[NEWS] House health bill would impose jail terms for non-compliance

[Political Heretic]

Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp raised concerns on the health care bill's ability to impose civil and criminal penalties on Americans who do not comply with the mandate on taking up insurance coverage.

If you willfully do not comply with the health insurance mandates set forth in the House health care bill, you could face steep fines and imprisonment sentences of as much as 5 years. The civil and criminal penalties in the House bill have caught the attention of Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp.
In a letter released from the Joint Committee on Taxation, two scenarios were determined that could lead to imprisonment: "Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:


• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.”



MY COMMENTS: Camp is a republican, and no doubt he wants to make hay out of this for nefarious reasons. But Section 7203 and 7201 - that's just plain text from the bill. IF those sections are mis stated, someoen please correct me. But I don't beleive that is the case.

I believe this was the capitulation that was made to the Insurance companies that were furiously lobbying for a criminal jail-time penalty. That's what I'm concerned about from this link, NOT the option of Camp. And that's what is connected to my outraged expressed in the other thread.

[Danger Mouse]

1. Ugh. I just don't understand this. Like, I can't see a good reason for this.

It has me worried.

[vadawg]

4. Can you say political landslide, once this gets out to the general public

this is going to cause a slaughter of anybody who voted for it. I think this is a case of cutting your own throat...

[Mari333]

8. oh its out there...right wing radio has been saying this for weeks

its all over the airwaves, believe me.

[Danger Mouse]

12. It'd be a disaster for the Dems. There's just no way to make that look good.

No way at all.

[rug]

2. That's the only single payer health care provision in the whole bill.

[HughMoran]

3. How many threads

You gonna start on this topic?

You're kind of late to the argument IMO.

[Political Heretic]

5. As many as I fucking feel like.

[HughMoran]

10. Nice

I guess you haven't changed from your rotten self - back to the pile of malcontents for you.

[HughMoran]

11. Nice

I guess you haven't changed from your rotten self - back to the pile of malcontents for you.

[Cash_thatswhatiwant]

16. lol

[Xicano]

30. I am glad you posted this. Thanks Political Heretic

Who cares what the sheep amongst us say. If they want to be blind followers, let them. There are still plenty of us who believe in Democratic values and speaking truth to power.


Peace,
Xicano

[Individualist]

40. Good for you!

:applause:

[BeHereNow]

54. Ignore feature is our FRIEND!

Trust me, I have that one on ignore and my life is so much better for it!!!
BHN

[closeupready]

83. I love that feature, lol.

:rofl:

[JVS]

69. LOL!

[closeupready]

81. Amen. You post as many as it takes.

:hi:

[Mari333]

6. This wont go over very well with the voters in 2010

not when the govt is spending money like drunken pirates for 2 insane wars and bailing out wall street.
the dems are fucking themselves with this one.
when they lose, they can only blame themselves.

[RKP5637]

25. I think the dems are going to face a rough time of it in 2010 and it was

brought on by the dems. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the drift I get from independents I'm spoken with... These endless wars are ridiculous and the dems in congress don't even support their own party in congress. I had hoped the dems would sweep through the legislation needed to make this a better country, but what I see are dems in one camp blocking dems in the other. I had at one time, I guess naively, through we were one strong party now. I fear we will get no place after the 2010 elections. I hope I am wrong.

[Mari333]

38. sigh. maybe this country has to suffer more to wake up.

[and-justice-for-all]

7. Guess I will be going to prison for 5 years..nt

[gateley]

15. Where you'll receive health care! nt

[and-justice-for-all]

39. That's right!!! I forgot...LOL

[Democrats_win]

9. One more time Democrats: drop the mandate!

People at DU have being saying this over and over yet no one listens. Perhaps they will NEXT November. Just say no to sending Americans to jail for existing.

[downeyr]

58. I have to agree with this

I hope they will rethink this in the Senate and take the mandate out. That's just bad juju. If I don't want to pay for health insurance, that's my own business. I don't have any dependents and I'm the one who will pay if I screw myself over because I don't have health insurance.

[Subdivisions]

82. A strong mandate was the trade-off for the pre-existing conditions issue. I'd bet money on it,

despite being too broke to afford insurance.

