So if EVERYONE has to be in the system for HCR to work

[Hello_Kitty]

Why is it okay to exclude undocumented immigrants?

Either EVERYONE has to be in the program for it to work.

Or EVERYONE doesn't.


Also, if the bill specifically excludes undocumented people, does that mean that the ones who are currently covered by an individual or group policy or on Medicaid get thrown off their coverage?

[Davis_X_Machina]

1. It isn't ok...it's stupid.

But it's politically expedient.

Bashing immigrants is fun. Explaining actuarial principles to people who admire immigrant bashing is hard.

[Hello_Kitty]

3. Right but I'm not talking to those people. I'm talking to people on DU

Who insist that EVERYONE must be covered or reform will never work. To many here, it's the single most important component of any reform. It is absolutely non-negotiable. Yet, funnily enough, they're willing to negotiate on this particular detail.

[iamjoy]

2. Funny Little Inconsistency, No?

I noticed this myself that it was a sort of hypocrisy by the Democrats.

Here's the story: Every one must have coverage. Even if the government has to help pay for it. This is good and will save money in the long run because when people don't get the care they need through the Emergency Room - which is more expensive.

Problem: Undocumented Immigrants are not eligible for government assistance. Undocumented immigrants will not get routine care. Undocumented Immigrants will wait until the problem is severe and go to the ER. We will have to pay for it.

I don't think any undocumented workers are currently covered by Medicaid or any other government program - unless they are using a fraudulent SSN

[Hello_Kitty]

6. Actually in many states they are. Or at the very least their children.

It looks like this bill would kick children off of their health coverage because of their legal status. Nice. Real progressive.

[BzaDem]

4. All the bill does is prevent subsidies from going to undocumented immigrants.

It does not prevent them from getting insurance, it does not cause them to lose their individual or group policy they have now, and it does not restrict eligibility for Medicaid.

[Hello_Kitty]

7. How many landscapers and hotel maids will be able to afford full-price insurance?

And my understanding is that Medicaid would be getting subsidies because eligibility would be expanded.

[Enrique]

5. i'm almost positive it's better economically to include them

but politically, there's tons of people out there that see the costs of including the undocumenteds, but don't do the little bit of extra thinking required to realize that those undocumenteds will be treated if they get sick, which will also cost money.

[Hello_Kitty]

8. I agree and I'm not arguing that point.

I'm just wondering how the DUers who are so insistent on a mandate reconcile this inconsistency.

[Oregone]

9. I'm not sure why its kosher to exploit their cheap labor and exclude them from health care

It only institutionalizes their slave status. They are only as valuable as their ability to stay healthy.

[Hello_Kitty]

11. And it will make them afraid to seek medical care.

Being uninsured will be de facto evidence that one is undocumented. I guess this is a great new enforcement tool. :sarcasm:

[CTyankee]

14. and the exploiters are happy to continue to exploit but not to include them in health care.

It's immoral and defeats the purpose of having them here in the first place. If you don't have a healthy workforce, what do you think will happen? It's stupid.

[Merchant Marine]

10. If they'll pay their share...

Include them. If not, they shouldn't get anything.

[Hello_Kitty]

12. But they're not able to. That's the point of my OP. eom

[Merchant Marine]

17. At the last job I worked

The kitchen staff was all undocumented. They paid their payroll taxes to a made up SS #. They should get the benefit from that.

[CTyankee]

15. But if they can't pay and get sick and come to work, YOU may be exposed to H1N1 or something

else. How smart is this?

[Merchant Marine]

18. What?

I may be exposed to "Swine Flu" every day. Hell, I was on a training cruise this summer where 4 people had it. Didn't worry me much to be stuck on a 500ft ship with the pig terror.

[CTyankee]

19. Glad you are OK. My point wasn't that anybody can be exposed to Swine Flu

only that people without health insurance tend not to be kept very healthy. Common sense tells you that it's not a good thing from a public health perspective...

[roakes10190]

13. Pallone

Rep Pallone was asked that at markup last night and he said exactly that but he added that it wasn't politically wise to include illegals. The illegals can keep going to the ER and costing the taxpayers.

[CTyankee]

16. Stupid.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: