Surrounded by soldiers, carrying just 2 handguns, he shoots over 40 people?

[Bonobo]

How did that happen?

He must have reloaded.

No one took him out when he reloaded?

On edit: Barbara Starr just said there was a semi-auto weapon as well. It makes more sense now.

[TwilightGardener]

1. I find that amazing, as well.

[tabatha]

2. One of the guns was semi-automatic.

And soldiers on base do not carry weapons.

[Bonobo]

4. Yeah, I just heard that.

It makes sense but a handgun did not.

Armed or not, when a person reloads, they are obviously totally vulnerable.

[X_Digger]

19. Not if one reloads one-handed while pointing the other gun.

Perfectly plausible.

[Bonobo]

20. Reload one handed while pointing and firing the other gun?

Is that possible?

[X_Digger]

22. Yup..

Hit the mag release with your finger while pointing the other gun. Holster the first weapon long enough to grab a mag and pop it in the bottom. Lift the weapon from the holster, rack the slide by catching it on your belt or pants, or if it locks back on the last round, just hit the slide release.

[benEzra]

38. Vulnerable for maybe a second, and only if the person shoots the gun empty first.

You press a button to drop the empty and stick the fresh magazine in. If you don't shoot it empty before reloading, the gun is operable the whole time, generally speaking.


Here's someone shooting an ordinary Beretta pistol in an IPSC* match (when he lowers the gun and tilts it sideways for a second, he's reloading it):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEBdXZKiLz0


And somebody who's really good can reload in a fraction of a second, though this guy below is about as typical as Usain Bolt in the 100 meter...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls4Uq1aCiTA


*International Practical Shooting Confederation, governing body of IPSC competitions worldwide (Europe, Canada, Asia, USA, South America, etc.). The U.S. branch is USPSA.

[LLStarks]

5. That's an absurd policy. nt

[MadMaddie]

25. Not really if you think about it

You have soldiars that are coming back from war who are stressed to the max, jumping at anything, they have PTSD, they are trying to fit back into normalcy....add weapons on top of that and you have this incident times XXX. This guy was stressed about going he had never been deployed but he heard the horror stories.

If you have weapons all over base, then you have weapons on the blackmarket and unaccounted for. These things have happened and they would happen more if the policy were changed.

[cynatnite]

37. I'm waiting for the wingnuts to start screaming to change it. n/t

[Bitwit1234]

31. That is correct

they explained that earlier. They said the soldiers were sitting ducks they had no defense. And the reason he didn't take in larger guns, was because hand guns were easier to conceal.

Just think how fast you can fire those guns. In probably less than a minute til they brought him down he had emptied all his clips. That would take out a lot of people if he was spraying. He didn't even have to aim.

[benEzra]

36. Most handguns (and practically all pistols) are semiautomatic.

[Warpy]

3. Maybe that's why he went to the processing center

Fresh inductees on their way to basic training wouldn't have the ingrained reactions to take him out during reloading.

[JonLP24]

7. Ft Hood is not a basic training base

They would've completed BT before going to Fort Hood.

[Warpy]

13. One report said they processed inductees from the region

before shipping them out to basic training.

[nonconformist]

14. They were shipping out to Iraq, not basic.

[JonLP24]

17. They could be processing soldiers coming from AIT or leaving the Army

You go to MEPS(I went to the one in Phoenix) take the ASVAB, physicals, etc. You go the Airport(Sky Harbor in my case) fly to the nearest Airport to the Basic Training Base(St Louis in my case) and get picked up and go to the base(Ft Leonard Wood in my case). You process there for a week before you get sent to your unit.

[TwilightGardener]

9. Processing center on bases usually handle deployments, incoming personnel, that sort of thing.

[JonLP24]

6. Soldiers don't walk around base carrying weapons

Nearly all of them even personally owned ones are in arms rooms. Of course MPs and civilian police do.

[Imajika]

8. Yeah, seriously

Something seems kinda odd about this. One guy with 2 pistols walks into an area crowded with soldiers, opens fire, and shoots over 40 people? 12 dead, 31 injured? If he even missed a couple times he would have had to pull the trigger approximately 50 times. Seems kinda odd that no one tackled him or something while he was reloading.

Dunno, seems a bit strange to me.

[Nikki Stone1]

10. The shooter was in ROTC at VA Tech and was well trained on firearms

The place he chose to shoot is actually a 3-building complex, and he could go from one building into another very quickly and easily. That seems to be what happened.

[Fleshdancer]

11. Surrounded by soldiers in a place they probably feel the most safe

They were also trapped in a confined space...caught off guard. Can you imagine being a soldier on a base located on American soil and in a room with a large number of your peers where suddenly an officer is shooting at you? Even with years of training, I would completely understand if it took a few seconds to get over the shock of experiencing this insanity. It makes no sense.

[Imajika]

15. Good points..

"Can you imagine being a soldier on a base located on American soil and in a room with a large number of your peers where suddenly an officer is shooting at you?"

I hadn't even thought about that. Caught off guard and probably stunned to see an officer doing this. Might explain some delayed reaction by the soldiers in the area.

[spanone]

12. soldiers do not carry weapons on base, they are supposedly safe at home with the mp's protecting

[nonconformist]

16. Soldiers or not, they're still human and they get scared and stunned.

I wouldn't doubt some of them were as young as 18. They probably were taken by such surprise and in such shock that they couldn't react in any way but to run and hide, which is how most people would react to such a scene.

[chrisa]

18. On your last comment.

Pistols can be semi-auto. Semi-auto doesn't mean a rifle or weapon more powerful than normal.

Also, just because there's soldiers around doesn't mean they're armed. The ensuing panic would also give an advantage to the shooter and protect him. It's impossible conditions for return fire.

[X_Digger]

21. And panic / choke-points where people jam up.. n/t

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[deaniac21]

24. He was the only one that was armed.

[Common Sense Party]

26. Some people automatically assumed that all soldiers are always armed

I've never been in the military, but the handful of times I've been on military bases, other than the guards at the front gate, I don't recall seeeing anyone carrying a weapon.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JonLP24]

28. "even in their own barracks."

That is the worst place to store your weapon if you do own one. I can accept having them in their own on base home but the barracks are so wide open where a bunch of people are in one spot. Also the temptation to drink alcohol is great as well.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JonLP24]

30. I've known that for nearly an hour now

Was this post for me? :shrug:

I was giving a good reason why soldiers living in barracks don't have their own weapons and not talking about the case in question.

[cherokeeprogressive]

32. The Beretta M9 carries a 15 cartridge magazine. 15 in the clip and one in the chamber means

that the person carrying the handgun has sixteen rounds at his disposal before reloading. X2 handguns, that means he has 32. Add 2 extra clips, which take all of about 5 seconds to first eject the old and insert the new means he has 62 rounds to expend.

Now, take someone who is marginally proficient with a handgun. Shooting at "center mass" means shooting at someone above the waist, and between the shoulders. Fairly large target. A 9mm round, hitting someone near center mass from the waist up is nearly always fatal if there isn't IMMEDIATE medical attention available.

Not only within the realm of possibility, but entirely understandable.

[Bonobo]

33. Scary shit....

Thanks for the explanation.

[Vickers]

34. "He must have reloaded."

Replacing the magazine in a modern automatic pistol takes around a second (if you're slow).

[benEzra]

35. Surrounded by UNARMED soldiers.

He was finally stopped by an armed civilian police officer.

BTW, practically all pistols are "semi-auto weapons." That's like calling a car a "gasoline powered vehicle"; it's almost a tautology. Semiautomatic doesn't mean automatic, it means one shot at a time (i.e., ordinary civilian firearm).