The Fort Hood Gunman ...

[madmax]

That's who he is. Not a SOLDIER.. he's the mad, lone, crazed, Arab, Allah loving gunman' Better known as "The Fort Hood Gunman", as he is now widely known. Thank you, lazy media whores.

This man was/is a soldier in OUR FUCKING ARMY!! A Sargent. He was born and raised in Virginia Joined the Army out of High School. Worked at Walter Reed, as a shrink. I bet he heard more than his share of insanity of what is going on in the Middle East.

He is one of US. He's an American or are those born in the US, but of Arab ancestry not 'real' Americans. I'm first generation born here, WTF - I'm not an American? I realize he killed and injured people but, because he's Arab it makes more of a difference? We need to distance him from 'real American's'. Didn't the Army train him?

What about the guys who come home, lose it - killing wives, family or strangers. Where's the 24/7 non stop buzz words on that shit??

I'm so fucking pissed off I can hardly see or write a coherent rant. Fuck this country, I'm tired of shoveling shit against the tide. Basta already, no more. No more protesting, writing congress, no more money.

I'm seriously going to talk to my husband about leaving this shit hole excuse for the greatest country in the world. Fuck it, let the Republicans have the whole stinking pile of shit. Their leaders created such a cluster fuck. KEEP IT!! We've talked about this but, never really seriously. I'm getting really SERIOUS now.

I'd tired of fighting, tired of the idiot righ-wing crazies. Ok, and I'm having a fucking meltdown...carry on.

:mad: :banghead: :rant:

[virgogal]

1. Where would you go? Leaving the country is a big move IMHO.

[madmax]

5. Portugal or Mexico n/t

[johnnie]

2. If I've said it once I've said it a million times...

Don't watch the fucking so-called "news" on TV. It's nothing but entertainment shows. They are all there to make a buck and will report anything that gets ratings.

If you are going to watch it, then try to keep it in your mind that you are watching 98% bullshit.

I never watch that crap. Well, local stuff for traffic and weather.

[madmax]

7. Hmm, yeah it was MSNBC

I'm worn out, we all are. Eight years of chaos while a demented, ignorant chimp ran the country into the ground, started 2 fucking wars and leaves all this shit for Obama. Not bad enough, everyone wants him to change it overnight. If chimp couldn't find the 'magic wand', why do some people think Obama has one?

[Barack_America]

3. Actually, he's a Major.

But it's a justified rant, nevertheless. Classifying him as an "other" just makes it easier not to address some very serious problems in our military with regards to stress and support for the wars.

[madmax]

8. They didn't get that right either.

There's a lot of bullshit surrounding this story. I doubt we will get the truth anytime soon and by then no one will give a shit. Just another crazed Arab killer.

[TwilightGardener]

4. He's forever to be known as the Fort Hood Gunman, because that's

his claim to fame. That doesn't contradict or hide any other fact about him. The guy who shot up the mall in Omaha a couple years ago is the Mall Shooter. That's why he's famous. No conspiracy to it. And edit to add: he certainly doesn't deserve the dignity of being honored and remembered for his military service, if that's what you're driving at.

[madmax]

9. Of course not

Honored!! However, doesn't the Army owe some sort of explaination as to why they didn't do anything about this potential threat when he supposedly spoke out in a class about his feeling regarding wars in Iraq and Afganistan? This was relayed in the form of a taped interview with a classmate in 2007 and 2008.

And btw, thanks for your service.

[TwilightGardener]

14. I am an Air Force wife, my husband serves, but thank you for that--

the Army definitely has to account for why they left this man in the service when they knew he was troubled. Some real red flags that were ignored--and even made worse with taunting and harassment from other soldiers.

[madmax]

20. As a wife - you deserve as much thanks.

It's not an easy life. Thank you and your guy. :hug:

[NoSheep]

34. I'm glad for you two you have your sanity.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madmax]

11. Most soldiers commit mass murder

isn't that what fucking soldiering is all about! I'm not a coward, I'm 60 years old, have been diagnosed with cancer and want to spend some fucking time enjoying what's left. I think it's time for me to realize that nothing is going to change and there isn't a fucking thing that I can do about that.

[cynatnite]

17. Do you have evidence to back up that claim?

I want to know where you get the notion that most soldiers commit mass murder.

[madmax]

21. Are you for real? n/t

[cynatnite]

25. Well, I am a veteran who spent several years in the military...

My husband did, so did my dad and numerous other relatives and I can tell you for a fact that the majority of soldiers are NOT mass murders.

Pulling over-the-top rhetoric out of your ass is stupid.

