Fine or Jail time for not buying insurance

[ballabosh]

Excuse me for being ignorant of this, I am fully in support of Pelosi's bill, but my inlaws are spouting that people will be subject to fines or jail time if they don't have health insurance. So my questions are:

1. Is this true? I think that this is probably a RW bullshit talking point. But this seems like a major point to turn people against the bill.

2. If this isn't true, how do I debunk it?

3. If this is true, what is a good way to defend this point? I can almost see why this would be true since uninsured people cost taxpayers dollars, but is it because uninsured people can take the public option for free?

I just don't know how to counter this argument.

[John Q. Citizen]

1. Tell them the Dems had to go for facism because AHIP wouldn't let them do anything else.

It too bad, but if we don't take this deal, Rahm Emmanuel gonna cuss us out.

[sandnsea]

2. Health Care Costs Money

The public option will not be free. There will be subsidies and tax credits to help people pay for insurance. But it DOES cost money.

There are two ways to get everybody in the system. One is to tax everyone and give them a card, like we do with social security.

The other is to require them to have insurance, like we do with driver's insurance. And include penalties.

I prefer the first method, but if we did that your in-laws would scream socialism.

We need everybody in so there are no more unpaid costs spread out among the insured and so that there is more preventive medical care to also reduce costs.

Health care costs is killing our competitiveness. They're also adding billions in costs to Medicare. We have to solve the problem or nobody is going to get care before long.

[ballabosh]

8. Thanks

Thanks for your answer. Everyone else seems to have a snarky answer, when this was a serious question.

I don't think your answer will satisfy my inlaws or the people who oppose the bill, but there may be nothing that will satisfy them. At least I have something to work with.

[CreekDog]

30. People are giving you snarky answers?

Quelle Surprise!!!

:rofl:

welcome. :hi:

[John Q. Citizen]

15. The American people want socialism. It's the ruling class that doesn't want it.

[cali]

18. the American people are freakin' sheep

they want what they're told to want.

[sandnsea]

20. I have subsidized insurance

I want everyone to have it because the alternative is death. The only thing that will turn me against these health care bills is if the subsidies aren't enough to be affordable to low income families.

[John Q. Citizen]

29. To a point. The Repos want what their Repo leaders tell them they want, the Dems want what their Dem

leaders tell them they want.

[Dr Fate]

28. Wars based on lies cost money too. Taxes seem to work fine for that.

Wars are not free either, but I dont see anyone forcing mandates on anyone over that. It comes from taxes like everything else the govt. does.

Comparing it to driver's insurance is BS. In fact, most communities have public transportation (AKA the public option). Why leave that fact out of the equation? No one has to drive-unlike say, CANCER, it's a choice.

Most citizens have a PUBLIC option to take tax-funded PUBLIC transportation instead of CHOOSING to buy a car and private car insurance.

I dont care if tea-baggers cry "socialism"- that excuse is worn out. Let them cry "socialism" all the way to the doctor's office.

The mandate is bunk- and I'm tired of giving everything away to corrupt corporations & profiteers.

[Wilms]

3. I, for one, hope it means jail time.

Pretty decent medical care that way. ;)

[Joe Fields]

4. I'm hip to that!

:toast:

[vadawg]

5. lol i wouldnt be so sure of that mate.......

[rucky]

7. I call the top bunk!

[alarimer]

21. Yes, if I ever lose my insurance, I am robbing a bank.

I'm kidding, but only sort of.

[Speck Tater]

6. I'd opt for jail time. Free food and shelter. What a deal! nt

[Motown_Johnny]

27. Free health care for prisoners too.. let us not forget that

[usregimechange]

9. No one has mentioned jail time in any of the bills that I have ever seen

[kenny blankenship]

10. Any time fines are involved, court dates and jail time are necessarily invoked silently or out loud

in order to provide for enforcement. The one thing leads to the other without needing to be stated.

Try this experiment if you don't believe me:
Don't pay the protection money. Then turn up empty pockets in front of the IRS, so they can't collect the fine. When your IRS court date rolls around, don't show up. (Or go and tell them to get fucked) Now see if you don't go to real court, at the hands of real gun toting cops serving a bench warrant, and go to real jail. It's actually there in the background the whole time. The more you refuse to pay the protection money and the fine for not paying, the more vivid the prospect of jail will get.

You bet your ass jail is in the background of this. And if you aren't convinced yet, go ahead and bet your ass.

[John Q. Citizen]

16. It's an extortion racket to benefit the insurance industry. Some people are so blind it's amazing.

[Laelth]

11. The fine is true. The jail time is not true.

And there is no good defense for this bill (unless the Kucinich Amendment is included in it). Tell them you're sorry that the Democratic Party sold out the people to the health insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

:dem:

-Laelth

[underseasurveyor]

24. If you don't pay your fines where does that leave you?

Jail.

[Xithras]

26. The jail time is very true.

Don't pay for insurance and you'll get a fine. Don't pay the fine and you'll be facing arrest & asset seizure.

[donheld]

12. Neither, you get spanked

[notesdev]

13. It's being treated like a tax

So the standard IRS penalties, which can include criminal penalties requiring jail time, apply.

They appear to be doing everything they can to make this package unappealing.

[Zavulon]

14. I see no way to counter it.

Unlike you, I'm completely against the Pelosi bill. "Buy what we want or do time?" Are you kidding me?

You just know that millions will be in the situation where they technically earn too much money for government assistance in buying the insurance but still can't afford it.

The government should fix Medicare and lower the age to include everyone instead of this festering bullshit, a sweeping and horrible new program which is going to have tons of teething pains.

I am as disgusted with Nancy Pelosi right now as I am with Bush and Cheney.

[spanone]

17. healthcare concentration camps are currently being built.

:wow:

[arcadian]

19. The oligarchs have been itching to bring back a new form of debtors prison.

I guess this is how they will do it.

[newspeak]

22. I just love how the teabaggers yell "socialism"

these so-called "grass roots" movements doing the bidding of their corporate masters. It is not like auto insurance. I do not have to drive an automobile, but if I get sick, it seems that I'm on my own. HEALTH should be a RIGHT, not a privilege, unlike driving.

They FORCE us to go to the private sector--give our money to a for profit entity-only a few will be allowed to have the public option. I want the public option-but the question is, will I be eligible for it? Probably not.

To me, I may be wrong, this looks like another windfall to the corporations--and the knuckledraggers still "cut off their nose to spite their face" to go against a strong public option.

After seeing the thread on unemployment figures, some need to get a clue. As more and more of us lose our jobs and benefits, how can we afford to pay? Some who have had to go with a "shitty" job are just trying to stay above water and keep up with their debts. I'd rather see it taken out-a small increase more on medicare and cover most of us, instead of going corporate insurance shopping.

[many a good man]

23. Defense - it is subsidized for those unable to afford it

There is a formula for subsidies that ranges from below the poverty line to 400% above it. The goal is to make health insurance affordable for everybody.

If the subsidies are not generous enough complain to the stingy Republicans and Blue Dogs.

The new bill would take away the insurers ability to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions or to cut you off completely when you get sick. This is a major revolutionary reform. There are also new caps on how much you would have to pay in a given year. This means the insurers will have to fork out a lot more money. If millions of young and healthy people choose to go without insurance the insurers would have raise the rates on everyone else substantially. The idea is to broaden the risk pool to keep rates down.

The only way to keep everyone insured without fining them is to socialize the risk and pay it through government taxes. It is also the best way to lower costs. Ironically, that is what Republicans, ConservaDems, and your in-laws probably oppose the most.

[Toots]

25. How much jail time do I have to do to get out of paying ten grand a year to Insurance racket?

:shrug: