Ok, please, no flames, but is the Ft Hood shooter a terrorist?

[Archae]

By the strictest sense of the dictionary definition, I'd say he is.

Yes, he had some very deep psychological problems, but those didn't drive him to go on the shooting rampage.
His increasingly militant Islamic beliefs did.

BTW, one of the fatalities is from a town near me, Amy Krueger was from Kiel, on the border of Sheboygan, Manitowoc, and Calumet county.

Back to the shooter.
A lot of warning signs were missed. Just like the 9-11 plotters.

Now, does this justify what right-wingers are screaming for so hysterically, extra spying on Muslims, or more stringent background checks due to their religion? Absolutely not.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

1. Given the limited evidence so far that seems to be where it is pointing.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

37. How's that? What the hell are you talking about?

WHAT is terrorism, these days?

,...what evidence leads you to believe this particular act of violence falls within a "terrorist" act?

I swear,...OFF THE DEEP END to nowhere some seek to proceed.

[RobinA]

44. Terrorism These Days

is any violent act committed by a person who practices Islam.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

47. That's just idiotic.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

45. Praise of suicide bombers, trying to convert patients.

Telling other Dr's they were going to hell if they didn't convert all point to an increasingly radical view of islam. Then his reported internet activity. His targeting of people that he had no relationship with who were about to be deployed to the Middle East. That seems like a sufficient amount of evidence for me to at least suspect that his motives for this attack were religiously and politically based.

[TwilightGardener]

2. I think he was, but my definition of terrorist is anyone of any religion

or political affiliation who commits a public atrocity to make a point of some sort. Like, bombing a building, or methodically shooting up a roomful of innocent people. Doesn't necessarily involve Islam.

[Archae]

11. Agree 100%

Notice how Holy Joe LIEberman never mentions the terrorist that killed Yitzhak Rabin?

[Muttocracy]

24. yeah, I figure terrorist = one who causes terror

The VA Tech shooter comes to mind.

[HughMoran]

3. We call right-wing shooters terrorists, so therefore this fellow must also be described that way

On the other hand, right-wingers never call their shooters terrorists, so therefore they have no right in calling the latest fellow a terrorist. It all comes down to being consistent.

[aSpeckofDust]

4. Terrorist? No.. Extremist? Probably. N/t

[tblue]

5. How are you defining terrorist? And does it matter?

[havocmom]

6. No, the warning signs were that of a very desperate man trying to avoid a situation

He saw no other way out. It was not political so much as personal. It was suicide by cop, same as a lot of desperate, depressed WASPs resort to.

[virgogal]

13. Suicide by cop can occur without taking 13 others with you. This

was an act of madness.

[paulsby]

36. what complete crap

a majority of suicide by cop cases, result in ONLY the suicidee (so to speak) being injured or killed. often, they will even point an UNLOADED weapon at police, knowing that there is no possibility they will harm anybody else.

to compare this murderous piece of shit to some sad soul who decides to commit suicide by cop is one of the more ridiculous comparisons i have seen thus far.

he had PLENTY of ways out. he could have refused to go, and been sent to the brig (probably) or dishonorably discharged. he could have killed himself. he could have walked into the local donut shop and pointed an unloaded weapon at a table of cops.

he didn't

he's a piece of murderous shit, and in no way, shape or form is this analogous to suicide by cop.

[uppityperson]

7. So far, from what I've read, I'd call him mentally ill. Lots of warning signs can be missed

with mental illness also. And mental illness affects a lot of us in very unexpected ways.

[Arctic Dave]

8. No. He was not a terrorist.

No more then the Columbine kids were. What happened was a terrorizing ordeal but thats all.

[liberal_at_heart]

9. murderer that killed SPD officer is domestic terrorist

It is not getting nearly as much news as the "Muslim terrorist" that murdered the troops at Ft. Hood. It really shows just how prejudice our country is against Muslims.

[Roland99]

15. Not to mention he's suspected in the arson of several police vehicles

and didn't he have IEDs prepared or underway at home?

[Archae]

19. Where was this?

I haven't heard of this, yet.

[icymist]

26. In Seattle, WA

Officer shooting suspect linked to arson, called 'domestic terrorist'
By CASEY MCNERTHNEY
SEATTLEPI.COM STAFF

The man suspected of killing a Seattle police officer Halloween night was a loner who had homemade explosives, a military assault rifle and another firearm in his modest Tukwila apartment, investigators said.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/411956_shooting08.html

[paulsby]

34. oh spare me

the reason it hasn't gotten as much press is that he killed A police officer and wounded another

hasan killed 12 (so far) and injured far more.

i live in the seattle area, and have been following the SPD shooting. this guy CLEARLY was a terrorist, especially if he is the one who firebombed the SPD cars, as it appears.

but if it bleeds it leads.

you can't compare the two incidents, without comparing the relative carnage.

if somebody plowed down 12 people and injured thirty others with a frigging CAR, it would get huge press. terrorism, religion, and all other issues aside.

[uppityperson]

40. I will agree with that.

[Teaser]

10. who cares?

He killed some people. Try him for that.

Does he need a label beyond "murderer"?

[treestar]

12. No. He's someone who went postal, like the Va Tech shooter

or Columbine or the like. If he weren't a Muslim, no one would even be considering it.

[stray cat]

27. Just like the murderer of abortion doctors, or the murderer of the army recruiters?

you are too kind to mass murderers - they are not all the innocent victims you seem to see.

[treestar]

30. Geez, that was uncalled for!

did you post this in the wrong place?

Gawd! Damn! Geez!!!!!!!!

[Roland99]

14. Mentally unstable opportunist perhaps. Terrorist, not in my humble opinion.

[snagglepuss]

16. From what I've read he sympathizes with terrorists and he has alot of hostility

but it seems to me he went postal. Are people who shoot up their workplaces terrorists?

[Horse with no Name]

17. Timothy McVeigh was the "Oklahoma City bomber"

Ted Kaczynski was "The Unabomber"
Eric Rudolph was "The Olympic Park Bomber"
I've never heard of an abortion clinic bombing being considered a terrorist attack.

Yet, Nidal Malik Hasan is being labeled a terrorist. I am NOT going to defend what he did...but labeling him a terrorist is going to be used politically to justify our further advancement of our occupation in Afghanistan.

[geckosfeet]

18. I think he was trying to commit suicide. He missed. Wish he would have just shot himself.

He may be Muslim but he is also in the United States army.

But is he a a terrorist? Is every other mass killer a terrorist? McVeigh?

What about the nut who shot the police officers in PA?

What about the crazy dude who shot people in the Unitarian church?

How about the guy who killed the doctor as he went to church?

What about the guy who killed all those people in NY state?

What about the guy in Florida the same day as the Ft. Hood killer?

This guy is Muslim and he is in the army. It seems like he was under a lot of stress and cracked. There seems to be a lot of that going around.

The jury is out as to whether or not he is linked to terrorism. Either way he is going away for a long long time if the army doesn't hang him.

[TwilightGardener]

22. Methodically shooting 43 people, and indeed CHASING one of the wounded

outside to finish the job, is not a suicide attempt. In fact, Hasan could have shot himself, but did not.

[geckosfeet]

31. He knew, without a doubt, that he would likely be killed. It is only by some

twisted stroke of luck that he was not.

In fact, the army will probably hang him.

[TwilightGardener]

33. I have no doubt he assumed he would be killed. I just don't think that was his

primary motive.

[Obamanaut]

20. Yes. His actions resulted in the shutting down of a very large

Army base.

Local law enforcement and FBI were involved.

Friends, relatives, persons on the base intimidated and fearful.

News media and internet access inundated with that incident, and only that incident.

Death and injury as result of his actions.

Pretty much domestic terrorism, IMO.

[imdjh]

21. Technically, don't his comrades have to claim responsibility for it to be terrorism?

[stray cat]

28. Your kidding right?

[imdjh]

42. No, why?

My thought is that to qualify as terrorism, rather than some individual act of vengeance or statement, he would have to have some means of making that statement clear, ie a manifesto mailed to the local newspaper or comrades claiming credit for his actions.

[blogslut]

23. Those psychological problems absolutely drove him

The catalyst for his actions is incidental. This man is no different than Timothy McVeigh in that he was a rage-filled person looking for a target. McVeigh wanted to kill people so he manufactured an enemy. I suspect Hasan also wanted to kill and therefore sought out extremist philosophies that re-enforced his bloodlust.

[stray cat]

25. The same I guess for the murderer of the abortion doctor

[blogslut]

39. I think so

n/t

[moondust]

29. Was he trying to create fear and panic

and generally disrupt the workings of society using indiscriminate terrorist tactics? Not that I know of. Probably does not fit the strict definition of terrorism.

[cliffordu]

32. Doesn't matter. That label will sell huge with the idiots....they'll holler terra terra terra

as long as it sells like porn.

