I'm tirred of being ignored as a chronically ill person

[TZ]

By BOTH sides of the hcr debate! I have a rare chronic incurable blood disorder that is related to leukemia. I need to have special treatment by the Mayo clinic and to be on an "experimental" (ie non FDA approved) drug, interferon for my disease. Its expensive about $2,000 a month. My disease is a platelet disorder where my bone marrow makes too many and they don't work right. Therefore I am at risk for stroke, heart attack, bleeding AND clots. Its a silent disease in many ways.
Well, I was diagnosed young at 35 (average age of patients is 55-60). So its very likely I may run into one of those lifetime payment caps down the road.
I also am very lucky I can still work. I had a hard enough time fighting with my current insurance company to get my coverage where it is (they fought paying my first visit to Mayo roughly about $15,000 worth of payment). Fortunately I had proof of insurance from a before, although the gap of 90 days almost made it null and void so I was able to FORCE them to pay for it. Ever since then I've had periodic bouts of fighting with them about my interferon because they wanted to see if I really need it (thank you Mayo Clinic for having my back with these bastards!!).
Right wingers don't want reform and they think that those of us who are chronically ill are freeloaders who CHOSE to make ourselves sick somehow (I've read this). Fine. Whatever idiots.
But it seems those here seem to think that unless HCR is EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT we should not accept it. Thats insensitive to people like me at the very least. THE STATUS QUO IS UNACCEPTABLE!!
Is this bill what I would like? No of course not but its a start. But the people who think that many of us WON'T benefit from losing the lifetime spending cap and the pre-exisiting condition nonsense are fools. Something has to be done.And I'm tired of being pushed to the side and told to STFU, by ANYBODY in this debate that means more to me personally than 80% of the population.
:rant:

[Tommy_Carcetti]

1. Exactly. Proudly kicked and recommended, and others should do the same.

People really are ignoring the human aspect of this debate. Anything at this point is a good start, and the further we delay because a bill may not be everything it should be, is time we cannot afford to waste.


Oh, and what got you out of the Lounge? Redskins suck I say....Rush (the band)...meh...:P

:pals:

[TZ]

5. I'm here because I'm tired of screaming my head off about this

here and elsewhere. People need to see the realities of this situation. :hi:

[Tommy_Carcetti]

9. Don't be afraid to drop the Shat on them if they don't want to listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b1a-hqvGNI

[ProleNoMore]

26. Regardless of Your Condition - The Bill Is A Bad Bill

eom

[TZ]

27. Yeah my first fuck you sick person post!

There is a lot of good stuff in this bill but obviously you don't give a damn about pre-existing conditions or COBRA benefits or lifetime caps on payment. I bet you've never had to deal with the insurance company Really wing nuts on both sides of the aisle sound quite a lot a like to me. Oh and thanks for the unrecommend! Glad you care about people...:eyes:

[ProleNoMore]

30. Presently Unemployed Without HC - The Bill Is A Bad Bill

Walk a mile in my shoes as well.

[Ikonoklast]

102. But you may get a job, with HC.

Nothing changes for TZ. She is stuck with her condition.


Your comment is foolish.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

54. Use the Shat! Use the Shat!

:)

[CreekDog]

77. The Emancipation Proclamation was a pretty bad deal too, maybe Lincoln shouldn't have done that

So should elimination of lifetime insurance caps wait for a better bill?

Should community rating wait for a better bill?

Should requires coverage of preexisting conditions wait for a better bill?

In 16 years, the time it took to get here again (and barely farther) should we turn down a better biil that's still inadequate?

We need to focus on getting the needed number of votes for the best bill possible. We see what we have now and there's not many to spare.

Does everybody wait until you see something that's good enough? How long should they wait? Until 70 million are uncovered? 100 million? Until health coverage is a luxury as rare as a yacht?

[bluescribbler]

126. The Perfect is the enemy of the Good

If Henry Ford had waited until he could build a perfect car, we would still be riding around in horse drawn carriages.

[Schema Thing]

100. Regardless of Your Legacy - This Comment Makes You A Bad Person

[dotymed]

90. We need to saturate the media

with the TRUTH about HR676. It will save Americans trillions
of $$ and INSURE EVERYONE, NO PROFIT! We are one of the only
nations who does not do this and we are the richest.  It's a
no-brainer. people first..

[dotymed]

91. The current HC(lol) bill SUCKS

It is just forcing Americans to purchase a corporate product
that doesn't even have any value. Fuck them. Demand HR676..

[TZ]

93. On the contrary. Good insurance has GREAT value

What the hell is more valuable than human life?

[eleny]

2. Polycythemia?

:hug:

[TZ]

3. Close...Essential Thrombocythemia

Polycythemia is red blood cell, white blood cell AND platelets. Mine is platelets and a little bit of white blood cells.

[eleny]

7. My mother had polycythemia, so I wondered

I forget the name of the med she took to control it. It was expensive, too, and at that time there wasn't a Medicare Part D. So she paid out of pocket each month.

[laylah]

33. TZ..

will find out tomorrow if I have the same, but then, I have Hep C from a blood transfusion during the birth of my oldest back in 1981. :hug: I wish you well.

[TZ]

37. Yikes!

But you know, actually Pegasys (interferon) that I'm on IS approved to treat Hepatitus C! So there is that.....Good luck! :hug:

[mr blur]

4. K&R

[NYC_SKP]

6. The Cult of the Ideal remains silent when faced with reality, with the face of the problem.

K and R for sharing your perspective, TZ.

:hug:

[pnwmom]

8. TZ, I understand completely where you're coming from, and I support you.

I also am frustrated with all the people who seem to be confident that THEY have escaped the natural human condition and they take such good care of themselves that THEY will never need serious health care.

The truth is, the House bill contains a number of important provisions, including the long-term extension of COBRA, the treatment of pre-existing conditions, the interim public plan for people who've already been denied insurance, and the removal of the lifetime cap, that will benefit millions of Americans immediately. Once we get a flawed, imperfect bill finally passed, then we can work on perfecting it. And the Rethugs won't be able to overturn it unless they have 60 votes against it!

[redqueen]

10. Hear hear!

No, it's not perfect... it's far from perfect.

I hate corporate welfare, but I like healthcare for citizens more.

[Gman2]

11. I would like to beat the shit outta all, including Ron Paul, that declare that all you have to do

is show up at the ER. I have heart failure, from Bushes allowing chem cos. to not divulge any hazards for 5 years etc. Now, I must depend on family charity, or die. I paid my whole working career, for dis. Now, they say, we are sorry you get a little tired at work. FUCKING ASSHOLES. This is standard. If you have a pulse, they will deny you three times. In the interim, you will die, unless you are indigent, or helped by family, in which case you will soon be indigent. I cannot get healthcare, ever. I am on med marijuana, to clear my lungs of fluid. So, I cannot get a job, even if I could keep one. If I try to get one, they will fire me, for drugs. Now they want to tax my meds. This society is FUCKED UP, and not in a good way. And certainly puts the LIE to Christian Nation.

[left coaster]

12. I empathize with your situation, TZ..

..and I too support you!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

13. Kicked. nt

[HamdenRice]

14. I agree entirely. This bill will help people like you and those in Sicko

But there are a lot of purists who don't care.

K&R

[Wapsie B]

15. Yes this is a start. Anyone who thinks we could go from the system we have today

straight to single-payer is not aware of the political realities we have to get past in order to have complete healthcare reform.
A big part of the problem is that vast fortunes have been made under the present system. Any threat to that kind of gravy train is met with staunch opposition. I mean really, some of those healthcare and insurance execs might actually have to find real productive jobs someday.

Rwingers who oppose any kind of reform do so in part out of their worship of the wealthy and clowns like the former head of United Healthcare and his billion dollar compensation package. Things like this needing proof of prior coverage needs to be abolished right along with any pre-existing conditions clauses. If private insurers would only have done the right thing in the first place reform would not be necessary.

[pundaint]

85. Political realities mean that we the electorate persist in settling for shit

It will not end until we end it. I will accept this bill if you promise to vote Congress out of office, in search of a Congress beholden to the People, as it should be.

[progressivebydesign]

16. Thank you! I wish you well. and I totally agree with you.

My Mom's life was destroyed after an insurance company refused to pay for a major hospitalization, claiming it was "pre-existing." I am paying monthly for a bare bones catastrophic policy for myself, and don't dare go to the doctor for anything that most people would go for (like the time I broke a bone in my foot) or needed counseling, because I know that as a private purchaser, they would never insure me again.

I agree with your rant. I'm tired of these purists who are living in their heads, not their hearts.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

17. The Mayo Clinic is great!

I was about to have surgery when the doctor's assistant came in and told us the insurance wasn't going to pay for it (didn't feel that it would improve my lifestyle). I was on the gurney being prepped when they did that! The Mayo Clinic fought with the insurance company and forced them to pay for my surgery.

I am so glad they support HCR!

[kickysnana]

42. Unless you have Lyme Disease.

Thousands of people have gone to Mayo when their Lyme does not respond to standard treatment. They have the most restrictive view of primary Lyme Disease. They took their money and not only did not treat them but labeled them crazy.

Tick Bite and Rash (only 50% of people have a rash and they don't make you drag in a positive sex partner if you have syphilis, Lyme's cousin they just treat you!)
Positive 2 Tier blood tests -- CD approval for Lyme tests only require tests to pick up 40% of actual Lyme. You would have a better chance flipping a coin.

If you persist they label you mentally ill. I had to help an 18 year old find a legal aid lawyer to keep him from being involuntary committed when he sought treatment from a Lyme Specialist. That doctor put him in antibiotics again and he was recovering but committment meant they would take away the antibiotics and he was down to about 90 lbs because he couldn't keep food down his gut was so severely impacted.

Many relatives have been to Mayo with truly miraculous results but on Lyme Disease they are blind, deaf and dumb.

[Generic Other]

18. K&R

Take care TZ

[Tommy_Carcetti]

19. Kicking again. Someone rec for me. nt

[KamaAina]

20. This poses a moral conundrum

What you say is the truth. And thank you for that. :yourock:

Thing is, if the Stupid Amendment stays in the bill, we could be headed back to the days of back-alley abortions -- and other women will die.

In the words of the immortal Vinnie Barbarino, "I'm so confuuuuuused!"

[TZ]

22. I know that.

And I hate that amendment with a passion. But there are so, so many people like me that need the help NOW, its hard to justify rejecting HCR on the basis of what MIGHT happen.

[clear eye]

114. Did you know that this bill will not allow you into the exchange b/c you have coverage?

Even if the coverage you have denies you essential life-or-death treatments, you will not be allowed to drop it for a differenct policy, including the public option, from the exchange. Also that the bill contains a provision that will prohibit individual states from passing additional regulations, including single payer, that would be an improvement?

That is why some progressives have been opposing this legislation. Precisely for people like you.

[TZ]

121. Let me make this clear

I am covered adequately at the moment.It is a matter of making the insurance company stick to their own rules. However if I should lose employment/coverage I'm screwed. What this bill does is make sure their are no legal loopholes for them to wiggle out of. Getting the insurance companies to do what they say they are supposed to do is half the battle here.

[clear eye]

123. I wish it did that.

It cracks down on denying signing people up for pre-existing conditions. It doesn't prohibit denial of covering particular treatments using the ruse of calling them "experimental" or for a half dozen other reasons. Again I tell you people opposed to this very bad bill are thinking of people in your and similar situations.

[Parker CA]

21. K&R a million times!!!

[supernova]

23. KnR

I totally agree with you TZ.

:hug: from a congenital heart patient.

[Mass]

24. K&R a million time.

[ProleNoMore]

25. Truly Sorry That You Have A Such Problems - Does Not Change The Fact That The Bill Is A Bad Bill

eom

[TZ]

28. .

How many people will die this year because this bill isn't good enough for you? Seriously, this sounds like the mirror image of the "I got mine and fuck everyone else" argument...I don't care that this bill might help someone somewhere, I hate it therefore its worthless!!! :sarcasm:

[ProleNoMore]

31. As Stated Above - Presently Unemployed - No HC - The Bill Is A Bad Bill

eom

[LynneSin]

38. You did read where there was consideration in place to help those unemployed

the 'fine' so to speak is more geared towards those who just say 'fuck you I ain't getting any'. Those are the people that could cost the taxpayers plenty should they find themselves in a bad medical situation and without insurance.

[wolfgangmo]

128. For me this is a bad bill

I am one of those people you would classify as saying "fuck you - I ain't getting any.

But for a different reason than you think. I am self employed. I own and run a small primary care medical clinic. I have a pre-existing condition and can't get health care for any cost. But being self employed (but taking home less than any of my employees -hey - they got families and mortgages too so I take home as little as I can so I can keep them employed despite lower revenues lately) I make too much on paper to be considered for a subsidy.

So I, am many (and I daresay most) small company owners, will be left with a simple choice, pay the fine or pay for insurance and I can afford neither.

So what do I do? My clinical director and I have decided to see if we can move the entire clinic and all employees who want to move with us to Canada, where the crime is low, the pay is higher (for the hours worked), and we all have rational health care.

I honestly feel that I have no other option. FYI - my pre-existing condition is a car accident that left me partially paralysed. The reason that I am paralysed is that my insurance company refused to pay for corrective surgery so now I live with constant pain and migraine headaches as well as general periferal neuropathy in my arms and neck.

Pardon me for saying this, but fuck America if it can't get it's shit together enough to care for it's own. This country deserves to die if it can't do that.

[Ms. Toad]

92. The unemployed will be eligible for free insurance.

(Granted, it will take until 2013 to kick in - but so do most of the other provisions.)

It is a mediocre bill. It corrects a number of things that are currently killing people, but implementation of most of those is delayed for a few years. It isn't single payer, but it is far better than the status quo.

[clear eye]

115. The unemployed will be elegible for Medicaid IF they meet Medicaid's guidelines

as to assets. Same as they have always been. Some of the guidelines are loosened a bit, but you can still be forced to sell your home before you get free healthcare. And you will still have a heck of a time finding dctors due to the low Medicaid reimbursement rates. The bill changes virtually nothing for people w/o any income.

It depends how much the insurers raise premiums between now and when 2013 whether the bill is even a small help or a complete disaster. If the proposed subsidies don't even compensate for raised rates, the bill is worse than nothing at all. Ask Tennesse which in good faith tried the universal private insurance route, and had to stop it after about a year due to runaway costs.

[Ms. Toad]

118. The subsidy is income based, not asset based.

And, as for Medicaid, my daughter was on it for 8 years. I had assets (fully disclosed) including a home, car, and savings but no income. As for finding doctors, we have had far more trouble getting coverage under our private insurance than under Medicaid.

[clear eye]

119. The subsidy has nothing to do w/ it if you have no income.

The bill expands who will be directed onto Medicaid. People w/o any income will get Medicaid, period. Look it up.

In urban centers there are usually ample #'s of Medicaid doctors, especially if you don't care about quality. In other places it's almost impossible to find one, especially specialists. Different states regulate Medicaid differently, now. A close friend of mine in NYS had to rely on Medicaid, and he could have a car, but had to spend all his disability income each month on medical care to the point of starvation and of course nothing left to maintain or fuel the car, before they would pay for medical care.

I've heard mention that this bill would tighten up Medicaid regs, and that in some circumstances will still allow states to require the sale of one's house (maybe it depends on how much equity you have in it). It would be interesting to find out if things will be made worse for people in states w/ liberal regs like yours.

[Ms. Toad]

120. Unfortunately, I don't have the brain power right now

(103 fever) to sort through the regs. It would be illogical, however, to require someone at 132.5% of poverty level to sell off all assets to get coverage - but permit someone with 133.5% of poverty level to keep their assets - and fully fund both. I suspect you would end up being eligible for the subsidy if you have too many assets to be eligible for Medicaid.

[wolfgangmo]

129. WTF is wrong with America?

It took less than 11 months for medicare to move from a concept to covering every senior in America.

And we can't get a piss poor bill implemented in less than 4 years. That is pathetic.

[truedelphi]

66. Obama has no intention of letting this type of bill

Become altered over the next several years. He wants it done, and he wants it done now, and he has already said that "I want to be the last President to have to deal with Health Care "Reform"

You'll get this precious little bill, and I am glad that it benefits someone.

However please be aware that people having a discussion on important policy matters are not trying to hurt you. We are not the insurers who have done everything they could to deny you. We are not the drug companies, whose average mark up is 2000 to 8,200 PERCENT of the cost to manufacture the drugs that you and many others need to survive.

We are not the problem. We are having a discussion, and we are really really not able to effect much in the way of change. The only "win" the progressives have had in the last ten days is Kucinich and Conyers voting against this. And their opinion changed little in a Sea of Dems turned Repugs sponsoring a bill that has always been about the Insurers continuing to make out like bandits..

So you'll get your bill. Don't worry about it.

But are we not to be allowed even our discussion??

Or do we have to shut up because those who are Rah Rah Cheerleaders for the DLC and Obama, threatening us at every turn (Support Obama today or Bush/Cheney will be back and will kill you in your sleep!)

Support this bill or else help kill WIll Pitt's wife. Support this bill or else your platelet disorder will somehow become our fault.

We are only people on a blog having a discussion. You don't need to worry about us, -- Obama doesn't worry about us, Feinstein doesn't, Lieberman doesn't, the Blue Dogs don't and the Major Insurers are partying all night long at some crazy $ 10K cover charge bar where Rahm is being bought a ton of drinkie poos.


While the good people at Goldman Sachs continue the plunder, and Main Street goes belly up.

[TZ]

75. I'm glad you think people with cancer

Going bankrupt Paying for life saving treatment is okay!is acceptable. As I said above it's not perfect but it's better than the status quo. If you don't think so you can go down knowing that you are a de facto ally pf the Repukes who don't want reform either. Way to go purists! Woohoo! Liebermann Palin in 2012!

[truedelphi]

84. My situation is this - life savings have gone away on account of

medical bankrupcy. It sucks that it happened to my household and I am glad if there are a few people who will receive some benefit from this bill, and if some people will benefit by not experiencing a major economic meltdown. But I STILL HATE THIS BILL!

Like I said in several posts today -- I am glad for anyone that will get some benefit out of this.

But the fact that we cannot even hold discussions in the blogosphere without being accused of killing off people who might need some aspect of this bill -that is just nonsense.

If you think that somehow my ranting against bad legislation makes your illness worse, or is gonna end up killing Will Pitt's wife, (in Will Pitt's case) than there is more to the story than a platelet disorder.

[Schema Thing]

101. you are one of the people who will benefit from this bill

painful as that may be, you're just going to have to deal with it.

[TZ]

104. No I think your and the others saying no one benefits from this bill

and therefore it should be killed. Is stupid and very insensitive. I'll probably die of a stroke before many here will get the legislation that they like. THATS reality!

[truedelphi]

113. Even if someone here says that NO ONE benefits, which I don't think people are saying,

How does that affect your situation?

I woke up this morning and checked it out - I am still not in the House of Representatives. I am still not in the Senate. I am not the President. Nor was I someone who had $ 30,000 to sit in at a luncheon with indutry and the President and talk about "reform."

Whether I like this bill or not, it will pass. The industry lobbyists have paid huge bundles of bucks to see it pass.

I have about as much chance of stalling this bill for a week to see that one small tiny piece of "for the better change" occur within it as I had of stopping the Iraqi War back in March 2003.

If I did have as much power as you are claiming I had, you would have no worries, as I would immediately institute:

SINGLE PAYER UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE FOR ALL!

/font color=red]

[TZ]

117. If I lose my job and insurance for 90 days...

I will NEVER get insurance again because of my pre-existing condition, therefore I will NEVER get my meds or be able to go to Mayo for treatment or even get my local monthly blood test. The bill in the house insures that I will always be eligible to be insured. Not just because I had insurance in the past.
I actually was in a bind before I got this job where another DU'er helped pay for my medication while I waited for my job's insurance to kick in/
And nobody here is saying that universal health care for all isn't desirable. Its just that its not gonna happen. Can't even get all the DEMS to agree on a public option....And the Republicans have got many convinced that NO change is better than "bad change". Sound familiar?

[truedelphi]

122. My opinion of this bill does not affect your plight.

I feel bad for your situation, but again, the fact that pre-existing conditions are used by the insurers to penalize all of us us is NOT MY FAULT.

Believe me, you are a strong person and my failing to be happy over this onerous bill does not affect you. You'll get to see this bill pass.

[TZ]

127. Not you perhaps....

But there are lots of people who are calling congress to urge them not to pass this bill. I have no faith in politicians standing up to do something thats politically unpopular.

[Vinca]

32. The bill is horrible, but it's all we've got to work with.

It is highly unlikely the single-payer I want will pass in the next hundred years, UNLESS a bill that will pass allows a few peasants into the public option. As the number of peasants increases, so does the size of the public option until one day you look around and the insurance companies are toast. A dream, to be sure, but you have to start somewhere. People like the OP need certainty they won't end up living in a box on the street when big insurance cuts them off. People like me finally have a glimpse of a chance at being able to get treatment for serious problems we can't now afford to address. If we wait for the perfect bill, we'll have a very long wait.

[TZ]

35. Yep.

I would like to think this is a starting stone. I really and truly wish we could get universal health care. But thats not happening. This bill while I admit is deeply flawed IS helpful to many and to dismiss that reality out of hand...is very very bothersome to me. People talk about political expendiency but sometimes you have to compromise in order to help...and this will help some of us.

[Raineyb]

40. More like we settled for this piece of shit because no one had the balls to actually

put on the table what was needed.

If you want 100 dollars and you'd settle for 75 you don't start bargaining at 75. You'll not only not get the 75 but you'll damn sure never get near the 100.

[Egnever]

68. Oh for fucks sake you dont even know whats in the bill

Till you educate yourself could you please STFU

[Raineyb]

124. Excuse you? Why don't you take your own worthless advice.

What I said stands as to how the Democrats negotiated this bill. They started by taking single payer off the table, started with a public option and now we have this "public option" which is neither public nor an option for most people. And people saw this coming from the get go but no one listened. And now your ignorant ass is so busy cheering for the fucking crumbs that you're getting nasty with me for explaining exactly how we came to this watered down fuckery?

You can pretend that the Democrats did their best to negotiate but that doesn't make it true.

So STFU your damn self!

[CreekDog]

78. they did have the balls...they threatened to not vote for it

The progressive caucus did.

Then the votes from the blue dogs weren't there except for the bare minimum with the Stupak Amendment, awful as it is.

So progressives had their bluff called and the thing is if nothing passed the freaking blue dogs didn't give a crap.

And people like Barbara Lee, Lynn Woolsey and Raul Grijalva voted for this because a lot of people benefit, even if not enough of them.

If this process ends, we get shit, TZ gets shit, we lose.

You think we lost Saturday night? If this falls apart, you ain't seen nothing yet. Let's see how easy single payer iss to pass with 40 less House Dems?

Yes, it takes balls to discount that, but it does not take wisdom.

[Raineyb]

125. We're getting shit now or has that not been noticed?

4 years? A public option that's neither public nor an option for most people? Sure more people can qualify for medicaid AFTER they've disposed of all their assets. So you still have to bankrupt yourself to get health insurance. Oh and there's still that pesky 4% who STILL won't be covered. But I guess they don't matter either. They're not worth fighting for because any piece of shit is better than nothing? I don't see anyone volunteering to be part of that 4% either. And let's not forget forced purchasing from for profit health insurance companies. They don that in MA right? How's that working out? That's right, it's not! But hey let's celebrate, because THIS is just what we voted for. Everything is just dandy!

If this passes you do realize they have no intention of revisiting it right?

[prolesunited]

51. +1

[Odin2005]

29. K&R

[quiet.american]

34. TZ, thanks for speaking up. I hear you loud & clear! nt

[LynneSin]

36. TZ just stop it - common sense doesn't fit well here in GD

We should all demand HCR to be rejected if it isn't 110% perfect - best we just stick with the old flawed system where folks are basically screwn if they aren't 110% healthy

:grr: (and a :sarcasm: for those who didn't figure out that's what I'm doing)

We will never EVER get healthcare reform if we demand it be perfect. This plan currently very close to being passed isn't a perfect bill, but it is way better than what we have right now. Time and again I, a decided pro-choice democrat, has said to pull out the Abortion amendment. I would hate to see this bill tank because of something that probably shouldn't have been in there in the first place.

There are too many people out there that need this bill and as you can read from longtime DUer TZ - she is one of the lucky ones who has managed without it but her and many many many many many more will benefit once passed.

And edit note: this isn't the last time we'll ever visit healthcare reform. We've got a strong foundation with what the current HCR provides us; however, this house is not built yet. Baby steps!

[TheKentuckian]

39. K&R I'm tired of the pretending that folks like yourself aren't real live people

That can be helped now rather than at some unspecified and hoped for future day. I can understand that some may feel that the bill is getting to toxic or will be ineffective but the railings about corporate give a ways seem shrill and self important in the face of real people going without care or dying because we don't like who is processing claims or whatever.

Yelling bad bill only has so much meaning. Bad in contrast to reality or what is hoped for? Seldom if ever do I see a real case made that this or the HELP bill are actually worse than the status quo. That's the debate not agonizing over what should be. The question of good or bad is simply will the people be better off under the current system or under the proposal or maybe even more crucially, if a person gets really sick under which system are they more likely to get quality care.

People with insurance are 40% more likely to live for a reason.

[wolfgangmo]

130. My concern is not with the people this bill will help.

It is with people like me who get to choose between keeping my company open and not getting isurance and paying the fine, or closing it and getting insurance that I won't be able to afford because I will then soon become homeless.

