Are you aware that as it stands now,

[MNDemNY]

The MANDATE to purchase Insurance starts IMMEDIATELY, But the "Exchange" that will include what is called the "private Option" are not available until 2013??? Tell me how the industry will not "cheery pick" the populace, thus rendering any "PO" destined to fail. How do you think that will go over in the mid-term elections??

[derby378]

1. It seems that the best solution is to "weed and seed" Congressional Democrats in 2010

Prune the compromisers, then replace them with Dems who want real health care reform and won't let Obama rest on his laurels.

[MNDemNY]

8. If this bill passes, we will not have that opportunity.

:cry:

[NYC_SKP]

2. So now the Dems in the House are corporatist sell outs AND they want to destroy their majority?

Or they are that stupid???

I don't think so.

I think and hope you're wrong about this.

[MNDemNY]

4. I wish I was.

There is something about a "catastrophic" plan to be made available to those who CAN'T get private coverage, to "tide them over" until 2013. This bill is shit. "The Insurance Industry Profit Protection Act of 2009."

[regnaD kciN]

15. With all respect, you don't know what you're talking about...

As I said below, the earliest date penalties for lack of insurance coverage would be phased-in is five years from now, in 2014. And, even then, they would start at only $100 per adult in the family, only increasing to $750 after several more years.

[MNDemNY]

16. You are quoting the senate bill.

this is in the house bill, the one Obama so gleefully announced the support of the AARP and the AMA.

[regnaD kciN]

19. As I said before, provide a link to the entire bill...

[MNDemNY]

22. see down thread. read at your leisure, then weigh in.

[regnaD kciN]

25. See my post below...

From an examination of the relevant part of the bill, the mandated penalties won't take effect until 2013.

[Autumn]

3. I think it will go over like a lead

balloon.If this is the way it goes 2012 will be a blood bath. And I do think they are setting it up to fail, too many conservatives on the Democrats and republican side.

[MNDemNY]

5. Too many democrats just out for the "win"

They seem to believe that a fancy bill signing will win them votes. Not with this turd, it wont.

[kenny blankenship]

10. They're all looking out for #1, greedy for that corporate cash, "it's up to the other Dems"

they think, " to keep the legislation looking and smelling Democratic. I'm getting mine while the getting is good." Somebody else they think, can make the bill look like it's motivated by the best interests of the common man. Everyone wants to be the next Max Baucus, a made man. Nobody wants to be an "ideologue"! That's a BAD WORD!

So damn near every elected Dem is selling us out (not my Rep. though, but unfortunately nobody listens to him), all competing with each other in front of a paying audience of lobbyists waving dollar bills, for which Congress critter can set a lower price on our collective ass. Take it off! Take it all off! Lower! Go Lower! Now pick the bottle up with your ******!

The first "Exchange" the insurance legislation has created is the meat market of Congress itself.

[bobbolink]

9. Setting it up to fail.... I think this, too, and wonder why we don't hear this from

our usual voices.

I'd really like to hear a flat-out discussion of this aspect.... let's call in to Keith, Ed and Rachel, and see if they will take this on.

[FiveGoodMen]

6. It's just stunning.

Every day proves that stupid and evil have no limits and no party.

[MNDemNY]

7. And so few believe this.

passage of this is not only poor "reform" it is also a poison pill for the 2012 elections.Th republofucks are positioning themselves quite well, it seems. And we are falling for it hook,line,and sinker. x(

[regnaD kciN]

17. They don't believe it because IT ISN'T TRUE...

Penalties don't even phase in until 2014. It's amazing to me this kind of disinformation B.S. could be spread on DU, instead of a teabagger website.

[MNDemNY]

20. Get off the senate bill!

This is the Obama (seemingly) backed house bill. Some would be able to PURCHASE "catastrophic" coverage to "tide them over" until the "exchange" is on line in 2013.

[regnaD kciN]

28. As I have already pointed out twice on this thread...

...the HOUSE bill you provided a link to won't begin penalties until 2013.

Sorry, but you're simply wrong on all counts.

[Kermitt Gribble]

11. That's great! Go Team!!

:puke: I'm about to experience this first hand next week. My employer currently doesn't offer ins. This legislation is scaring them into providing us ins, but we are going to have to pay about 70% of the premium. With the wages they pay, most of us that work there can't afford this ins and we're afraid they're eventually going to force it on us.

[MNDemNY]

12. Yup, that's the plan.

[regnaD kciN]

13. Which bill are you looking at...?

The final version of the Senate Finance Committee bill doesn't even start phasing in penalties for not obtaining insurance until 2014.

Are you reading from the same on-line versions of "the bill" that have been around since summer, and include the establishment of official "death panels?" :crazy:

[MNDemNY]

14. The House bill, the one touted by our president, the AARP, and the AMA.

the one to be voted on tomorrow!

[regnaD kciN]

18. Show me a link to that bill...

...and I mean the whole bill, not just excerpts hand-picked by someone wanting to shove their own P.O.V.

[MNDemNY]

21. here you are.

http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

[regnaD kciN]

24. And, in the relevant section (501) of the bill, on page 308...

...you'll find the following:

(f) EFFECTIVE DATE.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—The amendments made by this section shall apply to taxable years beginning after December 31, 2012.
(2) RETURNS.—The amendments made by subsection (b) shall apply to calendar years beginning after December 31, 2012.

So, it would appear that the penalties would not begin immediately. The difference between the House and Senate bills are that the Senate bill would begin penalties one year later (2014 versus 2013), and phase in the penalties over the course of several years. We'll see which version emerges from committee, but I see no way that either will begin imposing penalties immediately, or before the exchange is in place.

[MNDemNY]

26. The penalties imposed in 2013 for non-compliance in 2012.

So you must buy insurance before the "PO" is available, thus the "cherry picking" scenario still holds. The "PO" is doomed before it starts, by design.

[regnaD kciN]

27. No, because it refers to "taxable years" beginning after 2012...

...ergo, 2013 (the tax on which is due April 15, 2014).

[timeforpeace]

23. And don't forget to weigh in. What page are you on? (Thanks for the link).

[Toucano]

29. It's fucked up.

It's all fucked up.

It's all fucked up.

:mad: