Is it possible, if we had started with an official position for single payer, that the vote .......

[Stinky The Clown]

.... yesterday would have, after much ballyhoo, posturing, teabagging, demagoguery, hand wringing, name calling, etc., been for a far better bill than we got and would have passed by a similar margin?

[Orrex]

1. Possible? Sure. Why not?

Likely? I don't think so.

[Jennicut]

2. Not necessarily. I have seen this argument here before on DU.

I don't get why people think that that proposal still would not have been stripped down to the current bill. Single payer advocates would have no leverage or power to work toward getting a better compromise when they did not have a large bloc of votes to offer in the House. The number of votes in the Senate would be even worse.

[barbtries]

5. well, yeah

there would have had to have been the numbers for it to make a difference. i got a letter from my rep in which he suggested that the only reason he didn't fight full on for single payer was because it was a hopeless case, though. IF it hadn't been so perceived, things may have turned out a lot better for the country.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. I think we also need to factor in public opinion

I also think if we had a leader on this issue who was out there during teabag season smacking down the bullshit, we'd have been much better off.

NO ONE was defending our side during teabag season.

Yes, in my view, the absent "someone" on this issue was the president.

[Jennicut]

9. Why would he advocate it now when he did not even campaign on it?

Presidents change their minds all the time but I doubt he looked at the #'s regarding the votes he could have gotten, and said...yes! This way is best and if only I advocate for it I will everyone come along with me." I think he looked at what he reasonably thought he could get.
Teabaggers had nothing to do with the vote, it was all about how many Dems you could get.

[Stinky The Clown]

16. No ... it was about leadership on healthcare .... or the lack thereof

And just because someone campaigned on something and we all voted for that person does NOT make that campaign position right.

[bluethruandthru]

13. That has been the biggest problem.

If the American people were given the truth about Single Payer from our leaders and the media there would be overwhelming support. Instead, we've had virtually no leadership on the issue and the media has either ignored or mischaracterized what Single Payer is.

How many times have you explained single payer to someone...even a tea bagger type...and had them end up agreeing with you? It's happened to me countless times.

[Stinky The Clown]

15. You are absolutely correct

One of my neighbors is an old guy who was in the Marines and still thinks he's there and is the neighborhood source for all manner of right wing e-mail bullshit. He doesn't even realize that half the neighbors have him in their spam filters! :)

We had a discussion some months ago about health care. Sparkly and I were the youngest people in the group and the only two not on medicare. When I described single payer as "medicare for all" they all got it .... and Colonel Gyrene looked a little sheepish.

[barbtries]

3. definitely

my opinion. if we'd started out asking for the moon we would have ended up making compromises that were far more favorable than what we are left with so far.

does anyone know when the senate begins work on it?

[abluelady]

4. Absolutely

How can you start negotiating right of center!

[Vincardog]

7. Only if the negotiators working on our side had been halfway decent and those on the other side had

been half way in good faith. I have seen little evidence of either case being true.

[ananda]

8. Absolutely.

However, the corporate and special interests have
been driving this bill from the getgo.

[L0oniX]

10. SPHC or nothing.

[Wapsie B]

11. It's possible but in this political climate very unlikely.

My only hope is that whatever bill is finally signed by Obama is a starting point from which to build upon. If there would be a core of bedrock Liberal Dems in office not giving an inch on the concept of single payer then this would have a better chance at being a reality. As it is we have a gop refusing to be a minority party, politicians in the medical industry's back pocket, and a system in desperate need of its next fix (policy holder's cash). The change we're looking for will have to happen over time. That is my only hope. I'll be 53 in a few weeks and hope that before the time I'm able to draw SSI more substantive work will be done towards healthcare reform in this country, to bring it up to first-world status and truly have the best healthcare in the world; not 37th or whatever it is now.

[ProleNoMore]

12. Negotiations 101 - Always Begin From A position Of Strength

eom

[mike_c]

14. absolutely-- and the bought and paid for congress feared single payer...

...like nothing else, so they lowered the bar to the point where "democrats" would cheer about winning a shit sandwich. Hip hip hooray.

[Stinky The Clown]

17. I want this as the logo for this bill and the ulitmate that gets voted out and signed

[BR_Parkway]

18. Don't know, but if we had tried to repeal DADT and DOMA at same time

we could have passed single payer completely un-noticed

[Stinky The Clown]

19. Hahahaha

You're probably right.