Nidal Malik Hasan is a terrorist

[itsrobert]

True or False.

[bbinacan]

1. Other

Too early to know and leaning in no direction.

[Lost-in-FL]

2. IBTL!!

[itsrobert]

3. Why would a poll be locked?

I don't get it.

[Lost-in-FL]

6. I don't see a poll on Dr Tiller's murderer. Have you? Would you call him a terrorist too? nt

[itsrobert]

8. In a heartbeat

But how do you know how I voted in this poll?

[Lost-in-FL]

9. I don't. Do I need to know? nt

[Lost-in-FL]

21. Would you call the shooter in Orlando (Thursday news) also a terrorist? nt

[itsrobert]

34. I think it was a copycat from the media attention of Ft Hood

But I would call it a terrorist act also.

[Edweird]

41. That guy went 'postal'. It was all about being fired 2 years ago.

If you do a little reading, it will become evident that Hasan was doing something altogether different.

[Lost-in-FL]

46. Yes... like having a middle eastern name. nt

[Edweird]

50. "At least six months ago, Hasan came to the attention of law enforcement officials

because of Internet postings about suicide bombings and other threats, including posts that equated suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades.

Investigators had not determined for certain whether Hasan was the author of the posting, and a formal investigation had not been opened before the shooting, said law enforcement officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss the case."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/05/fort-hood-shoo ...

A former classmate has said Hasan was a "vociferous opponent of the war" and "viewed the war against terror" as a "war against Islam." Dr. Val Finnell, who attended a master's in public health program in 2007-2008 at Uniformed Services University with Hasan, said he told classmates he was
"a Muslim first and an American second."

"In retrospect, I'm not surprised he did it," Finnell said. "I had real questions about what his priorities were, what his beliefs were."

http://news.aol.com/article/soldiers-open-fire-at-fort -...

"The system is not doing what it's supposed to do," said Dr. Val Finnell, who complained to administrators at a military university about what he considered Hasan's "anti-American" rants. "He at least should have been confronted about these beliefs, told to cease and desist, and to shape up or ship out."

http://www.timesonline.com/bct_news/news_details/articl ...

[Lost-in-FL]

52. "Investigators had not determined for certain whether Hasan was the author of the posting,"

I took that from your post.


But if an UNBIASED INVESTIGATION concludes that HE did post that, and until all of the pieces are tied together pointing that he is just another religious fundie terrorist, then I make a judgement call.

Is this unreasonable?

[JANdad]

74. OH Bullshit!

[MadBadger]

24. Yes, and so do most on DU. Domestic Terrorism is still terrorism.

[greennina]

4. Attacking him like this because of his religion is wrong!

Why did you post this crap?

[itsrobert]

5. Huh, who's attacking his religion?

All religions are fucked up if you ask me.

[proteus_lives]

7. Explain.

He murdered 12 people. How his the OP attacking him for his religion?

[stray cat]

45. SO it was wrong for DU to attack the conservative who murdered an abortion dr?

[Lost-in-FL]

49. No.

:evilgrin:

[barbtries]

10. people like lieberman want to go there

because it instills fear in the people. if he's a terrorist, he's a homegrown terrorist. an american citizen.

[Lost-in-FL]

14. +1, nt

[Dreamer Tatum]

11. If Tiller's murderer is a terrorist, Hasan is, too, without question nt

[itsrobert]

17. Exactly, I took a lot of flak from freinds for calling Tiller's killer a terrorist

n/t

[EFerrari]

19. Tiller's murderer stalked not only his victim but abortion clinics.

This guy came unglued at work.

How are they the same behavior?

[Dreamer Tatum]

23. Came unglued and just happened to be packing serious firepower?

Mighty convenient.

Sorry, terrorist.

[Lost-in-FL]

26. Would you call the shooter in Orlando (Thursday news) also a terrorist? nt

[Dreamer Tatum]

27. Not sure. Would have to think that one over. nt

[Lost-in-FL]

29. Is that an affirmation? nt

[Dreamer Tatum]

30. What does "not sure" mean to you?

I'd have to think about it.

I'd need to know if he had the same views as Hasan, for one thing.

[Lost-in-FL]

42. If he was a fundie like Dr Tiller's murderer and there is proof of it, yes he is a terrorist...

just like Tim McVeigh was and Mohammed Atta et. al.

I'll rather wait before I make judgement given that it could also be related to a psychotic episode.

[EFerrari]

37. No, I don't mean he didn't plan it.

But Tiller's killer really did stalk him and he had an avocation harassing abortion clinics.

This guy just seems to have gone quietly psychotic -- although, I also question that. Where were the people in his working group or his supervisors while he was losing it? I've lived with a person who has psychotic episodes. They are predictable. :shrug:

[Edweird]

12. Too early to call it a lock, but all signs point to 'True'

[WeDidIt]

13. None of the above

Just plain too early to tell not leaning either way.

[Paulie]

15. This is a workplace violence event, not a terrorist one

That the media of all stripes (I first heard about this on NPR, they were horrible with their speculation, I mean reporting) drop the T word, when this is an unfortunately stereotypical guy at work gets a gun and shoots up his employers place; except this time his employer handed out the guns.

There are no facts yet, and the story changed so many time in the first couple days, it's like JFK, we'll never know the truth. sigh.

[itsrobert]

20. His employer didn't hand him the murder weapon

The army doesn't issue the weapon he used. All signs point to him getting the weapon without aid of the government/military.

[Dreamer Tatum]

28. So if Mohammed Atta was an AA baggage handler

9/11 would have been a case of a disgruntled worker?

[Lost-in-FL]

33. You are equating a middle eastern name with terrorism.

Try again.

Wouldn't you think it would be proper not to speculate before a motive is found?

[Dreamer Tatum]

36. No, I'm not at all.

What if Tiller's murderer was the janitor at the abortion clinic? Could that recast the murder as workplace-related only?

Doubt it.

[Edweird]

16. double post

[EFerrari]

18. Do we have any evidence whatsoever that he meant to inspire terror

by his action?

[Edweird]

31. I think firing over 100 rounds in close quarters killing 13 people and wounding 30 covers that.

[EFerrari]

39. Well, that's what he did. Is there any evidence that by doing that

he meant to instill fear?

It's not the same thing at all.

I'm sure people did feel fear and most likely still feel fear. (And for the people on that base, my heart goes out to them. They will be living with this for a long, long time and they will need all the support we can muster.)

But that's different than someone planning a terrorist activity with the purpose of making people afraid.

[Dreamer Tatum]

32. Hey, yeah. Maybe he was trying to get everyone to look at his shiny new guns. nt

[Prometheus Bound]

22. Perhaps the OP could define terrorism for purposes of this poll.

[itsrobert]

25. The state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization

n/t

[Prometheus Bound]

35. With that definition, my vote is definitely NO.

[Hansel]

68. self delete nt

[Obamanaut]

38. The actions of this one man shut down one of the largest Army bases,

involved the local law enforcement and the FBI,

brought nearly all the news outlets to a standstill whilst they 'reported' on this incident,

occupied a large percentage of all forum and blog bandwidth,

intimidated and terrified the friends and relatives of the military personnel involved as well as those that may not have even been nearby,

caused the President to stop what he was doing in order to make a statement,

yes - this was an act of terrorism.

spelling edit

[Dreamer Tatum]

40. Let's just cut through the bullshit right now

and settle it once and for all:

If Hasan was a Southern Baptist fundie xtain blahblahblah with Hannity books on his nightstand, would the vast majority of DU call him a terrorist and dryly suggest he be sent to GITMO?

Based on the posts from the Tiller murder, the answer is a very confident YES.

[petronius]

61. Here's how you cut through the bullshit: terrorism is a motive, not a specific act

The murderer of Dr. Tiller had a clear political motive and the intent to cause terror - therefore, he is a terrorist.

Hasan's motive is as yet unknown - therefore, we can't say yet if he a terrorist or not.

[Dreamer Tatum]

63. Unless he was a fundie, you mean. nt

[petronius]

66. Unless who was a fundie? Hasan?

He could be a fundie, of the Islamic variety, that's part of what we don't know.

When we do know - that, among other things - then we can decide if the T word fits or not...

[WeDidIt]

43. I'm not convinced

I see absolutely no evidence this was terrorism. It could have been, but again, there is absolutely no evidence it wasn't just one mentally disturbed person in a workplace shooting incident just like the incident in Florida on Friday.

I'll give it time and wait for evidence before making any judgements because, quite frankly, rushing to judgement on this seems pretty damned bigoted to me.

[Obamanaut]

51. No evidence you say? Intimidation, fear, blanket coverage by

broadcast media AND everything (well, a lot anyway) on the internet, additional law enforcement both local and FBI, shut down an Army base.

In Mother Earth's name, how the hell to you define terrorism? This would have been terror provoking regardless of the nationality or religion of the individual involved. If you don't think so, interview one of the family members of the personnel who were there

[WeDidIt]

53. Not a shred of evidence

terrorism (n.) The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

The perpetrator is still unconscious and there is NOTHING telling us his intentions, only inuendo and supposition.

[Obamanaut]

64. Thanks, now I have the definition.

The unlawful use (shooting people is unlawful)or threatened use of force or violence (shooting people is violent) by a person or an organized group against people (people died)or property with the intention of intimidating (one does not shoot a bunch of people and they end up NOT intimidated) or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons (he didn't want to deploy)

If one shoots a bunch of rounds into a bunch of people, the intention is to harm a bunch of people. The dead and injured tell his intentions - hurt people. Is this really that hard for you to accept?

[WeDidIt]

70. Your intepretation of the definition is false

else everybody who commits a violent act is a terrorist.

[stray cat]

44. A mass murderer who targeted unarmed innocents

or a soldier who target unarmed combatants?

[Blue_In_AK]

47. Unrec.

Belongs in the Lounge. :evilgrin:

[itsrobert]

48. Because

it's not a general discussion of current events or political?

[Blue_In_AK]

54. Do you have a sense of humor?

[itsrobert]

58. I thought your post was funny

I was trying to respond as the straight man.

[Blue_In_AK]

60. I got ya.

All is well. :)

[H2O Man]

55. True.

Self-evident.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

56. What was his political motive?

That rapist who was recently found with all the bodies buried on his property... was he a terrorist?

[LostInAnomie]

57. I'm leaning "true", but can you really consider someone a terrorist...

... if they are not in control of all their mental faculties?

I'm not talking about all the normal delusions that religious zealots have. I'm talking about genuine mental disturbance.

[gleaner]

59. I picked Option 4 ......

It is too soon to know why he did what he did, if in fact we will ever know. He seems like the same kind of poorly adjusted individual who shoots up others in a public place to obliterate himself; like the worker who hates his boss and his co-workers, the high school kid who thinks he will achieve some type of immortality by killing others when he ends his own life in a hail of bullets.

What they have released about him so far shows a man who at best was a malcontent and at worst may have been out of his mind. The fact that he is Moslem is what everybody keeps thumping when it is probably not one of the main factors behind his actions. Think of all the serial killers we have spawned who say that Christ or God guided their actions. Does anyone ever think of them as terrorists? Bush preached tolerance of Moslems at first, but if you listened to the subtext later he slid in lots of fear and hatred by playing on existing prejudices and the hatred of people who are "different" in some way. It is what the Fundies tried to do with Obama. The first thing they tried to convince people of, was that he was a covert Moslem who had been born elsewhere and who had somehow insinuated himself into US politics to destroy the country.We had plenty of scorn for the so called birthers, and it was well deserved. It hasn't passed yet. They are still out there trying.

