This country would have been much better off if all the Puritans sank from hitting an iceberg

[MrScorpio]

No wonder they got kicked out of Europe

[Solly Mack]

1. LOL! Love it

[Politicub]

2. LOL - imagine how different things would have been

but we may not have made it to where we are now -- butterfly flapping its wings in south america and all that rot.

[lunatica]

3. Right on!

Hammer meets nail.

[dsc]

4. uh actually the decendents of the Puritans are the secular New Englanders

while the decendents of the decadant and secular Jefferson and Madison are the very religious Southerners.

[MrScorpio]

8. The New Englanders built and owned the slave ships

Plenty of blame to go around

[imdjh]

21. The Baptists originate in New England.

[LostInAnomie]

5. No we wouldn't.

They might have been total assholes, but their influence helped to greatly shape our system of governance and education.

[RB TexLa]

6. This country would have been much better off without the National Origins Quota of 1924

and Immigration Act of 1917. It would have been far less anglo and a much better place.

[imdjh]

29. It would have been better off without Texas.

[anonymous171]

51. I thought that was designed to keep Eastern Europeans out?

And why are anglos so bad?

[stray cat]

7. You wouldn't be here... so maybe you are right

[katsy]

9. lol

k/r

[LeftyMom]

10. Meh. I'm kinda fond of one of their great-great-great (this goes on a while) grandsons.

:shrug:

[Zynx]

11. Compared to the Virginia colonists, I would rather be with the Puritans.

[donco6]

25. Hey - my ancestors originated in Jamestown.

I'm sure I was not what they envisioned.

[imdjh]

33. Let's see. A bunch of guys known as "reprobates of good families". Sounds kind of gay to me.

[imdjh]

30. You must be kidding. The Jamestown gang were party boys. The nation's first bar was in Jamestown.

[Zynx]

37. Yeah and the life expectancy was about 25 years shorter.

[imdjh]

42. At birth, but many lived modern lifespans.

Most of my male ancestors lived into their 70's and 80's, some into their 90's. Surely some died young, but the life expectancy at reproductive age was a lot longer than at birth, and at 40 was close to today's average for all persons, a little lower than today's average for white males. Women weren't so lucky, but if they lived past their child bearing years, often lived into their 80's.

My grandfathers were two of the youngest men in my family to die. Not surprisingly, both smoked packaged cigarettes for many years. Both died of heart attack.

[Zynx]

44. It is not in dispute that the Puritans lived longer and healthier lives than the VA colonists.

They also were better educated and suffered from less crime. I'm willing to give up certain things for that.

[imdjh]

45. Do tell us about the superiority of witch burning fundie morons.

[MrScorpio]

46. You just made me laugh!

[imdjh]

47. What a nice way to end the day. :)

[JVS]

12. I'm not sure I agree with your analysis. Religious weirdos like the Puritains and the Quakers...

mellowed into the tolerant North East. Similarly pain in the ass Dutch and Swiss Calvinists became the most peaceful people in Europe.

The impious Virginia colony and its subsequent expansions were all about the money and seem to have added religion some time in the 19th century when all the thrifty Calvinists up North had made their area into a backwater through industrialization.

[MrScorpio]

13. The Dutch Calvinists of Western Michigan haven't changed one bit

They still have sticks firmly inserted in their asses

[JVS]

15. Well, anal as they may be, I've never had a Calvinist try to get me to be born again.

They're content to let God decide who believes and not pester me about it.

[imdjh]

34. That's 'cause you're going to hell anyway, so why bother?

[JVS]

39. But if nobody wants to talk to you about your going to hell, does it really matter?

It's like a tree falling in the woods with nobody around to hear it.

[FarCenter]

14. New Amsterdam and Pennsylvania were the most tolerant colonies

It's unfortunate that the Dutch were kicked out by the Brits.

The Island at the Center of the World: The Epic Story of Dutch Manhattan and the Forgotten Colony That Shaped America

[eShirl]

17. Are you saying the "Pennsylvania Dutch" were Dutch?

[FarCenter]

32. The Pennsylvania Dutch were low German, but there were Swedish and Dutch colonies on the Delaware

Pennsylvania Quakers were more tolerant of the other ethnic groups and the native Americans than most other colonies.

[cynatnite]

16. Hey, wait a minute...I resent that! Oh, never mind...you're right. n/t

[philly_bob]

18. REC for humor & a kernel of truth about American politics. /nt

[OnionPatch]

19. Read the book Albion's Seed

And a great analysis of it regarding modern politics was written by Jane Smiley:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-smiley/janes-bingo-award-for-mos_b_37415.html

[XemaSab]

22. This is EXACTLY the book I was heading to the bottom of the thread to pimp

Seriously, I'd rather hang with the Puritans than anyone else at that time period.

I really liked the part about the Puritans going on massive benders after someone died, and drunken toddlers falling into open graves. :D

[OnionPatch]

24. I thought the Quakers sounded ok.

Out of all of them. They were anti-war and didn't believe in an elite over-class.

[MrScorpio]

26. Same here

I like the Quakers the best

[coalition_unwilling]

38. I actually would have preferred the AnaBaptists - they believed that

since the Supreme Being had already decided who was saved and who was damned, they might as well do what they pleased!

Two notes: 1) AnaBaptism was ruled a heresy and brutally suppressed by Calvin's adherents, IIRC and 2) Yossarian, in Joseph Heller's "Catch 22," is an AnaBaptist.

[diane in sf]

48. thank you, that's a great article/summary of Seeds of Albion. I wish more

people here would read it, so they'd know what they are talking about when they start ignorantly slamming Puritans.

To add more info: San Francisco, Seattle and Chicago (and most of the urban areas in the Northern Tier) were settled and subsequently influenced by Puritans. They are strong union towns and they vote blue. The borderers are largely the trailer trash and evangelicals that live from the Southeast, through Texas, Oklahoma and into Southern California (sorry my prejudices are hanging out here).

I'm a descendant of Puritans from New England and Quakers from Pennsylvania.

[OnionPatch]

49. I have ancestors in all four categories.

Some of my borderer g-grandparents/ancestors were actually more liberal than my Puritan ancestors in more recent generations, though. I wonder if the effects aren't more of a regional mindset these days.

[diane in sf]

53. I think you are right--that the attitudes are influenced by a regional mindset,

you get a critical mass of smart people and good information in some areas (mostly urban) and in others you get a critical mass of AM radio and religious propaganda, not a lot of schooling and depressed economics leading to inability to rise above one's birth station.

[Chulanowa]

20. Now now, be nice

This country would have been much better off if the smallpox vaccine had been invented before the unwashed cheese-eating hordes decided to overstay their welcome.

That was we could have just kicked them back into the Atlantic :D

[kwassa]

23. but but but .... then I wouldn't be here!

In 1636 both sides of my family came into the Massachusetts Bay Colony.

My mother's side were founders of Roxbury.

and slavers came from all cultures, unfortunately.

[Lars39]

27. I'm ready to shove them all of a damn cliff.

They can bootstrap themselves to the damn floe. :grr:

[WillyT]

28. Damn... One Well Timed Hurricane Or Nor'Easter And...

life would have been sooooo much better.

:evilgrin:

K & R !!!

[tabasco]

31. I wish more witches had come over instead.

[MrScorpio]

35. And more crooks and prostitutes too...

Instead of being shipped off to Australia

[Cirque du So-What]

36. No puritans in my family

although some of my ancestors fled western PA during the Whiskey Rebellion. They managed to stay ahead of George Washington's advancing army & relocated to KY, where they commenced making whiskey with corn outside the sphere of Federal influence for several more generations. A strong dislike for regressive taxation - against which I still rail - made its way down to me, then on to my children.

[coalition_unwilling]

40. ROTFLMAO - Thanks for that. Coffee came out my nose - n/t

[paulsby]

41. bwahahahahaha!

you are kidding me right?

[Union Label]

43. You get an UNREC for that remark

Some of us here had relatives that were there.

[SeattleGirl]

50. Haha!

Got that right, MrS!

[Blue_Tires]

52. Doesn't that mean the Spaniards would have run most, if not all of the show?