[Raineyb]

28. Did they change the purpose of military training? n/t

[cynatnite]

39. Are you asking me that? n/t

[Raineyb]

43. I'm not sure what it is you're getting at.

The military trains people to kill other people. We tend to do our killings in large numbers which technically qualifies as mass killings. So I'm wondering if we're discussing what it is that militaries do which is in essence kill large numbers of people or if we're discussing a spree killing which the shooting at Fort Hood would be more aptly described as.

I get the impression that some people think that killings that are sanctioned don't count as killings for some reason. So I guess I'm trying to see exactly what I'm dealing with argument wise.

[cynatnite]

44. In basic training we are taught to kill, but...

the DI's make a point of telling us that they want us to come home alive so we would need to defend ourselves. It was that way with my husband and he's been in combat twice, my Dad who was a Vietnam vet and other veterans in our family. We were trained with the "us vs. them" mentality should leaders decide to send us to war.

When I think of "mass killings" I think of what happened at Ft. Hood and Columbine.

[Confusious]

52. I think the difference is

Is that in a war, the other guy is trying too kill you too.

[Raineyb]

54. All of them? I don't think so. n/t

[proteus_lives]

19. Are you serious?

Most soldier DO NOT commit mass murder. Killing in combat is not murder and most soldiers live by a code of honor that the criminal gunman broke and shat upon yesterday. You are spitting on millions of Americans (and many, many DUers) who served honorably with statements like that. You're sprouting sheer ignorance.

You're acting like a coward. Nothing you can do? Not true. People can fight and change things until they're in the ground.

[madmax]

22. Tell that to the civilians who died. n/t

[proteus_lives]

24. So you can't back up your insults or claims.

We know now that's you're a wretch who spewing hate at soldiers.

[madmax]

29. LOL

[madmax]

41. Ahhh, 'wretch'

Thanks, I've been called worse ;)

[NoSheep]

37. Madmax...

you need to look after yourself. I know we all feel a responsibility when we know and understand things others don't and can't. But we are no good to anyone unless we know when we need to just look after us...you know?
:grouphug:

[madmax]

45. I know

I've just been reading DU lately not getting into anything seriously. Yesterday the Fort Hood tragedy, today Orlando, where am I? What's going on in our country. I'm overwhelmed with emotions and feelings I can't get a grip on. I have a 19 year old granddaughter. She can't get a job - she's collecting unemployment and today the unemployment numbers go up.

The whole situation seems lost not just the US but the planet. The wars, economy, health care, climate change, disease, flu, ad nauseum. I feel like I'm living in a Sci-Fi world and there is no way out. Well, except for death and I'd just as soon as pass on that for little while longer. Hell, I guess it can't be all that bad ;)

[NoSheep]

51. Isn't it amazing? The power of our being...to have control over our will..

it's as if we have an uber-mind that is more ancient...it comes in and takes over when our more immediate reality threatens us. Humans are not that much different from other animals in this way, I guess.. There must be something innate that remains to spite all this "modern" conditioning. I am glad I can still access that...perhaps it is because that knowing never left me throughout all these years I've survived. It has been a rough couple of days on top of a rough nine years. Never have I been able to isolate a decade as having sucked as bad as this one.

The GOOD is, that we who can, DO, still have each other. WE are lucky...imagine that.

[lunatica]

13. How rude!

People can choose wherever they want to live. What? The US is so glorious that only cowards leave? That's idiotic.

[proteus_lives]

23. She's giving up, that's what cowards do.

People fight and change things or they slink away.

I thought DU was about trying to change things for the better? Am I wrong?

And yes, the US is glorious. I think that and it's my home. I'm going to stay and fight for positive change.

[madmax]

31. How old are you?

And I'm not asking in a snarky way. Sounds like you have a lot of energy and idealism left in you. I'm fresh out.

[NoSheep]

38. It's a reasonable question. I'm 46 and I'm about to hit my second wave of resignation.

[madmax]

47. You still have a lot of fight left.

I'm sorry, I don't understand? '...second wave of resignation?'

[NoSheep]

50. 2nd time I've been through a decade of political activism and arrived

at the melting point...personally

[proteus_lives]

56. I'm 26.

I just got back from the night shift on my second job. I work everyday, two jobs, freelance work, volunteering, family stuff. I'm sorry if I was mad and snarky earlier but the concept of throwing in the towel is anathema to me. I couldn't function in my life with that attitude. I'm old enough to realize that life isn't going to work out the way I dreamed it as a boy but I still believe in happiness and success. For me, my family, my community and my nation. Hell, the world too. I was raised to believe that if you're on the mat with blood pouring out of your nose and the ref is on 7 of the ten-count, you still don't give up. You start fighting harder. I don't believe there is shame in failure or defeat. I do believe that there is shame in giving up.

Also I am snarky because I believe that you're too harsh and judgmental towards soldiers. Not just because I have many soldiers in my family or I come within two fingers of shaking the recruiter's hand myself once upon a time. It's because you can't judge an entire group of people. With a profession/calling like soldiers you have men and women of every creed, color, orientation and class in the mix. They joined for many different reasons and they are trained in my different skills. The crazy asshole from Ft Hood was trained to a head-shrinker (Ironic huh?) All I'm asking is that you keep an open mind when it comes to soldiers.

[Raineyb]

15. Let me get this straight, in your world as long as a person, for whom we've used our tax dollars to

train to be involved in the business of killing, kills the "right" people then he's a soldier. But when the same impulses that we've planned to use to kill others are turned toward a target that we've decided we momentarily give a shit about then he's stops being a soldier.

Stupid parsing and rampant hypocrisy noted.

[proteus_lives]

26. Wow.

"train to be involved in the business of killing, kills the "right" people then he's a soldier. But when the same impulses that we've planned to use to kill others are turned toward a target that we've decided we momentarily give a shit about then he's stops being a soldier."

Yeah, there is a difference between combat and murder. All nations and philosophies accept that.

It's not hypocrisy. You're just joining in mm's anti-soldier hate-fest.

[Raineyb]

33. The difference between murder and combat is merely sanction.

You may be interested in glorifying what it is that the military does but that is what they do. They train people to kill other people and they generally prefer that they kill the people the powers that be tell them to. Unfortunately, it often ends up that their training ends up being turned against people the government did not intend for the soldier to kill such as the soldier themselves, girlfriends and wives, strangers in public etc. The government is quick to call that murder and equally quick to sever all ties with that person as well. After all the soldier has basically outlived his usefulness as far as the government's concerned.

I think it's safe to say that the people on the other end of our weapons don't give a shit that their deaths have been sanctioned by our government; their loved ones will still see it as senseless death and murder.

Merely breaking down what it is that we do when we have a standing military is not anti-solider hatred. However, what YOU are doing can certainly be categorized as soldier worship which is a hell of a lot more dangerous in the long run as you seem intent in bullying or at least trying to make those who don't glamorize the military in the same fashion as you do feel as though they should not point out what may be seen as uncomfortable truths. Frankly, I could say that for all your bluster I suspect you, not unlike our government, don't give much of a shit about our soldiers either so long as they do whatever dirty work the government has seen fit to send them to do and not bother you with things like their mental health or their own needs, wants, and desires. But that may be construed as overly cynical.

[madmax]

40. Thank you for having the intelligence

to articulate my base emotions and anger so much better than I have done. You hit the nail on the head.

[madmax]

35. What's with the anti-soldier hate fest bullshit.

I don't hate the soldiers. I hate this government, Republicans, GWBush, Corporations...

Many of my friends served in Vietnam. Most came back, some came back damaged, some didn't, my cousin left an arm and a leg in some pos rice paddy. And for WHAT!! Please tell me.

A young girl found me thru DU. She wanted information about her father-in-law a friend from high school who came home but, damaged. He died at 43.

I don't hate the soldiers, I feel sorry that they're used by our goverment for personal vendettas. Bush+Iraq.

Why are the mercs from Blackwater getting paid mega bucks and our guys serve for peanuts? That I hate. Bring out boys home and let the Middle East use their oil money and pay the mercs to clean up and protect the Sheiks.

Speaking of Blackwater mercs, if an American soldier pulled the shit those guys did they'd be in the brig for life.

[Thothmes]

49. Do you hate LBJ. He is the reason your friends served in Vietnam

Do you Hate Obama. He is the man prosecuting the war in Iraq and Afghanstan now. Is your hate against war or just Republicans. Democrats can make useless, unjustified war and that ok?

[Bucky]

10. It's painful for all of us. I'm glad you shared your rage. I've got it too.

I'm not packing or anything. Near as I can figure, Kentucky is my ancestral homeland, so actually living in Houston is a step up from the madness. But that said, I'm tired of the willfully ignorant having the run of our pop media, too.

I teach history, so on a regular basis in my classes I get to talk about the long term trends toward this country getting better. It's just really hard to see that on days like this.

[madmax]

12. You really think we're getting better?

I don't know, maybe I need a vacation. I was better off before 2000. After Florida, we got involved a lot more than we ever were before. A lot of our friends too were shocked by the USSC decision. Lost faith The Court and blind justice.

[Raineyb]

16. Frankly, I don't think so.

And some of the responses on this thread wouldn't have me believe that improvement is forthcoming.

[madmax]

18. It's hard to be optimistic about the future

when there are people like Army, Bachman, and Foxx spewing shit. I'm concerned about health care. Not so much for myself, yet - but, for this upcoming generation. If the insurance companies have their way. I have insurance but, they are trying to screw me at every turn. I've hardly used any benefits in the past 30 years. NOW, I need them and they're starting to deny certain tests, or threaten to. Then my doctor has to get involved and this is total bullshit!

I was hungry and got a left over fortune cookie from the kitchen... 'It is now, and in this world, that we must live.' whoa!

[Bucky]

42. "The moral arc of the universe bends toward justice"

<== This guy said that in a speech in a town where he couldn't get a room in
                    the same hotel with some of his staffers because they were white.

People kept saying that this recession was nearly a replay of the Great Depression, but that's because they didn't remember that during the 1930s there was no welfare, no unemployment benefits, no social security, no retraining centers for workers with obsolete skills, and nothing but breadlines for the homeless. We are a far more humane and moral society today than we were three generations ago--too moral to allow those hurting to go on hurting--how else can you account for ripe-cherry-red states like Arkansas and Montana having strong majorities of voters in favor of the public option. I'd say we're more ethically inclined than even one generation ago. One by one old regressive ideas are getting erased from the public square: even the party of the white power structure struggles to present itself as racially inclusive. This didn't happen by itself--dedicated Americans went out and argued and fought for the slow progress we've made. All this progress has been made because people who didn't even know us worked their asses off to build a better world for us.

Yes, it's frustrating as hell living in a country that's blaming unemployment on the president who stopped the job-bleeding he inherited from Bush and then attack him for raising their taxes, even though all he's done so far is cut taxes. But remember that Republicans have to keep on inventing new kinds of stupid only because progressives have been steadily educating the public while ignorance has been losing more and more ground.

This is how I see the world. Of course real progress is slow, maybe even magmic, but it's got staying power. Once better thinking wins out in the free market place of ideas, there's no going back toward stupid. That's how this country has operated since 1789. Everyone who's fought for a better world since then has very much made a difference. The fact that you're frustrated and impatient only tells me that you're on the right side of history. I think you have a role to play in the next improvement we make. I hope you stay with us, no matter where you choose to live.

[madmax]

46. A very sobering, intelligent post.

There are very few people I could just blow off steam with in real life. Here on DU we're all on the same side, even if it's at varying degrees.

The reason I got involved in the first place was to try to change things for my grands, my Mom had a hard life, mine was better, I'm scared for the kids that it will worse for them. That we're going backwards and people are so busy chasing their tails to keep afloat that the powers that be are going to win.

Your post brought tears to my eyes and a sense of calm. I save it and a few others to slap me back to reality when I feel out of control.

During the 60's I felt empowered - we could change the world. There was a lot of violence and an insane war going on but, we had a generation of young idealists that just gave it their all. I often wonder what Jerry Rubin would be doing today had he not taken his life.

Thanks for the post.

[madmax]

48. I'm not leaving, I just pull that rabbit out

when I scared and freaking out. The country and DU are just stuck with me for better or worse.

You guys are good people and a hell of a lot cheaper than therapy.

[Bucky]

53. : o )

Glad to hear it. We've needed each other so much over that eight years of anticonstitutional hell. There's been too damn many tragedies, all spinning out butterfly effect like from Bush's insane policies; we could all use that cheap alternative to therapy.

Plus some therapists don't seem to be quite up to standard these days.

[cali]

27. It is looking more and more as if Hasan was a very disturbed individual

The army fucked up big time.

[madmax]

30. The Army was recuiting Arabs big time.

BUT!!! No Gays. Can't remember the Arabic Interpreter they threw out because he was gay.

[NoSheep]

32. I'm right there with you; stunned by the growing voices of the ignorant. We have to turn them off.

They've always been there I guess...communication is just easier now. I understand. I've heard the worst in my life today. It's horrifying.:hug:

[madmax]

36. Apex

;) :hug:

[LostInAnomie]

55. If someone shoots up a room of innocent people going about their business...

... the very least he deserves is to be labeled a gunman.

So what if he was a soldier? So were Lee Harvey Oswald and Charles Whitman. Does that mean they don't deserve to be labeled for what they did?

Critiquing his religious beliefs is perfectly acceptable if they led him to commit murder.

[smalll]

57. Inconveniently, this guy shouted "Allahu Akbar" as he killed, was a Muslim, and ...

had been recorded praising Al-Qaeda-esque suicide bombers. So trying to shoehorn this thing into a "blame America first" rant is inopportune, to say the least. :shrug:

[JCMach1]

58. Why is it that Christianity is never blamed when some right-wing religious nut goes

on a shooting spree???

Just a thought...

A nut is a nut regardless of the persuasion.