The situation with many small business owners like myself is that we cannot afford to get medical insurance, but on paper we make too much to be able to qualify for the subsidy. I can either close up shop, fire a bunch of necessary employees, or ignore the reality of having had to cut my take home to mortgage plus food plus utilities and then cutting back on the food and utilities. I take home less now than any of my employees yet on paper I look like I make more.

So I will likely have to either fire someone to be able to afford to pay for insurance, or fire someone in order to afford to pay the fine. Great fucking choice.

And I still won't get insurance that will be worth a crap. I run a medical clinic (small, community, and catering to those the system has forgotten) and I can tell you that by leaving the private insurance companies in charge they will offer coverage that is not worth the paper it is written on for coverage and will reject claims at a rate no one on the planet has seen or concieved of.

The shit storm is about to start. This bill is just like the patriot act - window dressing for the plebes and a cash bonus for the cronies of those in power.

But I'm glad that you will get what you need. I own a medical clinic and I can't get insurance now due to a pre-existing condition that only surgery will fix and my insurance company told me to go fuck myself. I had a small window of time before the nerve damage was permanent and they denied me. Now I am permanently disabled.

Fuck all private insurance companies. This never would have happened in a civilized country. The USA is a 3rd world rat hole waiting to happen.

[Demeter]

41. Bet This Bill Screws You First, TZ

and not because I want to win the bet, but because that's the whole point of the exercise. This is not a health care bill. It is an insurance company bill.

What you want and need isn't in here, guaranteed. And if by some accident you do find some relief, no matter how small, they will amend it out in the next go around.

[TZ]

43. Funny thats what my rightie friends tell me.

That I'm going to lose my insurance. Nope. I have a group insurance plan that will not change underneath this bill. What will happen is that my now nice plan won't be able to drop me after years of paying about 30,000 per year (I figure thats what I'm costing right now) for 10+ years. If I do lose my job I won't have to worry about scrambling to get a plan within x numbers of days or become uninsurable with a pre-exisiting condition. What I think this bill might not do, is hold down very much the yearly cost increases. That is troublesome. But as I am single I can still afford the many out of pocket expenses I incurr monthly at the moment.

I will say that after bludgeoning and fighting for a long time with my carrier they now pretty much give me excellent coverage (I've made sure there are no loopholes)..My last trip to Mayo cost me $70 out of pocket for medical expenses.

[Demeter]

44. Your Rightie Friends Know Whereof They Speak

After all, it's their people that are writing it.

Wish you the best of luck. You are going to need it. In fact, we all are.

This damn bill will keep lawyers in pinstripes for decades, as well, if it has the misfortune to pass.

[Bette Noir]

47. What a nasty thing to say.

Are you always this pleasant, or do you have a special dislike for sick people?

[Demeter]

59. Truth Has No Bias

It isn't good or bad, nasty or nice. Deal with it.

[TZ]

64. And the truth is

This bill WILL help some people! You can't seem to see that! Some people on here are as short sighted as any Republican!

[Demeter]

67. I Didn't Know You Cared So Much About Aetna!

Bless you!

[Egnever]

70. You are making it very clear though that you dont care about enyone but them.

else you would worry less about any crumbs they get and (if you actualy read the bill you would realize they dont get much if anything) worry more about the millions it would help.

[TZ]

74. You know if your thought I give a fuck

About the insurance companies you are pretty idiotic! I've had more than my fair share of problems if you didn't notice! However I do care abot the thousands of sick people that will be helped by this which you have made abundantly clear you DO NOT. Politics before compassion. I wonder who else thinks like that...hmmm

[Egnever]

69. The truth is

This bill will help millions of people.

[LanternWaste]

73. However the opinions

"Truth Has No Bias..."

However the opinions and subjective analysis of posters do...

[Demeter]

63. The Scorpion and the Frog

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back.

The frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?"

The scorpion says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."

[wolfgangmo]

131. I deal with health insurance companies all the time.

I would sooner put that scorpion down my pants and next to my block and tackle than turn my back on an insurance employee.

[cornermouse]

45. Since you've got a rare illness, have you asked your doctor

whether there are currently any studies by the pharmaceutical company/companies that you might be able to participate in, in order to keep getting the medicine? That was the only thing that saved us when the insurance company dumped my child.

[TZ]

46. I am now getting my meds okay, at least till next spring

However I gave Mayo the okay to use my medical data for research purposes. I'm betting the data they collect off me ( and the meds are working really well at this point) will help patients like me down the road...

[Bette Noir]

48. Best of luck to you.

[cornermouse]

49. I know my child's meds worked just fine.

Good luck.

[happy2bhere]

50. Clearly this bill is not perfect but it will help the least among us

I am happy for you and millions of other Americans.

Aren't we liberals/progressives/democrats because we care about people other than ourselves.

When I took a look at the calculations by quiet american
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6964544
...I realized just how many poor people this will help. Is everyone rich on this site or what? There are millions of Americans with no health care, unemployed, getting sicker by the day with stress and worry...many people have lost their homes and are out on the streets because they had no health care and were screwed by hospital costs.


This is a giveaway to the insurance companies!!! I agree but SO WHAT! We've wasted trillions on war, given trillions away to bankers so they could have better bonuses....this is the first time we actually get something for all the money wasted. It is sure as hell a lot better than the shit sandwich they have been giving us.

[DesertFlower]

52. K&R. nt

[WilliamPitt]

53. (((hug)))

:toast:

[Cha]

55. I'm so sorry for your condition, TZ..

but, thank you so much for speaking up for yourself! :hug:

[DesertFlower]

56. someone told me that the mayo clinic

does not take medicare.

[uriel1972]

57. It's why I'm no longer an anarchist

waiting for the system to fail. I need my insulin, my glassess, my anti-psychotics/anti-depressants and at least ten other meds a day. I don't like what some pharmas do but I need them to stay alive. I can't afford to be a purist. I am fortunate to be in a country where everybody is covered and am amazed by people here who complain.

I am astounded by these people who are so blinded by their perfect choice that they fail to see the people being ground under the wheel. I'm sorry for you prole (and I don't necessarilly include you in that former category) that you are unemployed and have no cover and I can see why you are bitterly dissappointed, but that does not mean there aren't some positives in this bill.

I guess it's the lesser of two evils argument again. The important thing about the argument is there are two options and neither is good so what do you choose? For some it is sticking with the greater evil while waiting for the unicorn of mythical fairness to come along and fart out a good choice. Sorry, but the people on the sharp end of the deal don't have time to wait for that. It's a start and things can be added or changed later on as long as the start is there.

[Orrex]

58. K and R, though for the record I wasn't ignoring you because you're chronically ill.

But rather because of all of that obscene poetry you've been posting lately.

[grantcart]

61. lol everyone is a critic lol

[TZ]

65. And it's all minty fresh too!

:rofl:

[Number23]

60. This is EASILY the 15th post I've seen from DUers who are sick or who have children/spouses

grandchildren etc. who have said almost the EXACT SAME THING.

This sentence is so profound, it bears repeating:

THE STATUS QUO IS UNACCEPTABLE!!
Is this bill what I would like? No of course not but its a start. But the people who think that many of us WON'T benefit from losing the lifetime spending cap and the pre-exisiting condition nonsense are fools.

I am thrilled to kick and rec this. And I wish that I could do so much more. I don't know how many times I've seen posts from people here saying "NO reform is better than this reform." Fools indeed.

[Rozlee]

62. I'm so sorry for all your problems, TZ

It's bad enough to have a life threatening disease, it's worse to be afraid of your life-giving care being discontinued by heartless bean counting insurance thugs. I'm 100% disabled from an illness, neuro-Bechet's, that I bought back as a souvenir from the Persian Gulf. Just my medications would cost a civilian >1,100 a month. That's not counting frequent visits to neurologists, eye specialists, and a cadre of other specialists. But, the VA pays for it all under a single-payer system (and no Death Book, Fux News). This is why I endorse single payer. If we had Medicare for all, you and every other American would have the security of having their illnesses treated without the fear always hanging over you that your care would end at the whim of insurance tyrants.

[elizfeelinggreat]

71. k&r

[Egnever]

72. Well said !

And thanks for sharing your story. Like you this bill is not everything I could have wanted. But its light years ahead of what we have now. My only hope is that the Senate doesnt screw it up too much.

[TZ]

76. This is the kind of ignorance people with pre-existing conditions

are up agaisnt:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/09/armey-pig-eat/


This is why as flawed as this bill might be, its better than what the Repukes want!

[Ms. Toad]

96. Ooh..he hit two of the pre-existing conditions in my family

My spouse has diabetes. Her weight has always been in the BMI range for normal weight and exercises several times a week. Hardly eating like a pig.

My 19 year old daughter has an inflamed liver. She has had one day of drinking in her life (following her first semester exams before she knew she had a liver condition). It is an autoimmune disorder, and the care for that condition costs around $60,000 a year.

Perhaps Mr. Armey needs an earful from me.

[Skittles]

79. TZ, we are not insensitive to people like you

but the fact is, we COULD have and SHOULD have done BETTER

[Juche]

80. The pre-existing condition clause has to go

Fewer and fewer employers cover health care. I think in 1993 around 75% did. By 2000 it was 66%. Now it is something like 57%. And that number will keep drawing.

Those of us who do not get insurance via work have to buy it privately, where pre-existing conditions are not covered. There are some state plans, but they are not perfect.

I have seriously considered moving to one of the 5 states that do not allow insurance companies to discriminate against those with pre-existing conditions. Vermont is one, I forget the others.

My condition is not severe, but it is still pre-existing.

[Ms. Toad]

98. Until this plan kicks in,

Just make sure you have continuous coverage (no gap of more than 63 days). If you do that, you have guaranteed issue and pre-existing condition coverage under HIPAA. It WILL be expensive - but it is available.

[Alcibiades]

81. There are two sorts of people

those who have been screwed by the insurance industry and those who have not yet been screwed by the insurance industry. We hit our catastrophic insurance in February, and will hit it in February of every year from now on, forever. Our current system bites. I worry that my wife will become too sick to work and will lose her federal employee health coverage, because that's the only thing keeping her alive.

I support, and always have supported, single-payer universal health care. I'll take this bill anyway.

[Kind of Blue]

82. Thank you, TZ. You speak for a lot of us!

It's definitely making those chronically ill wait for a better bill that may come in the future, instead of working with this one and definitely continue the fight. Continued good luck to you for your good employment.
KnR.

[ThisThreadIsSatire]

83. Thank you and best wishes... and

I agree. It would be wrong to cut off our noses to spite our faces.

If all we get from this is what you mention, it's still the most important improvement to the system since Medicare.

NOT ACCEPTING AS MUCH AS WE CAN GET AND TAKING NOTHING INSTEAD IS GIVING THE RUSH LIMBAUGHS, GLENN BECKS, MICHELE BACHMANNS, JOHN BOEHNERS AND THE REST OF THEM EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT.

Fuck that...

[LeftishBrit]

86. k&r

[Politicub]

87. So many on DU on focussing on what this bill doesn't do rather than what it does

As others have pointed out numerous time in this thread, this bill may mean life or death to millions of people.

I'm sorry about your condition, and I encourage everyone who supports this bill to call their senators -- I'm calling mine in GA although I know there's a snowballs chance in hell that they will support it -- to register my opinion. And, I phoned and wrote my rep to thank him for his courage in voting for the house bill.

For the perfectionists, I love what Paul Begala said in the WaPo op-ed on Saturday -- paraphrasing, but this bill is part of a movement and it's not a monument. Meaning that it can and will be amended as time goes by like social security and medicare.

I don't know if the people who want all or nothing are trust fund recipients or what, but something in their lives gives them the luxury of demanding this bill go down in flames while they wait for something perfect. But perfection will never come from our political process, so they are just naively stomping their feet.

[Vidar]

88. K&R

[Deep13]

89. The status quo is immoral and wasteful.

You know, you'd be cured if only you accepted JA-A-AY-zuss!

:hide:

[joeybee12]

94. Aw, sorry I didn't know about this!

:grouphug:

[BeachBaby]

95. Amen.

Well done, girlfriend. I happily kick and rec. (((HUG)))

[Joe Chi Minh]

97. Deleted ny JCM as not helpful one way or the other.

[Ms. Toad]

99. You're singing the same song I've been singing

My daughter will shortly age out of our insurance, and will be unable to afford the high risk insurance available to her (currently at $14,000 a year). Her illness, with no unexpected expenses, costs around $60,000 a year. Someone with the same condition just had his 3rd liver transplant, at age at 23, over the weekend. Liver transplants are ultimately the only treatment - but the disease can come back and destroy the new liver. I think she'll overrun any of the current lifetime caps.

This bill will make it possible for her to obtain insurance.

I would prefer single payer - but I am not willing to live with the status quo until someone musters up the courage to try health care reform again in another decade or so.

[TZ]

105. dupe

[TZ]

106. double dupe

[TZ]

107. triple dupe. stupid computer.

[TZ]

108. Yep. I have never met anyone with chronic problems that

doesn't want single payer, but unfortunately too many people (healthy people it would seem) are so dead set agaisnt it, we won't get it in this climate...I hope someday..but now...not going to happen.

[Meshuga]

103. Too bad I can no longer recommend this post.

But here it is some noise for your rant:

:applause:

[bullwinkle428]

109. Still pisses me off that you won't be able to get help until 2013,

with regards to the details of this bill!

[TZ]

110. Well, as long as I hold on to my job

which is pretty secure fortunately, I'm okay for the time being! The worst of the fighting was when I started here as a FTE in Feb 2008.
Thanks for the concern though!:)

[Ms. Toad]

112. Agreed.

My daughter is supposed to graduate in 2012, and will be off our insurance at that time (although it looks as if it may take longer since she's really struggling with a full time load...and then we have the full time student issue).

I have to look at the immediate changes regarding dependents on parents' insurance to see if that change is immediate - and isn't dependent on full time student status (or if it is, if it has an exception for medically based part time status). I read all the original bills, but H1N1 hit me about the time this one came out and I haven't had the opportunity (or the brain power) to read through the details.

[hunter]

111. Yes, yes, THE STATUS QUO IS UNACCEPTABLE!!

I'm kicking this for everyone who has been kicked around by the insurance industry, and everyone who might be, even the assholes who believe they will never get sick or have an accident that sends them over the falls into insurance hell. Bad things can happen to anyone. Stuff can fall out of the sky and leave you forever exiled from the land of the insurable.

You know what really makes me angry? When a person is making a superhuman effort just to get out of bed in the morning because some accident or illness took them down and that's when the insurance companies try to have them thrown off the bus, that's when they expect them to understand and follow all the crap rules in the fine print they signed in on. And even then the insurance companies still keep trying to shed expensive chronically ill customers.

You must be made of very strong stuff, TZ. :hug:

And hey all you fools who don't think it could happen to you, STFU!!! Just STFU.

[pdxmom]

116. Thank you, TZ. You speak for a lot of us. My husband is an amputee

with chronic osteomyelitis. Every year, it's something else. We have good coverage through work, but last year, I was scared to death that he was going to have to quit work, due to the uncontrolled infection he had. He just couldn't walk. Between the doctor visits, the meds, the surgeries and prostheses, I wait for the next shoe to drop constantly.

If we can get a lifting of lifetime caps and get rid of those damned pre-existing conditions, maybe I'll sleep better on those nights when he's having a flare-up...not worry so much about having to make some horrendous choice that might otherwise be our only choice.

[mdmc]

132. me too