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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 03:23 PM
Original message
Seems we are still refusing to stand up for issues that might irritate Republicans.
Edited on Fri Nov-06-09 03:23 PM by madfloridian
I am hearing that abortion and immigration are two of the issues that are holding up the vote on health care reform. They shouldn't be, they should be topics on which Democrats have firm stands. Yet now we hear about 40 House Democrats who want abortion payments stopped even in private insurance plans.

And I remember when Rahm Emanuel warned the DCCC's candidates against progressive immigration reform.

The candidates that were picked to run by the DCCC were very controlled about how to handle the issues. They were subjected to Rahm's view of the immigration issue, that the Democrats could not win unless they turned to the right.

From 2008

"Two weeks ago he sent a DCCC-connected candidate training a video of himself haranguing congressional candidates to “move right” on immigration or risk defeat at the hands of Republicans. This is similar to the terrible advice he shoved down candidates’ throats last year, although then he was demanding they move to the right on Iraq, dooming the candidacies of Lois Murphy, Francine Busby, Ken Lucas, Tammy Duckworth, Diane Farrell and several others who went along with his demands. Yesterday Markos asked a blaring question at DailyKos: Is Rahm racist, or merely scared?. While walking the picket line at the WGA strike at Fox today Jane and I came up with the idea of inviting Emanuel over to FDL to ask him why he thinks adopting Tom Tancredo’s immigration ideas is a good idea and why he’s unleashed Heath Shuler to do just that."


Two issues that should be clear cut under a Democratic administration, yet they are not defined at all clearly.

There is more:

I remember what Steny Hoyer said last year when the FISA bill was passed. This one part stood out at me.

Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.) called the House bill a “capitulation.” Firedoglake.com blogger Jane Hamsher — delivering the lowest possible blow from the liberal blogosphere — declared Hoyer “the new Joe Lieberman.”

Hoyer knew it was coming, and he persevered anyway. That he did so speaks volumes about who he is: a master of cloakroom politics who can use his friendships across the aisle to strike deals, even if others demand that his party hew closer to the positions that put it in power in 2006.

In an interview with Politico on Monday, Hoyer called the FISA legislation a “significant victory” for the Democratic Party — one that neutralized an issue Republicans might have been able to use against Democrats in November while still, in his view, protecting the civil liberties of American citizens.

How Hoyer got the deal done


Remember all the activism, the phone calls, the emails to discourage the retroactive immunity of the telecoms? In the end it came down to one sentence from Hoyer: that in the end we "neutralized an issue Republicans might have been able to use against Democrats in November."

I remember in June when the Washington Post's Dan Balz quoted some words from AL From, the founder of the Democratic Leadership Forum, a think tank which controls the Democratic Party's policies.

"One of the important things we had to do in 1992 was remove the obstacles that kept people from voting Democratic in the first place," he said.

That included addressing issues of welfare, fiscal discipline and crime. "As long as people thought we were going to take money form people who worked and give it to people who didn't work, they didn't want to listen to anything else," he added.
"The Republicans have to make people understand that they're not just a right-wing, southern party."

During its formative years, the DLC was seen as an organization dominated by southern Democrats who were disaffected from the direction of the national party. The group was sharply criticized by liberal Democrats. Jesse Jackson, who took the DLC's critique of the party personally, dubbed them "Democrats for the Leisure Class."

Critics believed the DLC catered too much to the business community, was overly hostile to organized labor (though there was a later thawing in that relationship) and for what they claimed was an effort to force the party to turn its back on minorities in favor of the white middle class.

What Republicans Can Learn from the DLC


When you remove all obstacles that keep people from voting Democratic....you stand for nothing at all. You don't stand up for women's rights, you don't stand up for the rights of gays, you simply act wimpy on issues.

Actually that was the goal of the DLC in the first place according to one of the founders, Simon Rosenberg.

Freed from taking positions that might make it hard to win.

"Simon Rosenberg, the former field director for the DLC who directs the New Democrat Network, a spin-off political action committee, says, "We're trying to raise money to help them lessen their reliance on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party. In that way," he adds, "they are ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."


If you marginalize the progressive voices of your party, you might pay a dear price for that later.

There's a lot of money pouring in from other sources right now, all seems well to those inside the DC bubble.

But our party will have to take some firm stands. We will need to stand up and speak out loudly and clearly, and not in that weak little wimpy DLC voice the leadership used for years.







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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. The GOP said from Day One that they would use any means necessary
to block HCR. What better than thorney issues like Abortion
and Immigration?

You are so right, our side needs to stand up for something.
Once again we have in our party, DINOs. who are either pro-life
themselves or they pledged to the the Republicans in their districts
or states they would vote Pro-Life on important issues.
Too bad they work to get Republican votes in their district
rather than develop a strong Democratic Base for themselves.
Oh I forgot, very often the Democrats are not rich enough.(sarcasm)

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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. They know the media works for the Republicans
Lou Dobbs rants every day about immigrants and how they cause all of our problems.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. But we still have to take stands.
Our party could be far more forceful than it is.
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C_Lawyer09 Donating Member (690 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. Will have to be more forceful
After supposed campaign lessons learned from Willie Horton, and Lee Atwater tricks, I'll never forget the bungling response to the Swiftboat vets for truth hogwash. I'm forever waiting for Democrats to "sock it to 'em" and I keep waiting. If Democrats could get re-inspired, fired up, as the Kennedy Democrats were in the 1960's we could legislate. Feels like the party is losing its soul.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Since the late 80s the goal of the Democrats has been not to offend...
anyone who might vote Democratic. The goal was to take no stands that would offend.

"Freed from taking positions that might make it hard to win.

"Simon Rosenberg, the former field director for the DLC who directs the New Democrat Network, a spin-off political action committee, says, "We're trying to raise money to help them lessen their reliance on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party. In that way," he adds, "they are ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5185
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. Fantastic post Madflo! K + R ! Another poster today posted FDR's
Edited on Fri Nov-06-09 04:02 PM by saracat
Bill of Rights and commented how sad it was no Democrat today would have the guts to run on that platform.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. In 2003 I had to fight to get reproductive rights included in my state party platform
because the argument was it "offended" the GOP. I got a watered down version inserted but I pointed out that this was the "Democratic Party Platform" and wasn't supposed to please the GOP!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I have seen that happen in our area several times.
We had a candidate running who supported women's rights and gay rights. The party leaders for the county and state got quietly behind a candidate who looked just like the Republican. It was heartbreaking. The man could not speak could not debate. In fact he was a Republican at heart. He lost.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. You can tell you have lost ground when women's right are compared to facelifts
and considered a form of elective surgery. That is happening in threads at DU as we speak.

You can tell you have lost ground when women's reproductive rights, rights to birth control... are not even mentioned in the health care reform plans.

"None of the bills emerging from the House and Senate require insurers to cover all the elements of a standard gynecological "well visit," leaving essential care such as pelvic exams, domestic violence screening, counseling about sexually transmitted diseases, and, perhaps most startlingly, the provision of birth control off the list of basic benefits all insurers must cover. Nor are these services protected from "cost sharing," which means that, depending on what's in the bill that emerges from the Senate, and, later, the contents of a final bill, women could wind up having to pay for some of these services out of their own pockets. So far, mammograms and Pap tests are covered in every version of the legislation."

YET....I hear Medicare payments may be cut for mammograms though elderly women are much at risk.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Make that women's rights....plural. Too late to edit...
just saw my mistake.

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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. Have had similar thoughts -- pretty much agree. nt
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
10. Huff post diary verifies that abortion is one issue holding it up.
Edited on Fri Nov-06-09 07:47 PM by madfloridian
AND it looks like women are the losers. It looks like majorities don't matter when it comes down to the rights of women.

Abortion Opponents Cannot Be Allowed to Derail Health Care Reform

A truly alarming storm is brewing in the ongoing health care reform saga. Bipartisan Congressional opponents of abortion are explicitly threatening to vote no on any health care bill that does not explicitly prohibit abortion coverage.

Such a prohibition, if put into effect, would actually have the shocking consequence of regulating
abortion in the private insurance market as well.
Since 1976, there has been a Congressional prohibition (commonly known as the Hyde Amendment) which prohibits Medicaid from using any federal monies to pay for abortions. What some antiabortion foes in Congress are now proposing is to go farther than the Hyde Amendment. Specifically, under 3 versions of Congressional bills in the House, lower income Americans would be eligible for subsidies to aid them in purchasing health insurance. However, if antiabortion legislators succeed, the subsidies could not be used to purchase a policy that in any way offers abortion coverage. This would have the effect of essentially legislating abortion coverage in the private insurance market and taking away from women a right that they currently have with their private insurance. When almost 90% of private policies currently cover abortion services according to a 2002 study by the Guttmacher Institute, this change would be seismic.


There is more:

Unfortunately, it is now a group of Congressional Democrats that are raising their hackles at the issue of abortion coverage. To me, they are akin to Joe Lieberman and his efforts to block health care reform by threatening to vote no on one of the most important issues our society faces--providing universal health care. Many may not realize that in Congress today there are more anti-choice votes, than pro-choice votes and thus the threat that the issue of abortion coverage provides is indeed a real one. The analogy though to the debate over reproductive care in the stimulus bill is important. At the time of the debate over this proposal, the Congressional Budget Office estimated that, if adopted, the Medicaid Family Planning State Option would have saved the government over $700 million in reduced costs. Similar savings could be realized if proper health coverage, including coverage for abortions, were given to women.

In short, we are now at a critical crossroads in the health care debate. Now is not the time to compromise or cave on comprehensive health care. True health care reform means finally providing women with equal access to health care--and health care that is truly comprehensive in its nature-which de facto must include abortion coverage.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. Unrecs show at greatest page.
General Discussion
Seem we are still refusing to stand up for issues that might irritate Republicans.
+8 votes : By madfloridian

Not that it matters. But that's okay, what I said is true. Stand up for women's rights now or never.

And quit distancing from gay rights.

Immigrants need our party to stand up for them.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
12. Damn, looks like I was right. Stupak will offer anti-abortion amendment...
and looks it's a go for the bill. :shrug:

http://www.apnews.com/ap/db_6776/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=RyqGYagK&detailindex=1

"A vote is expected on Saturday - after President Barack Obama makes a late morning trip to the Capitol to make one final pitch for the legislation.

According to Rep. Bart Stupak of Michigan, he and other abortion opponents will be given a chance to insert tougher abortion restrictions into the legislation during debate on the House floor.

The leadership hopes that no matter how that vote turns out, Democrats will then unite to give the health care bill a majority over unanimous Republican opposition."
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. Slinkerwink covering the Stupak amendment at Daily Kos
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/7/801716/-Blue-Dogs-Are-Taking-Away-Womens-Rights!-CALL-NOW!

She has numbers to call. She lists the one leaning anti-choice.

Leaning anti-choice

Altmire (D, PA-04)
Barrow (D, GA-12)
Berry (D, AR-01)
Boccieri (D, OH-16)
Bright (D, AL-02)
Capito (R, WV-02)
Donnelly (D, IN-02)
Hill (D, IN-09)
Jenkins (R, KS-02)
Kildee (D, MI-05)
Lance (R, NJ-07)
Lee, C. (R, NY-26)
Matheson (D, UT-02)
Mollohan (D, WV-01)
Ortiz (D, TX-27)
Paulsen (R, MN-03)
Perriello (D, VA-05)
Rahall (D, WV-03)
Ross (D, AR-04)
Spratt (D, SC-05)
Wilson, C. (D, OH-06)
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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. K&R! n/t
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
15. i just read your first paragraph
and was just thinking, i'll never vote for anyone who is anti-choice again. i'm listening to the house today and just getting more pissed by the minute. gawd dammit it's a medical procedure and should be covered unless and until it is outlawed.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. It's frustrating.
We are letting the religious right control the message totally on the rights of women and gays.

Democrats even raised the amount to go to abstinence only training after they controlled congress.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
16. McJoan at DKos covering the abortion amendment
Women's rights are apparently expendable.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/11/7/801738/-HCR-House-Debate:-The-Stupak-Amendment

I am surprised at some of the names mentioned.

This would prevent many private insurance companies from paying for abortion, not just Medicaid.

" Asked whether her allies in the pro-choice movement would support the bill with the language offered yesterday by Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.), Speaker Nancy Pelosi offered a one-word answer: "Yes."

"I don't believe any of us believe we can hold up what we've been fighting for ... and that's health care," said Rep. Louise Slaughter (D-N.Y.).


But the lawmakers said they would work hard to whip the Stupak amendment in hopes of keeping it out of the final bill, and several said they weren't ready to declare how they would vote if Stupak's language made it in.

"We're nor conceding that," Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.) said. "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it."

Rep. Diana DeGette (D-Colo.) said "pro-choice members are not happy this morning."

We're with you, Diana. Keep whipping and keep fighting against this amendment, and force the handful of anti-choice Dems to make the tough decision over whether they will be willing to blow up the bill. One member says that if their bluff is called, they'll fold:

Rep. Mike Honda (D-Calif.) told the Huffington Post he felt confident that a compromise reached last night -- to allow a vote of Rep. Bart Stupak's (D-Mich.) amendment, which would make it harder for insurers to provide abortion -- would placate lawmakers on the fence, regardless of whether the amendment passed.

"Will that be sufficient?" Honda asked. "I didn't hear anybody say 'Yeah, that would be sufficient. But I think there is a sense that it would (satisfy these folks)."
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. A Party that Doesn't Stand Up For Me, Loses Me
As a mother of daughters, choice is paramount. Universal, single payer healthcare is paramount. Civil rights and privacy and no torture and no illegal wars are non-negotiable and cannot be fudged for "security". There is no security if I'm not secure from my own government abusing me. No corporate welfare, privatizing gains and socializing losses. Jobs at home for Americans.

It's not a lot to ask, that one's government be of the People, by the People, for the People.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. I am with Angry Mouse at Daily Kos....it is not ok to pass it without women's rights.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/7/801746/-No,-Its-Not-Okay

"Today, the Democratic party is letting women know, once again, that we are a single-issue special interest.

And our rights can be compromised away to appease Catholic Bishops, Blue Dog Democrats, and the oh-so-delicate sensibilities of anti-choice taxpayers who don't want to see their tax dollars spent on women's health.

And much to my horror, it seems that a few members of our own community think that's perfectly acceptable. Have to pass the bill, after all, no matter who is sacrificed.

And it is not okay."
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
19. They aren't appeasing Republicans...They ARE Republicans

If you look at the policy and not the letter after their name, the legislation passed & promoted is not center, it is RIGHT WING.

Don't give them the cover of reaching across party lines or they must appease Republicans to win. It is all BULLSHIT.
They desperately need to keep the two party game in play because if the American people finally wake up to the fact that they have NO real representation, all hell could break loose.

I am hoping for all hell breaking loose.

The democratic party is a sham (with the few exceptions that we can all list on less then ten fingers)
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pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
21. Fire weak-assed Democrat Surrender Monkeys
along with the Blue Dogs and Republicans who are up front about having sold out to corporate interests. It's time the People began getting results in their interests from THEIR government!

It's time we hired a new congress who will work for us. If we aren't Progressive we're moving further behind.
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
22. Rahm wouldn't be so measured about immigration reform
if it were Israelis being shot at the border.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 11:19 AM
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