Orlando shooter "could no longer afford (mental health) treatment" after losing job & insurance

[nashville_brook]

While the motives for the Ft. Hood killer are still unknown, it's pretty clear what happened in Orlando yesterday. Jason Rodriguez, the laid-off draftsman who shot 6 and killed 1 person at his former place of employment, had serious mental health issues that had gone untreated because of lack of health care. The Orlando Sentinel today reports that his former mother-in-law said that she always believed he'd go "on a shooting rampage if he had not been taking medication."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-jason-rodriguez-bio-orlando-shooting,0,2152879.story

But out of work and with no money, Rodriguez could no longer afford treatment, Holloway said.

"The man was normal with his medication," she said. "When he didn't take his medication, he was paranoid. He thought everyone was after him."

This guy is clearly no sweetheart, he doesn't deserve our sympathy. But this story is a perfect example of why universal health care with full mental health provisions, is so damn critical. Untreated mental health patients are a threat to the rest of us.

We should be providing "robust" health care to all people, because we all should have the right not to live in fear of unmedicated mental health patients randomly killing innocent people. You'd think that "enlightened self-interest" would be enough of an argument for providing adequate/basic health services which include treatment/medication for mental health problems.

[johnfunk]

1. The takeaway: Mental health care REDUCES violent crime.

Time for someone to say it...

[peace frog]

5. What also needs to be said

Too many of our elected officials in a position to make a difference in bringing mental health care to the people who need it DO NOT CARE ENOUGH TO MAKE THAT DIFFERENCE. Their corporate masters have so decreed, and they know which side of the bread their butter is on.

[nashville_brook]

25. one of the things i liked about tipper gore was her advocacy for mental health.

the mentally ill are the epitome of the leaderless underclass. no one, it seems, goes out on a limb to advocate for better care. i really believe that if anything is ever going to change it's got to come from an "enlightened self interest" standpoint. that, we need to take advantage of the teaching moment situations like the one in here in orlando present.

[nashville_brook]

6. it impacts every level of society -- it's not just the rare, random office shooter,

it's the ever-present crazy homeless people. it's the family member who can't lift themselves out of depression. it's the psychotic who blends-in at the college pub (until a few co-eds disappear). it's the young single mother with bipolar disorder who losing her children b/c she cant' care for herself or her family.

mental health is the last thing that mentioned in all our health care debates, and the issue that presents the worst threat to our immediate security.

[nightrain]

2. knr. Affordable and available emotional healthcare services are essential to a humane society.

[Cirque du So-What]

3. Even among those who HAVE medical insurance

mental health problems either aren't covered or a lower percentage of costs are covered than for 'physical' problems. People with mental health problems are already stigmatized by society, and the insurance companies benefit from it by either denying coverage or minimizing it.

[nashville_brook]

9. there is no incentive for treating mental health in our current system.

[dixiegrrrrl]

4. Those near Orlando who REALLY know, pls. tell me

are there no Mental Health Clinics there any more?
I worked as Mental Health Therapist in No. Fla. and here in Al.
The services were free to those who could not pay.
We treated many clients who had the classic psychotic symptoms, and followed up on them to be sure they were ok.
But, long time since i worked in Fla. and have no idea what Jeb may have done.
Here in Al., as I type this, the MH clinic is 1/2 mile from me and still going strong.

[peace frog]

7. Free mental health care in Florida?

You've got to be fucking kidding. The best one can find is offered on a sliding fee scale, and it would appear Mr. Rodriguez did not have the means to afford the fee determined by the clinics in his area.

[nashville_brook]

8. i've not had to deal with the mental health system since i was a child, when i had a family member

who needed constant attention. the problem 20-some years ago was that the services were few and far between and it was all too easy to fall out of the system and be lost for months with no treatment.

i'm sure it's worse now. the services are so scarce that you have to be first in line and completely on top of your game in order to get any help. crazy people without family members there to do all the work are the last people able to jump thru all the hoop, and run thru all the obstacles to treatment.

but, i'd love to hear more from someone who is conversant with the system as it exists now. and, i'm sure the Sentinel will be having more coverage on this... stay tuned. maybe something good can come from this.

[lupinella]

20. Orlando resident here

When I lost my health insurance last year, I looked into the options open to me. The best choice was a sliding scale clinic that would set you up with a therapist and have your medication be 're-evaluated' by one of their doctors.
One visit made me never go back. It was crowded, oppressive and noisy. They wanted to change a medication regime that works great. The therapist was punching a clock.
I work four part time jobs to make ends meet. I have had times when I've had to choose between food and my medication.
It is quite frustrating,

[nashville_brook]

23. ...

i am so sorry. this is very familiar to me. the "system" is so broken once you look for these services, that you realize that the energy/money to stay in the program won't be worth it b/c they're not equipped to care for you once you're there. i have chronic pain issues, and it's hard enough to get treatment WITH insurance -- without going into a public assistance situation. and, the reason why is also connected to the overall brokenness of the system. it's affecting everyone, but it's affecting those of us with the least resources the most, b/c they're just "disappeared" from the system. problem solved (as far as the state is concerned).

