The Kucinichians (all 3% of them) will whine for a few days....

[scheming daemons]

...and the freepers will go count all their ammo and prepare for armageddon....


....but tonight we're one step closer to something every Democratic President and congress has wanted for 100 years, but have been unable to make happen.


Is it perfect? No. The first run of something like this never is.


In 1966, Medicare sucked. It took years of tweaking before it got to where it is today. But we needed to get the foot in the door.


In 1936, Social Security sucked. It took years of tweaking before it got to where it is today.


Dennis is pissed because we didn't go straight to the end result that he wants ... but the reason Dennis will never win anything other than his very liberal little district is because he doesn't understand that, in politics, you can never get the best final product during the first go-around. It is always a work in progress.

You take that inch. Then you take the next one... and eventually you get there.

But you have to get your goddamned foot in the door. Tonight, we took a very big step toward getting that foot in the door.



Now all you Kucinich krazies can go and unrec this into oblivion.. I don't give a damn. You're right in your goals, but 100% wrong in your approach. You can't see more than two steps ahead, just like Dennis can't.

[ProleNoMore]

1. Are You Calling Dennis Kucinich Supporters Whiners?

eom

[saltpoint]

3. I like his supporters. I would, however, call Kucinich a grandstander.

[ProleNoMore]

5. So Grandstanding For Principle Is Bad? I Guess It Is Only Good When Ones Personal Agenda Is Defende

eom

[saltpoint]

10. DK is being called for his oppositional conduct this evening.

I don't think too many people were terribly surprised, although certainly they may have been disappointed.

Love his supporters. Have grown weary of his grandstanding.

[ProleNoMore]

15. Conviction To Principles Is A Hallmark Of Character

eom

[saltpoint]

16. No shit.

I'd never heard that.

[ProleNoMore]

17. Kucinich Is A Man Of Character - He Proved That yet Again This Evening

eom

[saltpoint]

20. A strong case could be made for the Little Man Theory, only in political

terms.

Can't affect political influence so asserts ferocity of ego to thwart outcomes.

[scheming daemons]

41. His CONSERVATIVE voting record went up today...

...no matter the reasons, he voted with Boehner and company tonight.


What matters is his vote, not his words.


He gave comfort to the enemy tonight.

[alarimer]

55. yes, Democrats who actually stand for something are "whiners".

Fuck the Democratic party. These people wouldn't know an actual principle if it came and bit them on the ass.

I am so sick of lockstep Democrats, who put the party above people and doing what is right. These same people on this site will crow over selling women down the river yet again just so they can pass "health care reform"

This bill is utter bullshit and is only a giveaway to insurance companies.

All the cheerleading here is making me sick. I am not a Democrat anyone, haven't been since the primaries and the cheerleading for TWO pro-corporate candidates.

[scheming daemons]

4. No... they're naive. Dennis is the whiner.... and he voted with the GOP tonight

Spin it however you want.

He voted with the goddamned teabaggers tonight.

[ProleNoMore]

9. He Voted For Democratic Principles Tonight - How Does That Make Him A Teabagger?

eom

[scheming daemons]

He voted the way the teabaggers wanted him to vote tonight... spin it however you want

Teabaggers are saluting him tonight.

[ProleNoMore]

14. Me Thinks That You Are The One Doing The Spinning - Enjoy Your Spin

eom

[bigtree]

2. so all folks opposed to this legislation are Kuchinians?

this is helpful

[scheming daemons]

8. No... but all Kuchinichians are opposed to this legislation

The other folks who are opposed to this legislation have other names.


Teabaggers
Republicans
Conservatives

[bigtree]

13. idiotic

. . . just trampling on Democrats who have reservations about this terribly compromised political bargain. Shortsighted and destructive, imo.

[BzaDem]

28. You are quite generous. You actually distinguish them. n/t

[Abq_Sarah]

6. Medicare and Social Security

Didn't require us to pay thousands of dollars each year to private companies.

[Fading Captain]

7. Boooo... The corporate dittocrats can kiss my ass

NAFTA.
Corporate Health Insurance Giveaway
Cash for Clunkers for Cars made in Korea and Japan.

You're killing the working class. And you're worse than Republicans, because you actually pretend to care about the working class.

[scheming daemons]

11. Dennis voted with those folks today.... Dennis, figuratively, held hands with teabaggers today

[AllentownJake]

31. and Barack Obama will hold hands with Dick Cheney

when more troops are sent to Afghanistan by that twisted logic.

[aquart]

35. Yes. That's what he'll be doing.

And in both cases, it's wrong.

[scheming daemons]

40. Actually yes.. he would, if he does that

[Fading Captain]

52. No he didn't, Dittocrat

He stood up for a principle.

If you can't get beyond your narrowminded binary (Republican vs Democrat is all you see) outlook, then you aren't worth my time.

[MrModerate]

12. I have a simple analogy. The insurance companies are cancer . . .

But they're invasive. They've compromised the body to the extent that the body's blood supply is sustaining them and -- even worse -- sustaining their growth. What to do? Cut them all out? No. The patient would die. Instead, let's bombard them with radiation and chemicals that target cancer cells and weaken them -- and then cut the shrunken, retreated tumors out.

Any attempt to take the insurance companies out back and shoot them -- as satisfying as that sounds -- would wreck the country's economy. They must be starved and shrunk.

And then get out the knife.

[andym]

19. Interesting-- should be a main post in GD. nt.

[ThomCat]

23. That would be a nice analogy

if this bill didn't guarantee that the insurance industry will become bigger and more profitable. :(

Our own government has decided that nurturing and growing this cancer is their answer to health care.

[bigtree]

27. this bill gives them oxygen

. . . you know what that does to cancer.

[Hello_Kitty]

32. That's inconsistent with any cancer treatment that I'm familiar with.

How does forcing people to support a cancerous industry cause it to shrink and die?

[MrModerate]

51. Analogy can only go so far. Competition will/might but pressure on the industry . . .

Just like chemotherapy and radiation do. Then when the tumor is shrunk it can be cut out and the patient survive.

But like I said, it only goes so far.

[charlie]

18. Lol. Everybody's got have have their own Kucinich vanity thread

Because such a unique angle on Whut Those Guys Already Said deserves a marquee.

Plus, it's like farting, it feels good when there's nothing else to do.

[Sebastian Doyle]

Rendell flunkies bashing a good Democrat like Dennis Kucinich

When did I pass through the wormhole into Hell? :puke:

[Barack_America]

24. Yeah. It seems a lot of people are disappointed he voted with the GOP.

On Democratic Underground, no less.

[sabrina 1]

48. Actually it was Dennies who voted AGAINST the GOP

Nice attempt to spin though. He voted against the parasitic for profit Insurance Industry. The only reason Republicans didn't vote for this bill, as there's a lot for them to love about it, is because they didn't have to. They let Dems do the dirty work for them. They took the blame for the war, now we switched to the other half of the Money Party, who are taking care of bailing out the greedy corporations, Wall St. and the Insurance Industry.

Only a tiny few work for the people in DC. Dennis is one of them.

Now I see how it works. In order to make the public believe we have two parties, they each have their jobs to do. This game they've been playing, with Repubs pretending they didn't like this bill, while Dems pretended they weren't happy about the Wars and Torture etc. keeps both sides happy. The Repubs made their base happy tonight, secure in the knowledge that their friends in the industry would get their big windfall anyhow.

[Kitty Herder]

49. +1

[Barack_America]

58. So he votes against them when he votes with them?

And he votes against them when he votes against them?

How convenient for him.

:eyes:

[AllentownJake]

25. Oh this is a Rendell Flunkie?

You have just explained to me everything I need to know.

[saltpoint]

29. "Rendell flunkies" ?! Good Christ.

[aquart]

37. A good Democrat who gives votes to the Republicans.

Because, see, the Democrats are the enemy.

[tblue]

21. I think a variety of reactions to this vote is perfectly acceptable.

I've been accused of bring a purist (?!) and there's a lot to hate in this bill, but I am celebrating tonight.. I salute the Dems who voted no because they wanted a stronger bill, but I'm really, really happy the Teabaggers and Michelle Batshit Bachmann lost this fight.

I am on the Blue Team and I look forward to fighting to make healthcare more accessible.

[flvegan]

22. More than two steps ahead? He sees a goal.

Unlike the lot of you.

Work in progress my ass. Health care "reform" will be a dead issue. Put the "DONE!" rubber stamp on it and campaign around a big pot of nothing.

[ProSense]

26. Kucinich was left at the gate. He can't take back his vote.

This is the beginning of real reform. Everything from here on out builds on this.

[flvegan]

30. The beginning?

Yeah, okay. Delusional, sad, pathetic.

Praise your spineless and paid-for. That's what the Dem party has become. Ambitious, but rubbish!!

[ProSense]

36. Yes, beginning.

Kucinich supporters are desperately doing damage control. He put himself in an irrelevant place.

[flvegan]

43. Cling to that.

It'll be all you have.

[lonestarnot]

47. I'm clinging too! Just like a slow leak in several sections of the insurance dike! Over time they

grow larger, pretty soon we have a fucking river! :evilgrin:

[villager]

33. The way NAFTA was a "beginning?"

Pardon me if experience compels me to remain unconvinced....

[ProSense]

39. Beginning, as in working to achieve what Truman tried to more than a half century ago. n/t

[villager]

42. Yes, and we can see the inexorable move of the U.S. government towards increasingly humane,

progressive expansions of initially flawed programs. Always the rule, rather than the exception...

Oh wait....

[Birthmark]

34. Personally, I think that a lot of people professing...

...to like this bill and that's it's "a first step" are painting a picture that they'd like to believe.

I also think a lot of people touting passage of the bill don't really give a damn what's included or left out of the bill. I believe that they just wanted to shove something, anything down the Republicans' collective throats. That's a noble goal, imo. They certainly deserve it. But this is (also imo) one crappy piece of legislation.

And I don't believe that there will be a meaningful overall fix in my remaining lifetime. I'm sure that there will be tweaking of some of the things that cause obvious problems, but they'll be precious little progress made towards real health care reform.

Tonight's bill is evidence of that. Why is there no strong public option? The voters wanted it --to the tune of roughly 2/3rds in favor. Yet the PO was politically unviable. The reason is that Congress, not even most Democrats apparently, don't give a damn about the public, or if they do care, it's secondary to the clout of campaign contributions from the insurance lobby.

[Faryn Balyncd]

38. What if we just got our foot stuck in the WRONG door?

The insurance bailout door....

The door that leads to ever-increasing mandated premium increases....

The "screw the middle class" door....

The door economic doom, mandated bankruptcy, and massive voter backlash?




Might we not come to regret this "victory"?

[Iggo]

44. What I see is people whining about Kucinich.

Not the other way around.

[underseasurveyor]

45. +10

Cheers to that:toast:

[Echo In Light]

53. Bingo! (projection, as usual, from rightward leaning types)

[bobburgster]

46. Sometimes you need to vote the big picture.

As admirable as Kucinich sticking to his principles might be, the reality is he voted with the republicans last night.

[Vidar]

50. Kucinich voted against a bail out bill for private insurance.

[donco6]

54. Great. A callout thread first thing in the morning. n/t

[winyanstaz]

56. Kucinich is a man of principles but you wouldnt know about that...

It is NOT alright to throw women's health care under the bus.
You didn't get a foot in the door..you threw a big bone to the insurance companies and threw women under the bus and let the right wingers write laws again.
Your name fits you very well.

[dysfunctional press]

57. how come the repugs never have to do things incrementally when they're in power...?

they always seem to get exactly what they want on the first try.

[L0oniX]

59. Got nothing better to do so you attack those you don't like? Go %@$!&&^ your self.