Is Single Payer really better than a Public Health Insurance model?

[berni_mccoy]

The best health care systems in the world are not Single Payer. Only one of the top 30 are Single Payer. The French System uses a Public Health Insurance Option. As does the UK. In fact there are at least 29 countries above Canada. Canada is one of two countries with a Universal Single Payer system, the other being Taiwan, which ranks lower than the US in terms of health care. So I ask, is a Single Payer system really better than a Public Option?

Rankings from the WHO here: http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

[joeycola]

1. I think 1 of 3 $ goes to administrative costs. We already have Medicare

administration set up-but would only need to be expanded. Now this with new stuff-whatever it is--just think of the administrative cost!!

[Eric J in MN]

2. The UK has socialized medicine, with doctors and nurses as government employees. NT

NT

[Cant trust em]

3. Good on you for being bold enough to ask this question.

I hope you don't get crapped on for even wondering this.

[clear eye]

11. Not bold, but deceptive.

Sorry you were taken in.

See what the European systems really are in my post http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6945950&mesg_id=6946190

Please be my guest in Googling and verifying my info.

[berni_mccoy]

13. Before you start calling people liars, you ought to learn the difference between Single Payer and

Universal Healthcare.

[Cant trust em]

18. I think it's important to ask questions and actually engage in the issue.

I think that around here we go with a lot of conventional wisdom.

[Deep13]

4. I'm not sure I know the distinction.

As has been noted, in some countries, notably the UK, doctors and nurses are all public employees. So single-payer is a compromise. Public option is a cave-in with a few concessions.

[clear eye]

7. Not your fault you're confused by the OP.

The OPer is either massively mistaken, or lying.

[Toucano]

5. I don't care what you call it anymore. All I know is we pay people a ton of taxpayer dollars

to build bombs, missiles, guns, planes and tanks.

We could pay them to provide health care instead.

[clear eye]

6. Just about every line of your post is either false or misleading.

The French have all their basic medical care covered by the national Assurance Maladie as everyone who's watched Sicko knows. If you want to take out insurance for plastic surgery or some other premium or elective services you are permitted to find a private insurer to cover that. All truly necessary health expenses are covered by their single-payer program.

Not only is the same thing true about cost coverage in the UK, but their entire system of providers is socialized, ie. gov't run, with the exception of upscale doctors for pampering the very wealthy.

All the countries above Canada have either similar single-payer systems to France's, except Spain which has a totally socialized system similar to the UK, or like Germany, Switzerland, and the Netherlands, have a completely cost-controlled, premium-regulated system of private insurers who would be out of business the minute they dropped a single patient for needing a medically-recommended treatment.

Where are you getting this crap? Do you think DUers are idiots?

[berni_mccoy]

8. France doesn't have a single payer system. Say it all you wan't, but it won't make it true.

And the UK isn't one system. If you are referring to England, they fall far short of France's public health insurance system at 18.

Health Care in France: A Mandatory Public Health Insurance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_France

[clear eye]

9. 1st line of wiki article is "France, like other countries in Europe, has a system of universal

health care largely financed by government through a system of national health insurance." That means the government, ie. a single payer, pays the providers.

What do you think single-payer means? Socialized medicine? Please get your info straight.

[berni_mccoy]

10. Wow, you don't know the difference between single payer and universal healthcare.

You should take some time to learn about the topic before posting about it.

[clear eye]

12. When the universal healthcare is paid for by one entity, it is single-payer.

Off to ignore w/ you for wasting my time.

[berni_mccoy]

14. Ignore if you want, but that won't change the fact that Universal is about access

while Single Payer or Public Insurance are how expenses are paid.

[Selatius]

15. But nobody I have ever heard of can opt out of public health insurance in France.

Because their health care system is paid for through a payroll tax that everybody has to pay, something like a 23% payroll tax from what I remember. Only for elective surgery do people opt to purchase private supplemental insurance to cover what the government does not. The French public health insurance system covers roughly 80% of costs. Private supplemental insurance covers the rest, and the poorest in France get covered without out-of-pocket costs on the taxpayers' dime.

Taiwan uses health savings accounts funded by a mandatory payroll deduction with the government providing backing in case the account is run down in an emergency when one has an account that has insufficient funds to cover the bill. Their cost control structure is supreme. Their costs have actually gone down or remained the same rather than gone up.

[berni_mccoy]

16. Yes, they have a mandate. It's a universal insurance system, but it isn't single payer.

[DireStrike]

19. It is largely single-payer

Basic needs are covered by the government.

Some elective things are not. That's the exception rather than the rule.

[Selatius]

20. We're splitting hairs here. A pure single-payer system can be considered as just a standard.

Nobody quite reaches it, but it's a standard that others can use to compare against. The UK's National Health Service comes closest to the definition of single-payer, but people can elect to go into the private system, although only the wealthiest tend to do this along with ideologues who have problems with nationalized health care or socialism in general.

In France, the government mandate extends through payroll taxes, the same as in Social Security here in the US, and nobody is really allowed to go all private unlike in the UK, but it doesn't cover everything, so it isn't single-payer either, but on a whole, 80% coverage for emergency care/non-elective medical procedures is still fairly close. The notion that one replaces the public insurance covered by French Sécurité Sociale with a private plan is alien. Supplemental, yes, but not comprehensive private insurance.

A health care mandate in the American sense is a moot point in both France and the UK. If you pay taxes, such as a payroll tax that everybody pays, essentially, you already have access to some kind of coverage; it's only fair. It only becomes an issue when you set up a system that directly competes with private insurance, as opposed to a system that sets a standard and then lets anything beyond that be offered by private entities. Massachusetts is an example of a private coverage mandate coupled with taxpayer subsidies for low-income people on a sliding scale. Unfortunately, Massachusetts' system is suffering major cost overruns due to lack of competition in the private sector and a larger than expected pool of people requiring subsidies.

A "robust" Public Option coupled with a mandate could seriously go a long way towards driving down costs by forcing competition back into the marketplace, but in both the current House and Senate bills, "robust" is far from describing the Public Option. It is really just a lockbox that the sickest and oldest people that private insurance doesn't want to cover stuff them in, on the taxpayers' dime.

[clear eye]

21. The payroll tax doesn't all go to health care.

Some for their generous penision plan, and some for other social safety net programs.

[Kermitt Gribble]

17. It's better than the 'public option'

our congress in proposing by a mile. Without similar regulations to what France has on their insurance cos, our 'Public Option' is a sham.

[kenny blankenship]

22. This shit again. 80 % of medical spending in France is GOVERNMENT SPENDING

Paid for out of payroll and general income taxes. That's an EVEN HIGHER percentage than Canada, which spends only 70 out of every 100 dollars on medical costs through its government plan.

Getting real fucking tired of the LIES!

[berni_mccoy]

23. It's actually only 70%. And only 62% of the hospitals are public. They do have for-profit orgs

both on the service side and the insurance side. Not lies, but reality. And the reality is not one single person can answer the question as to why Single Payer would be better than a Public Option.