[eilen]

21. My BIL is mentally ill (bipolar, psychotic features, OCD, ADD, --

and a serious self medicater-- had overdone the anabolic steroids, and used other drugs) if my MIL was not there to advocate and push for help for him, he would have been dead by now, and quite possibly, if he was on a psychotic break, he could have been dangerous. I recall one trip to Disney World with him in which I seriously was concerned about his verbal ideations. He literally had no self awareness, was paranoid and hyperactive and his behavior was off the wall. When he would get treated, his medications were frequently denied from Florida Medicaid and my MIL would apply for pharmaceutical company grants and financially supplement so he could get them. Eventually, he was so ill, he had to be admitted (you have to be really sick for that consideration) and my MIL had to make financial obligations so he could do so. He has been inpatient for years and is finally hoping to get into a group home for transition. The problem is, the waiting list for groups homes are long and not every home is appropriate for every patient. He just turned 35. He will never have a normal life, a good job or children. In the past he has had delusions and hallucinations gets the idea there are bugs under his skin, that he can hear the thoughts of animals etc. One time he followed a neighbor-- but it was late at night and scared the crap out of her. He didn't see that following someone at 2 am could be construed as scary stalker behavior--he just wanted to say hi-- if she were armed, he could easily and understandably been shot. The fight for SSI was long and expensive. There are plenty of stories that I don't want to recount and plenty I'm sure I was not even told about.

Thing is that my MIL is a mental health professional and knows the terminology and can genuinely call physicians on their shit treatment plans or ill advised medication changes. Not every one has that perspective. She is also a passionate advocate for her son-- he is the baby, so she fights hard. A large number of mentally ill people have already burnt out their family members and don't have that level of devoted advocates -- if any. I think Florida is one of the worst states for the mentally ill, the clinics have such a fast revolving door, you get whiplash.

[nashville_brook]

24. this is very close to the situation i had when i was a kid here in florida...

my half-brother was severely mentally ill and my grandmother was the advocate. she had a jr high education, but was scrappy and smart as hell, and learned her way around the system. it was her full-time job keeping him in the system and away from people he could hurt.

[AllentownJake]

10. Let us be careful here

The guy needed his medication, but there are plenty of people who are mentally ill who go off their medication and don't kill anyone. I think you have to have killing in your personality/psychology and the mental illness aggravates that.

[nashville_brook]

11. oh yeah -- definitely. it's the 1 in 1,000,000 who has violence in their soul -- they're the ones

who might kill. but, everyone with mental health issue deserves treatment regardless of their threat to society.

when no one is treated, the 1 person in 1,000,000 is guaranteed not to get help -- and guaranteed to be a threat. we have to deal with this systemically. punishing acts of violence done by a crazy person after-the-fact does nothing to make society more secure. the system needs to treat the illness and reduce the threat to society at-large.

[AllentownJake]

12. agreed

Most of the people that kill people have no mental illness, it always is good to remember that. Most people with mental illnesses end up as victims not criminals in our society.

[nashville_brook]

13. this person actually did have mental illness. i'm not speaking for the ones who aren't mentally ill.

just, that THIS episode... this tragedy could have been address with adequate medical/mental health care.

[AllentownJake]

14. Possibly

Even under medication though, if this person was psychologically pushed to his limit he may have went back to his former employer and shot up the place.

It appears to me this is more a crime of circumstances where a weak person was pushed really far and looked for something to lash out at. I have some doubts that an anti-psycotic could have prevented this crime.

[nashville_brook]

16. and so, your takeaway is that mental health does not make society safer.

we'll just put you in that column. totally cool. not everyone has to agree.

[AllentownJake]

19. No mental health does make society safer

However, shooting up a place seems to me something that requires psychological treatment as well as pharma treatment.

Drugs are only part of the answer, this guy obviously had some behavioral issues that weren't going to be solved by medicine.

[GreenPartyVoter]

27. Deep down everyone has the capacity to kill. When not on my meds the times my

chemistry cycles into rage it can be very scary. I think that if I really, really lost my grip (that little bitty voice in the back of my mind telling me not to smack my kids around, or that was sorry when I got too rough with them) I could do some very serious damage.

[The Backlash Cometh]

15. Maybe he wasn't a sympathetic guy.

But, atleast six people would have been spared if we all had pitched in to pay for his meds.

[nashville_brook]

17. eggsactly. i would have gladly put my dead prez in that hat.

