Republicans pander to the base, Democrats piss on the base

[DainBramaged]

I'm tired of the bullshit. From Harry Reid getting outmaneuvered in the Senate to Joe LIEberman and his spew, to the Stupak's in Congress, we the base are ignored and basically the butt of jokes. They think the blogosphere is quaint, and they don't even talk to us while taking money from the corporations.


Maybe we should start using the same tactics the teabaggers use and get their attention. I'm sick of it.

[Odin2005]

1. They don't get that the "quaint" Netroots is the future.

It will come back to bite them in the ass.

[RKP5637]

2. I feel we were used for our vote... and now out of sight out of mind! n/t

[emulatorloo]

3. Stupak is an idiot and so are the 30ish Dems who voted with him. Liebermann isn't a Dem,

he is the Independent Senator from the State of Aetna.

Practically speaking I think Stupak was some kind of show put on for the Fundies of his District. I seriously doubt that it will make it into the final bill -- it is too ridiculous.

If you want to teabag Stupak, I am all for it.

[John Q. Citizen]

21. Many are from Aetna. Obama's co-chair of his campaign, his first choice for HHS, is a

multimillionaire who makes his money lobbying for the insurance companies.

There is a reason this whole "reform" has such tight and predetermined boundaries.

And it has nothing to do with what the people of this country want and everything to do with what the insurance industry wants.

Lieberman is the perfect choice to blame it on, since Baucus already did his part.

And they doesn't want Obama and Daschle getting the blame certainly.

[BzaDem]

4. Republicans are in the minority. Democrats are in the majority.

I assure you that should the Republicans retake the majority they will be doing plenty of pissing on their base. Their base hated Medicare Part D, the fact that their tax cuts had to expire, etc.

[ixion]

5. so you're saying it's okay to piss on your base because of that?

uh, okay. :eyes:

[BzaDem]

12. I'm saying it always happens and will continue to happen whether the base likes it or not.

This is not something that is new. It is very easy to support your base in the opposition, but much harder when you are in the majority and need to get votes from Democrats that have widely different views.

[PHIMG]

14. Imagine the Republicans passing a bill with a pro-choice amendment.

Oh that won't happen! Because they have party discipline.

Assholes like Rham Emmanuel created a victim mentality in our party where we can't win by being ourselves, we have to pretend to be republicans and tolerate anti-choice assholes and DLC types, inviting them in the big tent.

So now we have a Congressional Majority that isn't really a majority -- we let a bunch of traitors in and they hold a veto over legislation. We can't even kick out someone who trashed a sitting president of our own party.

If we keep going this way we are we'll have one party in the USA - Democrats who water down legislation so much to avoid a blue dog veto that the ending bill isn't much better than what a moderate republican party would have managed.

Party activists like us have a mission - to move the party left while there is time or get really pissed off when a third party peels off 10-15% of our support.

[BzaDem]

17. Imagine the Republicans making their tax cuts expire in 2010.

Oh wait. Hmmmmm.

[PHIMG]

18. Tax cuts aided and abetted by fake Democrat Blue Dogs in the Senate.

That happened because enough DLC blue dogs joined with the Republicans to pass that bill. If we had party discipline we wouldn't have had any tax cuts.

[BzaDem]

22. Um, they controlled the House, the Senate, and the presidency.

If they had party discipline, they would have been able to pass their tax cuts and make them permanent without a single Democratic vote.

[PHIMG]

23. Uh...why did they need Democratic votes then?

If they had the votes...they woudln't have needed any Democratic votes.

If the Democrats were disciplined they wouldn't have got any Democratic votes.

Are you saying that the Democrats are more disciplined then the Republicans? Really? :rofl:

[BzaDem]

25. (facepalm) That is THE POINT. Republicans were not NEARLY as disciplined in the majority

as you say they were.

[PHIMG]

33. Oh really? How many Republicans voted against Bush's agenda?

I would bet a lot less than voted against a robust public option.

Which member of the Republican caucus in the Senate endorsed Barrack Obama? Right none.

The Republicans are a lot more disciplined than the Democrats. We'll let anyone hang a D next to their name no matter what they believe and that's why we get watered down bills that put corporate wealthfare first.

So please tell me that you think the Democrats are more disciplined than the Republicans. I'd love to see you make that claim.

[Lorien]

38. They catered to their base when they had it all in 2001

they still do, which is why their entire party has been pushed to the far Right.

"Given the choice between a Republican and a Democrat who acts like one, the people will choose the Republican every time". True 50 years ago, just as true today.

[Richardo]

6. GOP = 12 state party

That's what you get when you pander to your base.

Not that I prefer the golden shower, I don't, and I'm pretty fed up with the Dems pandering to the GOP's base. That makes even LESS sense than pandering to their own base.

By the same token, I wouldn't WANT the Dems pandering to a lot of the single-issue, purist deep-thinkers around here.

[KharmaTrain]

7. The More They "Pander" The More Elections They Lose...

"We" wouldn't have had any debate yet any move towards healthcare reform is the Democrats set purity tests and would have Mooselini one 73 year old heartbeat from power. Seems some either weren't around or remember when the Democrats played those games...it led to the "Raygun Revolution" and then made it possible for booosh to steal the 2000 elections.

So you'd like a unitary executive...a rule by fiat where the separation of powers means nothing? Got problems with who "we" have in Congress, take it up with those who voted for those who don't filter through your litmus test...there's lots of elections next year. Sorry I prefer a party that reaches out to all...not just those who walk the same walk. Diversity enabled Democrats to become the majority party...or would you prefer to be "pure" and be totally irrelevant like the teabaggers?

[DainBramaged]

9. Bipartisanship has gotten us NOWHERE, and has NOTHING to do with diversity

talk about running off the road.......Republicans, are waging a successful blocking campaign against Obama nominees and you are worried about diversity? by the time they're done, it will be 2011 and our nominees will still be waiting for votes.

[KharmaTrain]

11. Diversity Wins Elections...

That means making this party exclusive and accepting of those in many different areas and interests. Got a problem with Stupak...take it up with the folks in Northern Michigan who elected him...support a more Progressive candidate in the upcoming primary. Got a problem with Joementum? Make his vote irrelevant by working to elect more Progressive Democrats to the Senate and push them for leadership change. It's called democracy...far preferable to what we endured for the past 8 years.

Wanna go into a real ditch? Play the same "purity" games the rushpublicans are doing...they'll be more than happy for you to do that. I guess you'd prefer no healthcare reform at all...let the corporates win. That's fine...there are many here who see politics as the art of the possible, not an all or nothing game.

[DainBramaged]

15. Thanks to Bush-Lite, diversity has run off the road

I guess women's rights are now secondary? Take it up with Stupak? I am beyond speechless.

[KharmaTrain]

19. And What Reproductive Rights Would Be Left With a Powerless Democratic Party?

I share a lot of frustrations on how slow change is going and those who are doing their best to obstruct or take advantage of how polarized things are. And you're hoping to polarize even more? Think about it. If you advocate the implosion of the Democratic party, be assured you're enabling those who will and have done far greater damage to many causes you hold important.

Again...these politicians have their bases...people who elect them, fund them and support them. They should be the target of your anger...or does being a minority "pure" party and standing up for "principal" worth letting the GOOP fill the vacuum.

Don't take it up with Stupak...take it up with the people who voted him into office. I know democracy is a real pisser. Or would you prefer unitary executive?

[DainBramaged]

35. I imagine the repeal of DADT and DOMA are now shit out of luck too

becaue the BASE was PROMISED action on these issues, along with the closing of GITMO, etc. And the BASE rolled out the votes and money to get Obama elected. But it's ok to ignore those issues now.......

[Lorien]

39. They lose elections because of their RESULTS. People vote for the GOP

because it "Stands for something". They only vote against them when that "something" bites them in the ass.

[PHIMG]

8. Bingo! The teabaggers allow us to be more outspoken.

I'm so sick of defending the party from people who want to split off and go third party. I'm losing hope that the big league bloggers are correct that the party can be moved to the left from within. Looking at history it seems it has always taken a serious third party challenge to get a major party to move. Now might be the time.

I voted for BO in the primary and the general and yet I'm praying for a serious primary challenger for Obama from the left.

If the party doesn't move to the left then then the country is screwed.

Rumors of the DLC's death are greatly exaggerated.

[Mari333]

10. will they 'get it' in 2010 when they lose?

or in 2012? do they think that we are bound to them now because of Bush? and we will accept Bush-lite? they will be sorely surprised.

