Why is Dennis Kucinich such a lightning rod here?

[cali]

Bernie isn't. So what's the deal with the hate/love thing with Dennis. For the record, I think Dennis fulfills a useful function in the House, and I don't have a problem at all with his voting against the HCR legislation.

[Bonobo]

1. Ummm, Cali...

Even you can't spell "lightning"? Jeez.

The thing with Dennis?I dunno. People get irritated by purists when they are starving and have no health care.

[cali]

7. yikes. thanks for the correction. I'd like to claim typo, but it wasn't

[Bonobo]

17. It's been on my list of spelling pet peeves for a few years now.

I noticed a lot of people started doing that at the same time.

It's a mystery to me how it started. But it has taken on a life of its own...

[LWolf]

2. It's a team thing.

"You're either with us or against us."

[SIMPLYB1980]

10. And progressives remind the rest of the Democratic party

of that every day. Turn about is fair play.

[dionysus]

3. my guess is many members of the self styled ultra left here have been trashing obama whilst singing

kooch's praises for so long, the inevitable pushback happened, triggered by dennis voting against the HCR bill.

people can only go so long with the "obama sucks, dennis is the only real dem" day, after day, after day, after day...

[Bonobo]

5. I think that is probably a large mechanism for this, yeah. nt

[Toots]

6. It seems to me the same people trashing Dennis are also trashing the Bill.

I have not seen any that openly despise Dennis brag about the House Bill..It is my opinion they just want to stir up shit..

[dionysus]

8. many of them it is single payer or nothing. but they completely ignore the fact that

unfortunately, single payer DOES NOT HAVE THE VOTES TO COME CLOSE TO PASSING. they act as if we could start over and the blue dogs that don't even want a public option would vote for single payer. it's delusional.

[meegbear]

4. While I don't anything against the Congressman from Ohio ...

the constant DENNIS KUCINICH IS THE GREATEST CONGRESSMAN EVER AND IF YOU DON'T AGREE, YOU'RE A RIGHT-WING FREEPER TROLL WHO HATES DEMOCRATS, OBAMA AND THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE! postings that grate on me.

[elocs]

37. Yes, that pretty much says it all. Dennis Kucinich is a DU god who pontificates

with righteous indignation that causes his worshipers to have a collective orgasm.

He is a lawmaker who is about speeches and words because he appears not to have any major legislation to his credit and unlike Ted Kennedy was in the Senate he does not appear to have widespread respect from those who do not agree with him and he cannot work with others to bring them together. He says a lot (much with which I agree)and often seems to be granted sole credit for saying the same things others are saying and he seems to relish his role as the voice of the Left.

[peace13]

9. Let it drop. n/t

[cali]

11. Don't want to discuss it? Don't but don't tell me what to post.

the only likely result of that is I'll post another OP on the subject.

[peace13]

12. Wasn't talking to you. n/t

[TransitJohn]

21. What?

You posted a direct reply to the OP to let it drop.

[peace13]

23. Nope, I was posting to the folks who will try, in futility to support DK

and be bombarded with inane insults. There is no point in trying to support DK in threads like this. As the OP stated she will continue to post time and again on this subject. One that undermines the value of a Dem and insults his supporters. My comment was to not respond to the thread, as it fuels the fire for more of this type of posts. Yesterday this place was full of it and this morning folks who do not support DK are ready to have at it again. DemocraticUnderground...well sometimes, not so much.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. First of all, we like politicians who actually have principles

Second, he shows up the corrupt Dems who vote at the bidding of the corporations for the hypocrites they are.

If more politicians voted on the basis of principles, instead of based on who contributed the most to their campaigns, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today.

[Odin2005]

15. You mean being anti-choice before trying to run for president? Those "principles"?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. My impression is that he was like my late stepfather who called himself a

Republican because that was the culture he grew up in: affluent and in Nebraska.

However, after he married my mother, she gradually got him to see that his values were more in line with the Democrats.

Dennis represents a working class, mostly Catholic urban area, so anti-choice was part of the culture. He said that his daughter and some of the other women in his life persuaded him to change his position on abortion.

I saw him talk to an anti-choice audience member in Minneapolis. He told her that if she was really against abortion, she should work to alleviate the factors that cause women to have abortions, such as lack of access to reliable contraception or lack of social and financial support for working mothers. (The woman was taking the "killing poor little innocent babies" line, but I thought Dennis handled her extremely well.)

[ZombieHorde]

61. People have a right to change their mind on political issues.

I am hoping Pres. Obama changes his mind on gay marriage.

[peacetalksforall]

14. Time after time over years, DU members have said Dennis speaks for them.

By his vote, he still spoke for many - and still speaks for many as tidbits about the content and time-line of this proposal takes shape. And, if you are a DEM who is passionate about pro-choice - his no also said no the Stupak discriminating noose.

I am one to always praise Feingold and Wellstone for their vote legacies. Feingold - the only Senator to vote against the Patriot Act. Wellstone - his first and last vote was against the Gulf war=invasions.

Dennis did nothing to throw the vote. The question will remain - if it were down to one vote - what would he have done. Hundreds of members would probably want to answer that question - their way.

If you stand up for principles of the people, why not vote principle.

The answer to your question is in each one of us, not within him - do we want the right system.

Some use their time in smearing him. Which means we are better than Republicans - who never smear each other? Smear each other? Repubs in the House and Senate, they don't even criticize each other. It is lock step all the way.

Bravo to Kucinich. His legacy lives in the positive.

[NorthCarolina]

16. I think it is an organized effort to discredit Liberals at any opportunity

by conservative forces for purely political reasons that in actuality have little, if anything, to do with DK's no vote on the house health care insurance giveaway, and everything to do with the fact that he is a true populist/progressive. He's an unacceptable irritant to DLC/Blue Dog forces in their continuing quest to work with GOP forces to rid our government of any and all advocates for the people.

[SIMPLYB1980]

24. DK is not a Liberal.

He ran away from that when he started calling himself a "progressive".

[NorthCarolina]

33. Well I'll take DK's idea of "Progressive" over Obama's idea of "Progressive" any day of the week. nt

[SIMPLYB1980]

40. Then get use to being disappointed. nt

[JVS]

18. Haters

[stray cat]

19. some people think he is saint dennis and others deny his sainthood

[madrchsod]

20. why? because he`s right about healthcare in the usa

he had a reasonable and workable healthcare plan to cover everyone in the usa. but no one bothered to actually read and understand his healthcare proposal.

he stood on principal..he could`t vote for a bill he knew did`t solve the root cause of the problem of healthcare in the usa- for profit insurance companies controlling healthcare in the usa.

medicare works...so why is`t everyone covered in the medicare system....

[TransitJohn]

22. Because DU is a really well trafficked internet forum

and the corporate wing of the Party has many paid operatives active on the internet to influence opinion. They don't want to cede the use of the internet to the left, who had a big head start with Dean, etc.

[Butch350]

25. I saw a UFO once.?!

[peace13]

27. While he was in Bosnia with Hill! n/t

[LoZoccolo]

26. He trashes other Democrats to benefit himself, often in ways that allow him to be unaccountable.

For instance, he runs for President, excoriates the other candidates for not promising things that he himself will never have to deliver due to the fact that he's not going to get elected. I wouldn't care if he was all talk if he didn't trash everybody by holding them to an impossible and unaccountable standard.

He plays games with peoples' minds too, from Shirley MacLaine to 9/11 "truthers" (telling them he wants a full investigation of "what happened that day" so they think he's with them, while not going so far as to endorse their view).

[Bryn]

28. You Go, Girl

Dennis was right!

[Bryn]

30. Because Dennis was right to vote against HCR

He's not The Corporation whore. I wish more politicans were more like him. I won't settle for less. I wanna Single Payer for All.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

58. Ya, unless those corporations are ALCOA and Lockheed Martin.

Then he's totally on board, no questions asked.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

59. Delete. Dupe. n/t

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

60. Delete. Double-dupe. n/t

[mmonk]

31. They put him in the McKinney category while they stay silent

on Bernie. Maybe it is because Sanders is an independent. Then again, so is Lieberman.

[morgan2]

32. because Dennis is the only congressman not to compromise with corporatism

and he is slightly insane. I agree with the guy 99% of the time, but he's a bit of a nut. You have to be a little crazy to deal with his fate. Never too pass any legislation in this world. Always fighting a helpless battle. Some hate him because he harms the message with his eccentricities, and some hate him because he won't compromise.

[PVnRT]

34. Because he's a useful epithet

"You disagree with Obama? Yeah, right, like Kucinich would win."

He has a much higher public profile than Sanders and has run for President twice, so he's the bigger target.

[HamdenRice]

35. Bernie is rational, "normal," doesn't believe in UFOs, and votes with the Democratic caucus

Kuch is a nut who sometimes says nice things, sometimes says entertaining things, and sometimes says crazy things.

But when he tries to pull multiple Liebermans, he deserves to have all of his nuttiness revealed in its demented glory.

Bernie: Uncompromising progressive socialist, truth teller, with a pragmatic streak.

Kuch: Grandstanding nut job, bald faced pathological liar, con man, and "fake left" version of Lieberman.

[HughMoran]

36. Since his proponents say his vote didn't matter anyway

I say - who cares? :shrug:

[Ikonoklast]

38. Then it all follows, perfectly.

His vote was just as unimportant and symbolic as Dennis is.


OK, I can go for that.


And for those that think single payer would have had any chance of passing either the Senate or the House, just look at the votes over this bill.

No matter what you might think, say, or do, single payer would have been a non-starter and DOA, and it would have never left committee. That's the reality of the situation.

[HughMoran]

39. I agree completely

That was my very subtle point. IF he is insignificant and his vote RARELY MATTERS, then is he really a leader? If bills he introduces have absolutely no support even on his own side of the aisle, of what significance is the introduction of such other than to represent a self-promotional stunt on his part? IF he can form a coalition of support for a particular proposal THEN I say he should introduce his legislation. An army of one? Nice marketing campaign.

[rucky]

41. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x401147

[question everything]

42. Because, like Nader, all he thinks is of himself

and the rest of us are useful tools or collateral damage.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

57. Just look at his websites:

America's only (and most courageous) congressman.

[nightrain]

43. I think The furor about DK is more about his willingness to vote his conscience

on health insurance reform. Remember, if you've been bought off, you'll do unethical things in payback....

[MrMickeysMom]

44. Gee, cali... that's good of you to say

I don't have a problem with his voting against the "insurance" reform legislation either.

He has capitalized on that awful legislation's moment to remind us of what he's always been for, coincidentally the same as Senator Bernie Sanders has.

Everything seems to be political. Dennis has taken the initial moment to remind America what health care reform was supposed to have meant, and I believe Bernie will next.

[Berry Cool]

45. I laugh at people who say all DK detractors are corporate shills.

I only wish! If I were getting paid to post stuff about him on DU, I wouldn't be looking for another job.

Nah, some people here dislike DK because they know he talks a good game but cannot deliver, and he relishes his role as a Don Quixote tilting at windmills, but would have absolutely no idea what to do if he actually won the tilt.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

46. The two warring sides agree on one question: Would He Vote Against Us If We Needed Him?

Both sides (pro-Kucinich and anti-Kucinich) argue that he would.

I think people believe that Sanders would work with the Dems because his voting record shows that. Same for most of the Progressive Caucus. The two polarized Kucinich groups think that Kucinich wouldn't. Therefore he would take down a whole piece of legislation based on one vote. That is a lot of power to attribute to someone and that makes him contentious.

[nightrain]

47. well, I think voting his conscience is honorable. Let's not do an "us/them" thing, when he is

clearly a Dem.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

48. Fair point. I meant "us" referring to the Dem majority.

Be it Stimulus, Climate Change or HIR

[nightrain]

49. yeah, that's how I took it... It's still all us too....

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

50. Because Bernie actually tries to accomplish things...

...instead of continually bashing the Democratic party and running pointless, vapid vanity Presidential campaigns as a way to raise money.

[mmonk]

51. Or awareness instead of falsehoods about bipartisanship

with people who aren't instead of admitting corporations come first to them before constituents.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

55. Perhaps you should consult information on Kucinich's interventions on behalf of Lockheed Martn

One of those defense contractors he supposedly despises.

[varelse]

52. I think Dennis has made a career out of being a lightning rod

and that if he is fine with it, his supporters (myself included) should be prepared to deal with it as well. This is the guy the Cleveland mob attempted to hit, after all. Ironically a bleeding ulcer saved him from assassination.

[natrat]

53. maybe the whore trolls just use this as distraction

so people don't talk about all the other fascist shit going on right under the surface-- like the corporate theft from the treasury and coming fake financial regulation and of course the lives being thrown away with afghanistan escalation.

[zonkers]

54. Dennis keeps it real. (but his lame answer to UFO question in 04 debates still haunts me (link)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSRWRbuMqyc

on edit -- Obama would not have let Russert make him look so silly, that's for sure.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

56. Anyone who challenges Barack is a lightning rod. ALWAYS. FOR ANYTHING.

In this case though, I think Dennis was wrong.


I have good health insurance, but many people don't.


I think this bill will help people. So I'm for it.


I'd rather have something (2009 Barack) than nothing (90's Clinton).


I believe both Hillary and Barack want STRONG healthcare for all. I'm glad Barack studied the mistakes from the 90's and I hope he succeeds.

This bill will not be ideal AT ALL. But we need to get a start.