I've been thinking about that Stupak amendment.. and it's

[shraby]

missing something. If he wants to mandate that if a woman has an abortion, she has to pay the full shot out of her own private money, shouldn't he also mandate that the male part of that conception pay half of the cost? There isn't exactly such a thing as immaculate conception. Takes two to tango, it should take two to undo the tango.

[sam sarrha]

1. there is going to be a specific "Corporate" insurance policy for abortions

[shraby]

2. Then men should have to carry a policy if they are

of an age to impregnate a woman that both can use to pay for an abortion. It should cost half as much for each sex, and both can put in a claim for 1 abortion...the gov't/insurance company can figure out the details, but the woman should NOT have to bear the full brunt of expenses...like I said there are two people involved in one conception.

[sam sarrha]

3. apparently the lawyer haters set up a serious/expensive litigation situation here...

[sam sarrha]

5. so... the guy has to show proof of insurance and protection before......

:rofl: :pals: ....sweet.

[sandnsea]

8. Yes, the men should be included

And if their so or daughter gets pregnant, their policy should cover the abortion.

[shraby]

11. This old gramma has never in her whole life seen

men do anything but pretend they have nothing to do with getting women pregnant, and even in this enlightened age, many of those in Washington still think this way. Most of the women have done a lot to educate the men in our circle (husband, sons, uncles, brothers, etc) that women don't get pregnant all by themselves, but it's obvious that some of the women in this country have fallen down on the educating they should be doing.

[sandnsea]

16. I taught my sons that they get pregnant too

And I would personally check their policies and make sure they had checked that box. That's mothers taking a bit of responsibility for teaching our sons better. And neither one of them have gotten someone pregnant, ages 23 and 33.

[chimpymustgo]

30. Hell of an idea. Write your Senator!

K&R

[ZombieHorde]

4. If we are going to change the bill, I would rather just include women's health care. nt

[shraby]

6. I agree totally. An abortion is part of health care. It's a

medical concern from start to finish..why else do they encourage women to go to a doctor when she first suspects she is pregnant?

[sandnsea]

9. Abortion won't be included

So what's your next idea.

[ZombieHorde]

12. Increase propaganda. Republicans do wonders with propaganda,

maybe we should try harder. Democrats should hire some bad-ass marketing executives and put them to work on this issue.

[sandnsea]

19. Oh, we should do something constructive

Well hells bells, what a concept!!

Since we've got about a month - do you really think we'll change minds on abortion in that time period?

If not, then what's your next idea?

[ZombieHorde]

21. "do you really think we'll change minds on abortion in that time period?"

The goal is worth the effort, even if the odds are against us.

[sandnsea]

24. I prefer fighting for a mandated abortion rider

But whatever. I realize it's not near as much fun as "speaking truth to power". :eyes:

[ZombieHorde]

27. You are using a logical fallacy called straw man.

Logical fallacies are contrary to critical thinking.

[sandnsea]

31. No. I'm just using logic

We're not going to change minds on abortion coverage, so we need to come up with another solution.

[ZombieHorde]

34. "I prefer fighting for a mandated abortion rider" = logical response.

"But whatever. I realize it's not near as much fun as "speaking truth to power". :eyes:" = straw man.

We're not going to change minds on abortion coverage, so we need to come up with another solution.

I think we should try more than one possible solution.

[sandnsea]

38. What are your solutions?

I'm open to ideas. Overturning the Hyde Amendment by including full abortion coverage in the exchange and public option is not one of them. That idea lost.

So how do we expand abortion coverage without having it federally funded?

[ZombieHorde]

42. Long term goals should include attacking the Hyde amendment.

The attack should be on two fronts, the first is marketing, the second is a horde of lawyers combing for loopholes or weaknesses.

Short term goal could be creating incentives for insurance companies to cover women's health care, such as a nice tax break. Technically, they won't be federally funded, even though a nice tax break would have a similar end result for the insurance company.

Your mandated abortion rider should be explored.

If I had a bunch of money to throw at this problem, I would hire people more educated than myself to help with the brainstorming.

[sam sarrha]

10. the Dominionist ReThuglican Talaban in NOT going to spend a cent on the poor or Women....

I've been harping for nearly 30 years that they are mentally ill, Pathological OCD, they are

out of control.. an elitist religious Cargo Cult is becoming more obvious, based on believing that Wealth is the measure of Gods "Favor" of a man/corporation, therefore it is a sin against god to tax a Rich Man or Corporation. by default the poor are being punished by god, and it is a sin to help the poor, they have a base of underclass supporters duped into believing they will get favor supporting the elite rich who are actually screwing them... this was common belief in even the Roman Empire.. Jesus was really upsetting the Apple Cart.

it explains all the mysteries of the GOP, all those .."WHAT THE HELL.??!! MOMENTS... and the NeoCons in particular

[laughingliberal]

20. You're correct. That does explain the WTH??!! Moments

Frightening but it fits.

[sandnsea]

7. Add a voluntary abortion rider

Let women and men choose to add it. Make it a mandatory requirement of all insurance policies. Require insurance companies to calculate the funding so no federal dollars support it.

The end.

Good Grief this is not rocket science.

[rucky]

13. too practical to appease the anti-choicers. n/t

[sandnsea]

41. Actually, Stupak would accept this

It's too practical to appeace the pro-choicers who are really trying to overturn the Hyde Amendment but just won't tell the truth about it.

[Hello_Kitty]

15. OMG.

"I'd like to sign up for the Extra Slut Coverage, please. I plan on having at least one abortion in the near future."

[sandnsea]

17. Is birth control "slut coverage"?

What a stupid thing to say.

[Hello_Kitty]

23. Really? It's basically the argument that several female Congresswomen were making

Minus the "slut coverage" part, of course. One by one, they went up to the podium and tried to explain that women don't plan to get abortions and wouldn't sign up for "abortion riders". Are they stupid too?

And many anti-choicers do think birth control is for sluts. Which is why they try to limit our access to it. Where have you been? Do you really think they aren't going to go further now that they've won a victory with the Stupak amendment? Are you really that naive? Next up will be an attempt to prohibit insurance plans from covering emergency contraception. Bet on it.

[sandnsea]

29. Yes, a lot of congresswomen were flat stupid yesterday

The crap they said was completely unhelpful and misrepresented the situation. It's like saying a single woman is too stupid to buy birth control because it's "slut coverage".

I don't give a crap what anti-choice people say about abortion. I don't give a crap if they don't check the box and consequently can't slink away to get an abortion. I Don't Care about them.

I care about wise women and men who live in reality. Mandated abortion riders. Sensible people WILL check that box because they know life is precarious. And frankly, so would a lot of those anti-choicers without telling anybody. When 80% of policy holders check that box, then the truth will be clear and we can be done with this nonsense once and for all.

[Hello_Kitty]

36. Oh bullshit.

First off, stop with the asinine comparison to birth control because I already explained to you that the forced birthers think it's for sluts. And, BTW, part of the reason we have so many abortions in this country is because too many young women are ashamed to ask for contraception or think that using it means that they are dirty sluts who planned to have sex. Family planning advocates call it the "swept away" phenomenon, where girls think sex should always be a spontaneous and "romantic" event. There will be plenty of "un-sensible" women who won't opt for an abortion rider, either because they figure their contraception won't fail or because they are like the girls I described.

What about young women who will remain on their parents' policies? I guess if you want the abortion rider but your parents are anti-choice, you are SOL.

[shraby]

37. Another thing that was said on the Republican side of

the house was that they resented having to pay taxes that might pay for abortions that kill the unborn....I resent having to pay taxes to support wars that kill the young men and women who are already born.
When they quit supporting wars, then they can say something about abortion..and not one minute before that. Their argument is weak.

[sandnsea]

39. How do we expand abortion coverage

without using federal funding. That's all I care about. I don't care about all these he said, she said, bullshit political games.

[shraby]

18. I am sorry you saw fit to call it "extra slut coverage".

When I was 18 years old, I was having lunch at the drug store when they had lunch counters there..and a lady sat down next to me. Apparently she was extremely upset..enough to talk to a total stranger..and told me she had just come from the doctor and found out she was pregnant..again. Seems she said she already had 5 children. I didn't know what to say. This was before Roe v Wade. I don't know what she did, but I can tell you she was no slut...as are a vast majority of women who find they need an abortion. This was also before the birth control pill.
Shame on you!

[Hello_Kitty]

25. I'm sorry you see fit to clutch your pearls in faux outrage.

And shame on you for being dumb enough to believe that women are going to humiliate themselves by asking to put an "abortion rider" on their health coverage.

And fuck you for defending forced birther bullshit on DU.

[shraby]

32. I don't defend forced birth, never have and never will.

I also didn't call for a "rider" on insurance. I said that if women are required to pay for an abortion out of their own private money, men should be required to pay half because I have yet to see a woman get pregnant by herself..if they can't figure out how to make men pay, they should rip that Stupak amendment out of the bill they voted on last night.

[MajorChode]

35. Sweet Jebus that was funny as hell

I don't care who you are.

[SPedigrees]

26. That's a good idea. nt

[PeaceNikki]

28. Here you go

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/newsroom/press-releases/planned-parenthood-statement-opposing-stupak-pitts-amendment-30818.htm

"Such an ‘abortion rider,’ whereby abortion care could only be covered by a single-service plan in the exchange, is discriminatory and illogical. Women do not plan to have unintended pregnancies or medically complicated pregnancies that require ending the pregnancy. In fact, about half of all pregnancies in the U.S. are unintended, and abortion is not something that women plan to insure against. As a result, an ‘abortion rider’ policy is unworkable. Proposing a separate ‘abortion rider’ represents exactly the type of government interference in the health care marketplace that conservatives purport to vehemently oppose."

[sandnsea]

40. Answered here. As you know.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6962089

[adamuu]

14. Cheaper than 18 years of child support n/t

[Name removed]

22. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cleita]

33. Don't forget the Viagra, which no doubt will be paid out with no objection.