Just the fact we're seeing so many threads here about the possible jail penalty

[highplainsdem]

should tell us that it's a poison pill the House Democrats just gave the party.

This is such an outrageous "solution" to the basic problem of insurance companies having a stranglehold on this country - using threats by the government to tighten that strangehold - that many people here can't even believe it's part of a Democratic "healthcare reform" bill.

Especially since we haven't heard all that much about it, until recently.

So we've had DUers asking in stunned disbelief if this is really true.

We've had DUers who know it's true pointing out it's a disaster for the country in general and Democrats in particular, since we could hardly give the Republicans a bigger stick to beat us with (short of a federally enforced death penalty for people who don't buy insurance at outrageous rates).

We have DUers who don't want to hear any complaints about the bill either denying flat-out that those penalties exist, or excusing them on the grounds that it will be the IRS enforcing the penalties (as if that absolves the politicians who voted for them), or trying to convince us that few if any people will find themselves facing that initial penalty for not buying insurance since the subsidies will help everyone who can't afford insurance at sky-high rates.

Anyone who believes that last point obviously never met anyone who was turned down for government assistance they desperately needed.

I suspect we're going to be hearing a lot more about those penalties in the future, now that Democrats have voted for them.

[ananda]

1. It's an ugly bill all right.

Anti-choice

Punitive


Just ugly.

[babylonsister]

2. And I've been asking for a link to explain this supposed

jail penalty. Do you have one? Have you seen one? Because no one has been able to provide one so far.

Thanks.

[bigtree]

3. It refers to the failure to pay the higher taxes imposed when you can't afford coverage

. . . and the government's response to that failure. The 'penalty' falls to the IRS in the form of an assessment on your tax bill. It's the government forcing you to pay, hook or crook for coverage, whether you can afford it or not (even with whatever subsidy they provide to supposedly mitigate that cost).

[babylonsister]

4. Jeeze, I 'get' that. I want to know where the 'go to jail' meme started.

Do you have a link?

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Bingo

[Stinky The Clown]

6. A few people posted replies to that very question in the link, below.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6955487

[babylonsister]

11. Thanks! Here's a link to politifact debunking this trash...

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/29/patients-first/conservative-group-says-youll-be-imprisoned-not-ha/

"Health care mandate will require imprisonment and fines for Americans who can’t afford to purchase insurance or pay hefty government penalties."


Conservative group says you'll be imprisoned for not having health insurance

BARELY TRUE

[The Straight Story]

8. Don't know if this is all true or not, but here is some info from a google news search:

Not content with robbing you of your money, however, under the Pelosi plan, the IRS will rob you of your liberty, as well. Criminal prosecution is provided under the IRC (as amended by the terms of HR 3962) for failure to comply. There is a misdemeanor level of disobedience and a felony level. The punishment for a minor violation is set forth in Section 7203. “Misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment for up to one year.” For those really hardcore healthcare criminals, the punishment is a fine up to $250,000 and/or five years in jail. You’ve read it right. If the Health Care Commissioner decides your policy isn’t Pelosi-friendly and you don’t make the appropriate changes to it, then you may do time.
...


Excerpts from the JCT letter:

“H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.”

“If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply…”

“Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

* Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

* Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.”

http://yesbuthowever.com/pelosi-bill-jail-health-insurance-8136225/comment-page-1/

[babylonsister]

9. Check this out: "There is no section 7203 in the health care bill"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6955395#6955640

[The Straight Story]

12. Not sure it would be in the bill, I am guessing it refers to tax code (nt)

[highplainsdem]

13. Read more carefully. Those are sections of IRS law.

They don't have to be included in the healthcare bill itself to be in effect if failure to buy insurance at high rates is made a tax penalty.

[Barack_America]

7. No it means that DUers are wiling to fall for a GOP scare tactic.

When it conveniently supports their point of view.

There are already penalties in place for not paying one's taxes, yet we don't seem to have many debtors prisons full of low-income folks.

[malaise]

10. Ding ding

We have...

[hvn_nbr_2]

14. Well, let's see. If even DUers "fall for" a "GOP scare tactic", then ...

how hard will independent voters fall in 2010 and 2012.

When the first person in the country goes to jail because their income is above the poverty level so they can't qualify for subsidies but they can't afford $1000 or more a month for crappy insurance, then every CorpMedia outlet in the country will play the story 24/7 for weeks. Hmmmm, I wonder how the next election cycle after that will go.

We don't have debtors prisons full of low-income foks who can't pay their taxes because low-income folks don't owe much income tax, and what they do owe is already withheld before they even see the income. This situation with paying protection money to insurance companies is completely different.

[highplainsdem]

15. Exactly. Thank you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. The fact that so many people question Obama's birth certificate...

must mean there's something wrong with it.

:crazy: