidence presented by the defense

Like many have said I'm sure she signed something saying that she never posed for nude photos or made a sex tape etc before she was Miss California. She was saying they fired for for her religious convictions, the defense lawyers have evidence which shows breech of contract and misrepresenting herself to the pageant were the reasons she was fired. The stupid twit brought this on herself by suing for millions of dollars (over ridiculous religious discrimination claims which were such BULLSHIT anyway). Sorry but you bring forth such a lawsuit, any dirt they can dig up on you can and will be used. She settled the lawsuit because she would have lost and gotten nothing. The Miss California pagaent was more than generous even offering her the settlement she got. They would have nuked her in court if they had wanted to.

[Angry Dragon]

97. Hi Ms Nikki

I have read your post, read all the responses, have read other threads on other websites, and have used my power of reason and have come to some conclusions.

She said what she said at the pageant, she has had breast enhancement, her breasts have been photographed, she has made a tape of herself doing a private activity. She has gone out and told others how they should live. It is the last fact that causes her the most trouble.

I have no problem whatsoever with the first ones, it is the last one that makes her a hypocrite. It is the same problem that churches have, telling people how to live and then find themselves not living their beliefs. If one is going to promote themselves as knowing the true way then they have an obligation to state that they have sinned and showing that they are working hard to avoid that sin again.

She has not done that, she has gone on parading her body, she has used her body to gain and then condemned others for doing the same thing. She dropped the suit. If she was really 17 when the tape was done then it was up to her to look inside herself and decide if this tape really had any bearing on the suit. I guess in her mind she determined that it did make a difference.

There is a problem with people making sex tapes. The problem is not making it but in once giving it to someone you may change your mind later.

[Nikki Stone1]

156. I'll tell you what I think re: hypocrisy.

First, young girls are given all kinds of contradicting messages about sexuality. You should not be having sex as a teen, but if you are a virgin that's even worse, oral sex is not really sex, you should look fashionably sexy but a school can expel you if you do, it's ok to send a boy you love a naked pic but then it's your fault if he is scummy enough to use that against you...etc..etc.

Add to this, fundamentalist Christianity where god forgives you even if you proposition a same sex hooker and use crystal meth (provided you're a guy), but if you're a girl you must be a virgin til marriage and wear a promise ring and have some creepy dance ceremony with your dad, but you also have to be popular and have men around so no one thinks you're a lesbian, etc,,etc, You also must believe everything your church tells you--evolution is wrong, homosexuality is a sin, wtc.

I can totally understand how a girl raised with all this gets confused and gives out all kinds of mixed messages herself. I can understand how a girl would end up having sex with a boyfriend, make a sex tape for him, and still feel that she is ok with her religion because she hates the same people they do.

And she's not the only one. A guy I know at church in his 70s is all for men having young women around for sex or marriage, taking Viagra because it's the only way he can do anything, and he believes that guys will be guys and have a sex instinct for a lot of women. (He is currently dating a woman in her early 40s) But, as a Catholic, he believes that gay marriage is wrong, that homosexuality is a choice (and not inborn) and doesn't believe in having his tax dollars go for any abortions, even if the woman is raped. However, one of his own daughters had an abortion in her youth and never told him. Yeah, he's mixed up in the extreme. Carrie Prejean is just a female version of him.

I have more tolerance for Prejean being mixed up because as a girl, she gets a worse set of messages. I also do not consider her a hypocrite for making a private sex tape for her boyfriend. Now, if she had been found in a tape with another woman having sex, I would have agreed that she was a liar and a hypocrite. No question.


Second, I do not believe that a private sexual act or sex tape should be used to prevent her from suing the pageant. The pageant itself is the real bastion of hypocrisy. Here is a contest that requires young women to walk around in bikinis and heels (even buying them boob jobs to look better, like they did with Prejean), and then is amazed to find out that these young women might possibly have an exhibitionist streak in their private lives. If they want non-exhibitionists who are really good examples for young women, they should be checking out the science clubs.

For the pageant, which requires young women to be objects of lust to millions of men to win a tiara, to get all bent out of shape because the young woman has lusts of her own and acts on them privately is the biggest hypocrisy in this whole mess.

[Angry Dragon]

192. I just have a problem with

In your reply I agree with most of it. I do not care if a woman wants to be a beauty queen and she has slept with 200 men. I do not care if she has lust in her heart.

My problem lies in them telling me how to live and they do not live that way. Churches and "Christians" have a habit of not living their the way they tell others to live. She made some poor choices when she was younger, so what?? She is still selling her body and telling others not to. This is the hypocrisy.

As far as the pageant and suit are concerned I think you will find more women than men watch. She was not forced to dump the suit, no blackmail was involved. Her choice in the matter. Perhaps she looked into her soul and decided that she was not living the life she preached, do not know.

Just do not tell me how to live my life when you can not live that life. That is all I ask.

[cbdo2007]

108. I think she is lying about the tape - RE: being alone, sending it to boyfriend

TMZ reported that the camera angle "pans" up from her private area to her face during the video. I highly doubt she's smart enough technologically to figure out how to do this on her own.

Also, I read on one of the news stories, which I can't seem to find now that the boyfriend is actually the one who filmed it. If that's the case, why even make it up and say you were alone?

This is all going to come crashing down around her. She is nothing but LIES LIES LIES.

[redqueen]

114. Yes, it's very obvious from your posts that you're heavily invested in assuming she's lying.

Her boyfriend probably recorded the tape.

But soothe your conscience however you must. You're the one who has to deal with the cognitive dissonance.

[Ganja Ninja]

112. Don't take anything this woman says at face value.

She's a phony. Haven't we learned that much already.

[TransitJohn]

116. I'd have to see the tape to pass judgment.

:evilgrin:

[usregimechange]

117. I agree - it is difficult to turn the other cheek for someone slapping others around but that is...

when doing so is more important.

[LanternWaste]

133. I'm pretty happy that I grew up a teen in the early eighties

I'm pretty happy that I grew up a teen in the early eighties rather than in the here and now. Seems like in the here and now, so many private, consensual acts gets made public-- regarldess of the wishes of those involved.

I can only imagine that were the same technology available in 1983, we could find youtubes of me drag racing down Randoll Mill Road in an old, beat up Duster, or sharing hits off a joint in the school parking lunch during lunch hour, or getting wasted on cheap beer at the local Putt-Putt course on a Friday night, or any one of a thousand other things that I'm sure so many people (even here) would use to define my youth and my person en toto, and hence label me as a hypocrite-- as not every single decision I'd made was a good one, despite my attempts to be a pretty good guy overall.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

135. we are all impacted by the bigotry of others. you send bigotry out in the world, and then another

form bites you in the ass. its really not worth shedding tears over

[Bluenorthwest]

137. She had contracts and that is a whole wide world of fun

I'm sure full disclosure of all such existing tapes was part of that, as well as any number of other requirements. She was not forced to take the crown, or the contract, or the money, or the enhancements. She made a trade, and she was false in her trading.

[Bluebear]

145. First of all, how is she being "penalized"? By being disinvited as the speaker at the ex-gay rally?

It's too bad, but she was trying to parlay her "opposite marriage" runner-up's answer into a career as a pure-as-snow Christian speaker. She even named her pageant-bought breast implants Mary and Ruth. Now something from her past indicates that she is not the material they were looking for to speak at rallies against gays?

Color me unimpressed.

[redqueen]

152. When I read 'penalized' I interpreted that as demonized.

I'm all for shaming her for being an ignorant bigot... but calling her a prostitute or a slut or a whore for making a private sex tape is IMO uncalled for and sexist.

[Prism]

148. I agree with you

I loathe Prejean's politics, and frankly I thought her own ignorance was plenty enough rope for a self-hanging.

What happened to her could happen to any of us. Yes, we're happy because she's a conservative homophobe getting her just desserts and all that. Still, she's now being called a whore, slut, etc. for something she did in her own home with a boyfriend. The reactions have been very demeaning to women, anti-sex, hypocritical, etc. It's a shame to see. Too often people cite hypocrisy as reason enough to abandon their liberalism in the name of getting a political enemy. Just as I hate that every Republican ever is supposedly secretly gay, I don't much care for a woman's private, consensual sexual activities being used to brand her as some kind of prostitute beneath contempt. I mean, Jesus. Let's not become what we despise, eh?

[Imagevision]

150. She was 17 and sent the tape to her boyfriend (?) eh, ya can't believe everything you read, no logic

Was she having sex with another girl? a dog? whe these people are caught red-handed anything goes as far as explanations go. do you have a link to where the boyfriend verified the story before he shared Carrie's video?

[rucky]

158. I can't really make a judgement on this until I see the tape. n/t

[Toasterlad]

163. Not If She's a Hypocrite.

If she wants to go around and preach about family values and morality, she should practice what she preaches.

She deserves everything she gets, and I hope that she is ostracized so much by her fellow hypocritical bible-thumpers that she's forced to turn tricks on the street to stay alive. I would drive by her corner ten times and a day and laugh in her face.

Hypocrites who try to lecture others on morality and then get exposed as frauds deserve everything they get and more.

[marmar]

165. I tend to agree, but on the other hand.....Cosmic Karma, baby.

nt

[Fuzz]

172. Had she won the pageant, not answered the question that way, the tape would have come out as well.

[RetroLounge]

186. Who cares about her?

She's a right-wing tool.

RL

[Bluenorthwest]

189. That's show biz! Stupid people need really good lawyers.

Just to keep them from self inflicted harm. It is so fun to watch her stupid expose her hypocrisy.

[Enrique]

193. she was penalized?

I thought it was a solo tape.

[emilyg]

206. Agree.

[devilgrrl]

214. Personally? Anyone who tapes themselves having sex... is a NARCISSIST!!!!

It's THAT simple.

Boo Hoo Carrie Prejean. :nopity:

[TwilightGardener]

221. I have to laugh, because I can't for the life of me figure out why

other people want to be nekkid on video. Even when I was younger...nope, just not that into myself.

[devilgrrl]

222. What I find amusing is that people that do that don't it will fly back into their faces!

I mean "HELLO?"

[aikoaiko]

224. Technically, I don't think she is being penalized.

Two parties suing each met, disclosed some evidence to counter certain claims, and both sides dropped their suits.

This is American civil justice at its finest.

Plus, Carrie got a free boob job. She came out on top I think.

[blogslut]

225. I wholeheartedly disagree

Miss Thing violated a law that people in my industry take as seriously as death. We've fought long and hard to get the Ashcroft/Gonzales to back off on updates to TITLE 18/2257 that would expose performer's personal info to the public as well as other unreasonable record-keeping requirements. We managed to get the courts to enforce an injunction against the changes the Ashcroft/Gonzales USAG wanted added to that law and then the Adam Walsh law snuck in new changes to 2257 that made every single person that links to adult material a producer.

If Ms. Prejean wants to play this game then she should be as susceptible to the laws concerning it as I am.

[Warren DeMontague]

233. There is karmic justice whenever an uptight, anti-sex, control freak busybody

is hoisted upon their own hypocrisy.

[TheKentuckian]

235. I have little to no sympathy for hypocrites getting busted

and called on their bullshit.

I don't get the idea that she is being penalized for the the tape. The government is not punishing her in any way. Getting a bogus halo bent isn't a penalty.