The sad thing about the shooting is that he is (was) a chaplain and a psychiatrist

[question everything]

If a man like that is unstable, how can we hope to offer support to regular soldiers?

Would he had been recruited under normal conditions, when the military has to lower its standard to fill the quota?

And, I could not help noticing the coincidence that he graduate from VA Tech, another site of a mass shooting. No, no connection just one of these strange coincidences.

[AllentownJake]

1. ummm

The man went to medical school and psychiatry school and than had a residency. I'm guessing he was perfectly sane at some point in his life.

[timeforpeace]

52. No, the sad thing is 12 innocent people are dead and there hasn't been one thread about them, much

less sympathy.

[dkf]

2. I was thinking the same sort of thing...

Is there something wrong with him? What kind of diagnosis would this be?

[customerserviceguy]

3. He has an Arabic-sounding name

I'm guessing this will be the focus of discussion of him for quite some time to come.

[question everything]

21. He is of Arab descent

which is not going to make it easy on Muslim communities across the country.

And, the fact that, apparently he made a comment on an Internet site about suicides, and, apparently, was calling Allah Akbar - God is Great - while shooting, will only reinforce the stereotype of Muslims as killers.

How devastating to the families of the killed and wounded.

[Mz Pip]

4. Being a shrink

does not exculde you from having problems.

years ago I knew a woman who was married to a shrink - he verbally abused her and their children, threatened physical violence to her and her parents. It took her quite a while to extricate herself from the relationship because since he was the shrink she must have been the one making it all up. Fortunately there were enough witnesses to prove her right.

Unfortunately being in the healing profession does not make you immune to psychiatic problems.

[question everything]

11. So I've heard

But doesn't the military have some kind of tests to determine the fitness of the ones who are supposed to counsel troops who are sent away and may never return?

[SoCalDem]

32. Sometimes people who gravitate to psychiatry have issues of their own

and specialize in that field because of it. It can make one very empathetic/sympathetic, but it may also predispose them to be overly "involved"

[Pavulon]

5. No he is just an asshole.

he joined before 9.11. Not a questions of standards. He got a free degree he could earn millions with over his life and wanted out. Everyone wants out of the army, I wanted out when I was activated. This guy is a flaming turd and I would not piss on him if he was on fire.

Whatever he claims his motivations were he is a turd who could have blown his brains out or left the country. His spree is his to man up to.

Hopefully his life is shitty right up to the point he is executed.

[SoCalNative]

8. Wow

I think you're lost...Free Republic is thataway >>>

[951-Riverside]

17. Aww

I think someone is in love with a cowardly mass murderer.

[Flabbergasted]

18. Do you have ANY sympathy for this asshole? nt

[Pavulon]

29. So my reaction should be what? Aww poor guy

he got all mad because he got picked on in the army and had to deploy, so its all good for him to go and kill people. I mean who expects to deploy IN THE FUCKING ARMY. Fuck that noise, I managed to deploy and fuck my life all up and not shoot anyone. This guy was regular army, what did he expect? The guy is a worthless piece of shit who shot RANDOM people. Let him burn.

As to your comment, well i think you cram that.

[slackmaster]

26. I agree. He signed up for possible combat duty and got a lot of benefits for it.

Bust a deal, face the Wheel.

[Barack_America]

27. Assholes can't be chaplains and psychiatrists?

[vadawg]

43. [phone]

yup dude joined right out of high school, got all the largesse of the education, seems he was having some issues, now whether they were psychriatic or if he was a lone wolf islamist terrorist, or just decided to off a lot of people we dont know enough yet...

does the military hang people for executions or do they do lethal injections....

[Taverner]

54. Agree 100% except for execution

If anything - - would you rather he dies a painless death on a gurney, or live with what he did in solitary confinement for the rest of his life?

Besides - the death penalty is no power to give a state...

[Lost-in-FL]

6. If it bottered him so much he could have resigned his commision.

Now there are not only 12 people or so dead, but his community will have to suffer from further discrimination for his idiotic act.

[SoCalNative]

9. Not according to one of the reports I heard

he still owed the military time for his education..they weren't letting him off the hook

[Lost-in-FL]

He could pay the cash back and resigned his commission.

I believe that officers have a better chance of getting of the hook than an enlisted person but not sure. I am sure he just received his orders so if he was so against the war he could have resigned a long time ago.

[tabatha]

12. He OFFERED to pay the cash back. They would not accept it.

[Lost-in-FL]

15. Refusing to serve sounds more reasonable than killing 12 people and wounding 30.

He is a psychiatrist and in a better position to know of his condition and when to seek help.

[tabatha]

34. I did not say what he did was acceptable.

I was just saying that he tried to get out the right way.

[Lost-in-FL]

40. You didn't.

I am having a hard time feeling empathy for him. As a psychiatrist he made an oath to "do no harm" independently of his feelings, the military, or his beliefs. He is a doctor first and foremost. Instead of taking care of his personal feelings with ALL of the perks he has as an officer and a doctor, he let this escalate to a temper tantrum a la Colombine. You don't see psychiatrists killing people everyday. It is part of being a doctor or even social workers to seek help, they are trained to do so. Sorry, but i am a vet and I know of the perks officers enjoy and how they are treated compared to enlisted personel. He had a temper tantrum that went horribly wrong.

[question everything]

41. Well said. Thank you (nt)

[Common Sense Party]

19. He could have stuck one of those guns in his own mouth and spared

the families of those 12 innocent people the trauma and pain they are going through tonight.

'Be a mensch. Off yourself and be done with it. Don't make others suffer for your own shortcomings.'

That should be the message to any of these losers who want to go on a rampage or who murder their whole families before committing suicide themselves.

[tabatha]

35. See #34.

[Pavulon]

30. He could have put a round through his head or injected himself with a shitton

of fentanyl. Either option is better than destroying random people for whatever his reason turns out to be.

[tabatha]

36. See #34.

[Raineyb]

38. Too bad some people around here can't take that advice as well. n/t

[tabatha]

14. Read:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/06/us/06suspect.html?_r=2&hp

[question everything]

22. As posted, #19, above, he could have just killed himself

why take 13 - so far - with him?

[tabatha]

37. I did not say what he did was acceptable.

I was just correcting untruthful accusations.

[uppityperson]

49. He. Was. Mentally. ILL.

[Lost-in-FL]

10. duplicate

[951-Riverside]

48. He could have walked around base with his pants down if he wanted out

...murdering 13 people was not necessary but I think he did this for ideological reasons, if he was a fanatic I just hope he didn't spread his ideology to the emotionally and physical fragile soldiers he counseled. The army should interview everyone he's made contact with while working at walter reed.

[Behind the Aegis]

7. Actually, that is one of the professions* at high-risk for suicide and deep depression.

Not excusing his actions, but the profession is fraught with emotional baggage and even the strongest can succumb.

ETA: *psychiatrist

[question everything]

13. Then perhaps they need to get their own counsel

on a regular basis. I've heard that analysts often would get their own analysis by someone else.

Of course, in civilian life we often hear complaints about the medical profession not policing its own. Not just psychiatrists, but surgeons and anesthesiologists.

We put our lives in their hands (also pilots), we need to follow them so they don't snap while tending to our illnesses.

[Behind the Aegis]

16. They often do need and get their own counsel.

It can still be overwhelming and many don't know when to call it quits. Though, I have to say most kill themselves, professionals going rogue and killing others is not at all common.

"Of course, in civilian life we often hear complaints about the medical profession not policing its own. Not just psychiatrists, but surgeons and anesthesiologists."

Sadly, this is also true, much like the "Blue Wall" with the police.

[paulsby]

20. psychiatrists, on average, ARE less stable

if suicide rate is a good judge of stability, than the general population

they are amongst the top professions in suicide per capita

[question everything]

23. Perhaps psychiatrists, then, should be mentally evaluated to see if they should

take this profession before a license is given.

[nolabear]

31. This is one of those times when you need to back up your statements.

"Stable" is a broad term. Do you mean psychiatrists tend to have inherent or acquired traits that make them more susceptible to large swings in mood, deficits in reality testing, and tendency to do themselves harm than other professions? I don't think so. But if they do have problems, then it can be a problem to be exposed to others' sufferieng. Just as with certain other professions.

The statistics I find list first responders like EMT's and emergency room physicians, dentists and white male physicians in general as having the highest suicide rate.

The connection here seems to me to be an overwhelming exposure to trauma, difficulty in having positive relationships with one's patients and never knowing the outcome if one's work, and simply easy access to the drugs that are the most prevalent means of suicide.

Psychiatrists and other mental health workers do suffer from secondary trauma and heaven knows mental health workers are simply human, and it's sometimes very, very hard to absorb human pain, helplessness and the horrors that are brought into treatment. Someone upthread mentioned having some counseling for the counsellor. Believe me, it's common, important, and the best hedge against the kind of despair bordering on psychosis that might incite suicide. I don't know, but I suspect that Major Hasan has something rather different going on. I won't go inot that here because it's so easy to turn speculation into "fact" in any forum.