[kenny blankenship]

29. BUT FIRST HE HAS TO SHOW HE IS LOOKING FOR WORK! NO MORE FREE RIDES FOR SCHIZOPHRENICS!

And he must bring a copy of last year's tax return. And he must bring his original Birth Certificate so we know he is not a freeloading illegal alien on top of being a whacko. And he must bring a clean driving record, with proof of current insurance. We won't subsidize insurance scofflaws! And he must bring copies of his last 5 job applications signed and dated by the HR interviewer or business owner. NOTARIZED. And he must pass a drug test! And he must bring proof of a clean credit history! No help for dead beats or druggies! And he must prove that he can speak English American fluently! And he must not be on the DHS terror watchlist! Or the Secret Waiting List for the Watchlist! Nor can he be associated with anyone associated with anyone associated with ACORN! No help for the insufficiently patriotic.

We won't pay for anti psychotic medications for just anybody. Oh no. They must PROVE they are worthy of this charity. Only when they prove themselves worthy of charity by satisfying the conditions described above will we fling it at them in disgust. If they go crazy without their meds and shoot 6 people without achieving these standards for psychiatric medical assistance, the blame is all on their heads and none of ours!

We will help, but not without 33 chances to express disapproval, pass judgment and withhold assistance first. If that makes for a shitty squalid violent society, so be it.

[The Backlash Cometh]

33. I wonder what the conditions were of his firing.

I once took an EEOC legal course which was full of young paralegals working for lawfirms. When we got on the subject of discrimination, the guy sitting next to me said that they had hired someone from Puerto Rico who moved here and had a wife with a baby. Immediately, they began to sabotage his work. Intentionally, they would leave things out to see if he would pick up on it. Let me repeat. They hired him from Puerto Rico and they put him through these tests without giving him any training.

The man obviously failed and was fired. "People felt bad," but you know, he should have known all these things. That was their excuse. The truth is, (and I've seen this enough to know) if you're liked, people come out and give you all kinds of help. I remember a research class where the class was in the library looking for sources. It was an assignment. I saw three black girls cluelessy walking around the stacks, while the teacher was huddled over a computer with a blonde girl, speaking in conspiratorial tones. The answers to find the material, was all on the computer. The blonde girl was obviously getting a leg up.

Ever since then, my desire to work for cracker-style companies in Orlando, I just don't have the youth anymore to put up with this shit. Orlando is a cesspool of discrimination. It's just hard to prove because it's so subtle. You almost need someone to come out and confirm your suspicions.

Not that this guy who went on a shoot-out had any right to do what he did, but, I would love to hear the full story.

[jbnow]

18. The article doesn't have detail about his mental health treatment

which is surely confidential.

I know laws and services vary by the state and that states are low on money. When uninsured low income people need mental health counseling and medication this is available through community mental health in my state.
The problem is clients would often need to be guided to new services, some kind of outreach to ensure a smoother transition from private to public care...but that couldn't be done without clients permission.

Often the problem lies with the mental illness and laws around it as much as with any insurance coverage. People can have exacerbation even while on medication and need some adjustment or additional help...but due to the nature of the illness they might not recognize any need for help but instead withdraw from help and avoid medication.

Anyone who has family with severe mental illness or has worked in the field likely knows how difficult/impossible it is to get help for those who don't want it.

I'm concerned with even the best of insurance policies...the mentally ill can fall through the cracks.

[nashville_brook]

22. you're absolutely right. even with the best insurance people fall thru -- and, this guy was

paranoid, which makes compliance even more difficult. the way community mental health works, you have to fight for your place in the system, which pretty much weeds out paranoids from treatment unless they have a family member (or a court order?) that keeps picking up the ball and placing them back in the system.

these people need constant treatment b/c the medication keeps the illness tamped down so they don't spin out of control. it's classic preventative care.

[anonymous171]

26. Let's just ban all guns instead of providing mental health care. It would be much cheaper.

:sarcasm:

[havocmom]

30. And since it's a sure fire way to lose elections, we will never have to deal with finding solutions

wish that was :sarcasm: :cry:

Yeah, so much easier to just shout about gun control than to deal with root problems. Sad, isn't it? :banghead:

[2Design]

28. as soon as I heard Faux Noise was going to interview the EX wife's mother

I knew it would not be good - does anyone's EX's MIL or FIL think they are an angel - god the crap that poses as news while so many go without health care and die while we kill a huge amount of people in other countries or torture them is unconscionable.

[Uncle Joe]

31. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, nashville_brook.

[Kievan Rus]

32. Ronald Reagan emptied a lot of mental hospitals

That man honestly did more damage to this country than King George III, Adolf Hitler or Joseph Stalin could have ever dreamed of.

President Bush the Second was the second worst, but he was Abraham Lincoln compared to Reagan.