If Dennis Kucinich were NOT in The Democratic Party.....

[bvar22]

If Dennis Kucinich were NOT in The Democratic Party, who would tell us that:

*Single Payer Universal HealthCare is not only possible, but cheaper.

*that "For Profit" Health Insurance is obscene.

*that Mandatory Health Insurance is NOT REALLY Universal HealthCare

*that the Democratic Party and American taxpayers should NOT be forced to subsidize some of the richest CEOs in history by subsidizing the HealthCare Insurance Corps and HMOs.

*that the USA SHOULD give the Imperial Palace (Green Zone) back to the Iraqis, close the permanent bases, expel all Corporate Consultants, withdraw ALL US Troops, and begin paying reparations NOW.

*that redeploying some troops at some future date is a PRO-WAR position.

*that the "Oil Law Benchmark" supported by the Democratic Party is a War Crime

*That we can have transparent and verifiable elections with "Paper Ballots publicly hand counted at the precinct".

*that we CAN cut $Hundreds of Billions$ from the Defense Budget and STILL spend more on WAR than any country in the WORLD.

*that the RICHEST Corporations in history do NOT need $Billions$ in welfare subsidies

*that NAFTA (Free Trade) has not been a good thing for Americans who have to Work for a Living

*that prosecuting Torturers & War Criminals is NOT optional.

*that the USA should join the rest of the civilized World in banning Land Mines

*that the USA should join the rest of the civilized World in the International Criminal Court.

Thank You, Dennis Kucinich!


”Unlike other candidates, I am not funded by those corporate interests.
I owe them no loyalty, and they have no influence over me or my policies.” ---Dennis Kucinich





"I don’t represent the big oil companies. I don’t represent the big pharmaceutical companies.
I don’t represent the Enrons of this world. But you know what?
They already have great representation in Washington.
It’s the rest of the people that need it.”
---Paul Wellstone’s Last Commercial

[ProleNoMore]

1. I Stand With Dennis Kucinich

eom

[Vincardog]

12. +1 I Stand With Dennis Kucinich

[spiritual_gunfighter]

114. +2 I Stand With Dennis Kucinich

[aquart]

14. Who talks good and votes Republican.

[ProleNoMore]

39. A DLCer Could Not Have Said It Better

eom

[ooglymoogly]

66. You my friend, need to take a Breathalyzer test

just to prove you are not a gasbag for Rahm and the DLC.

[man4allcats]

74. Take a laxative.

You'll feel better.

[tomp]

75. you got that wrong.

all those suckers who voted for the bill...those are the republicans.

[Enthusiast]

84. And I also stand with Dennis Kucinich. nt

[TheWraith]

2. Wish you guys would tell all this to the New York political bloggers.

They're ready to hang Eric Massa in effigy for doing the same thing.

[meegbear]

3. Ted Kennedy did

[Sebastian Doyle]

7. Yeah, he did

And it sickens me to see so many Cigna/Blue Cross/United Health Care/Cheerleaders using Ted Kennedy avatars and invoking his name in support of the Monica Lewinsky Memorial Corporate Fellation Act of 2009.

[Political Heretic]

136. He did, and if he saw that we were calling "health care reform" he'd roll in his grave.

[Cant trust em]

4. I don't really have a problem with Dennis.

I'm not really a huge supporter either.

[chill_wind]

5. The Republicans have none. We have one-

and incredibly that's one too many in our so-called "big tent" for some.

K & R.

[Echo In Light]

15. Best post in this thread

K&R for DK

[chill_wind]

post blip- delete

[chill_wind]

36. The desire to purge Dennis gives whole new ironic meaning to the phrase "purists"

so often disparaged around here with so much gusto, can't help but notice.

[bvar22]

45. I have noticed.

Some people have no sense of irony or hypocrisy.

"Centrism"...because its so EASY!
You don't have to STAND for ANYTHING, and get to insult those who do!!!!
:party:

[Jefferson23]

106. Exactly, this is a great thread, thank you.

One day, I hope my children will have a president like Kucinich, a true patriot, a man for the people.

[JDPriestly]

123. Great post, bvar22

[pattmarty]

52. I don't want to belittle the point, but we have some pretty decent "liberals".............

..............Bernie Sanders, Dick Durbin, John Kerry, Barbara Boxer, Sherrod Brown, Russ Feingold, Al Franken, Tom Harkin, and that's not even ALL of them in the Senate. The House has probably 100 give or take. The "problem" is all the conservative Dems, who are more like the "moderate" Republican party of the 50's and 60's.

[chill_wind]

80. We do, and I like many of those mentioned, a lot, in fact, on a variety of scores

but even collectively I'm not sure they've all taken up what DK consistently adheres to as just one Rep.
I couldn't agree more about the Conservadems.

[bvar22]

113. There are a handful of REAL Democrats in the Democratic Party.

They get direct campaign donations from me.

I no longer donate to the DNC, DCCC, or DSCC.
If you Work for a Living, they WILL use your money AGAINST you.

Evan Bayh (Senator, Indiana) is up for re-election in 2010.
I WILL be donating to his Primary challenger.
I encourage EVERYONE to do the same.



The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[pattmarty]

126. I couldn't agree more on Bayh, he is one of those "new moderate" Republicans.

In my state we have Lincoln and Pryor. Out of "our" 60 majority, there are probably 20 of what I call conservative Democrats.

[bvar22]

144. What part of Arkansas do you line in?

In 2006, my wife & I moved from Minneapolis to the Ouachita Mtns. in West Central Arkansas to grow our own.
We love it here. :hi:



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=268x2601

[pattmarty]

148. In 2001 my wife and I retired to Mountain Home from Chicago.............

............I love it, her, not so much. No crowds, no (or very little) snow or cold weather AND super cheap to live.

[tomp]

76. self-delete. wrong spot. nt

[inna]

6. KR

:kick:

[mod mom]

8. When did standing up for progressive principles become taboo on DU?

I am really surprised by some of the comments berating Dennis Kucinich from DUers I had come to respect. I join w bvar22 in issuing a BIG Thank You to Rep Kucinich for not backing down!

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LWolf]

104. When a center-right politician

was nominated and elected.

[rudy23]

9. See my journal to view a chronicle of the orchestrated anti DK posts in action

They're in full force today. I started talking about this in July

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6022082

[bvar22]

16. "Message Discipline"

Here is something you might find interesting:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeremy-scahill/rahm-emanuels-think-tanke_b_185203.html

Historically, there have been periods when allegiance to a Political Party or a Charismatic Leader has superseded a commitment to good policy and humanistic IDEALS.
Those Periods have ended badly.

[rudy23]

21. Everyone on DU should read this. We have to be aware of what's going on.

Thanks for posting!

[BeHereNow]

23. Scahill kicks ass and takes names...

I met him a few years ago- he is a savant, without question.
Unbelievable speaker and a walking talking encyclopedia of FACTS.

BHN

[rudy23]

30. I just saw someone call DK "the Al Sharpton of the left"

How does it feel knowing the time and money we donated to Obama is working against progressives to try and tar Dennis Kucinich, and to try and smear us by association?

[spiritual_gunfighter]

121. I saw that

in the same thread someone called all of us who support DK "left wing teabaggers". Corporate/DLCers have no shame.

[sabrina 1]

43. Interesting, thanks for the link. Not a surprise, and confirms the

the observation of how similar they are to the rightwingers who had a similar 'message controlled' organizations. Which is why they all sound the same. Same list of childish 'insults and other talking points. It gives them away. They refuse to talk about issues, just attack and try to derail conversations. It's old, not very effective, and probably has the opposite effect. It's one of the many reasons why I am not a Republican as I saw this exact same thing on rightwing boards and found it to be very disturbing and deceptive.

I have had nothing to do with Move-on for years, after they basically went along with the ban on discussing election fraud ordered from somewhere in the hierarchy of the party.

I see they are now 'targeting' the 'no' voters. They don't email me anymore asking for money. Let Rahm pay for them. I guess they are being well paid to do so. How sad, no wonder they all hate Kucinich, he is their worst nightmare, he cannot be bought and controll

This is scary ~ any group that demands lock-step agreement with any political party, conjures up frightening images of other 'groups' who became mindless tools of authoritarian governments.

The so-called Liberal groups have sold themselves to the Party.

[GinaMaria]

133. "Because that's the way Rahm plays."

That line really summed it up.

[msongs]

10. there you go again trying to be progressive against the conservative dems who run the party nt

[Dawgs]

13. Exactly, ALL TALK!!

But that is apparently enough for some.

[Toasterlad]

26. You People Crack Me Up.

You blast Dennis for not getting anything done because he can't get anyone to stand firm with him on anything, then you blast him for being an obstructionist when he refuses to vote for whatever legislative abortion has leaked out of the rest of the GOP-raped Democrats in Congress.

We don't applaud Dennis for getting things done, and we don't blame him for it either. We applaud him for standing up to what's right no matter what, and we blame those Democrats who are willing to bend over for Republicans (in other words, all the rest of the Democrats).

[bc3000]

63. I agree completely

also, go birds!

[Toasterlad]

132. .

:thumbsup:

[Sinti]

17. Opposition to the Oil Law Benchmark alone

would be enough for me. I know who Dennis is working for.

How many regular Americans think it's a good idea to force another country to give your private oil corporations rights to 2/3 of their oil resource, for a generation - particularly after you just bombed the bejesus out of them, and false pretenses aside? This is what we're calling Iraqi cooperation? Armed robbers go to jail, but if you do it at a large enough scale...

[cali]

18. Ever hear of Bernie Sanders?

Anyone who thinks Dennis is the sole dem with those positions is simply ignorant.

[dionysus]

27. +1

[bvar22]

28. Now, now, Dear.

You DO know that Bernie Sanders is NOT a "Democrat"?

Just use your Google.

[cali]

32. sweetums, Bernie is my Senator and he caucuses with the dems and always has

but do continue with your slavering adulation, honey.

[bvar22]

41. Thanks, Sugar Pie, but....

...if you will go back and read the OP, I listed a number of ISSUES.
Unlike the Barack-o-maniacs, I pledge allegiance to NO man, but am an Issues advocate....always have been.
That is WHY I listed those "ISSUES" thingies in Bullet Points in the OP.

Dennis Kucinich fights for The Issues that best represent my political position.
That is WHY I support him and a handful of Democrats from the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party....THEY speak for ME.
The "Centrist/Corporatists" do NOT speak for me.

If someone comes along who is even more "Democratic" than Kucinich, I will support them too.
No starry-eyed hero worship here.
It is NOT about the personality.
It IS about the ISSUES, dear.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[Lydia Leftcoast]

56. I'm an issues person, too

I support anyone who agrees with my ISSUES.

I like not only Kucinich but DeFazio, Sanders, Ellison, Feingold, and others who consistently stand up for the people instead of the corporations.

And my issues are ones that have to do with the future of this country, whether we're going to be peaceful and prosperous, with a fair chance for everyone, or whether we're going to continue morphing into a militaristic banana republic with a huge gap between the rich and poor.

Why do I support Dennis Kucinich in particular?

Well, at the urging of some Minnesota DUers, I went to hear him speak in August 2003, shortly after moving back to the Twin Cities.

In the middle of the speech, I started crying, because it was the first time in literally 23 years that I had heard an elected Democratic official speak so plainly and forcefully about the issues that everyone else seemed to pretend didn't exist.

He spoke twice more to increasingly large crowds and ended up winning 17% of the caucus vote in Minnesota, including winning osme precincts in the Twin Cities outright, thanks to a dedicated team of guerrilla campaigners, of whom I am proud to have been a minor foot soldier.

By the way, he was the ONLY candidate who spoke at open rallies in Minnesota before June 2004. Dean, Edwards, and others came to the Twin Cities earlier but spoke only to big money donors. That should tell you something.

That should tell you that our major, mainstream candidates no longer try to connect with ordinary people.

[dflprincess]

49. And I have heard Bernie Sanders correct people when they call him a Democrat

on Thom Hartmann's show. He caucuses with the Democrats because there is not an Independent or Socialist caucus.

[SandWalker1984]

68. Bernie likes the progressive Dems but not the "right-wing" Dems

I too listen to Brunch with Bernie each Friday at noon on the Hartmann show!

[bvar22]

112. "Brunch with Bernie" is DO NOT MISS!

Thom Hartmann's Friday Radio Program.

XM/Sirius channel 167 @ 2PM Central

OR

Listen "Over-the-Net"...11AM Central

http://www.thomhartmann.com/?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=31

[Enthusiast]

85. I will support Bernie Sander's election

He is a great American.

[deutsey]

95. I believe he, like me, is a Democratic Socialist n/t

[Political Heretic]

138. He was formerly of the Socialist Party, god bless him. :)

[bvar22]

145. "Democrat" no longer means what it used to mean...

....now that The Party has become corrupted/polluted with "New Dems/Clinton Dems/DLC Centrists".

FDR, JFK, LBJ, and my father would ALL be SICK at what their Party has become.

"I am a New Democrat."---Obama

What was wrong with the OLD Democrats like FDR?

"I'm an OLD Democrat, like FDR.
Fuck a bunch of New Democrats."---bvar22

:hi:

[chill_wind]

44. ..

:-)

[pundaint]

82. er, Bernie is not a Democrat

He is on a much higher plane of public service.

[rpannier]

87. Bernie Sanders is registered Independent

Actually he's a Socialist. But the media finds that to be class warfare or something

[Political Heretic]

137. Ever hear that Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat?

He is an independent, formerly of the socialist party.

There's a reason why he's an independent and not a Democrat.

Still though, I think Bernie has managed to be a more skilled politician than Kucinich, where without compromising core values, he has managed to work with other legislators to produce legislation and contribute more than just the quarterly speech on the floor.

I support anyone who tells the truth, so that includes Kucinich. But Sanders is, for me, even more of a model of a principled leftist who also works hard with other legislators to get things done.

[Eyerish]

19. I agree with you BVAR, K&R...

I was thinking about Paul last night and how pissed he'd be right now. We need more true fighters for the People.

[Xithras]

20. Donate to Dennis here

http://kucinich.us/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46&Itemid=58

With the negative reaction of many of the faux liberals to his principled stand, I suspect that he'll be needing the support.

[BeHereNow]

22. Recommended!!!!

Thaks BVAR, great compilation of facts.

Too bad so many are in denial and continue to cling to their delusional state of mind.

BHN

[Egnever]

24. I'll take a grayson over a kooch any day of the week

Denis rails loudly but gets nothing accomplished. Mostly because nothing is ever good enough for him.

Grayson on the other hand so far has made much more efective noise than kooch and knows when its time to lay down the rhetoric and jump on board.

Kooch is like a toy sized dog. All bark and no bite.

[Bluenorthwest]

29. A political argument that includes cracks about a person's looks

Is all bull and no brain. All con and no content.

[redqueen]

31. That wasn't about looks. (nt)

[SandWalker1984]

73. Grayson has some interesting friends in high places

Grayson was employed as a law clerk at the Colorado Supreme Court in 1983, and at the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals from 1984 to 1985, where he worked with such judges as Abner Mikva, Robert Bork, and two judges who later joined the U.S. Supreme Court: Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Antonin Scalia. He was an associate at the Washington D.C. firm of Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson for five years, where he specialized in contract law. In 1991 he founded the law firm Grayson, Kubli which concentrated on government contract law. He was a lecturer at the George Washington University government contracts program and a frequent speaker on the topic.

Grayson also was the first President of IDT Corporation, a publicly traded billion-dollar telecommunications company. Grayson was ranked as the 12th-wealthiest member of Congress based on financial disclosure forms with a minimum net worth of $31.12 million, according to Roll Call.


Billion-dollar telecommunications company. Net worth of $31.12 million. Hmmmmmm. :think:

[rpannier]

91. Where does it say he is friends with Robert Bork or Antonin Scalia

Being a law clerk does not equate to being someone's life long friend and soul mate

The late Presaident of Korea, Kim Dae-jeong, was a liberal and a man who organzied the pro-Democracy demonstrations in Korea and went to jail for organizing against against the coup and the late Cardinal Stephen Kim Sou-hwan worked tirelessly for the poor, spoke out against the wealthy corporations and for Democracy were both close friends of Robert Novak

Also, being wealthy hardly makes you suspect either -- FDR is probably one of the wealthiest men to ever be President.

[suzie]

117. So any Democrat not named Dennis Kucinich deserves to be slandered,

because they're not Dennis? Doesn't matter if they're a progressive, Dennis is the one and the only one--so trash anyone else who might actually do something.

Growing up poor and becoming successful is somehow bad and suspicious. Right.

http://www.graysonforcongress.com/page.asp?PageId=2

[pundaint]

83. When Grayson defends his vote by saying it will save lives

I can't help but flash on an extortionist telling me that if I don't give billions more to PhRMA and Health Insurers, these poor people are going to die, and it will be my fault.

Anyone in Congress who isn't aggressively stupid knows they are trading lives for campaign contributions to keep their power. Tying to put the onus of risking the outcomes for the relatively few whose problems this bill solves, on those of us who demand real reform now, while ignoring the larger numbers not to be helped for a decade if this passes, is just bullsh*pucky.

If we return any of these cretins to office, we deserve what we get.

[RoccoR5955]

110. Grayson only gets "more done," because he's a new face

Kooch has been around the block for a while now.

[bvar22]

115. Does it have to be "one or the other"?

"I'll take a grayson over a kooch any day of the week"

Can't we have both? :shrug:

Isn't this another attempt at division....a False Choice?

[inna]

152. what a lame and ridiculous comment.

:thumbsdown:

[OHdem10]

25. Even a Conservative from Georgia, stated on CNN that the Third Party

Payer system is the way to reduce costs. He was explaining
that this Bill does not reduce costs effectively. No he is
not wanting Single Payer -- just saying it would reduce costs.

[ooglymoogly]

70. sorry wrong place

[mvd]

33. I agree

Dennis represents my goal as a progressive - I'll let him know when I get mad at him but that time has not come yet. No progressives can get these things accomplished when they are marginalized.

Proud Dennis and Obama supporter here. :patriot:

[dana_b]

34. yep!

I called and thanked him today.

[OnyxCollie]

35. Add to your list that blanket warrants for wiretapping

do not protect 4th Amendment rights.

[underseasurveyor]

37. I stand with Dennis and man do I miss Paul Wellstone.. n/t

[Greyhound]

38. Exactly. K&R. n/t

[newtothegame]

40. ...

"that the Democratic Party and American taxpayers should NOT be forced to subsidize some of the richest CEOs in history by subsidizing the HealthCare Insurance Corps and HMOs."

I'd make the argument that the American taxpayers should NOT be forced subsidize ANYBODY.

[Mithreal]

42. K&R

[Faryn Balyncd]

46. k and r

[Raine]

47. Agree nt

:thumbsup:

[pleah]

48. K&R

[dflprincess]

50. Great post Bvar

You should come up for a visit, we could have a good have a good bitch session together - and then work on certain mutual acquaintance until we convince him he should challenge Klobuchar for endorsement in 2012.

The polls showed over 70% of the people supported a strong public option (and to a lot of people that meant Medicare for All) but the House Democrats decided to vote to keep us captives of the health insurance companies and to keep those campaign contributions flowing.

There were many times Wellstone was the lone dissenting vote in the Senate and the more conservative Democrats (along with Republicans) would criticize him for that and claim he wasn't getting anything done. We need more representatives who will stand up for what is right, not fewer.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

58. What dflprincess said

You should come visit before the snow flies.

[bobbolink]

51. And do YOU realize that nowhere in your list is poverty mentioned?????

Which is why I gave up on Dennis in '04.

He abandoned me.

And you don't need to attack me.... I've explained it all over and over and over...

It's not on your list. That says it all.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

53. Well, Bobolink, he grew up poor, and whenever I heard him speak

he talked about poverty being a "weapon of mass destruction."

He's also for renegotiating trade treaties, favoring small businesses, and universal health care, three measures that can help people avoid poverty in the first place.

[bobbolink]

55. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Over and over and over, the same rationale.

Yet, it doesn't appear on any of the lists.

You know, I can't put a roof over my head with Kucinich's story.

I can't eat a nutritious meal of Kucinich's story.

POVERTY ISN'T ON ANY OF HIS LISTS, OR HIS FOLLOWER'S LIST.

Change THAT, and THEN you have an argument.

Until then, don't feed me an empty plate.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

57. But who DOES speak of poverty in the Democratic Party?

:shrug:

[bobbolink]

60. It isn't you, is it?

Gotta love that DLC rationale.

:crazy:

[proReality]

77. DK--on poverty...

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Dennis_Kucinich_Welfare_+_Poverty.htm

http://www.povertyscorecard.org/person/412/

[bobbolink]

149. yes, he writes things found on obscure places.

And most of them are OLD.

BUT, I will repeat.... poverty isn't on his list, and it isn't on the list of the person who I responded to.

I am invisible to him.

I realize that doesn't matter to you, but it matters very much to me.

[dflprincess]

61. And what Democrats are addressing poverty these days?

Edwards did, but he managed to destroy his career. Wellstone retraced Bobby Kennedy's poverty tour in 1997 - but that was largely ignored by both the media and Congress (at least he tried).

I agree with you, it should be an issue, but the Democrats abandoned it when they let Reagan take control of the message with his talk of "Welfare Queens" (for that alone he should burn in hell).

One reason they won't mention poverty or hunger in the U.S. is that they don't want us to start thinking about all that money that's being thrown away on defense contractors so the policy of endless war can continue. Sadly, nobody makes a quick buck helping poor people - the return on investment when you're helping people take years to see and American business never looks beyond the next quarter.

[ChiciB1]

108. YES, Edwards DID, & YES, He Destroyed His Career... But What Really Irks Me

about the "Edwards Thing" is that there are SOOOOO many more men who have cheated and done some pretty unsavory crap, but NONE have been so vilified as Edwards IS!!

Please don't ask me to run down the list again, I've done it before! And yes, Elizabeth had cancer and it was very selfish of John to have done what he did... BUT HE HAD THE BEST MESSAGE!!

So let the HATE begin!!! Two Kennedy's and I loved them had some VERY SERIOUS business going on too!

[dflprincess]

131. I was an Edwards supporter

and I agree that he was not the only one to pull a stunt like this. As with Clinton and the Kennedys, I really think this sort of thing is personal and not my problem.

What irks me from a strictly political point of view is, he knew this was bound to come out and he knew in today's world it would take him (and us) down.

[ChiciB1]

142. And I DO Understand THAT Part, So Thus It WAS Selfish, However, Perhaps

we could apply various standards to other politicians who have GONE off! Are we NOT thankful in some way that LIEberman never became VP?? I realize it's NOT the same thing, but would he not have affected aspects of THAT Administration if it had come down to it? We DON'T know!

Were there not "other" sitting presidents who actually had children WHILE in office? I realize Ted Kennedy's past was out front when he decided to make certain moves, and Clinton's fopahs were evident from the get-go and look how they turned out. Even while "in the WH" he didn't seem to care how his action with Monica would affect the Party, yet he still did what he did! People now LOVE HIM! Spitzer gets a free pass all the time on Dylan Ratigan program, like NOTHING happened. I like Spitzer, but HE KNEW too!

Don't think I'm condoning this, I don't at all. Sex is Sex and men sometimes think with the WRONG head (that sounds rather crass) but it IS true. I have a husband, I'm a BOOMER and while I don't mean to discuss my "bedroom" life on a blog, I DO know that given my husband's age, his wants are still evident. And to be even more blunt, there are times when I call these things "my job" to keep the Pappy Happy!

I'm SURE there wasn't a lot of it going on because of her cancer and he was "prime prey" and I DO personally think "whatzername" was no innocent and had ulterior motives. In today's world, BIRTH control is very available!

This does seem like I'm giving him a pass because I'm voicing excuses out loud. Mostly I'm saying it was terribly wrong given the circumstances, but that does NOT mean he could not have been a good president. I do KNOW what hatred has been spewed here about him, and it's IS some very STRONG HATRED... I'm just not one to hold onto grudges forever. And let's not forget, he HAS paid an enormous price. I simply feel he's paid a larger price than many, many more.

Plus, I know I try to learn from my mistakes and perhaps it took what he did for him to learn a lesson or two. And you can reply and say... yes but, NOT at the peril of THE PARTY! So much for THAT, The Party doesn't seem to be in such good shape from where I'm sitting. I KNOW I'm torn and don't know up from down most of the time these days and I'm concerned!

So enough on my navel gazing... in the end even Elizabeth may give him the boot. They BOTH went through a lot to tragedy and he SCREWED up by all that he did. I can't help that I think he HAD the best message and one never knows what may have been!

:pals: :eyes: :shrug:

[bvar22]

118. LOL.

Are you Catholic by any chance?
The Sins of Omission?

It is really hard to mention EVERYTHING in one post.
Attacking someone for all the things they didn't say really isn't fair, is it?

I do agree with you that "The Poor" and "Working Poor" have been abandoned by The "Centrist" Democratic Party.
John Edwards was the ONLY candidate who bothered to mention this ISSUE during the campaign.

[ChiciB1]

143. bvar22 Are You Asking ME If I'm Catholic... If So... WAS ONCE, Long Time

ago, left and never looked back! I have 4 sisters who still are and one who's an out and out FUNDIE!

I'm the WEIRD Whacko Leftie of the bunch!! And THEY know it and I don't care... let them do there Christian stuff elsewhere! I'm not mean about it, but I just don't do "churchy" stuff anymore!

I believe in what I can see with my eyes and feel with my hands & heart!

One more thing, my 4 Catholic sisters ARE Pro-Choice and Democrats... the other one... well not so much, she called The Idiot "her guy!" We don't talk politics with her!

[theFrankFactor]

54. Hi Five! K&R!

The Frank Factor | Liberal and Proud!.

Please click the link below to view my newest show.
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- TheFrankFactor

[L0oniX]

59. K & R ...and f*ck the Dennis haters.

[ProSense]

62. Who would tell us

this?

[change_notfinetuning]

127. Who would tell us WHAT? If you you think you have something to add, say it!

[liquid diamond]

64. unrec

I don't support backstabbers.

[dflprincess]

65. Well then you must be mad at most the Democrats in Congress

because they stabbed us in the back with the POS bill they passed.

[rpannier]

94. How is he a back stabber?

I'm curious

[winyanstaz]

67. K & R for Dennis Kucinich...

and don't forget..he is one of the very few fighting to keep women's civil rights.

[laconicsax]

69. People would just claim that Obama supports those positions.

Oh, wait. They already do.

[SandWalker1984]

71. You left out Dennis's courageous vote on the Goldstone resolution

Congressman Dennis Kucinich on November 04,2009 made the following statement on the House Floor about H. Res 867, which condemns the ‘Goldstone Report’ or the Report of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict:


“Today we journey from Operation Cast Lead to Operation Cast Doubt. Almost as serious as committing war crimes is covering up war crimes, pretending that war crimes were never committed and did not exist.


“Because behind every such deception is the nullification of humanity, the destruction of human dignity, the annihilation of the human spirit, the triumph of Orwellian thinking, the eternal prison of the dark heart of the totalitarian.

“The resolution before us today, which would reject all attempts of the Goldstone Report to fix responsibility of all parties to war crimes, including both Hamas and Israel, may as well be called the “Down is Up, Night is Day, Wrong is Right” resolution.

“Because if this Congress votes to condemn a report it has not read, concerning events it has totally ignored, about violations of law of which it is unaware, it will have brought shame to this great institution.

“How can we ever expect there to be peace in the Middle East if we tacitly approve of violations of international law and international human rights, if we look the other way, or if we close our eyes to the heartbreak of people on both sides by white-washing a legitimate investigation?

“How can we protect the people of Israel from existential threats if we hold no concern for the protection of the Palestinians, for their physical security, their right to land, their right to their own homes, their right to water, their right to sustenance, their right to freedom of movement, their right to the human security of jobs, education and health care?

“We will have peace only when the plight of both Palestinians and Israelis is brought before this House and given equal consideration in recognition of that principle that all people on this planet have a right to survive and thrive, and it is our responsibility, our duty to see that no individual, no group, no people are barred from this humble human claim.”



PS: In spite of Dennis's passionate call to vote down this resolution, Congress passed the resolution by a large, bi-partisan majority.

[tomp]

79. passed because both parties are pro war and pro war crimes. nt

[ooglymoogly]

72. Excellent post and one that is needed right now.

Dennis as always; You da man and as you have been on the right side of every issue affecting us, I would not presume to doubt you now. Most of us are very conflicted on this bill because of forced payments to the insurance thugs and Stupak just to name two. There are of course some good things but do they outweigh the bad or should i say horrendous parts of the bill that will seriously effect the outcome of the coming elections?

[tomp]

78. i eagerly look froward to the day that dennis kucinich....

...is NOT in the democratic party.

[Flaneur]

139. Really? Why?

Would you prefer a more conservative Democratic Party?

Would you prefer that he strengthen a third party?

[tomp]

150. because it will signal that progressives have realized....

...they have no true home in the democratic party and have been abused long enough (and frankly ineffective in moving the party to the left). Of course, I assume if he goes, others will follow. I think the progressive caucus would be a good start for a third party. I think the mood of the country makes this a perfect time for such a shift.

[Vidar]

81. Recommended for Dennis. Piss on Emmanuel & the DLC.

[jeanpalmer]

86. If things don't improve

I'd like to see him challenge Obama in 2012. He has all the right positions. It would just be him and Obama. No one, Dennis included, could break through Obama-Hillary in 2008. It will be totally different in 2012. If Obama sends more troops to Afghanistan, I will not vote for him. I would donate to and work for DK. He could be a Eugene McCarthy, only a better version. After 4 years of what we've seen so far, Democrats will be looking for a real Democrat. DK is the man.

[dreamnightwind]

92. Me too

I seriously think we need to mount a primary challenge to Obama. Someone who speaks the truth and who has lived it. Someone whose integrity makes them an outsider and an underdog, but whose message is on target enough to come out of nowhere and overtake the too-slick, too-nuanced, too-corporate and too-DLC Obama. If such a person shows up, I'll work extra hard for them, to make up for anything I did that helped put Obama and his corporate cronies in power.

We had a real opportunity, a unique moment in time, which screamed out for real change, which had the American people actually WANTING real change, and it was squandered on another slick pretender. This is hugely damaging to the Democratic party, people don't view us as sincere, as trustworthy, as anything other than the other face of the same corporate crooks.

FWIW I did support Dennis in the primaries, only backing Obama in the general. Next time I'm not sure I could even support Obama in the general.

I'd rather someone else appeared out of nowhere, someone who has not been in politics but has lived their convictions, and who has real leadership abilities (this rules out Nader in my mind, he's an agitator not a leader). If nobody better materializes, I'd work for Dennis, absolutely.

[midnight]

88. K&R!!

[cleveramerican]

89. thats a lovely long list of pure pipe dreams

He is a self-important dope.
He put his own narrow view ahead of what is actually possible right now.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[shadowknows69]

90. About 99% of the time DK speaks for me.

[NikolaC]

93. K&R

Dennis has long been a truth teller. Whether one likes him, loves him, dislikes him, or hates him for the way that he does it he remains the same. Sad that the truth he often tells bothers so many in the party.

[dflprincess]

134. The DLC can't handle the truth!

[Chan790]

96. +1

Thanks DK!

[nxylas]

97. K&R

If only there were more Democrats like Dennis and fewer like Max Baucus.

[change_notfinetuning]

98. It's all Kucinich's fault to those who think it's a game. But it's not a game.

He was right on Iraq, right on single-payer;
Stood up for the people as Cleveland's mayor.

Right on impeachment, right on the bailout;
Unlike his party, never a sellout.

Right on manufacturing, right on free trade;
Stands up for unions and isn't afraid.

Right on immigration and securing the border;
Right about getting our priorities in order.

On most things he's right, but not presidential;
Not too well liked by the most influential.

He's on our side and not on the take,
But we keep falling for ones who are fake.

Maybe Dennis "the Vegan" Kucinich
Said if elected, he'd make us eat spinach?

If it weren't so serious, it would really be funny;
We don't want a president who's right on the money.

[bvar22]

119. Beautiful!

Pasted to my desktop.
Thanks!

[change_notfinetuning]

124. Glad you liked it. I appreciate your posts, too. Too bad we're a minority here.

[sailor65]

99. Definitely a rec

for the best man, then and now.

[Mira]

100. Very well assembled. Thank you. DK is my hero - always has been. K&R

[electropop]

101. ...He could join a party that actually has PRINCIPLES, such as Green.

Ah, if only we had a democracy...

[natrat]

102. fuck the dlc,fuck the unrec crew and fuck you agent mike

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

103. ROFLMAO! You Need Him To Tell You Those Things?

You think he's the only one that can? You really couldn't figure most of those things out yourself?

No WONDER why it's so easy for him to win favor with his base. If it weren't for him, they wouldn't even know that water was wet right?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[bonnieS]

105. I just called his office to thank him

[ChiciB1]

107. I'm SOOOOOOOOOO In Sync With You bvar22 & I'm Sooooooooo SICK

about what is happening to this country! They're trying to sell a bag of S--T wrapped up in a pretty bow, open it up and it stinks like HELL!!

What's worse is they seemingly don't even care, I won't say they don't "get it" because I'm SURE THEY DO, they just DON'T CARE! And to ALL the Rah's Rah's here who call those of us on the Left various names and try to tell us that this is just the beginning, or just wait a little longer... Well, I'm at the point where I'm saying BULLSHIT to that too!!

Getting something stuffed down your GULLET (oh, it's almost Thanksgiving) does NOT sit well with me! Anyone watching Dylan Ratigan or even some things said on Morning Joe would be a GOOD indication that many, many people are pretty well FED UP with what is going on in D.C., the Big Corps, PhRma, Insurance companies and all the other CORRUPTION screwing us to the wall!

I DON'T watch Morning Joe, but this AM before I could change the channel, there was this guy on talking about HOW GOLDMAN SACHS DESTROYED America or the economy! He wrote a book about it and I didn't catch his name (sorry) and even JOE & Company were talking about how they've never seen a President mulling over issues like he's doing! They were stating that he REALLY needs to get OUT IN FRONT of issues and TAKE A STAND! Too many people don't know WHERE he stands on too many BIG issues! AND just how many people connected with Goldman are working in this Administration??? So go ahead an tell me to "pound salt" somewhere else... I don't care... sticks & stones!!

Okay, I'm done for now, but I'm just one female person that's just HAD MY FILL!! There are "some" Democrats willing to do a little talking, but for the most part....SCREW THEM!!
:nuke: :grr:

[RoccoR5955]

109. Kucinich/Sanders 2012! K&R

For a government for, by and of WE THE PEOPLE, not them, the corporations!

[hellsbeagle]

111. K&R

[tekisui]

116. Big Fucking KNR!~ Suck it, Conservadems.

[Bryn]

120. Dennis for President

:kick:

[JDPriestly]

122. Who else would set the standard for decency and honesty and self-sacrificing service in Congress?

[Kermitt Gribble]

125. Thank you, Dennis!

And thank you, bvar22, for a great, and much needed post! K&R!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

128. Dennis, in my book, you rock! Thank you! :)

[EndElectoral]

129. Kuccinich is a Roosevelt type Democrat, not the new breed of corporate appeasers

[Ganja Ninja]

141. Exactly a traditional Democrat with a (D) not a (DLC). n/t

[ProleNoMore]

130. I Will Always Stand With Dennis Kucinich On HCR

eom

[Lautremont]

135. I'm waiting to see what Archbunker Stevens says about this before making up my mind.

[juno jones]

140. Thanks Bvar.

I've been supporting Kuchinich since a friend slapped one of his bumperstickers on his car (in IL) back in the early nineties and educated me as to who the man was.

I can symapthize with someone who is not tall or pretty enough to command respect in our ape society and Dennis's politics show both a solid liberal stance and a willingness to grow beyond his own personal bugaboos for the sake of his constituency, something I respect immensely.


Go, Dennis, go. I will support him yet again if he runs in the primary against Obama. We need a leftie out there keepin' it real.

[TheKentuckian]

146. The only problem with DK is he cultivates a following that will inevitably be turned off

and encourages those same folks to expect what isn't going to be delivered adding to their consternation. If I thought that would lead to some critical mass of grass roots support to turn the moneychangers out then I'd look at it differently but the only result I see is ever increasing disaffection from some of the people we need pulling in the right direction rather than effectively opting out.

What can be accomplished is replaced by what should be, where we are trying to get to replaces where we are, and what is best takes the place of what can be done now and the next thing you know the whole damn frame moves further to the right and the end game gets further away instead of a step closer.

I'm on board with the majority of Dennis' message but I see no way to be productive with the entire left flank centering in a place that most of the country isn't close to dealing with except in half and quarter measures. All I can see is some of the best, brightest, and most active people with the right ideas saying fuck it while the batshit right continues to steer the country their way.

Hell, if we had the hordes of people we all probably know that have already opted out in disgust or in certainty that they can't affect the system we'd be having utterly different conversations about the direction of our country and we aren't helping the situation by creating more of these people. Maybe I'm not seeing the landslide. I hope its there but if its not building then Kucinich's net effect is probably negative for the direction of the nation because he leads us to go off on the wrong path by subtraction and inadvertent disaffection.

[Prophet 451]

147. "Oil Law Benchmark"?

I must have missed that one. Got a link?

[lumberjack_jeff]

151. ... he would be a member of the Cleveland School Board. n/t