Will the Ft. Hood incident increase or decrease support for the war?

[Nikki Stone1]

In my mind, it supports bringing the troops home.

But I'm sure for others, it will support killing Muslims.

Any thoughts?

[Echo In Light]

1. Little doubt as to how certain establishment interests will spin it

[tekisui]

2. Those who want the war to continue will deride the opposing view

as using dead soldiers to make political points. I think it will make everything worse.

[still_one]

3. I believe it will have no effect. However, the increase in casualties coming out of Afghanistan

will have an effect

It took too long, but that is what happened in Viet Nam

[FSogol]

8. +1. I agree. n/t

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

4. Neither

I also think some posters saying it's a tool for the Army to drum up war support is bullshit. They don't want the shitstorm directed at other Muslim soldiers over this.

I would like someone in the media to use this as a chance to mention how many young men do kill themselves at the base every year. A lot of death going down there, long before this.

[Blue-Jay]

5. Little to No effect.

[TwilightGardener]

6. Which war? Iraq is winding down. Afghanistan--I don't think it will

have an impact on support either way.

[Autumn]

7. I'm really hoping it will decrease support for the war,

I was really happy to see the heads on TV talking about the stress on multiple deployments. I hope they keep it up.

[ginnyinWI]

9. my first reaction was "more fallout from the Bush years."

I don't know that most people would react that way though. I first heard it on NPR and they coupled it with info on lack of funding and overall support for the military's infrastructure going way back.

[TomClash]

10. There's more than one war

There's Iraq, Afghanistan, The Eternal War on Terror and the usual proxy wars the US conducts.

More to your point, I think it will be spun to continue the Iraq/Afghan wars.

[Nikki Stone1]

11. I was thinking about Afghanistan when I wrote the OP. And the 40K troops the general wants

But someone pointed out that this could be used to bolster support for Iran. I'm not so sure about that one.

[TomClash]

14. I think Iran is a tough sell

There are a lot of people who are strongly against bombing, blockading or invading Iran. There's no way the President is pursuing those options right now.

I think we should begin withdrawing from Afghanistan.

[Nikki Stone1]

23. I think so too. It's also a little late

Too many people know what the deal is. In that sense, Cheney was right in wanting to attack in 2005 while Americans were still spinning. Thank God for those that delayed him and these plans!

[TomClash]

24. There was a lot of bureaucratc pushback

Cheney was discredited by 2005. State/CIA won the Iran battle and they are running with the ball.

[Nikki Stone1]

25. You got a link on that?

I'd love to read the whole story behind it.

[TomClash]

26. Sorry, no link

I heard a lot of chatter from friends, mostly bad during 43's Administration.

[TomClash]

27. Here's a taste of the bureaucratic infighting

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/5779

[SIMPLYB1980]

12. Not at all. This case has no bearing on troop levels.

Imo.

[rucky]

13. It brings the focus on the Muslims "over here"

The way Ft. Hood is handling this with the press is atrocious. They're the ones planting the "terrorist cell" seeds - breeding fear and mistrust amongst their own military & giving bigots more ammunition. I think they're trying to take the focus off of the other issues surrounding this tragedy - issues that would be embarrassing to the military, if confronted directly: This was a guy treating PTSD at Walter Reed - he knows intimately how people transform when they return from combat. He was career military - before 2001. He disclosed - at least to his family - that his work and his interpersonal relationships were affected by discrimination he received since 9/11.

He was transferred out of Walter Reed due to a poor performance review, but nobody in psychiatry and counseling seem to find it necessary to take screening procedures for their own staff? Every counselor I know is required by their employer to attend therapy, themselves. I think it's a standard thing in the field. There must be a reason for that, and I think we just saw it. Why was he being sent to combat instead of being screened for his poor performance? Are ANY soldiers screened properly before and after combat?

[C_Lawyer09]

29. So easy to blame the system versus the criminal

"Every counselor you know is required to participate in therapy by their employer". Boy, is this a little gem of knowledge. Career military, in this case Army, is 20 years, not 8. Here is a novel idea that many Soldiers have initiated. If they don't like the Army after their initial term, they get out! If they really don't like it, they take an other than honorable discharge and get out, or they go AWOL. You don't know anything about the screening procedures that did or did not take place. This may come as a surprise to you Mr. perfect world scenario, but the reason most of these horrific acts take place is that nobody predicted them. To answer your last question, Soldiers are screened before and after combat, moreover, the Army health care system, regardless of constantly being maligned has done a damn good job with the resources they possess and the patient care volume they contend with. The most sickening of ironies. This middle aged man whom recieved a top notch education at taxpayer expense, takes the lives of those whom he was entrusted to protect. F****** sickening.

[rucky]

30. Dig a little deeper, yourself.

It's more complicated than you, Gen. Cone, and FOX News suggest. What's fucking sickening is when someone presents a facet worth analyzing, others take it as an either/or proposition. I wasn't offering and excuse, or a simple explanation. I was offering an angle to analyze in a very complicated puzzle. It's important to examine.

Until we stop writing off each mass killing as a fluke, nothing systematic will be done to identify the warning signs and prevent these down the road. You said it yourself - "nobody predicted them." It doesn't mean that no measures can possibly be taken to predict them in the future. That would require us to examine the system. I never claimed to be an expert, but here are some voices more qualified than you or I that are asking the same questions. Read up if you're interested in solutions - or stick with the "lone crazy gunman" theory like most folks do every time something like this happens...

http://www.alternet.org/story/143779/focusing_on_ft._hood_killer's_beliefs_are_an_easy_out_to_avoid_the_deeper_reasons_for_the_massacre

http://us.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2009/11/06/hln.gunman.warning.signs.cnn

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

15. Probably no effect, but if any then decrease

Americans are pretty candy-ass and tend to recoil from the unexpected or depressing

[piratefish08]

16. it will be spun in BOTH directions. it's already started.

[Winterblues]

17. Was this a criminal act or an "Act of War"?

Should this Major be shipped off to some foreign country for torture?

[unhappycamper]

18. We don't torture.

Remember? :hide:

[frazzled]

19. It does for me, at least in my first reaction

I have been feeling that the Afghanistan question is extremely complex. Especially when you factor in Pakistan, which is, I believe, really the issue. So I've been feign to jump fully onto the "bring them home now" bandwagon, even as I am extremely wary of escalation. I honestly haven't known what the correct answer is, and don't pretend to.

The way in which this incident moves me towards the no-escalation/wind the thing down position more firmly--at least at the moment--is that it highlights how broken our military is right now, after 8 years of depredations. This guy, already under suspicion, was retained because they needed him (or that's my guess at least). It's a story probably repeated a thousand times over because we are desperate for bodies (especially doctors). I am coming to the conclusion that you cannot fight a war of any scope or duration with a volunteer army. So without a draft, I am not so sure we are capable of fighting a war like this.

I think we need to stop and fix our military. Rebuild it, like we did after Vietnam. I'm no military expert whatsoever, but to me this is a warning sign. And for that reason alone, I am wary of putting any further stress on it.

So my reasons have nothing to do with politics, ideology, or motives. It's purely pragmatic. I think our national defense is being weakened by stretching our military so thin.

[Critters2]

20. Faux will spin it in such a way as to increase support for this folly. nt

[951-Riverside]

21. I refuse to let a mass murdering coward influence me so I'm not going to answer that n/t

[stray cat]

22. Why should it affect anyone's opinion?

Did murdering an abortion doctor change the nations stance on abortions?

[C_Lawyer09]

28. What about this incident supports bringing the troops home?

There are many rational arguments for bringing the troops home, I'm curious why you feel the psychotic acts of a field grade officer have any bearing on tactical decisions. Is his a case of phantom PTSD? I find it morally repugnant that all branches of the military are replete with lower enlisted Soldiers Sailors Airmen and Marines, all of whom have taken their ration of shit, some on a daily basis, by virtue of their status as a "non-rate". Nontheless, these same individuals buck up and execute, regardless of their fears, personal feelings etc. Aaron Watada, the Lt. from Fort Lewis was an example of an officer who took a moral stand, a very unpopular one at that, and put nobody but himself at risk. So this Major gives counsel, stateside, after the Army pays for his very expensive education and livlihood, and now we talk about some of the abuse or upcoming deployment that could have put him over the edge. Give me a friggin break. I can assure you, a Marine Corps infantry Private who has been out of Boot Camp six months will take more crap than this piece of shit would have taken in an entire career. There are no excuses or justifications for his actions. By the way, the Uniform Code of Military Justice is extremely punitive for cases of disrespect in any form, especially from enlisted to officer. To say that this heinous criminal act somehow serves as part of a logical basis for troop redeployment is ridiculous.