Buying something to avoid jail: bribery? Forcing someone to buy or go to jail: extortion?

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Please correct me if I am misunderstanding this. As I see it, Congress is now preparing to encourage Americans to bribe, by spending money to avoid jail time. At the same time Congress is threatening punishment (fines and jail time) if you don't buy it. Isn't that extortion? I'm all in favor of health care reform, in fact I support single payer at the federal level. But I think this whole matter of forcing people to buy health insurance is pretty un-American.

[emulatorloo]

1. Claims about jail time and fines are a bit over blown

Worth reading if you haven't seen it:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/sep/29/jail-time-health-insurance-violators/

POLITIFACT: Jail time for people who don't buy health insurance?
By Louis Jacobson
Published on Tuesday, September 29th, 2009 at 5:47 p.m.

Will you go to jail if you don't get health insurance? Critics say it's a possibility, but we find the fears to be overblown.

A subsidiary of the conservative group Americans for Prosperity has sent out an e-mail headlined, "Health Care Mandate Will Require Imprisonment and Fines for Americans Who Can’t Afford to Purchase Insurance or Pay Hefty Government Penalties."

Both the House and Senate bills would impose taxes designed to prod Americans who are uninsured into buying insurance.

Exemptions would be provided for families of limited means.

Backers hope that no American actually pays the tax; they want to see people spending those dollars on health insurance instead.

But what would happen to someone who refuses to pay? Could someone really end up in prison for lack of health insurance?

The answer is: Not very likely.That's why we rate the claim Barely True.

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[ProdigalJunkMail]

8. Not very likely? Then why the fuck is it in the bill?

“H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.”

“If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply…”

“Criminal penalties

Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.”

[MajorChode]

15. None of that is in the bill

Try reading the version that actually passed yesterday, not the ones the GOPhers want you to read.

[TheGunslinger]

25. The text of fines/imprisonment come from IRS code, not HR 3962

But, HR 3962 makes the IRS, in effect, a collection agency for the private, for-profit insurance companies.


Grand scheme, eh?

[provis99]

13. The Joint Committee on Taxation has already confirmed prison time is a reality.

look up the report from Thomas Barthold, the Chief of Staff to the committee. Prison and fines are a keystone of this horrible bill. We WILL be throwing people in prison who refuse to pay the "tax" for not having private health insurance.

[MajorChode]

16. Not exactly

If you refuse to buy health insurance, you may pay an additional tax eventually.

If you willfully refuse to pay your taxes, you may get put in jail, but that is true with or without this bill and has been for longer than most of us have been on this earth.

[TexasObserver]

2. You get hit while driving your car, and are taken to the hospital.

They take you to the hospital, unconscious. They discover you have failed to get insurance, as required. You awaken to find you're handcuffed to the bed, and there's an insurance agent there to sell the policy that will buy your freedom.

Crazy? Wait five years and see.

[Cirque du So-What]

3. Halloween ended last week

Time to give the 'Dracula stories' a rest. They will send the feeble-minded into a tizzy, and it'll be hell getting them to come out from under the bed. They can take their laptops under there, yunno, where they'll persist in scaring even more folks.

[Fire1]

5. LOL!!! n/t

[TexasObserver]

10. Yes, but the horror of health care run by insurance companies didn't.

Educate yourself. There's still time.

[Odin2005]

14. What a truly ignorant post.

In the same category as death panels.

[TexasObserver]

17. What a truly petulant post.

Take a break until you can control your outbursts, please.

[MajorChode]

18. You're right

It is crazy.

[TexasObserver]

19. Very descriptive name, and accurate, too.

[MajorChode]

20. How observant of you

Now do you have anything that actually involves facts and reason, or is hyperbole and bullshit all you got?

[Taitertots]

4. Just like my car insurance

I have to pay more for insurance than my car is worth. I bought a $200 Cavalier when I got out of high school. I paid 10x more than that to have it "insured" for a year. Insured is in quotations because while they may call it insurance, I got absolutely no coverage.


Welcome to the face of American insurance with no coverage.

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7. I'm at that point too...

I'm paying USAA something like $880 for insurance every year, and its blue book value is only like $2,500. Nuts. And I pay Blue Shield over $2,000 a year in premiums for what I think is bare-bones insurance.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

9. your car can do MUCH more than $2000 worth of damage

you are not insuring just your car...

sP

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11. but it won't, because I'm an extremely careful driver

I have never had a claim, never had a moving ticket, only one parking ticket.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

21. right...you are perfect...and the insurance company believes you on that

if you are a safe driver...rates drop. I have two vehicles under full coverage for less than $700 a year...

sP

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23. My rate has dropped from about 600 in 2002 to 440 now,

every 6 months, and I assumed that was because my car is quite a bit less valuable now. I thought they would give me a bigger break because I have never filed a claim.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

24. with a car of that low value about 90-95% of your premium

is going toward liability most likely. there is only so much break they will ever give and then you have the actuarial tables to deal with which consider everything from your age to the region you live in...I would say $440 every six months ain't too bad.

sP

[Taitertots]

12. Would it even cover any of those things?

More than likely not.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

22. that is what liability coverage is for

it sounds like you don't really understand how auto-insurance works...

sP

[greennina]

6. It's legislated profits for insurance crooks

It's their form of a bail-out.

We were sold-out.