[BzaDem]

13. They will wait for the base to come around. There's nothing like the reality of Republican control

to get voters to turn out like never before. The Democratic politicans don't really have to worry (and most are in safe districts and won't lose anyway). The ones that lose will get fine jobs after Congress. It is really up to how long progressive voters want to allow Republicans to control Congress.

[ThomCat]

20. Yes, they have already arranged fine jobs after Congress

with the companies that have bribed them, so they don't need to worry about what voters think. They have neutered the threat of voters.

But, yes, the really jaded view is that this is good because voters will come around and support the politicians no matter how bad the politicians are, and party loyalty to bad politicians is all that is really important. :eyes:

[BzaDem]

26. Just because you think the view is jaded doesn't make the view untrue.

They will come around. Voting is an exercise in picking the lesser of two evils by definition. Any deviation from this is corrected once people in denial about this see the consequences of their actions. (See Nader's vote share dropping by a factor of 10 from 2000-2004 after we nominated an arguably more conservative candidate.)

[ThomCat]

29. That is true, but people who approve of voting for the lessor of

two evils are still approving of evil.

No matter what bad choice we are confined to in the end, we should always fight for better choices, non-evil choices until the bitter end. Anything evil should be something stomached at the last moment out of desperation, not from the beginning with relish.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

30. It's all "Yay Team!" with you guys, isn't it?

Principles mean nothing.

We're all supposed to take one (no, make that two, no, on second thought, make that three or four or five or N-1...) for the Team, even if what the Team wants hurts us or goes counter to some of our deeply held convictions.

We're all supposed to shut up and take it even when the the president on Our Team is doing or continuing some of the things that the president on Their Team did, things that we condemned because the Their Team was doing them. Only now that Our Team is in charge, everything they do is automatically OK.

This isn't a sports match or a chess game in which their is no moral superiority on one side or the other.

This is real life. Real people are being hurt by these policies.

Get that through your amoral, game-playing heads.

[ThomCat]

36. +1

[Kansas Wyatt]

27. The Republican Lite (Democratic) Party will...

Be scratching their heads after the 2010 & 2012 Elections trying to figure out why people would vote against their best interests.

They think they are so much more intelligent, than the Working People that they need votes from, and think the Working People can be tricked with their Chump Change Token Efforts, while Corporate America is given the Treasury.

Well Democratic Politicians, their minions, their agents, and their cheerleaders.... You have your shiny college degree and think you are so much smarter than Working People, but you are actually the dumbest fucking people in the country. But that's okay to you, because you got yours... And ignorance is bliss.

[BzaDem]

28. They might be in 2010. But once all the people who do vote against their best interests

see the consequences of their actions, they will come roaring back to the polls in 2012.

[Kansas Wyatt]

31. To choose between a Republican Lite or a Republican candidate?

People now see that both Parties are in bed with Corporate America, and the People will never win.

What you are saying sounds like a plot to try to turn out voters in 2012 for a Presidential Election for more 'hope.' Keep thinking that, because Obama & Democrats, Inc. had their chance and have shown the American People what they are all about, and it isn't 'change.'

Hmm... Vote for only 'hope' or stay home and get the same. Well you've got the eggs, so keep on counting those chickens.
Get used to scratching your head in bewilderment.

[Orsino]

16. Oh, the GOP pisses on its base.

They are simply blessed with a base that's into water sports.

[cali]

24. you're kidding right? The republicans in the Congress are so pissing off the base

that they're only a hair short of a full fledged civil war. How did you miss that.

[DainBramaged]

32. No the Republicans are giving the base a voice, and the base is in control

We who are he base of the Democratic party are the forgotten ones.

[Better Today]

34. Calling the right-wing nutties the Repub base is only accurate because

all reasonable Repubs have bailed the party. I'm not sure we can or should embrace the idea that the more extreme of each party is "the base" of each.

And, no, I don't think the left extreme is as outrageous or disgusting as the right extreme; nonetheless neither should be considered the base of a party.

[NoPasaran]

37. As we watch the GOP circle the drain, it's clear the Democrats have the right strategy

[Lorien]

40. Replacing them as the New Right? That wasn't the "Change" we voted for. nt

[aSpeckofDust]

41. and that strategy is.. become the Gop? n/t