If I'm required to purchase health insurance, I will refuse.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I don't really know what they're planning. But I know that I'm not going to pay to get fucked over. Regardless of what the law is. If they want to put me in jail for it, they're welcome to do so (maybe I'll get some health problems taken care of while I'm there).

In my state, they've made it the law that you have to buy car insurance if you drive. Whether or not it's a good law, it's made very little difference in the number of people who buy car insurance. People don't think the government has the right to tell them what to buy (besides, if people are so damned worried about getting hit by an uninsured motorist, they should just buy uninsured motorist coverage); and besides, many just can't afford it. Nobody bothered to try to make it less expensive for low-income people (and meanwhile, rich people can just put up a bond and never have to pay a thing.)

Regardless of whether it just means I'm irresponsible, I've refused to buy car insurance for years since the law went into effect, and I will refuse to buy health insurance if that becomes the law of the land as well.

I'm sure I won't be the only one. Good luck enforcing the law, the jails are already full.

[annabanana]

1. Do you withhold your war & torture enabling taxes? . . n/t

[FlyingSquirrel]

10. Not directly

But I cheat whenever possible. I won't be owing any taxes this year probably, because I'm FUCKING POOR.

[HereSince1628]

2. They don't want you in jail, they want to confiscate your assets

jails are expensive, they'll parole people onto the streets, but before the masters let them out, they'll make sure none of them have any property.

[cali]

5. the tax on those who refuse to insure themselves is relatively small.

[HereSince1628]

8. Step one of the tax is small, step 2 is relatively huge.

If you can't, or won't pay the fine, as seems what the OP is arguing, then step 2 is potentially crushing. Five years in prison and 1/4 of a million dollars is relatively large.


And what will that do? It will create a new version of an old class that was expunged from US society--the serf. Indebted to the ruling class, working for survival and trapped in that class by punishing interest rates.

If these provisions pass the conference committee, as yeoman we have fucked ourselves right well.

[FlyingSquirrel]

26. I will leave the country, I really will. My mom's moving to Point Roberts anyway

Good enough reason to move to Canada, it'll be easier to visit.

[BzaDem]

46. I guess that would be the point.

That way, no American can be financially devastated by your actions. The law is serving its purpose (albeit somewhat indirectly).

[FlyingSquirrel]

51. lol

Good night

[mainer]

88. Like the don't require you to pay into insurance in Canada?

You do know that's how it works, don't you?

[Sebastian Doyle]

89. How's the border crossing at Point Roberts these days?

Last time I was there was in early September 2001, just before that which will not be named, so it was effortless getting in and out of there, and not a ridiculous delay like the Blaine crossing.

Hope it's still the same... I would think it would be a pain in the ass to live there otherwise.

[Atman]

64. "Potentially" but not actually.

It simply becomes a tax issue. Provide proof of insurance with your return just as you provide a 1099 to prove income. If you don't, you pay (or you are 'fined'). If you still outright refuse to pay, it will become an IRS issue, not a law enforcement issue. And I don't know if you've had to deal with the IRS before, but they actually tend to be fairly nice people just coin' their jobs. Part of that job is working out payment plans or other settlements, NOT "sending people to jail." That is a nonsensical scare tactic. I understand your passion, I strongly dislike the mandate, too. But spreading this bullshit doesn't help anyone on either side of the debate.

.

[FlyingSquirrel]

11. Well I have no assets.

That was easy.

[HereSince1628]

17. I thought you said you had a car.

But, no matter, because you will get a bill, and no bankruptcy will clear it. You will live the life of a serf your earnings garnished until you work out your release or you will live on the run as a vagabond.

[FlyingSquirrel]

22. I get paid under the table. My car's worth $100

[HereSince1628]

36. This is more and more looking like pubescent histrionics

A ready story, a contrarian answer for everything.

Cool. You got me.

[FlyingSquirrel]

37. Just stating facts. But if you wanna buy my car for $500 that's cool.

[progressivebydesign]

83. wow. You're also cheating on your taxes? And you want us to pay for your health care, too?

WOW.. quite a piece of work.

[cali]

3. wow. you really think you're above it all.

have fun in jail. and sorry, refusing to buy car insurance is selfish and totally fucked up.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

4. You're an uninsured driver?

Good luck with that as eventually you will screw up your life and the lives of others in ways immeasurable right now. I'm afraid I will have to discount your opinion on all matters since you exhibit extremely poor judgement.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. I wouldn't pull out of my driveway without insurance

And if you hit me, my insurance company will sue you.

[quakerboy]

79. You'd think, right?

Though based on the experience of several family members, not so true, actually. They would rather apportion blame and raise your rates than really go after anyone to blame.

[proud2BlibKansan]

95. Actually they did

I was hit by an uninsured motorist twice. My insurance company went after both drivers. I got my deductible back once after the driver was ordered to pay for my damages.

[thunder rising]

7. Sooner of later you'd want to see a doctor ... too bad

[BzaDem]

9. It is a tax, so I think the penalty will be withheld from your paycheck without asking your opinion.

That tax helps pay for the reinsurance fund that reimburses insurance companies for people like you who don't have health insurance and then end up in the emergency room and/or sign up for insurance later.

So, other than going unemployed, there really isn't much you can do about it.

[FlyingSquirrel]

13. I get paid under the table.

And I think I'll keep it that way.

[BzaDem]

19. You get paid under the table, at least until the IRS charges you with felony tax evasion.

At that point, your prison wages will actually be tax free. (And, you will get free single payer healthcare.)

It is true that there isn't much the government can do to you if you like being in jail. However, most people who end up in jail quickly realize that they don't like being in jail, regardless of how much they might or might not bloviate on an Internet message board.

[FlyingSquirrel]

30. The IRS has much bigger fish to worry about.

And I'll probably claim just enough income to look believable.

[BzaDem]

33. You go right on and believe that. :)

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

20. You are really really screwing yourself

Later on in life you will wish you had Social Security, but since you and your employer did not pay into the system you won't have any. Why would you work for any employer "under the table"? ALL the advantages are for the employer. What if you get injured at work? I'm would bet your idiot employer also doesn't have workman's comp insurance.

[FlyingSquirrel]

34. I've paid into it for years

And I'm sure I'll pay into it again at some point.

[Ineeda]

12. Wow - refusing to obey the law and to be responsible.

Now, those are admirable qualities. You must be related to B*sh or Cheney.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. Your 'conscientious objection' could cause others a lot of problems

This is called being selfish and cheap.

[Javaman]

70. The OP's just another rebel without a clue. nt

[Ineeda]

56. LOL <pointing finger at foolish child stamping feet> n/t

[BzaDem]

15. As for car insurance, the next time a cop pulls you over will quickly make a believer out of you.

It is actually quite easy to enforce the car insurance mandate. You are arrested if you don't have car insurance and are pulled over, and eventually your license will be suspended. Just because you have evaded being pulled over thus far does not mean you won't have car insurance in the future after a few pull overs (whether or not you know that now).

It is a good thing the mandate is enforced. After all, the idea that responsible people should have to pay for illegal activity by irresponsible people (through uninsured motorist coverage) is pretty ridiculous.

[FlyingSquirrel]

16. I print up my own fake insurance cards.

They pass easily. Next?

[BzaDem]

24. Won't work if you ever get into an accident. At which point, I assure you, you will no longer

be driving without insurance.

[FlyingSquirrel]

28. Not true.

My wife got into an accident without insurance. The other person's insurance company tried to go after her but didn't succeed in getting a thing. But anyway I should have just left car insurance out of this, it's taking over the whole thread and it wasn't the point. The point is that I am sick of unjust laws and I won't just bow down and follow them.

[BzaDem]

31. If the cop gets called, again: I assure you will no longer be driving without insurance.

I have seen people like you. They talk just like you. 5 years later, after dealing with the consequences their actions, they are a completely changed person. Just because you can talk a good game now doesn't change that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. So your wife caused damage to another person's car and didn't pay for it

Nice.

[FlyingSquirrel]

45. It was the city's fault

I won't bother with details.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. Of course you won't go into details

LOL

[FlyingSquirrel]

55. There's really no point. They were wrong though.

They created a 2-way left turn lane, then made it illegal to turn left from it. Very clearly marked as a turn lane, then you get into it and find that it's illegal to turn (but only if you notice the sign, which is kinda hard to see on a dark stormy night across several lanes of traffic). So then it's an unsafe situation because you enter the lane, can't turn, and have to get back into traffic. They refused to just put a divider up because the merchants across the street protested. So commerce comes before safety once again. Oncoming traffic opened up a space for her to make her left turn because they were also confused and thought she had the right to turn.

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. If you had insurance your insurance company could sue the city

Of course so could you. But that would cost money. And something tells me if you had money you would be buying insurance.

[dionysus]

107. give him time to finish making up his story.. sheesh!!!

;)

[LanternWaste]

94. I imagine many people believe themselves...

I imagine many people believe themselves to have the depth of wisdom to assign the labels of just or unjust to a particular law, or policy, or even another person. I imagine many people believe themselves to be more clever, smarter, and more insightful than those around them.

I'd hazard that most of that profession of faith is just simply another self-preening and validating way to justify in ourselves those sames indictments and sins we righteously rail against when others are guilty of the same. This week (or more likely this very day), we practice those very things we admonish others for.

[slutticus]

98. I was hit by an uninsured asshole once.

I think he ended up spending more on court costs and the ticket than he would have if he had just paid for insurance.

[cali]

32. nice psycho behavior there, squirrely

[FlyingSquirrel]

35. Thanks, I'm pretty psycho.

At least today.

:crazy:

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. You're really on a roll here

You are admitting fraud now.

Smart.

[customerserviceguy]

65. They'll work until Washington does what other states do

and have barcodes on them that cops can scan into an information retrieval system. I have to admit, I never thought of printing up my own, but I've always been able to afford insurance, too.

[progressivebydesign]

84. I can't believe you're serious. You've already mentioned several laws you're breaking..

..all on a public forum. brave, lying, or dumb. You decide.

[pipoman]

85. Fraud too...have fun with buba..

[Donald Ian Rankin]

100. I sincerely hope you get caught and banned from driving. You are a criminal, plain and simple.

The reason car insurance is mandatory is *not* for your own good, it's so that if and when you hit someone and they need expensive medical care for the rest of their life, it doesn't come out of their pocket.

The fact that you clearly have no sense of responsibility, and your assertion below that "I'm not going to hit anyone, I'm a good driver" indicate that you are the kind of person who is more likely than average to hit someone seriously, making it even more important that you're able to pay for it when you do.

I very much hope you - and anyone else who commits similar offences - get caught, severely fined and banned from driving.

[dionysus]

105. so you're an admitted criminal? dude, you're so full of crap...

:rofl:

what's next, an anti-seat belt rant?

:rofl:

[FlyingSquirrel]

18. It didn't use to be illegal.

The insurance companies lobbied for it and got it. Now it's illegal and they get loads of new customers to pad their fucking CEO vacations, and the poor get poorer. It's called "insurance" for a reason - people had the choice whether they wanted to take the chance of having an accident that was their fault, or not. If they did, they paid for their mistake. But it wasn't forced on them.

[BzaDem]

29. The fact that it wasn't illegal was the problem. And it was corrected by making it illegal.

The entire point of the law is that if people have an accident and don't have insurance, they don't pay for it. Sure, they go bankrupt and lose their assets, but even that would not necessarily make the person who they hit whole.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. I lobbied for the law where I lived at the time

And I'm not an insurance company. One of the reasons I lobbied for it was in states where insurance was mandated, rates were lower.

[mwb970]

21. I don't understand your attitude at all. Are you just being difficult?

:shrug:

[FlyingSquirrel]

23. Maybe.

[DailyGrind51]

25. Hey, go right ahead and refuse, if you want to!

[Xenotime]

74. Exactly. I'm not going to stand next to you if you decide to break the law.

I don't think this administration will tolerate rebellion.

[Vidar]

27. More power to you!

[geek tragedy]

39. Then if you get sick or injured, don't you dare seek medical help.

Freeloader.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geek tragedy]

49. What, everyone else should have to pay for medical care but you?

What makes you so special?

[BzaDem]

50. Looks like the poster hit a nerve.

You can dish, but you can't take.

[FlyingSquirrel]

53. I'm not dishing. All I've been doing is taking in this thread.

'night

[BzaDem]

54. #47 is not dishing?

I guess we're just not speaking the same language.

[FlyingSquirrel]

57. Nope, it's responding to a personal attack.

Did I attack that person first? Have I attacked ANYONE here first?

[Javaman]

73. when you start a thread with questionable reasoning, then go

on to display questionable ethics, then you better be able to defend yourself, otherwise you will be accused of dishing it out and not being able to take it.

And if you are of the belief that the rest of the thinking world will automatically accept your belief system, they are you deluding yourself.

Yelling fire in a DU forum, will not win you friends.

[emulatorloo]

41. "I've refused to buy car insurance for years" - What city do you live in? Because I want to avoid

roads there.

============

[FlyingSquirrel]

48. I'm a great fucking driver. I don't need insurance.

[KittyWampus]

58. only a fool thinks Car Insurance is all about THEIR driving prowess. Accident liability is

divided up between the two drivers.

Your irresponsibility means you are a societal menace.

[emulatorloo]

61. Accidents happen, even to the best drivers. That is why they call them "Accidents"

That being said, I think you might need to head over to your local school and take a citizenship class.

It isn't all about you -- there are other people out there, who will have to live with the consequences of your actions.

[Javaman]

69. well after reading the OP follow up answers, it appears as if it is "all about the OP".

a very ego driven sort, is he not?

LOL

Cheers!

[Javaman]

91. Says you. nt

[dionysus]

109. you're not a very good liar.

:rofl:

[TZ]

72. +1000

Think about all the people this guy will fuck over if he hits them. But hey, he's being a hero, right?

[pampango]

44. Repubs could use you. They're against a "socialist" health care system that forces you to do things.

Better we stay with the "health care for those that want it and can afford it" system? Would you prefer a Canadian system of health insurance coverage which uses taxes to pay for health care. (You're still paying for it, just indirectly.)

[sendero]

59. People who cannot afford auto insurance..

... cannot afford to drive. Sorry.

[stray cat]

62. You should be able to opt out of medical care by signing a do not treat order

Hospitals and doctors should be allowed to refuse you medical care unless you pay up front - and maybe we can have the freedom to opt out of any medical care by signing a "do not treat order"

[ItNerd4life]

101. Interesting concept, a living will kind of does this

A living will can say what you don't want to be treated for.

[customerserviceguy]

63. The enforcement mechanisms are different

In Washington, where you live (and I lived for 37 out of the last 40 years), the only way you get busted for not having car insurance is if you get pulled over by the cops. Drive 100% of the time like an upstanding citizen, and make sure you don't have any lights burn out, and you can get away with it as long as you have.

Here in NY, you won't get your registration renewed unless your insurance company files something with the state, and if you ever lapse on a premium payment, they'll automatically fink you out to the government. Get busted for a traffic ticket, and you've automatically got "driving an unregistered vehicle" tacked on to the charges.

With mandatory health care purchasing, the whole system will be administered by the IRS. Drop your coverage with Big Insurance, and they'll tell the Feds, and you'll automatically be socked with the penalty on your taxes. File "incorrectly" (there'll be a little box to check where you certify that you are a good little American, and have bought health insurance) and you may have "filing a false return" added to the charges.

Unless you plan on living in the shadows, and making your income off of non-traceable means of self-employment, you're not going to be able to duck this one.

[Odin2005]

66. It's a tax.

:eyes:

[Xenotime]

75. Stop calling it a tax.

We don't need to add fuel to pugs arguments.

[Atman]

67. I'm reccing this because I this this type of silliness needs to be read.

I don't think a rec means "agreement," just that it is worthy of a read, just so we as DUers can really get a handle on how ridiculous this is.

