Are the Kucinich Defenders going to support efforts to defeat the bill in the Senate?

[Orrex]

If the bill is such an abomination, and if the mighty Dennis Kucinich was among the few wise and pure enough to see it, will you support efforts to defeat the bill in the Senate?

If yes, then does that include supporting Lieberman in his filibuster?

If not, then why not?

[LWolf]

1. Dupe.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6968596

[Orrex]

4. Uh, no.

That other thread asked a specific question about Lieberman's planned filibuster.

My question is about more general efforts to oppose the bill, including but not limited to supporting Joe's filibuster.

[LWolf]

5. My answer is the same.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6968596#6968651

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6968596#6968734

[Orrex]

8. Neither of those answers is really an answer, though

The question is very simple: if you oppose the bill, then do you support efforts to defeat it in the Senate?

[geek tragedy]

2. They already sided with the Teabaggers and Michelle Bachmann.

So, there's no doubt that they're going to throw in with Tom Coburn and LIEberman.

[AllentownJake]

13. My President might side with Dick Cheney on Afghanistan by that twisted logic

:rofl:

[geek tragedy]

23. Dick Cheney doesn't have a vote.

Votes are very much a "with us or against us" moment.

If you line up with AHIP and Bachmann, you're against us.

[AllentownJake]

24. Well then

You are for us or you are against us.

[geek tragedy]

42. When the matter comes to a vote, yes.

Michelle Bachmann or Alan Grayson--your choice.

[Ozymanithrax]

3. Only if they remain consistent in their efforts to destroy Health Care Reform.

For most of these people, if it isn't the bill they want, they don't want anyone to have it.

[joeycola]

6. Women kicked under the bus. Long live health care "reform"!!

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[Orrex]

7. Kucinich was happy to kick women under the bus for years

But this fact is conveniently overlooked by his acolytes while praising this prinnpled giant of a man.

[MoJoWorkin]

9. Don't bring up uncomfortable facts. DK has NO flaws, and has NEVER been wrong.

He is a superhero to his followers. LOL

[joeycola]

26. Pay attention, I am not talking about DK. This is about women and reproductive

rights that the House has been happy to kick under the bus.

[berni_mccoy]

10. Oooo.... SNAP! Yes, people here forget DK was a Pro-Lifer.

[AllentownJake]

11. and Barack Obama was vehemently against mandates

in the primaries :shrug:

[berni_mccoy]

14. You realize how desperate that makes you look... comparing the issue of mandates to pro-choice

Mandates have a function in healthcare reform. An important one. They are necessary to make the system work. Even the French system has a mandate.

But changing your position on Choice? That's a fundamental opportunistic change made for a power grab.

[AllentownJake]

15. People evolve over the course of their political life

When the President does it is an evolving world view, when Dennis does it he is a craven politician.

Heck Bill Clinton just came out in support of gay marriage this year after signing DOMA.

[berni_mccoy]

16. And Dennis continues to evolve... siding with Republicans and Lieberman. Got it.

[AllentownJake]

17. As does the President

supporting FISA and the Patriot Act.

[Mari333]

19. did so many of the anti Kucinich crowd side with the Dems when

he voted against the Iraq war, when soooo many Dems voted with the republicans FOR it??
No, this is about their pom pom waving for Obama. thats all.

[AllentownJake]

21. Give me an O....

[Orrex]

45. That's a little forward, don't you think?

I mean, I hardly know you, and you didn't even buy me dinner.

[Orrex]

27. Nothing to do with pom-poms at all. In fact, that's close to a non sequitur.

I don't think that anyone now on DU praised Dems for voting in favor of the war.

[AllentownJake]

28. Appears to be quite a few cheerleading escalation

[JVS]

29. Yeah, I'm being told that being against stupid wars is now for teabaggers.

Who the hell wants to be for stupid wars?

[AllentownJake]

31. Some people never learned critical thinking skills

Quite a few on this thread...there are even people saying you are with us or against us, not realizing they are parotting the boy king from 2001-2009.

[Orrex]

32. Not quite sure what you're getting at

A vote about the wars as they stand today is very different from a vote to initiate either of those wars in years past.

I do not support escalation of either war, but I also accept that reality can leave us with no good alternatives.

[AllentownJake]

33. I support the reality that with out a draft

and sending an enormous amount of troops to either situation you are just throwing American kids into cannon fodder for a lost cause.

[Orrex]

34. I'm sure it's exactly that simple.

Short of reinstating the draft, do you support an immediate withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan, and to hell with the consequences?


I'm not saying that I have the answer, but it seems to me that we have a responsibility to clean up our mess over there (Karzai included).

[AllentownJake]

35. We did it in Vietnam

Now they are making our T-shirts.

[Orrex]

37. I'm sure it's exactly that simple.

Look how well Afghanistan turned out the last time we abandoned them after a protracted period of military decimation.

[AllentownJake]

39. Yes and I'm sure 34000 more American troops will turn them into

a western democracy.

[Orrex]

40. If I'd made any argument along those lines, perhaps your post would make sense.

[redqueen]

41. On another thread, someone said it was weak support that forced the allowance of Stupak's amendment.

And that in that way, Kucinich was party responsible for it being in the bill.

Seems like kind of a stretch, but I'm definitely curious about the details now.

His conversion from anti-choice to pro-choice came suspiciously close to his run for President... so if there's any chance that he still harbors anti-choice sentiments, well... anyway it's just interesting to me.

[adamuu]

12. K&R for getting a grip already n/t

[JVS]

18. I think the bill sucks. I don't see it as a step forward. If the pukes kill it I'll count that...

as them being the broken clock that happens to be right at the moment, although if it hadn't been for the republicans and the right wing of our party who tries to emulate and appease them the bill probably wouldn't be the heinous piece of shit it is

[WeDidIt]

20. "It's not exactly perfect, so I want it to fail! WAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!"

People with Kucinich's attitude should never be involved in politics.

[AllentownJake]

22. It is a steaming pile of shit masquerading as reform

How about that as a more apt description.

[WeDidIt]

36. Tell that to people with pre-existing conditions

:eyes:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

49. I have preexisting conditions.

This bill says I could not be discriminated against by insurance companies. It says nothing about how much I could be charged by those companies. Suppose they want to charge me more than I could afford? Big help that is. As for the public option, the CBO has said coverage may actually be more than private insurance. What then? What if I don't qualify for a subsidy?

Any bill that mandates insurance but does not open a serious pubic option to every American is bullshit.

[KharmaTrain]

25. You've Proved Your Point Well My Friend...

I'm just grateful DK's vote didn't matter.

:hi:

[Mari333]

30. either way, the insurance companies win

pass or defeat.

[whatchamacallit]

38. wtf was there a fax?

Why are you guys going after him so hard? Something doesn't smell right...

[redqueen]

43. It's cute how you expected people to be serious.

At least a couple had the integrity to come out and admit they support the filibuster.

Not many though. Kinda sad, really.

[Autumn]

44. Depends on what is in the bill n/t

[Hell Hath No Fury]

46. If it's a shit bill --

that is little more than a giveaway to the insurance industry, then yes I hope they do kill it. :shrug:

[TZ]

48. Thanks for the Fuck you sick person post!

I just love you guys!:sarcasm:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

50. I am one of those people, dumbass.

Multiple preexisting conditions, 100% uninsurable at any cost if I am not covered by an employer.

Mandatory insurance purchase + no price control + no access to a serious public opion by every Amercian = bull.

Plain and simple.

[TZ]

47. Dennis Kucinich is playing political football with MY health.

And I fucking resent him everybit as much as I resent that asshole Liebermann.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6970101