My support for this "health care reform" bill has evaporated

[Ardent15]

Yesterday, I posted that this bill was better than nothing, and that a more progressive bill would have had no chance. After further research and a night to sleep on it, I realized I was wrong: this bill is worse than nothing.

There is nothing, nothing that justifies Stupak's sick amendment. Furthermore, we should be dismantling the insurance company system that dominates health care, not expanding it.

I applaud the Democrats who voted against this bill. But I also have a prediction. Many of the people who voted for this bill will face fierce primary challenges, and who knows-maybe more progressive candidates will get their seats.

The Republicans will probably gain nothing from opposing this bill, because their reasons for opposing it are disgusting. Progressives and liberals, on the other hand, have a lot to gain by opposing this charade of "health care reform."

My $0.02

[mike_c]

1. agreed, 100 percent....

This bill sets up a bastion against real reform that will likely last for decades. Thanks for nothing, congressional dems.

[Ardent15]

4. And this was from the HOUSE....

Think of what bullshit the Senate will come up with.

[Truth2Tell]

2. The ability to change one's mind

when presented with new evidence is a sign of intellectual maturity. K&R.

[rhett o rick]

3. Save your disappointment until after the Senate removes everything worthwhile. nt

[Ardent15]

5. Seriously...

The Senate bill will be even worse.

[rhett o rick]

18. That's what I mean. No need to cheer or cry at this point. nt

[spotbird]

9. There is so little, that it won't take

them long either.

[rhett o rick]

19. No exclusions for pre-existing conditions has to go. nt

[mvd]

6. Hi

That Stupak amendment only increases the inequality and appeases the anti-choice forces - when progressives couldn't even have their single payer amendment voted on. But what else exactly changed your mind? Can you go into specifics? I'm open to new info.

[Ardent15]

7. Many of the posters here on DU and more information...

..overall changed my mind.

But really what angers me is that we're giving more control to the insurance companies, and Congress has the gall to call this "reform."

[mvd]

10. If there had been a stronger plublic option, I'd like this bill more

I'm not sure insurance companies will see much competition. My hope is that it at least helps people with pre-existing conditions, and that the public option catches on. Trying to be positive since progress in this country comes slowly.

[Ardent15]

12. Those are the few good things in the bill

I hope they stay in the Senate bill.

[Bicoastal]

8. "I applaud the Democrats who voted against this bill." You do realize...

...that the ones who voted NAY are, except for Kucinich, all Blue Dogs and Conservatives?

Rep. John Adler Nay
Rep. Jason Altmire Nay
Rep. Brian Baird Nay
Rep. John Barrow Nay
Rep. John Boccieri Nay
Rep. Dan Boren Nay
Rep. Frederick Boucher Nay
Rep. Allen Boyd Nay
Rep. Bobby Bright Nay
Rep. Ben Chandler Nay
Rep. Travis Childers Nay
Rep. Lincoln Davis Nay
Rep. Artur Davis Nay
Rep. Thomas Edwards Nay
Rep. Barton Gordon Nay
Rep. Parker Griffith Nay
Rep. Stephanie Herseth Sandlin Nay
Rep. Tim Holden Nay
Rep. Larry Kissell Nay
Rep. Suzanne Kosmas Nay
Rep. Frank Kratovil Nay
Rep. Dennis Kucinich Nay
Rep. Betsy Markey Nay
Rep. James Marshall Nay
Rep. Eric Massa Nay
Rep. Jim Matheson Nay
Rep. Mike McIntyre Nay
Rep. Michael McMahon Nay
Rep. Charles Melancon Nay
Rep. Walter Minnick Nay
Rep. Scott Murphy Nay
Rep. Glenn Nye Nay
Rep. Collin Peterson Nay
Rep. Mike Ross Nay
Rep. Heath Shuler Nay
Rep. Ike Skelton Nay
Rep. John Tanner Nay
Rep. Gene Taylor Nay
Rep. Harry Teague Nay

Every other liberal Dem voted for it. You applaud Heath Shuler but hope Alan Grayson gets primaried?

[spotbird]

11. A majority can be wrong. nt

[HughMoran]

13. The thinking isn't necessarily driven by logic

Like a lot of what's popular on DU these days, it's all about the 'gut emotional impact' and very very very little on the 'reality'. Example - I will save $25,000/year with this new plan - guess what all these people including Debbie say when I mention this? Exactly - crickets. They don't care about people, they care about ideals. It's maddening!

[JoeyT]

22. Just so the crickets aren't all you hear:

So since the bill will save *YOU* money, it's the best thing ever, is that the gist of your argument?
Sure it's a giant neon flashing middle finger to women, progressives, and most of the middle class, but you come out ahead, so it's all gravy. Am I misrepresenting you? Cause it certainly sounds like you're saying that anything that benefits you is good, other considerations be damned. If that isn't ignoring reality, I'm not sure what is. It certainly isn't caring about people.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled crickets.

[Bluenorthwest]

25. If you ask them, the majority of DUers who support this bill

do so for personalized reasons, that is, the bill saves them money or allows a well off person they know to buy denied insurance. Ask them. Of course, those are good reasons for THEM to support it, but the notion that I would want my family to pay and suffer for the sake of another family is just delusional. If it harms my own, the fact that it helps their own will not persuade.

[Ardent15]

14. I don't hope that Grayson gets primaried....

But most of the others who voted for this bill, yes, I do hope they get primaried.

And I really don't care what the Blue Dogs think. If they happen to have similar views to me on one issue, than good for them.

However, I know that their reasons for voting against the health care bill were the opposite of Kucinich's. So I don't really applaud them.

[Bicoastal]

15. Why DON'T you want Grayson primaried? He voted Yea--what makes him different?

[Ardent15]

17. He voted yea looking at the positive aspects of the bill...

You can tell that he really cares and has courage.

That's what makes him different. He's not a corporatist.

[stray cat]

16. Its scary when DUers agree with the GOP and the insurance companies

[Bluenorthwest]

26. Obama voted with the GOP on Teri Schaivo

as well as with them against my community on the Uniting American Families Act. He agrees with the GOP and Big Religion that some humans are not as equal as others.
Very scary.

[sharesunited]

20. Don't you see that the major accomplishment is Involvement?

Involvement in the areas of access, coverage, affordability. Involvement in what previously has been sacrosanct private corporate decision making.

No, it isn't where we need to be, but Involvement whatsoever was the big bugaboo, and was what the Republicans have been resisting.

Keep fighting to implement and transform and fund it until it becomes the ideal which we wish we could have snapped our fingers and suddenly had.

But Involvement now is a given.

[newspeak]

33. what I see is that the insurance companies can still charge high payments

sure, they can not exclude pre-existing conditions but they can charge you more for that pre-existing condition. They can charge more for people over fifty. The subsidy for some people will not be enough to offset insurance company payment--workers with bills will not be able to meet payments even for the most shitty policy. If this bill passes, it's going to be interesting how many will still be left with no insurance, and have to pay the penalty. "adding insult to injury."

Don't kid yourself that the repugs don't like this bill. It's a windfall for the insurance industry. They don't particularly like some things that benefit us, which they can remedy as it goes through the Senate, especially the weak public option. Bets that this will turn out to be the repug Romney's health bill. Also, the repugs have to give the illusion that they are not for anything coming from the democrats. After all, they've already said they're going to be the party of "no." But, if you would have shown me the bill and taken out some of the crumbs for us, I would have sworn I was looking at a repug bill.

[BR_Parkway]

21. It's pretty similar to the financial services reforms - instead of dismantling them, we're building

them up and bigger as well.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

23. K&R

[geek tragedy]

24. I GUARANTEE you that there will not be a single Democrat

who faces a credible primary from the left for having voted for this legislation.

Not one.

The people pissing and moaning about this are collectively irrelevant and impotent.

[Le Taz Hot]

28. Well, then it's a good thing third-party candidates don't usually

face primary challenges. Gives them time to campaign on ISSUES and what's good for the COUNTRY as opposed to licking Major Political Party boots. "Pissing," "moaning," "irrelevant" and "impotent." Projection anyone?

[Bluenorthwest]

29. Personally I know when a group is irrelevent by

the lack of emotional response from the opposition. So when people come to write a special post with words selected for high impact, on a personalized basis, it is clear to me that a strong reaction is in fact being brought forth. That which is irrelevant does not illicit dramatic capitalized hyperbole from those who do not agree with it. Your reaction belies your claimed position.
Or do you always spend time and energy on irrelevant things? If so, why? To what end? Bored to tears or what?

[lunatica]

27. I hope you're right

Progressives need to start running as progressives and win or lose based on their truths.

[happy2bhere]

30. I did not support it until I read quiet american's post

when I realized how many truly poor people would be helped, I had no choice but to support it.

quiet.american crunching the numbers looks like the poorest among us will be helped by health bill
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6964544

[glitch]

31. That's a very positive way to look at this mess, thank you. nt

[BzaDem]

32. Any such primary challenge won't be viable but will help the candidate in the general. So go for it.