We have been at war for a long time. During wars statistics show that there is an increase in the suicide rate nationwide. I bring this up, because there are also many studies that show that dysfunctional people, most often male, attempt "suicide by police." That is they go on a crime spree knowing that they will be killed and acting in such a way that it becomes inevitable. It serves two purposes for them. They can take other people with them and they leave the earth in a flash of grandiosity without having to do anything to themselves by their own hand.

I am not making excuses for the shooter. He is a murderer and hopefully he will be brought to justice, he just doesn't strike me as a terrorist. I listened to a statement from his family who apologized as much as you can to the victims and their families and who said they did not know why their relative had done what he did or why. He did not telegraph his intentions to his family. It is a dreadful, terrible series of events which he is responsible for, but I do not feel that it was out of any motive other than his own hatred of himself and others, and maybe a desire to end his own life.

[itsrobert]

62. Thank you for a well-thought out answer

It makes you think.

[gleaner]

72. And thank you.....

I keep trying to understand how a person could do something like this. Each time it happens I try to understand, but I don't think I ever will. If something that I say can make others think about it, then I feel like I have done something well. Thanks again for your post.

[alarimer]

65. If he is a terrorist, then so is the guy in Orlando

And every other mass killer.

The problem with using the term terrorist for everyone who does something horrific is that it sort of dilutes the meaning of the term.

[lib2DaBone]

67. So One person shot nearly 600 rounds.. all by himself?

.. and a perfectly clean passport with a copy of the koran fluttered down out of the sky on 9/ll.... and was found amid the burning fire trucks and thousands of dead bodies...in perfectly clean condition....without anyone stepping on it.. in downtown NYC.

Amazing.. just friggin' amazing....

I wonder if it had a small neon sign above it (like in the cartoons) flashing "evidence here"... with a big neon arrow. Because we all know how hard it is for the FBI to follow clues...

[Earth_First]

69. Excellent push-poll style thread title... n/t

[Flaneur]

71. The term "terrorist" and its variations should be removed from the discourse.

It's a term of propaganda, no more. It tells us who we should hate.

Fun exercise: Try replacing the word "terrorist" with a neutral descriptor:

"Terrorists blew up a bus full of civilians."

"Opponents of the government blew up a bus full of civilians."

I prefer the second sentence. I'll make my own evaluations of the people who blew up the bus. The first sentence has no information not contained in the second sentence; it just adds propaganda pizazz.

In the present case, this guy looks to have become unhinged. More a mental health issue than anything.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[quaker bill]

75. It is at least possible

that he is simply insane. People do go nuts, even with years of military training.

[Xenotime]

76. To some he is a freedom fighter..

[ecstatic]

77. Are people fearful of military bases as a result of his actions?

I suspect not.

Are women/doctors afraid to go to abortion clinics for fear of being murdered by a loon like the one who killed Dr. Tiller? YES!

Hasan is not a terrorist although the people who were on base at that moment no doubt experienced feelings of terror. But the word "terrorist" is used to describe people who inflict panic and fear on a large scale.

[Romulox]

78. I don't see how arguing over this definition changes the facts on the ground. nt

[montanto]

79. How 'bout an "Oh, Christ!" option.

[Jack Rabbit]

80. No, he's nuts

Major Hasan is the one who initiated contact with terrorist groups, who seemed disinterested.

Major Hasan, 39, is unmarried with no children and doesn't belong to any groups. He is a loner.

If Major Hasan were to tell the world that Osama told him to do this, it be be wise to ask more questions before saying, "See, I told you so," as the gang of idiots on Fox and Friends will no doubt proclaim. If one were to then ask him how Osama told him, his answer would probably be something like a radio communication through a tooth filling or something equally as far fetched.

Right now, it looks like blaming the Ft. Hood tragedy on al Qaida is a little like blaming the Beatles for the Manson murders.

[Skidmore]

81. I freaking don't know but by the time Lieberman and the media

is done, he will be.