[Angry Dragon]

13. Free health care in prison

and they take you with pre-existing conditions

[JustinL]

14. those sections are NOT from the health care bill

They're from the Internal Revenue Code. The claim that people would be jailed for lack of health insurance was rated "Barely True" by PolitiFact back in September.

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/29/patients-first/conservative-group-says-youll-be-imprisoned-not-ha/

[vadawg]

18. barely true, is that better than barely false or maybe false...

what the hell does barely true tell us........ simply are there fines for not paying for coverage, if yes then what happens if you dont pay the fines..... answer you go to jail

[kelly1mm]

47. ... Or barely pregnant? nt

[JustinL]

59. read the link and you'll see what they mean by "Barely True" n/t

[white cloud]

20. FYI got this email

Today, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI) released a letter from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) confirming that the failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail. The JCT letter makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153583

[robinlynne]

29. mandate tax? Did he make that up?

[JustinL]

33. those exact same issues are addressed at the PolitiFact link n/t

[Mari333]

21. but

'Initially, the Senate version would have had families above 300 percent of the federal poverty level pay $3,800 a year if they did not have health insurance. Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., later agreed to lower that amount by half, to $1,900. Backers hope that no American actually pays the tax; they want to see people spending those dollars on health insurance instead.

Still, Ensign is among those who balk at the idea. "Some people hold the Constitution pretty high in their lives, and if they believe that this thing is unconstitutional and they then say ... 'I choose not to have health insurance. I'm not going to buy it,'" Ensign said at a markup of the contentious bill. "We could be subjecting those very people ... to fines or the interpretation of a judge potentially all the way up even to imprisonment."'

people could still be jailed for not paying extra taxes if they dont buy insurance. punished with extra taxes. this will not bode well, the govt punishing people for not buying health insurance by extra taxation.

still a bad idea.

[Political Heretic]

23. If I'm too poor to afford insurance I'm too poor to pay a tax penalty.

That means I'm going to jail - essentially, for being too poor to live in the US.

Which brings the argument full circle. This is where you say, "but there will be subsidies for people who can't afford to pay for insurance."

The federal definitions of "affordable" are a joke, and the subsidies suggesting in this bill are laughable. They are simply not enough to actually make real health care "affordable" for many working class American families, including my own.

Not to mention the fact that the subsidies that are in this bill are even less that was was originally suggested in committee, and even those weren't enough.

I don't know how you fail to see the direct connection. It is overwhelmingly poor people who are going to be hassled by the IRS and/or face prison.

The only way that a "mandate" works, is when you have Medicare for Everyone. Without that single payer, you end up with terrible shit like this where people end up going to jail.

It will be the new story instead of the preexisting condition stories we hear now. "I couldn't afford my fee and so I was sent to jail." That's just great.


I can not believe that with a Democratic controlled House, a Democratic controlled Senate, a Democratic President, a Majority of Democratic State Governors and a majority of the population currently identify as Democrat or Independent, that we have a bill that targets working class Americans more harshly than the insurance industry.

[Mari333]

31. with more poor people in jail, the privatized prisons will have cheaper slave labour

and that makes multinational corporations very happy.

[NoUsername]

78. Gotta disagre with you here.

You said:

"I can not believe that with a Democratic controlled House, a Democratic controlled Senate, a Democratic President, a Majority of Democratic State Governors and a majority of the population currently identify as Democrat or Independent, that we have a bill that targets working class Americans more harshly than the insurance industry."

I can believe it.

[NYC_SKP]

49. Yay, the Bullshit is unravelled. Not in HR 3962.

Damn these misleading OPs.

:nuke:

[Political Heretic]

62. How many fucking times do I have to say this?

IF I'M TOO POOR TO AFFORD INSURANCE, I'M TOO POOR TO PAY A TAX FEE.

Now instead, I get to have the IRS come after me, with threat of jail, because I can't afford health insurance with the meager subsidy rates suggested in this bill.

WHAT PART OF THAT DONT YOU FUCKING GET?



"but but, if you cant afford insurance you'll get a subsidy!"

The federal definitions of "affordable" are a joke, and the subsidies suggesting in this bill are laughable. They are simply not enough to actually make real health care "affordable" for many working class American families, including my own.

Not to mention the fact that the subsidies that are in this bill are even less that was was originally suggested in committee, and even those weren't enough.

I can not believe that with a Democratic controlled House, a Democratic controlled Senate, a Democratic President, a Majority of Democratic State Governors and a majority of the population currently identify as Democrat or Independent, that we have a bill that targets working class Americans more harshly than the insurance industry.

That's just fucking great.

Not that I'm really surprised, because I'm smarter than that. I'm just disgusted anyway.

[NYC_SKP]

65. It would be fine if that's what your post had said. But it cited language that isn't in the bill.

It hurts your credibility and greatly dilutes your point.

I wish you'd have cited a reliable source.

[NYC_SKP]

70. See also this: "Drudge, WND distort health care bill...

Drudge, WND distort health care bill to fearmonger about cost of insurance, possibility of jail time"
November 07, 2009 11:10 pm ET — 0 Comments

Matt Drudge and WorldNetDaily.com both falsely asserted that, in Drudge's words, the House health care reform bill states that people must "buy a $15,000 policy or go to jail." In fact, as stated by the Joint Committee on Taxation letter on which Drudge's and WND's claims are based, the bill does not impose criminal penalties on people merely for failing to purchase health insurance; rather, people who do not buy health insurance and also willfully refuse to pay the tax imposed on them for such actions can face civil or criminal penalties.


Drudge, WND falsely claim bill requires people to buy insurance or go to jail

Drudge: "PELOSI: Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail; Failure to Comply, 5 Years in Prison." From the Drudge Report (click on image to enlarge):



drudge

WND: "Confirmed: Buy insurance or go to jail." WorldNetDaily.com headlined a November 6 article by Bob Unruh "Confirmed: Buy insurance or go to jail." The subheadline read, "'This is ultimate example of Dems command-and-control government.' " Unruh's first paragraph read: "A Michigan congressman has released a report from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation confirming that the House Democrats' health-care bill could impose penalties of up to $250,000 in fines and five years in jail for failing to buy the proper insurance coverage." <11/6/09>
Claim that people will go to jail for failure to buy insurance is false

Contradicting headline, lead sentence, Unruh himself notes that criminal penalty is for those who fail to pay tax, not those who fail to buy insurance. The eighth paragraph of Unruh's article states: "According to Camp , the JCT letter makes clear that Americans who do not maintain 'acceptable health insurance coverage' and who choose not to pay the bill's new individual mandate tax 'are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminals fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years' " .

Penalty for failure to purchase insurance is a tax, not jail time. Indeed, as Unruh acknowledged in his eighth paragraph, Section 501 of the bill provides that an individual must be "covered by acceptable coverage at all times." "Acceptable coverage" includes "qualified health benefits plan coverage," "grandfathered health insurance coverage," "Medicare," "Medicaid," coverage provided to members of the armed forces and their dependants, "coverage under the veteran's health care program," people who receive health care "through the Indian Health Service," or other coverage deemed acceptable by the Secretary of Health and Human Services. If a person does not have acceptable health care coverage, Section 501 imposes a tax on that person "not to exceed the applicable national average premium":

http://mediamatters.org/research/200911070007

[Autumn]

17. And they sic the IRS on you too.

Hell of a fucking collection agency.

"The Insurance Industry Profit Protection Act of 2009"

[Enrique]

19. links for any of this?

and has a single credible (e.g., non-republican would be nice) person raised concerns about this?

[OregonBlue]

27. Agreed. Is this in the bill or is it part of internal revenue code? where is it in the bill?

[Political Heretic]

32. As I said, the applicable sections are listed right there.

[Garbo 2004]

61. Have you looked at HR 3962 to confirm those sections are there?

Bill text available here: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3962:

[Political Heretic]

63. I think you're misunderstanding me

Those are sections of the Tax code - the House Bill fines tax fee of 2.5% your income. Failure to pay that results in the IRS attack dogs coming after you with 25,000 - 200,000 fine and/or 1 - 5 years in prison.

So I'll say again:

If I can't afford insruance even with the meager subsidies offered in this bill, then I can't afford the penalty either. That means I face the IRS attack squad and jail.

"But but, if you cant afford insurance you'll get a subsidy!"

The federal definitions of "affordable" are a joke, and the subsidies suggested in this bill are laughable. They are simply not enough to actually make real health care "affordable" for many working class American families, including my own.

Not to mention the fact that the subsidies that are in this bill are even less that was was originally suggested in committee, and even those weren't enough.

THE ONLY WAY MANDATES REALLY WORK IS WHEN YOU HAVE A SINGLE PAYER / MEDICARE FOR EVERYONE SYSTEM where the money to pay for it is appropriated through taxation. When you mandate that people BUY insurance, you garuntee that some people won't be able to afford it, and unless you make the subsidies 100% coverage of cost up to 250% of the poverty line, you basically have no hope of making it "affordable" for everyone.

[Garbo 2004]

66. Not misunderstanding: in your OP you stated they were sections of the bill:

"But Section 7203 and 7201 - that's just plain text from the bill. IF those sections are mis stated, someoen please correct me. But I don't beleive that is the case." http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6955395&mesg_id=6955395

[Political Heretic]

74. Actually my OP said, "if...misstated, someoen(sic) please correct me."

And I corrected myself... down below.

And the whole point of my objection remains exactly the same, so.... :shrug:

[Garbo 2004]

75. So you were wrong in saying I misunderstood your OP. You posted incorrrect info

& were corrected. Don't lay if off on other people "misunderstanding" your OP when you post incorrect info.

[Autumn]

22. #5 off you go

Thank you

[BzaDem]

24. WHY IN THE WORLD are Democrats quoting this BS

If you don't get health insurance, you have a 2.5% tax. The above penalties only apply if you do NOT pay your taxes. Just like they would if you didn't pay any other portion of your taxes.

They do NOT apply simply because you don't have health insurance.

UGH!

[Mari333]

26. so you are punished with higher taxes for not buying health insurance

I say BULLshit.

[BzaDem]

42. This has been known for a year.

Cry me a river. Anyone who can't afford it is completely exempt from the mandate AND subsidized.

[Mari333]

44. link?

[Mari333]

45. link?

[Political Heretic]

64. They are not exempt from the mandate. And they are not sufficiently subsidized.

No individual of family is exempt from the mandate. However, those who can't afford insurance are to be taken care of by subsidies. The trouble is in the definition of "afford."

The subsidy is not 100%, and it does not cover enough people, so that a family of four making 150% above the federal poverty level living in Boston would not qualify for a 100% subsidy for insurance, but their local cost of living would be so extremely high that they would effectively be in worse shape than someone living in cheaper part of the country....

They still won't be able to afford health care.

They will be fined.

And what happens when they can't afford to pay the fine?

Well after being hounded by the IRS, the penalties are laid out verbatim in the OP.

[Political Heretic]

34. If I'm too poor to afford insurance I'm too poor to pay a tax penalty.

[vadawg]

36. lol so the end result is the same, just we have it nuanced a bit better.

[marketcrazy1]

46. so are you saying

that if a person paid all their taxes EXCEPT for the 2.5 percent FINE, they would not face criminal penalties???? and this IS a FINE! not a TAX! they just rolled it into the tax code so it would be easier to collect...

[bob4460]

28. Can you say .......

UNFUCKING BELIEVABLE!!!! MASSIVE CIVIL UNREST!!!

[SammyWinstonJack]

86. I think most of us can. This stinks! Bet the private prison industry is doing the

happy dance right along with the blood sucking health insurance companies! Great CHANGE there. What a crock of shit! :grr:

[NYC_SKP]

35. I'm looking for that language in the text of HR 3962 and cannot find it.

I'm working on it still using the browser word search, but no luck yet.

A Google of the text takes me places like conservativeunderground.us.

:shrug:

Editing to add link to bill I am searching: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3962/text

[Xicano]

37. AMERICA THE FREE!!!!!!

:sarcasm:

[babylonsister]

41. Link?? Come on. Your word isn't good enough...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6955256&mesg_id=6955299

[ProSense]

43. There is no section 7203 in the health care bill. n/t

[NYC_SKP]

48. FUCKING THANK YOU!!! I'm looking and not finding it. Googling links to shithead sites.

Like conservativeunderground and politico.

Google "Section 7203" results: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&num=100&newwindow=1&q=3962+%22section+7203%22&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

see for yourselves.

See also this:

Wordy lies about the House Bill. Here's the link
by kunigunda
11/07/2009, 10:27 AM #
Reply

LIE
• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.
• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.”

TRUTH:
There is no section 7203 or 7201 in H.R. 3962. It ends at 3205.
Do a word search and you'll find "felony" only once in the bill, and you won't find "evasion" anywhere.
The only reference to "prison" is that prisoners are not eligible under the bill, and government officials who release confidential information can be imprisoned.

http://www.slate.com/discuss/forums/3406552/ShowThread.aspx

:nuke:

[Th1onein]

67. So the "fine" and the prison shit is all bullshit?

Hmmm....

[Political Heretic]

72. Um.... no, not in the slightest.

Those sections are from the Tax code, not the bill.

The bill, however - everyone will agree because this I have confirmed as absolute fact, thanks to the Coalition on Human Needs and Center on American Progress - assesses a 2.5% of your income tax fine if do not get insurance.

If you're too poor to get insurance, than your too poor to pay that fine. The consequences of that - as I well know, having been more for more than a little bit of my life, is the IRS after you, and as stated - 25,000 to 250,000 in fines and/or 1 to 5 years in prison.

Now that's not supposed to happen to anyone because there are supposed to be subsidies for poor individuals and families who can't afford insurance. The problem is, those subsidies aren't necessarily 100% and they are not broad enough.

See my other posts on this for more info.

[Roland99]

80. Those are section of IRS code. If one doesn't buy an insurance policy. One is TAXED 2.5%

Don't pay taxes, you go to jail!

How much simpler does it need to be?



Section 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.

‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—
(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross in come for the taxable year, over
(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer."

‘‘(b) LIMITATIONS.—
‘(1) TAX LIMITED TO AVERAGE PREMIUM.—
‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—The tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect to any tax payer for any taxable year shall not exceed the applicable national average premium for such taxable year.

[babylonsister]

50. DU is being played by this guy? UNREC. nt

[NYC_SKP]

52. OP-"But Section 7203 and 7201 - that's just plain text from the bill." Is a Lie.

Maybe not a lie by the DU member posting, but certainly a lie from the source.

Poster should ask moderators to delete.

:patriot:

[Garbo 2004]

51. You still haven't checked the source material, the bill itself, have you? nt

[nini]

53. did you get that in a freeper email?

:eyes:

[white cloud]

60. debunk help appreciated PELOSI: Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail

here is the thread posting it

PELOSI: Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail

http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1020804/PELOSI_Buy_a_15_000_Policy_or_#Post1020804

[Political Heretic]

73. This part is not being disputed by anyone:

“acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years."

That part is true.

What's being omitted is what the definition of "acceptable health coverage" is and the fact that the bill contains subsidies for low-income persons who can't afford health care premiums*


*The caveat to that, described in all my other posts, is that the subsidies that made it into the bill that went to the floor are very modest. They will, I believe, leave many Americans still unable to afford health care.... then slapped with a tax fine they also can't afford, then have the IRS on them for prosecution.

I KNOW that's not what the Democrats desire. But that's where we're headed at the moment.

[nini]

55. did you get that in a freeper email?

:eyes:

[SoCalDem]

56. I don't really see this happening, for many reasons.

IF someone is making enough money to "afford" coverage, they probably already have it, and if their income is too low to afford it, they would be eligible for assistance.

This probably HAD to be in the bill to placate some group, but will not be enforced all that much. There will be a whole long list of criteria set forth, for people to be measured for affordability.

Once a unified bill is passed and signed into law, there will be a whole bunch of tweaks too.

Small employers who now "cover" employees will probably be the first test-cases, as they try to move their people over to a public plan. IF they are "mandated" to also compensate their employees for the wages they have lost due to constant increases for the "boss" share of medical, it will be a win-win, and will show up in paychecks as a net gain. Once that happens , even a little, the plan will be well-received.

[lumberjack_jeff]

57. Tax evasion is a bad thing.

Sounds good to me.

[JVS]

68. We should really congratulate our leaders on getting a bill passed.

Unfortunately, if this bill is as bad as it looks, they're going to be stuck with the blame for really fucking things up.

[Political Heretic]

71. ATTENTION: CLARIFICATION ON SECTION 7203 and 7201.

I wrote in the OP:

MY COMMENTS: Camp is a republican, and no doubt he wants to make hay out of this for nefarious reasons. But Section 7203 and 7201 - that's just plain text from the bill. IF those sections are mis stated, someone please correct me. But I don't believe that is the case.

My first mistake is that I didn't even remember that I had writing "that's the text from the bill" after I had already gotten that clarified in another thread. So I didn't get this clarification up sooner.

Hey hey, thanks to everyone who called me a liar, and the messages telling me to go fuck myself or die - those were really appreciated.

So - the clarification: Section 7203 and 7201 are from the Tax Code. The House Bill fines you 2.5% of your income as a tax fine.


Again - Section 7203 and 7201 are from the Tax Code


Now, here's what Rep. Pete DeFozio's office said to me when I called them today.
They said that while Rep. Defozio was planning to vote for the bill, they were concerned about the reduced size of subsidies for individuals and families who can't afford insurance.

According to their office, via my conversation - the concern (which the lady said they hope is resolved in conference) is that people too poor to afford coverage may continue to be too poor even with the subsides as they stand, which do not cover enough people (go enough beyond the wholly insufficient federal poverty guidelines - that's my commentary) and that people could end up with the IRS at their door.

The lady's main response to my question was ultimately that these are details that can be worked out in conference, and that the overall bill is good.

Now, here's what I have to say about it.
And the point I thought people were going to understand regardless of whether or not the penalty language is in this bill or is guaranteed to be triggered by this bill:

If I can't afford insurance even with the meager subsidies offered in this bill, then I can't afford the penalty either. That means I face the IRS attack squad and jail.

"But but, if you cant afford insurance you'll get a subsidy!"

The federal definitions of "affordable" are a joke, and the subsidies suggested in this bill are laughable. They are simply not enough to actually make real health care "affordable" for many working class American families, including my own.

Not to mention the fact that the subsidies that are in this bill are even less that was was originally suggested in committee, and even those weren't enough.

THE ONLY WAY MANDATES REALLY WORK IS WHEN YOU HAVE A SINGLE PAYER / MEDICARE FOR EVERYONE SYSTEM where the money to pay for it is appropriated through taxation. When you mandate that people BUY insurance, you guarantee that some people won't be able to afford it, and unless you make the subsidies 100% coverage of cost up to 250% of the poverty line, you basically have no hope of making it "affordable" for everyone.

[Garbo 2004]

76. Bill also provides for an exemption process:

Sec. 501, subpart A, Section 59B

(f) Regulations- The Secretary shall prescribe such regulations or other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to carry out the purposes of this section, including regulations or other guidance (developed in coordination with the Health Choices Commissioner) which provide--

(1) exemption from the tax imposed under subsection (a) in cases of de minimis lapses of acceptable coverage, and

(2) a waiver of the application of subsection (a) in cases of hardship, including a process for applying for such a waiver.

BTW, I'm for single payer public universal health care. Just think it's a bit premature to say that passage of this bill in the House will result in the working poor being thrown into jail.

[Sparkly]

77. "Punishable" doesn't mean it's an automatic mandatory minimum sentence, sheesh...

States don't actually like to spend money jailing people...

I think this is the least of the problems to be concerned about. The fact that the money goes to insurance companies is a bigger one.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

79. K&R

[havocmom]

84. Debtors' prison for the underpaid uninsured and uninsureable

The corporations are doing quite well in their purchase of slaves via contributions to politicians.

[L0oniX]

85. If true ...these are poison pills by design.

[roody]

87. I predict a surge in civil disobedience.