Speaker Pelosi: THIS WON'T GO UNANSWERED - Please read & kick & recommend

[debbierlus]

I am so angry now I could spit. My hands are shaking as I write this....

I called Speaker Pelosi's office in California about 15 minutes ago. I politely started to state my concerns about the removal of single payer debate on the House floor (the Weiner amendment) & the removal of the Kucinich amendment (allowing states to implement single payer). With just one word: hold, I was put through by the office staff to the answering machine. I left a message on the machine and then called the Washington office.

I got right through and the second I told them what the call was about, I was directed to an answering machine. I wasn't even told to hold.

So, I called right back and I said, I am calling to ask a question. Has Nancy Pelosi directed her staff to not speak directly with those who call about the Weiner Amendment or the Kucinich Amendment?

He told me the office has been INUNDATED with calls about these amendments for the past two weeks and do to the volume of these calls, they just put them through to voicemail.

So, I said that people who were calling to express their very concerns about these issues were being relegated to an answering machine?

Pelosi's official staff policy is for her staff not to speak with those who call about Single Payer. I wonder if they even listen to the messages or they just go to automatic delete!

Anyway, at this point, I told him that Pelosi is ignoring these callers and the issue of Single Payer and real health care reform at her own peril. I told him the democratic/liberal base that the party has taken for granted for so long is on the verge of breaking and that the health care reform will be the final straw. I told him that the democratic leadership so poorly represents the views & beliefs of their liberal base (the majority of people) that they are giving us no reason to support the democrats. I told him that the smartest, most creative part of the democratic party (the progressive base) is seriously on the verge of third party and if this is the way we are treated when we call about a life or death issue, they have made the decision for us. I then told him that I will be making a video and letting the blogosphere know that the Speaker is LITERALLLy ignoring mass numbers of calls about these two amendments.

I will not let this type of disdain to the people go unanswered.

This is where we are at people. They don't give a rat's ass what policies we want - they don't even want to hear our voices. Even though the MAJORITY of Americans want a REAL public option (one where the actaul public can enroll), we will not get it; just a ironic joke piece of legislation that creates a phony public option that is more expensive then private insurance and only 2% would be eligible for anyway. They get FLOODED...INUNDATED with calls for the Weiner amendment and the Kucinich amendment...

They won't take your call. Even when the lines aren't busy and their staff is free to taalk. I got through to both offices on the very first ring, all three times I called.

So, KNOW that the people are speaking. Know that the calls are being made and that the lines are ringing off the hook for real health care reform.

They just won't pick up the phone.

[derby378]

1. Maybe it's time to consider a new Speaker of the House

Who would be a good, strong candidate to replace Pelosi in the driver's seat?

[Myrina]

4. uhmmmm ... Grayson ?

:evilgrin:

[robinlynne]

14. Be still my heart.

[Plucketeer]

40. Amen to THAT!

But we'd have to lock up the most of the Dumbocrats to be able to hand Alan the gavel! :grr:

[jgraz]

45. Grayson doesn't have enough seniority. I say Barbara Lee

With Majority Leader Kucinich.

Grayson would make a good Whip.

[Cleita]

51. Oops!

[Cleita]

52. Double oops!

[Joe Chi Minh]

137. Seniority is, as seniority does. He's got the heart of an old warrior.

[jgraz]

165. Yes, but he's nowhere near as skilled at herding cats as someone like Lee would be.

I love Grayson, but as Speaker there's no way he could throw the kinds of bombs he's been throwing. I'd rather see him challenge Shill Nelson for the Senate in a few years.

[Joe Chi Minh]

195. In the current climate, I expect you're on the mark.

[davidwparker]

221. from your keyboard to God's monitor

[demwing]

155. That's funny. Grayson supports the house bill.

Why would you support him and not Speaker Pelosi?

[grahamhgreen]

159. Because he will get be on our side, not big crapsurance.

[demwing]

161. Do you think the House bill is crap?

And that Pelosi is in the pocket of the Insurance companies?

[TexasProgresive]

50. How do you think that you could force that when you can't

get what you want other wise? Hmm, maybe you could vote for Cindy (that is if you're in Pelosi's district).

[bjobotts]

111. It's becoming apparent to the entire nation that our democracy is turing into a corporatocracy

[bjobotts]

112. with its army of lobbyists pulling the strings on the puppets we call legislators

[bjobotts]

113. The demands of the public majority are being ignored,They tell us what we want is "not allowed"

[bjobotts]

115. Our best response is to make them look foolish by public demostrations and pressure because

[bjobotts]

116. because Dollars are not votes.We won't reelect Bush but we will get better dems.

[bjobotts]

117. This Rahm Emanuel Presidency is not working.The party will defeat itself

Apathy is his guiding principle and it will only cause us to forget the Bush years and wonder what is better than nothing.

[Hardrada]

130. Good term for it!

[valerief]

133. I thought it was a Goldman Sachs presidency. Same thing, I guess. nt

[Laurab]

182. I'm not the DU police or anything, but if you could maybe...

put your thoughts into a single post, or maybe two, instead of always posting one liners as separate posts, I might not skip over all your posts whenever I see them.

[historian]

126. amen to that

Why dont imitate Gandhi? Lets have a nation wide strike for a few days. No spending, no buying, no work. This will affect pocket books and then my friends we might just might get some attention

[tblue]

166. Because Anericans are at heart a fearful bunch, complacent with their internet, remote control and

oh goody, the mall is open till 10:00! We don't have the guts of the people of Iran, Ukraine, the Amazon.

[Le Taz Hot]

103. Nancy's not going anywhere.

She's Rahm's perfect little puppet. She's in there to do his bidding. Nothing more.

[defendandprotect]

206. Until we oust the DLC from the party -- and Rahm with it -- we'll get no where . . .

Obama showed his allegiance to DLC when he eloped with Rahm into White House!

[man4allcats]

107. It's been time for that

for a long time. Pelosi has not changed in the slightest since she declared impeachment to be off the table. Anyone who believes otherwise is living in a fantasy world.

[onenote]

143. no one is going to unseat Pelosi

Dream on, but there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of it happening.

[Beer Snob-50]

144. and while we are at it, a new leader in the senate as well!!

both of them have been useless.

[tblue]

171. My anti-bacterial floor mop would make a better Senate Majority Leader!

[Maraya1969]

151. How do you make them get a new speaker? What's the process?

[ChiciB1]

213. A NEW Speaker Isn't Going To Do It... We Need NEW People & THAT'S

even MORE difficult!

[change_notfinetuning]

222. Ain't gonna happen, but Jan Schakowsky is my choice. n/t

[pnwmom]

2. The problem is that the base may be very liberal -- but the Democratic majority includes

moderates and centrists and even Independents.

The same is true of the Rethugs. Their base is very right wing -- but to win a majority they have to get support from centrists and moderates and even Independents.

The real majority is in the middle, not with the base of either party.

[jgraz]

8. The problem is that the Democratic Congress includes cowards

If they don't want Single Payer, then stand up and vote on it. Let them go on the record as voting against the core interests of their constituency. All this back-room nonsense does is allow the stealth corporatists to keep hiding.

[Angry Dragon]

22. Damn .... you were reading my mind

[pnwmom]

25. I agree that they should have allowed an up or down vote on single payer.

[Horse with no Name]

42. +1. n/t

[robinlynne]

17. really? Or might the problem be simply corruption? money from the corporations

which they use to maintain their power.

[redqueen]

19. All the Kucinich Amendment does is allow states the *option* of starting a SP system.

Stripping the amendment is absolute bullshit... and I've left many messages on Ms. Pelosi's voice mail saying so... for all the good it does. x(

[pnwmom]

27. I don't know what the voting numbers are with and without that amendment.

Pelosi might not have had enough votes for passage with the amendment in there.

[redqueen]

29. It's still total bullshit... moderates don't want states even having the *choice*?

That's flatly indefensible.

Absolute bullshit.

[pnwmom]

33. Have you surveyed the members of the House on this, as Pelosi has?

[redqueen]

35. You're not getting my point. What moderates, in which states

would vote out a candidate because they simply allowed an amendment which allowed states the choice of starting their own single-payer systems?

That's a bullshit excuse... no moderate is going to face a tougher election because they allowed states this choice. None of them.

[pnwmom]

49. I don't know. And I don't have a way of asking them. Pelosi does. n/t

[redqueen]

153. There's no reason to ask them. This is a bullshit, weak-assed excuse.

It's sad to see the crap getting any kind of credence at all here.

[sabrina 1]

82. She's the leader, it's her job to get the votes.

And if you're saying that the Party of the People doesn't want what the people want, then the people need a new party.

[Sebastian Doyle]

24. Bullshit

I am so fucking tired of this DLC "centrist" excuse for everything. Over 75% of this fucking country wants a public option, according to any poll NOT funded by the goddamn insurance criminals.

[pnwmom]

30. The issue I was addressing was single payer, not a public option.

Personally, I support either -- but I've not seen polling that said the majority of Americans support single payer. Have you?

[HughMoran]

72. crickets

Unfortunately, the support for single-payer gets all too often conflated with the public option. Single payer eliminates all the insurance companies - something that's just not going to be considered.

[Pab Sungenis]

145. Single payer does NOT eliminate the insurance companies.

Look at Britain. They still have private insurance as a supplemental for people who want elective care. Even here in the US one of the biggest insurance businesses is "Medicare supplemental" because Medicare simply doesn't cover everything. If we pushed through Medicare Part E, then the insurance companies could still offer supplemental policies.

[daleanime]

109. And even their polls....

full of crap and spin show 58-59% for PO

[JDPriestly]

60. The base of the party may be liberal, but the desire for a really robust

public option, ( by robust I mean one that anyone can choose) is not a particularly liberal idea. It is popular among many conservatives and liberals alike. We "liberals" are willing to compromise if our point of view is held only by a small minority of people. But the truth is that a very broad spectrum of Americans are sick of the health insurance industry's shenanigans, and we want either single payer or a real public option.

I, like most Americans, have family members who really need a strong public option. How about a four-year old (youngest of three) whose parents are low-income and whose medication costs $80.00 a month? The father's employer provides insurance for the father, but the rest of the family can only afford catastrophic insurance. Must a child born with a serious medical problem doom the entire family to poverty? That is what the lack of a real public option will mean. Why? Because a strong public option is the only way to lower the cost of health care insurance enough to help middle class American families.

Why won't Pelosi and Reid even allow the CBO to determine the relative cost of single payer? Because they know it would be much, much cheaper than their versions of health care reform.

[sabrina 1]

81. You don't have to be a liberal to want a decent

health care system. A majority of Americans want it and that includes even Republicans. My sister is a Republican and she wants it.

I consider myself a moderate, and even Conservative on some issues, and I want it. This attempt to paint all those as the fringe of the party, just isn't going to work.

The real majority already said in ever poll that they want Health Care reform, not Insurance Reform that hands over more money to an already dysfunctional system.

The problem is we have one party and they work for the Corporations. If there's anyone left in the country who doesn't see that by now, it's because they don't want to.

I bet they tried to make it look like only the extreme, wacko leftwing of the party wanted Civil Rights also. I get so sick of this attempt to divide people. This issue is important to everyone and the OP is absolutely right. If Dems continue to ignore the people and cater to Corporations, there is no more reason to be a Democrat.

[Sinti]

123. The majority want real reform - that's what I hear

Nonetheless, leadership requires that you have a vision, and educate people on what that vision is and how we're going to get there. If you don't have this, no one in their right mind should follow - therefore you are not a leader. Obviously you're not going anywhere anyway.

I think it's normal to expect more from your elected representatives than to just follow the directives of the middle point of view. How do you get progress without vision? We could straddle the middle and go nowhere forever - and that gets back to leadership.

If your ideas are not good enough to be expressed in such a way as to be an obvious good for everyone, then maybe you need new ideas. I don't hear the leadership actually trying to educate their constituencies on the different options they have before them. The information they get is nothing more than press releases from corporations, read by news models who work for other corporations.

Their constituencies don't even know what the various options may be. The majority of the information that goes to both the citizen and the representative comes from the industry in question - on any given issue.

It seems to be this is just another sign that our politics is kind of broken. :shrug:

[fasttense]

132. I don't buy it. The majority is no longer in the center.

It use to be, a couple of years ago. It has shifted to the left.

Look at how the GOP is running. They are pushing a (fake) populist agenda (funded by corporations). There is a huge logic disconnect with what the GOP is doing. They are not real populist so only the right wing nut jobs are attracted to their lies and spin.

There is a huge anti-corporatist, pro-populism rage in America. The GOP sees it and is trying to twist it to suit their purpose. But at the heart of Populism is Liberalism. Populism belongs in the Democratic party. It's a natural fit and America knows it.

This populist rage started at the end of bushes term, at about the time Obama finished up what the bush started by bailing out the uber wealthy bank CEOs and stock holders with our tax dollars.

I live in the heart of RepubliCON land. I can get every conservative I meet to agree with me merely by pointing out how Wall Street was saved while the average guy has to pay the bill. They don't agree with who caused all the problems, but they definitely agree that the government needs to stop giving welfare to the uber rich and do something for the little guy.

When it comes to helping the average worker (and that's what this health care reform is suppose to do) there is no center position anymore. It has moved to the left, yet our Democratic leaders seem blissfully unaware.

Things move quickly in politics and sometimes change overnight. We are now seeing a real left majority in America. Will the Democratic party use it or lose it?

[freebrew]

147. Without the progressives?

It may not be a majority anymore. I wonder why they are refu$ing to see that($$$$$$)?

[peacetalksforall]

156. You say centrists, moderates, and Independents. I can see why a moderate

is conservative on fiscal policies. I just don't know enough about Independents. I have now decided that centrists and moderates are a part of the corporate dream - I will have none of it. Corporations, the ones who lie, scheme, and steal from us ARE OUR ENEMY. The ones who want to own all of their piece of the earth resources - all who want to control us and are not that far away from depopulation, repopulation with serfs - worldwide, including in this great supremacist country.

They want our labor for near free - with enough wages to buy entertainment, toys, and losts of bad and modified food.

They want no protests. They want total submissiveness and obedience.

They are hammering us down.

Pelosi is a facilitator. One of MANY.

The worst phrases and words in this country. Bought and paid for. Imperialism. Torture. Wall Street. Spying on the citizens. Immunities. DLC.

[Hannah Bell]

187. the majority of Democrats want single payer.

[AndyA]

3. Democrats in Congress: You have to give us a REASON TO VOTE FOR YOU.

Period.

Sending us to an answering machine isn't going to do it.

Want more losses like yesterday? Keep it up, idiots. We've HAD ENOUGH! We will replace you.

[debbierlus]

9. Bullshit. Up to 80% of support for a public option

This is to the person who stated the majority are not liberal. Not, the poster directly above me. Sorry about the confusion. I am still in my emotional mad mood and posted in the wrong place.

(And, I am sure THEY want the choice, not just 2%)....

Majority for the legalization of pot

Majority for sane environmental policies

Majority against corporate bailouts

Majority want good pay and workplace protection

That, the HUGE lie they so want you to believe.

Don't repeat their lies.

[pnwmom]

32. Yes, but you were talking about single-payer, not a public option.

What percentage of Americans want single-payer? I don't know. Do you?

[dflprincess]

55. I did a very quick search and found:

and from what I found it looks like 49% to 60%

http://www.healthcare-now.org/another-poll-shows-majority-support-for-single-payer/

A New York Times/CBS News poll released last week shows, yet again, that the majority of Americans support national health insurance.

The poll, which compares answers to the same questions from 30 years ago, finds that, “59% say the government should provide national health insurance, including 49% who say such insurance should cover all medical problems.”

Only 32% think that insurance should be left to private enterprise

Also this little clip from an article looking at the media's coverage of the health care debate

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3733

Opinion polling (e.g., ABC News/Washington Post, 10/9-19/03) suggests that the public would actually favor single-payer.

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/resources/PollMemo.pdf

"When given a choice of the current system or one "like Medicare that is run by the government and financed by taxpayers," voters overwhelmingly chose the latter. A solid majority (59%) say they would prefer a national health insurance program that covers everyone, over the current system of private insurance offered to most through their emloyer."

This link gives short descriptions of several polls asking about single payer going back to 2003 and has links to more detailed info about the polls. http://www.wpasinglepayer.org/PollResults.html

I have found with friends and coworkers who haven't paying as much attention as we do here, that many of them thought "public option" meant single payer and most are not happy to hear it does not. The poll numbers showing 70% of the population supporting "a public option" may include many who think it is single payer - and it certainly includes a lot people who know that's not what the public "option" is and who would prefer Medicare for All.

[pnwmom]

61. Interesting. Thanks! n/t

[90-percent]

5. It's obvious

America is no longer a Democratic Republic. Our elected officials no longer represent the will of the people and no longer act in the best interests of the people they represent.

the correct term for what we have no is an oligopoly, right? Anyway, it sure ain't what they sold us in school about the principals this country is founded on and what we are supposed to stand for and all the reasons all our citizenry fought in all those wars.

Now it's just a government for corporations. The merger of corporation and state is fascism, correct?

America is now a fascist state.

Gosh darn it all.

-90% jimmy

[Angry Dragon]

26. I wish there was some way

one could charge them with treason. Threatening the welfare of this nation. Not following the constitution. There has to be a way to take back control of this country. By this I do not mean just democrats, but include the republicans that really want their country back also. For years it has not mattered which party was in office the American people got the pointed end of the stick.

[guyton]

90. off the table

Pelosi has been plainly treasonous ever since she had her 'impeachment is off the table' moment.

Talk about ignoring the constitution and giving a green light to any abuse of power by the exec branch!

Congress == a wholly owned subsidiary of big business.

[Hannah Bell]

dupe

[Hannah Bell]

188. start a campaign locally, among dems who share your feelings.

it might at least generate some bad publicity.

i'd bet there are a lot of disillusioned local dems regretting busting their asses for this outcome.

[noiretextatique]

223. so true,...i was talking to a friend of mine the other day who worked for the obama campaign

and she was saying how disappointed she is. still hopeful, but very disappointed.

[Golden Raisin]

129. And, sadly, I no longer think

writing, emailing, calling Congresspeople or signing petitions, or any of those quaint, old-fashioned components of what used to be democracy do a damn thing. The electorate basically only exists to elect and re-elect the Congresspeople. Once in the electorate is scorned.

[ChiciB1]

208. Golden Raisin... I Came To THAT Conclusion Quite Some Time Ago..

I pictured them up there LAUGHING at all of us because "we just will NEVER know" IF OR WHAT they decided to listen to. We can call, write, petition, stand on our heads and spit wooden nickles and STILL YOU JUST DON'T know if your voice has been heard!

AND, even IF they hear the voices... THEY don't give a tinker's DAMN!

I know it's like a broken record for me, but I say it all the time to my husband and those around me... NOTHING is going to get their attention until there's a HUGE uprising! People say it doesn't work anymore, but I say... NOTHING IS working NOW so what's to lose??

They sit up there high and mighty and almost KNOW we are almost helpless to replace them... they HAVE the money, they HAVE the people who keep GIVING them money (the big guys) and they HAVE people who know more people who can GIVE THEM MORE MONEY!!

They SAY they will listen to us, they SAY call us with your concerns, they SAY they work FOR THE PEOPLE, but even when some of their own TRY to get WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT... THEY screw them over!

I wonder how long it's going to be before they "skewer" Grayson??

Trying to "kick them out" is MUCH HARDER than most here think!! I've been thinking for quite some time that I should become an Independent, but would have to give up my right to vote in a primary here. Now, that doesn't seem so important these days! I'm SURE I'm to the LEFT of what is being called Progressive, and I KNOW I'm to the left of Obama... so defection seems to be the only sane answer for the most part. At least I won't have to continually be put down and ignored by Democrats who I THOUGHT were standing up for us!!

My house is so silent these days because I can't STAND to listen to MSM spewing crap, and even those on "OUR" SIDE aren't having much affect either! Olberman, Maddow, etc. They ARE trying, but it AIN'T working! Even the guests they have on who truly mean well, actually know what will go down in the end!

I LOVE Howard Dean, but even he says Health Care MUST be passed and it seems it doesn't matter WHAT'S in it... JUST GET SOMETHING PASSED!

JMHO!

[demwing]

163. Thats just wrong. We are a democratic republic, when we vote.

Why did we win VA in 2008? - Voter turnout
Why did we lose that state in 2009? - Voter turnout.
What is the REAL grease on the gears of democracy? - Voter turnout.
Who REALLY owns this government? We do.

If we were not a democratic republic, do you think that Obama would be in office? I don't. We have to stop blaming the world win we lose. If shitty healthcare reform gets passed, it's OUR fault for not getting out this year and sweeping the elections.

It's not Obama's fault for not motivating his base.
It's not Pelosi's fault. It's not Reid's fault. It's not Rahm's fault. It's not Rush's fault. It's not Palin's fault.

The voters are responsible for holding their elected officials accountable. If Politicians don't feel threatened by voter turnout is it because they are confident that they are doing a wonderful job and the voters are happy with the work being done, or because they know the voters are lazy and don't really give a damn as long as no one cuts the fast food, TV and Internet access?

Cheeseburgers and porn. Those are the real weapons of Corporate America. And those weapons only have power because we give it to them. Wait, we BUY it from them.

The system isn't broken - the voters just don't care. But since we are the voters, who should we blame?

[tblue]

169. But we did win in 2008, got majorities and the White House, and they still don't deliver.

How is that our fault? They keep moving the bar. 51 senators is not enough. Now 60 is not enough. They keep moving the bar.

They don't want single payer. They don't really want a public option either. How plain do they have to make it?

[demwing]

174. I don't care what THEY want. What we have to make plain is what WE want

now if we don't do that, whose fault is it?

The founders didn't care what King George wanted. They made it clear what they wanted, and forced England to comply. We are in a much better position than the colonists, but we can't do anything to change our fate?

How has ANY entrenched power responded to change? How has any opressed people wrested that change regardless?

I'm not advocating violent overthrow -nope. We live in a Democratic Republic, and we can vote the fuckers out, or at the very least scare the crap out of them.

Despite the wins and losses this election year, did we scare the crap out of any politicians?

If voter turnout is only at 50% of last year, are we doing OUR job?

[demwing]

176. We put them in power, but the right jab isn't enough

we have to have the left hook in place, and let them know that we can take their asses right back out again.

[tblue]

167. I honestly think it always was, just once in a while the failures of the oligopoly required

FDR/intervention to keep the corporate state machine running. I do think FDR and some politicians had/have good intentions, but this country was never about equality for the masses or genuinel democracy. It's an ideal for us and it gives us hope, but it's just a nice-sounding slogan for the entitled who rule over us.

[demwing]

175. Well if you feel that way, why are you here?

That's a pretty hopeless situation you've described. Should we just give up and be ruled?

[SammyWinstonJack]

6. K&R

:yourock:

[ThomWV]

7. Send E-Mails. Send hundreds of E-Mails.

[debbierlus]

11. I called Kucinich's office and told on her! Maybe he can mention this when he goes on tv

I called his staff (so polite, so respectful, so empathetic - night and day with the Pelosi cowards)...

I told the staff that he ought to know Pelosi has made it her policy to NOT take calls about the Weiner & Kunicin, they say they have received so many, the staff just puts them through to voicemail. I wanted him to know that people are listening and calling to the point of inundation. And, I wanted to let him know that even when we call, they refuse to talk to us.

I thought if he was on tv, he might point this out to the American public.

[tblue]

170. Contact the DCCC. When you measure your support in $$$$ maybe they'll get the message.

[pundaint]

189. dear congress, please completely change everything you are...

These people are beyond repair, we need fresh new people. Replace congress in 2010.

[global1]

10. You Might Want To Call The White House Too......

here is the number: 1-202-456-1111. Every time I've called I gotten a live person and they listen and some ask follow-up questions. You should tell them of the treatment you are getting from Pelosi and push for the WH to influence her to reinstate debate on the single payer.

[debbierlus]

15. I will. I have had nothing but vacant silence and thank you for your call

Everytime I call...

I will call anyway.

I never have received a followup question. Ever. And, I call a LOT.

Maybe it is because my calls are pretty much statements, not questions.

[rudy23]

18. Why would the White House want debate on single-payer when they're against it?

I'd think the White House has Pelosi's back on this.

[debbierlus]

23. Doesn't matter. They might think twice about their suck ass legislation even if they get millions

of calls....

Of course, he has got her back. I know that very well.

I am calling to let him know that WE won't have their back, if they keep this SHIT up.

[rudy23]

28. Rock on. It's always worth a shot, IMO.

They're getting very arrogant about taking our support for granted.

[global1]

31. Exactly - Let The WH Know That If They Don't Support Us In The Form Of......

single payer or at least a very strong public option - we won't support them. I'm sorry. I hope the WH got the message last night. I think they were taking us for granted - still riding off the glow of last year. But they've got to see that we're smarter than they give us credit for - and if they don't listen to us people - the voters - then they might just be looking for a different job next election. We have the power and if they don't think we have it in us to vote them out - Yes We Can.

[zoff]

136. I made that call debbierlus ...

... that WE won't have their backs next election. It's the only currency they understand.

[demwing]

177. It doesn't matter what "they want.", they need to hear what "we want"

or they will keep giving us what "they want" and call it a good day.

[demwing]

179. It doesn't matter what "they want.", they need to hear what "we want"

or they will keep giving us what "they want" and call it a good day.

[robinlynne]

12. good for you!

[Jkid]

13. There's also one alternative. Visit her office yourself.

She will probably not listen to your voice messages. And if she refuses to answer or stonewalls you in anyway, you expose that to your local media and everyone you know.

If that day comes and Nancy refuses to consider a debate, her political carrier is finished of dereliction of public duty of her constituents.

[debbierlus]

20. Hmmmm.

[EFerrari]

66. No it's not. She refused to meet with her constituents

for the last years of the Bush presidency. There are ZERO consequences to her.

[Jkid]

84. What kind a represenative is she if she does not refuse to meet with her consituents?

Yet, proudly wants to meet with her lobbyists who will fund her campaign fund? She needs to resign, NOW.

[EFerrari]

85. Again, she would only have to resign if she was in any way accountable.

As far as I can tell, she isn't.

Btw, it doesn't please me in the least to notice this. It just seems to be a fact.

[Jkid]

91. So our only option...

...is for someone with the balls enough to challenge her seat in the next upcoming election.

Unbelievable.

THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS.

[EFerrari]

92. Imho, the way out is election finance reform and that won't happen any time soon.

I sincerely am sorry to be such a downer. But you can't challenge that kind of money without an equal amount of money.

A primary "challenge" is pie in the sky.

[DearAbby]

16. Fax her...

[debbierlus]

21. Do to my third phone call, she knows very well where I stand -

And, I have faxed and emailed.

I always try to call and speak personally with a live human being.

[inna]

34. KR

[G_j]

36. flash...if they have been INUNDATED with calls

that should be telling them what the people want..

:think:

[leftstreet]

37. They don't care what we want

They care what the ruling class and its lobbyists want

[inna]

38. Meanwhile... Via email, Mobilize for Health Care:

Via email, Mobilize for Health Care:

Dear Friend,
CALL PELOSI NOW! [phone] and [phone]
There are 8 people sitting in RIGHT NOW in Nancy Pelosi's Office in San Francisco!

They are not leaving until they get an answer to their demands! Their demands are that the Kucinich amendment MUST be in the health care bill that the House votes on, and that the House MUST vote on the Weiner amendment.

Pelosi PROMISED the American people that she would ensure BOTH of the above would happen, and she has betrayed us by renigging on those promises!

YOU can HELP! Call her office in SF at [phone] and Washington, DC [phone]; demand that she talk with the people sitting in. Demand that she keep her promises and put Kucinich Amendment in bill and allow Floor vote on the Weiner Amendment!

Burn up her phone lines people! This is NOT business as usual! This is FOR REAL - we can make a difference in the future of health care in this country!

Thanks,

The Mobilization Team

here's their website: http://mobilizeforhealthcare.org/

I even might do one of these sit-ins, btw... (I'm in San Francisco)

[Slit Skirt]

39. same thing happened to me about 1 wk ago

and then i got pissed sent emails to all i could think of...no kucinich amendment, no weiner vote...no STRONG PUBLIC OPTION...YOU WILL ALL PAY HEAVILY IN 2010 and 2012. I mean it too. i will work my ass off for an independent whoever....i am sick of this crap

[debbierlus]

101. Thanks for checking in. I was glad that I kept my head and asked the right question

I was glad to have asked the right question, and I was able to confirm my suspicions.

I forgot to report in the original post that I told him that I was a VERY active member of the blogosphere and I would be reporting to the people about this call - he got very nervous and asked if the call was being recorded. I told him no, and I was being honest.

I let him hear it for all the people who have been basically hung up on (being put through to voice mail), loud and very clear. I hope he passes along the message.

I would ask of all you to keep calling and demand to talk to a real human being before you proceed. I will make the video tomorrow. I will be posting it. We all need to be very loud and annoying, they need to start taking us seriously and they need to hear the anger (at this injustice) in our voices.

Enough is too much.

[lob1]

41. I guess that speaking to her constituents is off the table, too.

She took it on her own to take bush impeachment off the table. She didn't ask or care how we felt about that, either. I'm no Pelosi fan.

[Mithreal]

43. Same here.

[slipslidingaway]

44. Pelosi's DC office has been doing that for awhile, whenever I tried to inquire...

about the CBO score for single-payer.

They have been dragging their feet on an estimate for months now, if you do not give people the information then they cannot make an informed choice - and we have to protect the for profit companies as they play a valuable role in our system.

:puke:

[debbierlus]

105. Cowardly. Pathetic. Gross. We really need to do check-ins with each other on actions

So, these scum bag tactics are revealed early on.

[bertman]

46. I understand and share your anger, debbierlus, but really what did you expect??

They ignore us until they need money and votes, then the phone starts ringing and we start hearing about Republican obstructionism.

It's all BULLSHIT. They do what their corporate sponsors want. Pelosi is a RICH WOMAN. She isn't going to do anything to jeopardize her wealth or her corporate-sponsored funding.

Thank you for your efforts. I too am getting sick and tired of this.

Every day that this so-called healthcare reform gets pushed back is another day that people lose interest and say "WTF, they don't care what WE want."

REC.

[debbierlus]

104. If enough of us made calls like that - it would give them pause

They may actually believe there would be real consequences from the 'base'. They are so damn smug with there attitude 'where they gonna go?'. They know we won't vote Republican. And, many have believed that the best way to push change would be to do it through the democratic party. It has become crystal clear that this tactic is not working.

We can't keep beating our head against the wall...over and over and over...

It is time to fight. We have not yet begun.

[ProleNoMore]

47. As A Life Long Progressive - Hate To Say, We Told You So

Look forward to your YouTube video.

[humbled_opinion]

48. My Fears are slowly being realized.

Health Insurance reform is starting to look like a big ponzi scheme for the Insurance companies.

Problems in order of importance.

1. There is no Single Payer Medicare rate reimbursed plan.
2. Mandated Health Insurance (Unconstitutional to force me to get insurance)
3. Penalties for non-compliance to #1
4. Watered down Public Option which is going to still cost alot.
5. Employers are not being forced to pay 100 percent for health care.
6. Employers are allowed to opt out of covering employees by paying a small fine.
7. Employers are not being forced to increase pay for employees to help them offset the cost of mandated insurance, public or private option.

Look I know the costs of insurance are doubling and are unsustainable but I think if our leaders are not going to get us a system that will actually work for the middle class and working poor then screw it. Re-focus on lowering costs and supplementing income so the middle class and working poor can afford health care.

Our Leadership the Democratic leaders will be the ones that get hammered if a half assed attempt at reform gets passed. Its all in time. Obama needs to be up on the Hill every night for the next 2 weeks getting us a single payer medicare rate reimbursed plan where they can continue to take my medicare tax dollars and give me health insurance. This country put a man on the moon for christ sake don't tell me we can't do this.

[Cleita]

54. This is why they don't want to implement it until 2013.

I'm sure they are hoping they can quietly make it go away before then, when no one is looking.

[JDPriestly]

62. You won't be "forced" to get health insurance.

Your taxes will be increased unless you pay for the insurance and thereby become eligible for a tax credit for part of the cost. That is how they will get around the constitutional issue. They will use the tax and spend power.

[Cleita]

53. Time to phone, fax and email all Democratic members of the House.

When their office communications become jammed with angry voters, they will line up outside of Pelosi's office and ask :wtf: is going on.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

56. K&R

:kick:

[grytpype]

57. Purity trolls are the teabaggers of the left.

[glitch]

59. Nasty namecallers shutting down dissent are the teabaggers of the left. nt

[liberation]

65. Wow, projecting there much?

LOL

[EFerrari]

67. Your momma.

:)

[sabrina 1]

86. You identify yourself by the use of those

words 'purity troll'. Or 'concern troll' etc. The left, trying to compete with the right who had their own words to try to silence people. Why not use your own vocabulary instead of the propaganda speech of political operatives? And if you disagree with the OP, present your reasons why.

If there's one thing people grew sick and tired of a long time ago, it was this 'special language' developed by the right, then imitated by the left, to end conversation and attempt to marginalize those who don't get on board with the party line.

Two of the most meaningless and ridiculous words that get thrown around the left political boards. I think it's time to make a full list of these words together with a history of where they came from. I used to wonder why rightwingnuts all sounded the same, repeated the same words and phrases. And the sad fact is that there are people who adapt these words and phrases thinking they have some meaning, or give them some kind of power. When all they do is make people wonder if the user is just a follower, or can think and speak for themselves.

[chill_wind]

118. At DU, strong advocates for meaningful health care reform are now "Purity Trolls."

Got cha.

What an amazing place this DEMOCRATIC "underground" has become...

[BlancheSplanchnik]

154. facile cynicism is the hobgoblin of little minds. n/t

[YOY]

201. Got any substance to go with that statement?

or just a blanket insult using a easy-to-make yet poorly-thought-out comparison.

[upi402]

58. Sen. Maria Cantwell's phones were always off, Voicemail box full

So I wrote and called and emailed.

[classysassy]

63. The congresscritters

are pro money,got some.?,if so they'll listen and do as they always do,vote their purse strings.All of the beltway bs artist are into money.

[EFerrari]

64. Who is surprised by this in the least?

She managed to avoid all of us in her district who wanted to talk about impeachment and she went so far as to tell the press we were not her constituents.

Is there any doubt whatsoever whose side Nancy Pelosi is on? Not her district's side, that's for sure.

Nancy Pelosi doesn't need my money or any voter's money in her district to be re-elected and she knows it. Policy follows from there.

[slipslidingaway]

68. Maybe she does not need anyone's vote, there is no way we can match...

the corporate contributions.

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

70. After that whole round of showing up to meet with her spokesman

and her statements in the press about us, I stopped calling her. It's obvious that she doesn't care what we think, need or say.

ETA: This is what I wrote at the time, warts and all. And I post it not to get attention but so we can do a compare and contrast on it, where we were then, where we are now.

Nancy, I AM your neighbor
Submitted by davidswanson on Wed, 2007-10-17 22:18.

By Elizabeth Ferrari, www.sfimpeachnow.com

Pelosi’s district demands an end to the sacking of Iraq, impeachment.

"You can just imagine my neighbors' reaction to all this. If they were poor and they were sleeping on my sidewalk, they would be arrested for loitering. But because they have 'Impeach Bush' across their chest, it's the First Amendment. ... So I'm well aware of the unhappiness of the base." – Nancy Pelosi “has candid talk with reporters” 10-10-07

Nancy Pelosi needs an intervention. She is responding to her constituents in a manner that starkly resembles the behavior of an addict denying her family’s distress.

When, after being denied an audience with our elected representative, her constituents were forced to take their protest to her home, Nancy’s response was denial: “You aren’t my constituents.” But, we are, Nancy. We are. And denying that fact won’t move this discussion forward.

More recently, Pelosi makes an appeal to authority in response to popular voices in her district:”We are leaders, they are advocates” – an authoritarian response that may be aimed to quash dissent but which merely illustrates the growing disconnect between Pelosi and the electorate that sent her to Washington in the first place. I suppose that makes those of us who elected her and supported her a group of enablers.

The latest, the capper (I hope this is the capper because how much worse can this dysfunctional dialogue get without requiring court-ordered rehab) was her recent statement, wishing that she could have anti-war and pro-impeachment protesters arrested just like homeless people are arrested in San Francisco

San Francisco is a small town and that makes me Pelosi’s neighbor although I live in the Sunset District, not in Pacific Heights. In my immediate neighborhood, we keep track of our homeless neighbors. We look out for them, we don’t have them arrested to “clean up” our streets. My neighbor Keith is in a wheelchair. {He is also your constituent, Nancy.) My neighbor Charles does yard work for us because he’s clean now and because he wants to work. My neighbor Dave is having a hard time getting off drugs, but we don’t give up on him. Gavin Newsom’s window dressing that passes for a homelessness policy has never reached out to him a single bit. But here, my neighbors are looking out for Dave. He has bad days and good days. And I believe at the moment, he’s trying rehab again. We are so proud of him.

Why does it surprise me that the Speaker who is bent on continuing to fund the sacking of Iraq has no visible empathy for the homeless of her district? I must be an idiot.

There is a very simple way to save the people Pelosi manages to recognize as “neighbors” -- several of whom supported the vigils outside her home -- the inconvenience of those protests. And, that would be the town hall meeting which she has avoided for over a year now. If her neighbors are inconvenienced, the blame lies with Pelosi, not with her constituents who have the right to seek redress from their government and not with the voters that her willful myopia renames as “not my constituents”.

No outside agitator (Pelosi’s term, not mine) in their right mind would wade into this district at this moment. As it is, those of us who are here on the ground find Pelosi’s shunning a bitter lesson. Misplaced Trust 1A. So be it.

Nancy, we want you to end the sacking of Iraq. We want you to impeach the felons in the White House. And we will tend to our homeless neighbors as best we can without the help of Corporati like you and Gavin Newsom. Your massive disregard for your district will be redressed. Save yourself and the people you recognize as “neighbors” that shame and resign.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/27785

[slipslidingaway]

80. I remember that and you are correct in that we need to remember what ...

happened before, all too often we are lured by something we want to hear, let's call them crumb comments :) and forget how we were treated in the not too distant past.

Thank you

:hi:

[earcandle]

71. But her nephew dropped out of the governors race. I wonder why he really did that? Maybe she is

one of the 36 Americans under investigation in Italy for
illegal renditions?  Maybe she has her hands
dirty and can't vote for us.  Who knows?  They are all so
corrupt! 

[unkachuck]

69. K&R....hang in there....n/t

[Dirigo]

74. Don't expect to get through anymore than calling businesses, offices or your doctor

The Speaker of the House is a huge job. It's not like she has a boiler room of hundreds of telephone representatives or off-shoring telephone services to India as so many republicon business people do. Have you seen congressional offices? They're small, cramped, and they have limitations. The speaker is no exception. Even the teabagging birther douchebags in congress who complain about government can't do any better which is why they resort to "mob mentality". Lets give Speaker Pelosi a break here. She does a fantastic job and does the job better than any in recent memory whether Newt Gingrich or shortlived Bob Livingston or Denny Hastert. All of these bozos were worse than Philistines in office.

With every nutsack from the Reich calling to jam the phone lines and who are not even Speaker Pelosi's congressional district constituent I don't know what else the woman can do. Lets not expect personal attention from someone who is being pummeled and pitch forked daily by the rabid and rancid right. She has a House to run too.

[EFerrari]

76. Are you kidding? Maybe not. I'd be interested to hear from a single constituent

that has gotten a serious response in the last five years.

And please don't tell me she has a house to run. That's just insult to injury for her orphan constituents. If she can't take the heat there is an exit sign.

[rucky]

73. Time to hit the fax machines

[slipslidingaway]

75. The fix to keep SP off the table was in by late 2007 ...

Posted on January 2, 2008
Where are we on reform? Part 2 (Hacker)

Health Reform Lessons from the Past
Jacob Hacker, PhD
National Conference on the Un and Underinsured
December 12, 2007 (Day 3)

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/january/where_are_we_on_refo.php

"...Comment:
By Don McCanne, MD

The final Quote of the Day for 2007 discussed the disconnect between a new poll indicating strong support (65%) for “a universal health insurance program in which everyone is covered under a program like Medicare that is run by the government and financed by taxpayers,” and a rapidly growing movement within the progressive community to support a model based on allowing you to keep the insurance you have.

...Jacob Hacker has described very accurately the politics of health care reform. He has suggested an approach that, on surface, would appear to lead to affordable coverage for everyone, while passing the crucial test of political feasibility. His political message is very sound - in fact, so sound that the leading Democratic candidates have adopted his suggestions. He has stressed the importance of coalition building well in advance of the installation of a new government one year from now.

So what coalition activities are we seeing within the progressive community? Many respected, influential leaders state that it is time to set aside the policy debate and proceed with a political strategy that will achieve our reform goals. There is one major problem with this approach: most of the difficult policy issues have yet to be addressed. But several of these coalition leaders have told the policy community quite bluntly that the policy debate is over, and all of the activities now must be about unity. We are commanded to unify behind health care reform that promises that you can keep the insurance you have or have the option to buy into a public program.

That’s it. That’s the policy behind which we are to unify. For the sake of unity, we are not to talk about the inability of the private insurance industry to provide us with affordable health plans that are comprehensive enough to meet our health care needs. We are not to talk about a public insurance program that must provide a premium that is competitive with private plans insuring the healthy, when the public plan is weighted down with high-cost patients (adverse selection).

....Those who insist on unity behind political means while suppressing clarity about policy ends will not be successful in coalition building, and clearly that is not Jacob Hacker’s intent. Those of us who insist on clarity about policy ends will be there to be certain that efforts to compromise on means will be an honest, transparent, and fully informed process."


****Contrast that with Dr. McCanne's statement in early January 2007 when the Jacob Hacker plan was first revealed, when SP advocates thought they would have a seat at the table.

So sometime between January 2007 and the end of 2007 the fix was in ...someone decided it would be too dangerous to allow not for profit advocates a seat in the discussions.


Here is what Dr. McCanne of PNHP said in January 2007...

This is good link, it goes through a year of the public option as it was marketed to the campaigns ... and then they sold it to us.

page 10
http://www.ourfuture.org/files/documents/evolution-of-the-healthcare-debate.pdf

“Jacob Hacker’s proposal is a very welcome addition at a time that all options should be on the table. It is such a compelling model that it may shove all others off of the table - except single payer - then we can get down to a serious discussion about reform that really works.”

[slipslidingaway]

79. Presidential Candidate Health Advisors Roundtable - December 12, 2007

Transcripts, slides and videos...
http://www.kaisernetwork.org/health_cast/hcast_index.cfm?display=detail&hc=2283

Speakers for this session:

Opening Remarks

Peter Grant

Charles (Chip) Kahn, III, M.P.H.
President
Federation of American Hospitals


Ed Howard, J.D.
Executive Vice President
Alliance for Health Reform


Barbara Markham Smith
Policy Director for Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.)


Laurie Rubiner
Policy Advisor for Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) Campaign


Don Moran
Policy Advisor for Rudy Guilliani Campaign


Douglas Holtz-Eakin
Policy Advisor for John McCain Campaign


Peter Harbage
Policy Advisor for John Edwards Campaign


Gregg Bloche
Policy Advisor for Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) Campaign


Lanhee Chen
Domestic Policy Advisor for Mitt Romney Campaign


Slides

Why Not Universal National Health Insurance?


David Himmelstein, M.D.

Associate Professor of Medicine, Harvard Medical School

Co-founder, Physicians for a National Health Program




The Role of Medicare and Medicaid in National and State Health Reform


Diane Rowland, Sc.D.