[paulsby]

33. i said exactly what i mean

i said that IF you are using suicide rate as a proxy for "stable" , stable of course being a very SUBJECTIVE word, then psychiatrists are LESS stable than the general population.

you could say the same thing about police officers. they also have a higher suicide rate than the general population

get off yer high horse and read what i said.

do you deny that psychiatrists have a higher suicide rate than the general pop?

[nolabear]

45. Oh, my horse ain't that high.

Maybe you saw "back up your statements" as an implication that you had done something wrong when I just meant it as a statement. I just wondered what you meant by "stable" and threw out some thoughts myself. You can talk to be or be mad; your choice.

You are right, as far as I know, that psychiatrists commit suicide on the high side of the average. And so do lots of other professions, many of which are helping professions with too little support. From what I hear I do imagine Hasan had some underlying pathology and that it's likely the stories he heard plus the possibiity that he's gotten some frightening attention for being Muslim (and I can't help but wonder how hard it would be to be a Muslim doing counseling with soldiers who had just seen terrible violence done to their friends by Muslims) pushed him over some edge he was already too near. It's very, very complex and extremely compelling.

Peace?

[paulsby]

46. i agree

fwiw, i went to grad school for psychology. i know how messed up these people are :)

but seriously folks, yes. that was my point. heck, my profession has a high suicide rate. and unlike many professions, we take a battery of psychological tests before being hired. these people aren't wacked out BEFORE they take the job. the job does it to them. it's a small %age, but it's notable. just like psychiatrists.

[nolabear]

56. That makes two of us.

who went to grad school in Psychology And I practice, have for many years. I swear, except for the secondary trauma that happens in those extreme circumstances and the few people who go into the field without working on their own issues and without the safety net of supervision, colleague support and lots of self-care, I find my colleagues to be a pretty well put together bunch. Guess we had different experiences.

[zalinda]

24. He just snapped

He had been harassed constantly about being Muslim after 9/11. He sat and listened to horror stories from those serving in the Middle East, and then they wanted to send him over there. He probably had a form of PSTD. While that doesn't excuse him for what he did, it is understandable.

zalinda

[riderinthestorm]

53. We only have the word of his aunt that he was "harassed"

We have absolutely no corroborating evidence, and a whole lot of other evidence to the contrary.

He was an MD working at one of the country's finest hospitals. The aunt is implying that Walter Reed allows it's professional staff to be taunted regularly with such stuff like "camel jockeys" without any recourse? That alone sounds very suspicious. Beyond that the military is damn ugly about that kind of bullshit aimed at commissioned officers - especially ones as ranking as Hassan. There's protocol that any staff member can file for grievances on harrassment. If Hassan was "constantly" harassed since 9/11, there were many, many channels to file that grievance - I find it hard to believe that anyone who was constantly harassed for 8 years never filed a grievance. Perhaps something will turn up but if Hassan did file a grievance, I find it very hard to presume the military let it persist after that.

[zalinda]

55. Many women don't complain about the treatment

that they are given in the service. They have learned that to do so will only bring more harassment. Many women get raped in the service, and again do not report it. The military is not like the public sector.

BTW, my sister was harassed constantly in the Air Force, she did report it and the harassment increased. It got so bad that she left service, even though she had meant it to be her career. She doesn't talk about that time, ever. We still don't know all that went on, but I guess it got pretty bad.

zalinda

[nightrain]

25. very tragic that he did not get help for himself. Self-care is essential in

high stress work, and elsewhere as well...

And it's hard to get security people, police, fire people, etc to get help for themselves...

We're probably seeing PTSD/compassion fatigue/burnout and fear of annihilation in action.

Hope Obama is paying attention and will use this as information as he decides whether to send more troops to hell-holes.

[watercolors]

28. I remember reading that psychiatrist are at top of list

for committing suicide. Can anyone imagine what is is like to have to listen these troubled men and woman who have to deal with some very traumatic things. I don't think we can pre judge this man right now. I'm feeling such despair for those dead and injured. My grandson will be leaving for second tour in Afghanistan, he is not looking forward to it.

[undeterred]

39. We need Muslim chaplins.

Healers are just as human as everybody else and sometimes they break. If only a colleague had seen it coming.

[amandabeech]

42. The Muslim chaplain from Ft. Hood was just on the News Hour. n/t

[Obamanaut]

44. The sad thing about this shooting is the innocent victims. It isn't

their fault this guy was a nut case

edited to add that the victims include the family members of the dead and wounded.

[Hollow Shells]

47. Your OP is hilarious, but is the hilarity intentional?

Chaplain and psychiatrist, if a man like that is unstable, then our stereotypes of chaplains and psychiatrists are reinforced.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SidDithers]

51. I think the sad thing about the shooting...

is that innocent people were killed and injured.

Sid