What should be investigated is the seemingly abysmal psychiatric training Hasan got.

[snagglepuss]

Something seems profoundly lacking in Hasans' psychiatric training given he could not remain detached when insults directed at his religion. A basic skill for any therapist is not to take insults or hostility personally but remain detached and analyze hostility rather than respond in kind. Was this never taught to him?

[bobbolink]

1. It's the same abysmal lack as psychiatry in general.

They are schooled in pharmco.

Psychology? Not so much.

[imdjh]

2. Meh, my old psychiatrist was a bit fragile. He moved to Seattle and got holistic or something.

[snagglepuss]

5. Was he not able to handle hostility?

[imdjh]

9. LOL! I wasn't hostile back then. nt

[AllentownJake]

3. Psychiatrist now a days spend 15 minutes with their patients

in an intial consultation and than 5 minutes in follow-ups....the profession is nothing but a pusher for big pharma...

That being said a lot of these drugs help people, but psychiatrist don't really study psycotherapy that much, they leave that to the psycologist.

[snagglepuss]

4. Then that has to be investigated beause he was treating soldiers

suffering from PTSD. Was no therapy involved at all? And even if there wasn't any therapy and his only job was to prescribe a pill that still doesn't explain his inablity to detach from hostility being directed at him.

[imdjh]

17. Mine was a sit around and talk psychiatrist. That's why I quit him.

I wasn't going to pay that dick a hundred dollars an hour to chat. Especially when he had nothing useful to add. All in all, my therapy phase was a waste of time. Sweat is the best therapy- challenging physical exercise. That, goal setting, and personal organization make for a happier IMDJHIM.

[AllentownJake]

18. True

However, I'd like someone to talk to me for more than 15 minutes before diagnosing me with a mental illness and prescribing a drug.

[imdjh]

20. All depends on what the drug is. For Librium, he can throw the script at me as he walks by.

[dysfunctional press]

19. everyone is different...

i actually got a lot out of my talk therapy sessions.

[Arrowhead2k1]

6. Being a psychiatrist doesn't make one immune to mental illness/distress.

Infact, I can barely imagine how many shitty stories he must have heard through his job which may have played a role in pushing him over the edge.

[snagglepuss]

10. But it seems he had just recently finished PTSD training so shouldn't there

be some assessment whether someone can handle this amount of stress. Perhaps the army has reconsider whether devoutly religious people can be therapists. It isn't rocket science to imagine that alot of soldiers in his practice might have blasphemed Mohamed, that they had alot of rage against Msulims.

[snagglepuss]

15. I just read a OP about this. Hasan had serious mental issues in med school that were ignored

In med school he gave a lecture that unbelievers (non-Muslims) will be beheaded and burn in hell and burning oil will be pout down your throat. If he's been tramitized it sounds he was tramatized by his religion.


from NPR

ZWERDLING: Earlier today, I spoke to a psychiatrist who worked very closely with Hasan and knows him very well. And he said, you know, from the beginning -and Hasan was there for four years - the medical staff was very worried about this guy. He said the first thing is he's cold, unfriendly. At least that's who he came off. He did not do a good job as a psychiatrist in training, was repeatedly warned, you better shape up, or, you know, you're going to be in trouble. Did badly in his classes, seemed disinterested. But second of all - and this is, perhaps, you know, more relevant. The psychiatrist says that he was very proud and upfront about being Muslim. And psychiatrist hastened to say, and nobody minded that. But he seemed almost belligerent about being Muslim, and he gave a lecture one day that really freaked a lot of doctors out.

They have grand rounds, right? They, you know, dozens of medical staff come into an auditorium, and somebody stands at the podium at the front and gives a lecture about some academic issue, you know, what drugs to prescribe for what condition. But instead of that, he - Hasan apparently gave a long lecture on the Koran and talked about how if you don't believe, you are condemned to hell. Your head is cut off. You're set on fire. Burning oil is burned down your throat.

And I said to the psychiatrist, but this cold be a very interesting informational session, right? Where he's educating everybody about the Koran. He said but what disturbed everybody was that Hasan seemed to believe these things. And actually, a Muslim in the audience, a psychiatrist, raised his hand and said, excuse me. But I'm a Muslim and I do not believe these things in the Koran, and then I don't believe what you say the Koran says. And then Hasan didn't say, well, I'm just giving you one point of view. He basically just stared the guy down.





http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120162816

[stray cat]

7. You can graduate last out of 500 doctors and still be called doctor

[snagglepuss]

12. There are shrinks that deal with patients who have serious rage issues.

That sort of training should be mandatory for army shrinks.

[Odin2005]

8. Psychatrists look at the bio-medical side of mental illnesses, not the psychological side.

The later side is what psychotherapists do. His job was probably to make sure his PTSD patients got the right medications with the right dosages. it's psychologists that do therapy.

[snagglepuss]

11. But earlier this year he completed training in disaster psychiatry

at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, which supposedly enabled him to hand PTSD patients. If that training was nothing but what medication to prescribe then that should be investigated.

My cousin had a real rage/violence issues and she went to a shrink who specialized in dealing with those sorts of issues. The training is there and that the army wouldn't make that sort of training mandatory is dumbfounding.

[Canuckistanian]

13. I'd be questioning the entire military psychiatric program

Weren't there psychiatrists at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib advising the CIA and contractors on how to better torture their prisoners?

I wouldn't be surprised if the whole program was fucked up - war hawks interfering in policy decisions about PTSD, over-prescription of drugs, under-treating severe cases.....

Remember, this guy Hasan got a lot of his training at WALTER REED hospital, no stranger to fuckups and bad management.

[snagglepuss]

16. You've got to read an NPR interview Cali posted earlier today.

Hasan should never have got promoted because he was seriously disturbed in med school. For instance when other students were giving pysche related lectures, he gave one about Islam and that non believers would burn in hell and have hot oil poured down their throats. Even though another Muslim shrink who was in the audience denounced Hasan's interpretation of the Koran, Hasan's superiors let the matter slide. Its utterly insane that his doing just that one thing didn't raise a red flag. IMO this is political correctness gone awry.


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120162816

[treestar]

14. I had a shrink once who said he went to his own shrink

He said it was necessary to psychiatrists that they see one themselves.

[AntiFascist]

21. If the original poster really knew about psychiatry....

he would know that even the best psychologists often need their own therapy. I believe this one felt isolated.

[Confusious]

22. Religion is very personal

It's easier to remain detached from someone else's life then your own, or the things you identify with.

I can be very easy going person, and let almost everything roll off my back, but I seem to have a sore point when someone unjustly criticizes a job I do, because I take pride in fixing something, and fixing it well.

[snagglepuss]

24. But you are not a shrink nor a psychologist. It the army is training Muslims

to be shrinks for traumatized soldiers returning from a Muslim war zone it is incumbent that they determine that such people can handle what they are going to confront. If a returning soldier witnessed his buddy's head blown off by a Muslim fighter he is probably going to have issues. It is not inconceivable that he would blaspheme Mohamed, Allah you name it. A therapist has to be able to deal with that anger without taking it personally. If they can't, they shouldn't be shrinks.

[Confusious]

26. Well from what I've read it sounded like

He was more upset about the abuse perpetrated *at* him from equals, then the abuse from people he was helping. And we have no idea how many people he treated. You can't take hundreds of people pouring their emotions out to you and not have it build up in some way. Otherwise your psychotic, and don't give a shit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Noting to do with religion

this was a poor soldier, period. And this is one of those cases where he should have been separated under conscientious objector a while ago. as he requested.

So the DOD has to specifically see what went wrong in this case, but it also has to consider that the army overall is broken. Quick what was the average number of days of active combat a soldier saw in WW II?

100

How many days of active combat does a soldier see in a SINGLE deployment TODAY?

That will explain a lot, and we will pay for this.

This force needs to be at least three times it's current size just to have proper rotations, if we are to continue with this insanity.

[debbierlus]

23. Uhm...not really.

The man was mentally unbalanced and over the edge. I don't think he was referencing his psych training when he utilized mass murder as a coping technique (something else not considered healthy behavior in medical school).

The man was crazed.

[snagglepuss]

25. Hasan was crazed in med school. He got poor assessments. He was deemed

cold. He gave a lecture to his peers and professors how non-Muslims would burn in hell, be beheaded and have hot oil burn poured down their throats. Every other person gave a lecture related to pychiatry. So something is very wrong with the training when someone like him is being graduated.

[Confusious]

28. You got a link to that bit of info?

I'm just curious to read about it. The guy shouldn't have been a shrink if that was true.

[snagglepuss]

30. IMO The most shocking aspect of this tragedy is that he ended being a shrink.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120162816

[Iggo]

27. I'd add a word and say, "What should ALSO be investigated..." (n/t)