Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

A 5% victory

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 06:12 PM
Original message
A 5% victory
Our party sacrificed roughly 50% of our principles and goals to the insurance industry right at the start just to appease them and get them to the table. Then our brave and noble leaders continued to give away more, and more as if it was a fun party game.

What we end up with is a bill that gives about 95% of the possible outcome to corporations, and 'wins' maybe 5% for us. Woo Hoo!

Let's hear it for the Awesome diplomacy and tactical skills of our party. With majorities in both houses, a massive popular president at the Bully Pulpit, and a HUGE Public Mandate that our party could have called upon in a coordinated campaign, our party managed to achieve 5%!

We are now all supposed to cheer the MIGHTY HUNTERS who came back with glorious 5% win as if this was the goal all along, as if this is a momentous victory, as if nothing better was ever possible and nobody could ever possible imagine doing better than this.

All of us who want better than this, and demanded better than this, and protested all the give-aways ever step of the way are being attacked and told that we don't really want any kind of win at all. We are being told that we really want a total loss, so we are really just republicans. Because a 5% win is such a wonderful glorious thing!

The people who are perfectly happy celebrating 5% are unhappy because we expected a popular president, and a party with a large majority in both houses and a public mandate to come back with at least, oh, say 20%

Achieving health care step by step is reasonable. Taking 3 steps back in order to take 1 step forward is not!

We threw women under the bus to get this GLORIOUS 5% victory. Woo Hoo! Our party represents full equality for women!

And, our politicians must have had no choice but to guarantee that insurance companies will get mega subsidies and mega profits. Sure, people can't be denied insurance for pre-existing conditions. (I personally appreciate that advance) But how much does that mean when they can still charge higher co-pays and deductibles and then deny or cancel coverage when you actually try to use the service. None of those practices are prohibited. I'll be able to spend a large chunk of my fixed income on an insurance policy, but will my government make sure I'll ever be able to actually use it every month? For how long?

While our politicians were bribing insurance companies with huge guarantees of OUR MONEY to get them to participate, instead of mandating their participation, why couldn't they include strong guarantees to protect US? Why are Corporations bribed and we are mandated? I thought the Government was supposed to represent and benefit US? How about bribing us and mandating Them?

In all of this, our party totally accepted the insurance industry's insistence that the ONLY WAY to cut costs was to cut service. Has everyone noted this? Costs were cut by delaying service roll-outs, and by reducing and restricting the services that will be available (especially to women). What a huge success advocating for us! Woo Hoo!

Hey, wasn't that the kind of thing health care reform was supposed to be AGAINST. Wow, Great victory there guys!

Nowhere at all are insurance companies expected to cut their costs. No place are they expected to reduce their profits, or their executive rates of pay, or bonuses, or least of all their bribes to politicians. The best our politicians could do is timidly saying "we are going to try to negotiate prices." But they agreed to limit participation in the public plan to a tiny portion of the population, and delay the roll-out, so they won't any significant negotiating power. And, our Valiant politicians agreed that the goal for negotiations will be to match market rates, not reductions below the already inflated market rates.

Wow, that's bargaining from a strong position!

Instead of getting the insurance industry to cut costs, we were told FROM THE VERY BEGINNING that the real goal was to "reduce the rate at which costs increase." Wow, what a victory! Not only do we only get 5% of what we wanted, but we get to stay with costs we were already knew were far, far too high, and we get to watch them go UP. Just maybe not quite as quickly as they have in the past few years when the economy was better.

Maybe we will only be hit with 10% increases per year instead of 12-20% increases. Nobody can say. There isn't any real restriction. It seems sort of like an honor system promise at this point. But as long as the insurance industry keeps bringing in their mega profits, hey, it is all great! We got our wonderful 5% victory!

Someday, somehow, this brilliant approach is supposed to result in us paying rates comparable to the rest of the industrial world. Can anyone out there (using real math and logic) explain to me how that would be possible? Anyone?

And, can anyone tell me how we get to real health care, step by step, when our politicians
1. represent corporations more than us
2. throwing out our most important and essential goals right at the start
3. don't even pretend that cutting costs for consumers is one of the objectives

Wow, I'm so stoked about how powerful our politicians were at the negotiation table though. Who could have predicted that they would have achieved so little so masterfully! Woo Hoo!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. This equal to going hunting and coming back with just the hooves.
A feast for everyone!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes, but they were mighty hunters, and we should all be so PROUD
of them for it. They fought so HARD for those hooves. :P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. You could boil the hooves and make hoof glue soup - infinitely divisible soup.
Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 06:23 PM by kenny blankenship
And glue really sticks to your ribs. I'm just saying.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Mmmmmm. Hoof glue soup. Just like Mom used to make.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Eat it up before the glue sets.
It's a lot harder later.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Very well said!
Hooves won't even make a soup, for crying in a bucket!

:nuke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. My DLC PARTY WON! WHOPPEE!
Who cares a rat shit in hell about the average American. Let them become exectutives at Insurance Conglomerates if they want decent coverage.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. A disgusted K&R
:puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
29. yesyes
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. Sadly, I must k&r this thread.
I am ashamed of the Democratic Party for this one.

:dem:

-Laelth
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. Righteous RANT!!! Perfect summary of the farce called health care "reform"
You said it all.
:thumbsup: :hi: :kick: :yourock:
BHN
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Thank you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JoeyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. +1
Of course if calling us Republicans in disguise doesn't work, they try telling us we don't care about sick people, insisting we want ponies, perfect is the enemy of the good, etc etc. It's like they think those are clever arguments or something.

Don't worry though! Maybe someday in the far off future this can be revised into something that might be of use to someone that isn't the religious right or the insurance industry. After all, we've seen the huge improvements to all the other social programs over the last ten years, right? Right?! Just don't hold your breath. Asphyxiation likely isn't covered anymore.

We didn't even get hooves. We got the promise of hooves in a few years. You know, when it's too late to annihilate their chances of victory in 2012 once women figure out how badly the party screwed them and decide to stay home.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. That is true. The people who actually got the whole animal
have promised to deliver the hooves some time in 2013. But between now and then a whole lot could happen.

On the one hand, maybe we'll get the hooves and a bit of grizzle too. Bonus!
on the other hand, maybe they'll decide that they needed those hooves more than us for some reason.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-09-09 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
13. The crap that passed, was passed by 2 votes
I, too, am disappointed. What is the alternative if this passes by only 2? It is a start, we have more work to do but lets take what we can get for now...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
15. Great post kick-
Sad that so many threads like this one die-
It is a great thread!

BHN
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
swimboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
16. Amazing post, Mr. Cat--K&R
:loveya:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. Thank you, Swimboy.
:)

It is very good to see you. :loveya:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
17. Call me crazy.
But since this bill actually HELPS people like me, I think its unfair to throw it out with the bathwater. Those who are waiting to be insurable again, won't thank you for your stands..Again, helping actual real people is more important than making political points. And to deny this bill does help people is short sighted and ignorant.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
swimboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. What do you think of the rate of exchange?
Giving up 50% of the principles for a 5% victory
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. I see a few problems with that.
1. Because you got help, screw everyone else? How is that a good attitude?

I am in the same position you are in. I am now insurable again too. But I am seeing that our insurance isn't necessarily going to be assured. The protections that our insurance will won't be canceled, or coverage for treatments denied are toothless. So we will be able to buy it and give the insurance companies money, but actually getting benefit from that insurance isn't assured. Of course they will take our money though. That's a great advance, isn't it?

2. As long as you don't need reproductive services, yes, this bill really helps you. But what about women who do need reproductive services. A whole lot of them are deliberately excluded.

3. You and I will be among the very few almost certainly allowed to use the actual public option. The current talk is that that the company administering the public option will be able to use their bargaining power to try to negotiate rates, but only to get them in line with market rates. The goal will not be to get any savings below market rates. With minimal people on the public option, and the people with the worst health issues on it, that negotiation is expected to result in higher rates, not lower.

So we can get insurance, but we will still pay the most for it. As long as you are working, perhaps that isn't an issue for you. But once you are on a fixed income like I am, and most people with serious health issues, will those higher costs make the insurance unreachable or unusable? Limiting the number of people with access to the PO so severely really seriously harms us in a very tangible financial way. I am very surprised you don't grasp that immediately.

4. I agree with you that any step forward is good. But that does NOT mean that it is good enough.

Especially when we see that our party is giving away so much to corporate interests that could have helped us more, and they are doing it solely out of greed and lack of real concern for us, should we settle for this and cheer it as if it is the apex of hope?

When they are building corruption into the very process of trying to advance health care, creating an administrative inertia that will make further progress increasingly more difficult, while making future gains for insurance companies more likely, are we supposed to say nothing about this?



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
19. Like Rachel Maddow said last night, "They snatched defeat from the jaws of victory"
Edited on Tue Nov-10-09 12:46 PM by Major Hogwash
And then they all acted like it was some kind of huge win for the people of the United States.

Unless they can get this abortion of a bill reworked in the Senate, there is no hope, and there is no change.

And they aren't going to rework this in the Senate anyway, so it was all just a shell game.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberal_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
20. Very well said. I completely agree. k &r.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Actually,
I am cringing, re-reading this. I wish I had edited this a lot when I wasn't so enraged. My grammar and spelling are atrocious. :(

But, thank you very much. I am very glad the ideas came across so well. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberal_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
21. This has really got me worried
Edited on Tue Nov-10-09 12:56 PM by liberal_at_heart
Bush and Cheney rewrote exectutive powers to suit their needs. The republican congress shoved policies down our throats for 8 years, and now that we have democrats in charge this is the leadership we have? Can you imagine how this must bolster the republicans? They know they have their foot on our neck and they aren't even in power but they will be and if we thougt they were powerful before know that they know we won't even put up a fight we are going to be in real trouble.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. You make a good point.
The republicans were able to get 80-90% of anything they wanted, even unpopular things when they had huge opposition. We can't get anywhere close to that success rate no matter how popular the goals, and no matter how powerful our party supposedly is.

Part of that is the acceptance of dissent in our party. But far more of it is that we have recruited too many republican-wannabees into our party in order to win more seats and get the majority. We don't have a party that HAS any unified goals or plans anymore, or the will to enact them.

The party as a whole no longer really care what the public wants, or how important something is to the welfare of the citizens of the US. Only certain people in the party care. The party as a whole is too fractured ideologically with too many right, far right, and pro-corporate members.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
26. K & R. Sometimes the truth hurts. Change is just a jingle in their pockets.
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
27. K&R


* Healthcare will remain unaffordable for many Americans. The bill does not do nearly enough to control skyrocketing insurance, pharmaceutical, and hospital costs. Indeed, by various estimates, with no effective limits on the insurance industry's price gouging, out-of-pocket costs for premiums, deductibles and other fees by some estimates with eat up from 15 to 19 percent of family incomes by several accounts.

* No meaningful reform of the rampant insurance denials of medical treatment the insurers don't want to pay for.

* Little assistance for individuals and families who presently have employer-sponsored health plans and face frequent erosion of their coverage and health security. No help for the healthcare cost-shifting from employers to employees.

* Minimal expansion of consumer choice. The much debated public plan option will be available only to about 2 percent of people under age 65, mostly those now not covered who buy insurance on their own (it may or may not be expanded in 2015). Further, no additional plan options for those in the many markets dominated by one or two private plans, and no additional choice of doctor or hospital within existing plans.

* The new limits on abortion extended to poor women.

Ultimately, the combination of the mandate to buy insurance, federal subsidies to low income families to purchase private plans, failure to adequately control insurance prices or crack down on the abuse of insurance denials make the House bill -- and its Senate counterpart -- look a lot like a massive bailout for the private insurance industry.

...


http://www.counterpunch.org/demoro11102009.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Yes, it does look like a massive bailout of the private
insurance industry.

Your critiques are right on the spot. 15 years from now we'll be trying all over again to implement health care reform because of this failure. :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NoUsername Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Oh, I don't know.
I'm guessing that 15 years fro now they'll be scrapping it because it will prove that since "health care reform" is such a miserable failure, well, that just goes to show that those damn "socialist" programs don't work and as such, those programs are better off left to the private sector. Except, of course, when the private sector can make more profits off of things like mandates, in which case they will argue that "socialism" does work. The so-called success of HCR will depend not on whether or more people actually receive decent, affordable health care but rather whether or not it improves the bottom line of the health insurance corporations. After all, that's the most important factor in HCR. Or anything else for that matter.

That said, ThomCat, you should be ashamed of yourself for posting your OP. Don't you know that *anything* that the Dems pass is inherently "for the good of the people" and must never ever be criticized. You must be new here. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 10th 2024, 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC