So this guy walks into a bar...(hypothetically)

[cherokeeprogressive]

whips out a couple of pistols and kills 12 while wounding 31.

Why in the FUCK would his religion have any bearing whatsoever on whether or not he was right or wrong in doing what he did?

He fucked up 12 families for GENERATIONS.

He turned a whole bunch of children into ORPHANS.

He turned the lives of a whole bunch of PARENTS into something they'll now merely have to survive, rather than ENJOY.

He killed innocent people.

Are we (hypothetically) going to go out of our way to defend this person? Will we try and rationalize his actions so as to make them acceptable somehow?

On DU... YUP. That's EXACTLY what we'll do. Some of us anyway.

[1]

1. we have to defend him. (i think it's in the rules here.)

[cherokeeprogressive]

3. It sure seems like it. It's never just MURDER, but murder with some kind of motivation that someone

other than the murderer is responsible for.

He ruined 12 families for GENERATIONS.

I shan't defend him for a moment.

He was a member of the U.S. Military. He perpetrated his act on a military reservation. The military will execute him for it, outside the purview of the civilian justice system.

I won't be sad when he's gone.

[1]

5. i blame bush...

[cherokeeprogressive]

8. Getting back to the OP... You'd blame * for that?

[Hannah Bell]

11. i'd blame him for 7 years of war which has killed more innocents than this joker

could ever aspire to.

i blame him as well for my friend's five tours of combat duty which have succeeded in driving him stark raving psycho.

i blame him for tightening the screws on americans financially & the creation of an atmosphere of fear, hatred & tension.

[1]

17. sorry, i was just being a good du'er. we blame bush for everything...

i put on my du posting cap and just blurted out "i blame bush!"

no one ever questioned it here before. i always got positive replies to that post here in the past.


say...

are you telling me you don't blame bush? *looks sideways* are you some kind of disruptor? should i hit the alert alarm on your ass?

someone help me out here! tell me how to think!

[murielm99]

2. I won't.

We condemn the Christian fundies who advocate killing abortion providers. We know they caused the death of Dr. Tiller and others. We know they oppress women.

All religious extremism needs to be avoided. It is up to the faithful and the leadership of any religious persuasion to act as watchdogs.

This is not easy. I am a Christian. I don't necessarily feel responsible for the Christian right wingnuts. I resent being lumped with them. I can speak out and encourage other Christians to do the same. I can encourage my denomination to follow Christ's example rather than Old Testament practices.

I guess we will have to see what is posted here.

[Journeyman]

4. So I take it there are people on this site who, with very sketchy information. . .

are constructing elaborate rationales for an act which cannot possibly be comprehended so soon after the fact?

*Sigh*

This place plunges towards irrelevancy faster with each passing day. . .

I'm just glad I read very little beyond some OPs and the writings of a select few whose opinions I've come to value.

[notadmblnd]

14. I haven't seen it

Seems there's a whole bunch of people lately attacking DU without providing any proof. All I've seen are people saying his religion had nothing to do with it. If that can be translated into defending the guy in anyone's mind, then IMO they're just as screwed up in their thinking as any wing nut. This was not a terrorist attack. It was an attack by a guy who apparently got fed up and snapped.


That statement should in no way be construed as defending the guy.

So, is this one of the OP whose writings you respect?

[Journeyman]

15. Your take on this is similar to mine at the moment. . .

I think some people just can't deal with life or the troubles they encounter. Has nothing to do with their background or beliefs or training or anything like that -- some people just can't deal with life. And this really holds true in the military, or at least, I certainly ran into my share of such "lost souls" during my time in the war.

Like you, my statement should not be construed as defending or indicting anyone -- there's no way for anyone to know anything until the investigation is at least started!

And no, I haven't seen any proof of anyone on DU defending this person. I've assiduously avoided all those threads. But then, over the years I've seen a lot of mind-blowing stupidity on these boards so nothing would surprise me.


Oh, and I opened this thread because I thought it was a "guy walks into a bar" joke (of which, I read a very funny one a day or so ago).

[Tunkamerica]

16. I agree

I see a lot more attacking certain viewpoints than i actually see those viewpoints expressed. One person says something unpopular and fifty post new threads to attack. Then it's a given that all of DU agrees with whomever you disagree with. It's so rational.

[Hekate]

6. I sure won't defend such an appalling act

I do admit, though, that until his name was released I kind of hoped he would prove to be an Aryan Brotherhood skinhead or something so we could avoid further ethnic division here... He is an American, in any case. One of ours, and a highly educated man. And he is as much a mass murderer as the killer at Virginia Tech. I hope he survives for his trial.

Hekate

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. "I kind of hoped... Aryan Brotherhood skinhead... so we could avoid FURTHER ethnic division..."

Um...

[Hekate]

13. "Further division at DU" /"Further ethnic division in the US" How's that?

Good night; my brain is tired.

Hekate

[Hannah Bell]

7. all muslins are murderers, doncha know. their religion tells them to kill.

so we must always bring up muslinity when such things happen.

(sarcasm alert)

[Raine]

9. Not me

I won't defend murderers no matter what the religion or lack of it.

edit: spelling

[LostInAnomie]

12. Do we really have to post a statement that murder is wrong?

That would seem kind of self evident, wouldn't it? It also wouldn't lead to much discussion.

It is perfectly legitimate to discuss the possible motives for Hasan's actions. If his religious views contributed to his attacks, then his religious views should be condemned. If PTSD contributed to his attacks, the causes should be condemned. We shouldn't look to excuse him in any way. He is still a monster and probably deserves any punishment we can place on him. But, it is worth taking a look at what led to this monstrosity.

[Turbineguy]

18. Even Cornyn said something smart.

That we should not jump to conclusions early.

Of course he could have meant, "Don't blame this on Bush!"

[Toasterlad]

19. If You Don't Know His Motivation, Why Would You Blame His Religion?

If he walked into a bar and blew away 12 people while screaming, "Yay, Islam!", then I'd certainly think his religion was a factor.

As far as I know, we don't yet know WHY he did it.

[timtom]

20. Superb post!

It's pretty much a stacked deck here when it comes to condemning one while excusing the other.

K&R.