[DefenseLawyer]

35. If it turns out he had a political or military agenda then yes.

If he was just a guy who snapped and started shooting then no. By my way of thinking anyway.

[KamaAina]

38. By the strictest definition of terrorism, he is NOT.

"Terrorism" means an attack against a civilian, not a military target.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

46. So the attacks in Iraq against Blackwater contractors are terrorism?

[KamaAina]

50. Actually, no. that would be insurgency.

:-)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

52. There were civilians killed at Ft. Hood, so that would make it terrorism right?

[Swamp Rat]

51. No, that would be self-defense.

Blackwater contractors are the terrorists.

[backscatter712]

41. No, this was not an action of an organized terrorist group.

This was one unhinged individual that went postal.

[Skittles]

43. yes

[baldguy]

48. Terrorism is a POLITICAL weapon.

What was Hasan's political motive? Has any terrorist org - known or unknown - claimed responsability?

[Archae]

49. Terrorism is a religious weapon as well.

"Convert or die!"
(Even Jews did this to Romans.)

"Death to infidels!"

"Kill a queer for Jesus!"
(Hey, I heard a guy yell this at some guys comng out of a bar years ago.)

[baldguy]

53. The origin of terrorism can stem from many sources.

Religion is just one possibility. People have many different beliefs - economic, social, racial, ethnic and religious - that create tensions which can be exploited for their power. But that power doesn't need to be political.

When that power is used for politics, it tends to be divisive & distasteful. But that doesn't mean it's terrorism. When political power - any power is used to breed violence, it becomes terrorism. And a well-developed political terrorist movement - like Islamic-motivated terrorism - has a clear political objective.

Again, what was Hasan's political motive?

[Snazzy]

54. You mention the dictionary def

(legal and other dictionary defs will differ a bit, but Websters is pretty close to an accepted english understanding I'd say).

Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈter-ər-ˌi-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1795

: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion

— ter·ror·ist \-ər-ist\ adjective or noun

— ter·ror·is·tic \ˌter-ər-ˈis-tik\ adjective

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrorism

To understand that you need to understand coercion and terror of course. You get a piece of both if you click terror at Webster's:

Main Entry: ter·ror
Pronunciation: \ˈter-ər, ˈte-rər\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French terrour, from Latin terror, from terrēre to frighten; akin to Greek trein to be afraid, flee, tremein to tremble — more at tremble
Date: 14th century

1 : a state of intense fear
2 a : one that inspires fear : scourge b : a frightening aspect <the terrors of invasion> c : a cause of anxiety : worry d : an appalling person or thing; especially : brat
3 : reign of terror
4 : violent or destructive acts (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands <insurrection and revolutionary terror>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terror

(4) is where we are of course.

So, with the definition here, you are really asking: Did Maj. Nidal Malik Hassan intimidate a population or government into granting their demands (or attempt to do so)?

What demands?

If he merely thought of demands, or we merely suspect he had demands, that's not the same as him making some explicit. Stating them, not us discovering them as an under-text.

Lots of questions remain certainly and investigation is ongoing, but without that statement of intent, you have a sociopathic mass murderer but not a terrorist.

For example, is finding that semi-anonymous internet post by him sufficient? I don't think so, he didn't say he intended to attack in sympathy with Al-Q, the Taliban, etc., to further their political goals vs. the US people & its gov. It's just suggested, sub-text, that he may be a fellow traveler. And even that is colored by hindsight. (He was a Muslim shrink treating combat PTSD, he would have a complicated take on our wars regardless.)

And on the other hand, this is still developing and there may be more to it. for example:

Authorities scrutinize links between Fort Hood suspect, imam said to back al-Qaeda

By Spencer S. Hsu and Carrie Johnson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, November 9, 2009

Federal investigators are examining possible links between Fort Hood shooting suspect Maj. Nidal M. Hasan and an American-born imam who U.S. authorities say has become a supporter and leading promoter of al-Qaeda since leaving a Northern Virginia mosque, officials said.

....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/08/AR2009110818405_pf.html

[New Dawn]

55. Was Cho a terrorist?

[thepeopleunited]

56. Terrorist, doubtful. Terrist, absolutely.

This week's minute of hate brought to you by the makers of Magic Bullets, the bullets that magically incriminate the official patsy.

[LostInAnomie]

57. Motive is the key.

If he murdered those people to further the political goals of Muslim extremists, then he is a terrorist.

If he murdered those people because of some kind of mental disturbance that was exacerbated by religious zealotry but without political goals, then he isn't a terrorist.