.

[Mari333]

68. the pom pom people who support the insurance co giveaway

are out in force today. obama and his admin can do no wrong, evidently.

[SammyWinstonJack]

76. +1 nt

[TZ]

77. and those of us whose very life depends on eliminating

the pre-exisiting /lifetime spendingcaps are out in force too. But again, we don't matter to you all apparantly. Should I go die quietly in a corner for you?

[closeupready]

78. Yep, and by the way, I'm curious - here we go raising taxes on the middle class

by 2.5% of income - has he raised taxes on those making over $250,000? I can't honestly recall if he has or hasn't, but I can't think of any tax hikes ATM. ??

[mullard12ax7]

71. Exactly, nobody knows "what they're really planning"

Although you can bet it's going to be criminal because the same criminal "health" corporations are involved.

[harun]

80. I don't like the mandate either but if you read the bill there are solid

limits in there about how much of a percentage of your income they can charge you for the insurance. If someone doesn't make much money they won't pay much.

It sucks I agree and the dem's shouldn't have put in mandates but I think the benefits this bill gives us in terms of the possibility of future change outweigh the negative of the mandates.

[madinmaryland]

81. So when you get sick or are injured, you will be able to pay for everything

yourself? Good luck. Don't expect me to bail you out then.

[progressivebydesign]

82. then I can pay for your sick ass when you need medical care???

not exactly fair to the taxpayers... or are you planning to just go behind a bush and die next time you need medical care??? Why should I pay for your health care if you obvious have enough money for a computer, and other non-essentials???

[MattNC]

86. A mandate is necessary

if you're going to end discrimination for pre-existing conditions, no? Otherwise, people would just wait and buy insurance until they got sick, then drop it when they're healthy again. Unless I'm missing something?

[Beacho]

87. I don't know if anyone addressed this

And I'm asking because I'm not sure. But if you work a regular job wouldn't it be deducted from your check through deductions like FICA? If that's the case, I don't think there's much you can do about it if you want to work.

[prolesunited]

90. He stated he works under the table

Apparently, he's above all laws. :eyes:

[Beacho]

92. Thanks

Well, working 'under the table' is illegal in most circumstances. So that would be a problem right there. But leaving that aside, he or she wouldn't fall under those rules anyway, since the rule is based on income. Right?

[prolesunited]

93. Stop bring logic into this argument

It has no place here. ;-)

[Generic Other]

96. And he has zero income to report to the state of Washington

so the rest of us will pay for his benefits. I live in the state of Washington, so that means I pay for a person who also puts me in danger by driving without insurance on my roads. Talk about a sense of entitlement.

:eyes:

[dionysus]

110. don't worry, this clown is making all this shit up. he's not very good at it either.

[Zorra]

97. Requiring health insurance may be unconstitutional, depending on the requirements.

It could force people into indentured servitude.

[mainer]

102. Is Medicare indentured servitude? You're forced to pay into that

Of course, it's all done during your working years -- way before you get to benefit from it.

[optimator]

99. I'm with you

.

[proud2BlibKansan]

103. Do you not have car insurance?

[dionysus]

104. nice melodrama.

[TheKentuckian]

106. I could live with mandates if they made any sense

I'm not clear on how or why an individual is mandated to pay for something that person has no option in. Sure, I have to carry auto insurance but my work doesn't get to choose which plan I go with and I just have to initial the deduction or whatever.

If they want an employer based system then the employer should be the one with their balls on the chopping block for us not having coverage. Responsibility without authority is always a mess.

[ipaint]

108. That's not how it works.

Shit and abuse ALWAYS flows downward. If you live your life near or at the bottom and attempt to throw a handful of it back at the top (by not following a financially punishing law for example) all the perpetually confortable middle class gatekeepers for the wealthy will descend en masse to slap you back into your miserable place in society.

Laws that financially cripple people like you are written that way to be broken by people like you as an example for the better off middle and upper classes that they damn well better tow the line.


Laws that apply to those at the top, well, they don't quite have the same sting if they are ever enforced at all.