A mandate without a STRONG public option

[gaspee]

Is a giveaway to the insurance industry - who will then run with it and screw us all over. I could live with a mandate if a strong public option that kept these greedy, amoral crooks in line came with it. Otherwise a mandate is just a huge corporate giveaway and the little people get screwed again.

Don't even get me started on half the population's complete health not being funded. Women will die because abortion will be out of their financial reach. Will, not might.

But hey - take out coverage for viagra and other ED drugs - oh and prostate screening and all male reproductive treatments and we might be able to negotiate.

Insurance companies FTW, again! What a surprise.

[quiet.american]

1. So this is going to be the new anti-reform "tool" on DU, I see.

Whatever.

[HughMoran]

16. Yeah. And if that were fixed, the Republican plants would find another "gothcha" issue

There's a method to their madness IMO.

[leftstreet]

2. K&R

[Aramchek]

3. You want a feast. You want a bean feast!! Don't care how, you want it now!!!

[ProSense]

4. Yeah, because so many people are trying to find a way to get out of coverage.

People are fighting the bill because it only covers 96 percent of the population while pushing this mandate strawman and the jail claim. How many people are deciding to remain uninsured by choice? Everyone who has insurance wants it and want the cost brought down. Those who don't have want it at an affordable rate. There is no group fighting reform because they don't want coverage.

[Hello_Kitty]

9. "How many people are deciding to remain uninsured by choice?"

Good point, Pro Sense. Not many are. Yet the mandate support is predicated on the belief that there are millions of healthy young people out there with buckets of disposable cash, selfishly and gleefully withholding it from insurance companies, buying bling and flat screen TVs instead. (Seriously, I've read that here on DU more than once.) Somehow, forcing this (mostly mythical) group of irresponsible free-riding Emergency Room Health Care Queen scofflaws to buy insurance is going to magically reduce the cost of everyone's health care to nearly nothing.

[Hatchling]

5. Wow.

This thing is getting kicked back and forth, up and down with no discussion.

I don't like the mandate. I'm hoping it will be challenged in court.

But otherwise we now have a structure we can start improving on if we keep our party in control of congress.

K&R.

[sandnsea]

6. Define "strong" and "robust"

And PAP smears and all women's medical needs are covered, same as prostate screening.

Why don't you fight FOR an abortion rider instead of throwing a temper tantrum.

[bluestateguy]

7. They tried with good faith to get the good public option

But the whip count never moved passed 210.

And if the insurance companies liked this bill so much why did they oppose it?

[laughingliberal]

14. I think it's pro wrestling. The fight is for our entertainment. nt

[LatteLibertine]

8. If this

bill is such a win for them why are they fighting it every step of the way?

[optimator]

11. they will fight until we get absolutely nothing

thats business

[gaspee]

10. What a surprise

Lots of ignoreds here. I tend to ignore only anti-women or anti-gay or pro-corporate posters. Interesting.

Oh wait - I must want a pony again. I am sickened by what has become of the left. There isn't a left anymore - just batshit insane republicans and rightish centrists who think they are lefties.

I was so hopeful about helathcare but each successive week brought more and more disappointment until we ended up with a shitsandwich we're being told is caviar - hey - we're all too stupid to taste the difference.

How well is that mandate working out in MA? And for those who think they know.... well, I live in RI which might as well be MA and it's not working out all that great - and that's from first hand knowledge - not what I'm told by others, thanks.

[HughMoran]

17. Nice

Love the way you made the decision for me. Bye. :hi:

[Skittles]

30. what exactly is wrong with what that DUer said?

IT'S THE FUCKING TRUTH

[Prism]

12. This is Propaganda Reform

It's all about the talking points, the American people be damned. Look at the usual propagandists. "This bill will broaden coverage to 96% of Americans!" Sounds good, right? Until you realize that coverage is through forced payments that will break the backs of working families while enriching the corporations even further. Transfers of wealth from the poor and working class to the top 1% is a horrible thing - unless there's a Democratic victory to be had. Then, well get on board, you traitorous purists.

We always wonder why this country is so imbalanced, how our wealth is so concentrated, why we cannot seem to get any kind of levity or benefit for the average American.

Well, when the "liberal" party is doing this sort of thing, is it any wonder?

And we'll own this one. This is all ours. No one can blame the future hardship from this system on the Republicans. This pro-corporate, anti-worker boondoggle will be stamped with the Democratic label for decades to come.

But we may very well win a media cycle, and that's the important thing.

Scary, disheartening, predictable.

We need political party reform next, or the American people will be truly lost.

The credit card companies were given nine months to go wild, and they have. Imagine what the insurance companies can do with the years before much of it kicks in.

[quiet.american]

15. "Breaks the backs of working families..." wrong, wrong, wrong.

Wrong.

I've posted link after link that gives information on affordability credits, subsidies, and exemptions, and so have many DU'ers.

"Breaks the backs of working families...." ignores the reforms in the bill that caps premiums, caps out-of-pocket, makes it illegal to be dropped from coverage, denied coverage, or have one's rates arbitrarily jacked up, amongst other things.

If this breaks the backs of working families, why are the unions for it.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. If you can provied any link at all that will explain

how my family, considered strangers to each other by tax law, will be treated in terms of defining us as a 'household' or a 'family' or as nothing. How will the subsidies work, what steps should we be taking now, etc. Please, if you have any of this information post it here, and send me a pm as well. Thanks.

[quiet.american]

20. Links

My post on crunching the numbers for myself has information in it that should get you started in the right direction:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6913410

Dept. of Education and Labor has an extremely comprehensive healthcare reform site (scroll down the whole page as well for breakout summaries):
http://edlabor.house.gov/blog/2009/10/affordable-health-care.shtml

[Bluenorthwest]

23. that does not really address what I'm looking for but thanks

it is an ongoing morass. At some point, the fullness of the burden we are being given will be made clear, I am sure.

[quiet.american]

26. I simply can't see why having access to health insurance is a burden. nt

[Cleita]

13. This is why the plan is doomed to fail.

Next time they will have to do it right or we will end up with another Bush in the White House.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Politics as usual. And, as run by the lobbyists and $$$$$.

[rollingrock]

21. Are dems trying to outdo the repugs?

at least the repugs didn't try to shove mandates down our throats when they were in office.
so the dems are just as bad, if not worse. there's no real difference between the two corporate parties and never has been, at least not since the days of kennedy or FDR.

[quiet.american]

22. Really? Then why didn't 'Pugs repeal Medicare and Soc. Sec. payroll deductions?

You know, it just occurred to me the complete irony -- of those who were shouting "keep your government hands off my Medicare,"/"Mandates are a crime against the Constitution" -- when my entire working life I've been contributing required payroll deductions to their Medicare/Soc. Security, and that's fine with them!

[gaspee]

24. Huge difference betweent SS and private required insurance

Jeeze - that's what this entire OP is about! Buy a freaking clue - would you?!

[quiet.american]

27. It might behoove you to do the same.

It's a disingenuous simplification to boil this down to freaking out about being mandated to buy private insurance. And I suspect you know that.

[LWolf]

25. All true. nt

[ProleNoMore]

28. Insurance Companies +1 - America -1

eom

[Skittles]

29. of course it is