Executive Vice-President, Kaiser Family Foundation

Executive Director, Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured


Slides


Part V: State and Local Health Reform


Full version:

Video
Transcript



Speakers for this session:


Opening Remarks


Alan Weil, J.D., M.P.P.
Executive Director and President
National Academy for State Health Policy




State and Local Health Reform Roundtable


Alan Weil, J.D., M.P.P.
Executive Director and President
National Academy for State Health Policy
Session Moderator


Richard Figueroa
Health Care Advisor
California Governor's Office


Jon Kingsdale, Ph.D.
Executive Director
Commonwealth Health Insurance Connector



Raymond Scheppach, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Governors Association



Health Reform Lessons from the Past


Jacob Hacker, PhD
Professor of Political Science and Resident Fellow, Institution for Social and Policy Studies
Yale University



Slides

...."

[bkkyosemite]

77. It happened to me too twice..............pissed me off.

[scentopine]

78. Pelosi has not been a good leader for reform or change. She

is not quite as bad a Traitor Joe, but not above whoring out the democratic party - trading corporate cash for policy making influence that works against the 95% of democrats who are in the less than $250K per year salary range. She throws a few left over bones for us to fight over, but then its back to prime rib with the CEO set.

And I will never ever ever forgive her for covering and kissing Bush's ass all those hellish years.

She is the de facto role model for the democratic party and one of our weakest leaders on matters requiring truth, moral strength, principals and leadership vision.

[southernyankeebelle]

83. I send an e-mail to her office. I never get a response. But I let them know. I know

they get it because they say thank you.

[drm604]

87. Usually when someone won't pick up the phone,

I go over to their place and knock on their door to make sure that they're alright. As long as I'm there I'll give them my message personally, since I couldn't give it on the phone.

[slipslidingaway]

88. IMPORTANT - House bill has an actuarial value of 70% ...

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/106xx/doc10691/hr3962SubsidiesRangelLtr.pdf

"...The enclosed table focuses on enrollees who purchase a “reference” plan (the premiums for which equal the average of the three lowest-cost “basic” plans, as defined in the bill), because federal subsidies would be tied to that average. Such a plan would have an actuarial value of 70 percent, which represents the average share of costs for covered benefits that would be paid by the plan.

Although premiums under H.R. 3962 would vary by geographic area to reflect differences in average spending for health care and would also vary by age, the table shows the approximate national average for that lower-cost reference plan — about $5,300 for single policies and about $15,000 for family policies in 2016. Enrollees could purchase a more expensive plan or more extensive coverage for an additional, unsubsidized premium — and CBO anticipates that many enrollees would do that, so the average premiums actually paid in the exchanges would be higher (although average cost-sharing amounts could be lower than those shown in the table)..."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6925546&mesg_id=6928010

According to the new CBO letter, no subsidies for more extensive coverage...

surely there will be plans with higher actuarial values, for those who can afford to pay for a higher level of protection against their portion of the bill.

The numbers in the health care calculator on the Kaiser site are for a plan with a 70% actuarial value, not sure if everyone realizes that fact.

And as far as I know people will still be subject to the occassional out-of-network charges, a whole other discussion.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6925546&mesg_id=6926354

"...The Health Affairs article by Jon Gabel and his colleagues shows that plans with an 80% actuarial value are not providing adequate financial protection to individuals with modest incomes who need health care. Having a plan with an 80% actuarial value can place you in the ranks of the underinsured.

Basic coverage under the proposals before Congress would provide an actuarial value of 65% or 70%. That means that the patients would be responsible for the remaining 30% or 35% of health care costs, although the proposals would limit the total amount for which the patients are responsible under the plans. Patients also would be responsible for out-of-network services and for services and products not covered by their plans.

If there is a cap on out-of-pocket spending, then why should the precise actuarial value make difference? Simply, the lower the actuarial value, the greater the likelihood that the patient will have to spend the full amount up to the cap. Thus more individuals will be negatively impacted. Also, the amount of the cap makes a very big difference. The proposed caps on out-of-pocket spending, when added to the patient’s share of the premium, create a financial hardship for most low and middle income individuals and families..."

[slipslidingaway]

99. Wait til the people find out many policies only pay 70% of expenses. n/t

[zoff]

89. Have you tried this approach ...

... Votes are the only thing that keeps them in office. Tell the staffer that progressives are getting tired of this nonsense and that the final bill would determine whether we GO OUT AND VOTE the next time around. We might as well not vote since the democratic majority is unwilling to listen to us and we might as well turn over power to the gop.

[defendandprotect]

95. No . . . did it help African-Americans not to have a vote -- or women?

Would it help Latinos if they stayed home --

Or maybe that would be a good idea for homosexuals?

Stay home and don't vote and get what you want?

:eyes:

[zoff]

135. The way this bill is going, do we, or they, have a vote now?

It's not about suffrage, it's about a carrot & stick that politicians understand.

[defendandprotect]

205. NOT VOTING is stupidity . . not a "carrot and stick" . . .

Yes, perhaps, suggesting you're going to vote third party --

but not NOT voting!

[zoff]

229. Not good enough of a threat.

They know third parties don't stand a chance just yet. Ceding back to the GOP, now that would be a nightmare.

[defendandprotect]

231. Individuals aren't a threat . . .

but a large block of liberals/progressives moving off together . . . maybe?

Plus we have to get IRV voting -- something Dems surely don't want to give on

cause they do understand the threat to them if Dems have somewhere to go!

Yes . . . anything GOP is a nightmare . . . but imagine the next elections????

Barring stealing of elections, of course!

[lumberjack_jeff]

93. I'm unclear what your expectations are.

The nice visit you have with the intern answering the phones counts for the same mark on the tally sheet as the flashing digit on the answering machine dedicated to your cause.

The purpose of our calls is the mark on the tally sheet.

[defendandprotect]

94. Thank you -- and I've been calling and moved on to answering machines, as well --

Anyway, at this point, I told him that Pelosi is ignoring these callers and the issue of Single Payer and real health care reform at her own peril. I told him the democratic/liberal base that the party has taken for granted for so long is on the verge of breaking and that the health care reform will be the final straw. I told him that the democratic leadership so poorly represents the views & beliefs of their liberal base (the majority of people) that they are giving us no reason to support the democrats. I told him that the smartest, most creative part of the democratic party (the progressive base) is seriously on the verge of third party and if this is the way we are treated when we call about a life or death issue, they have made the decision for us. I then told him that I will be making a video and letting the blogosphere know that the Speaker is LITERALLLy ignoring mass numbers of calls about these two amendments.

THIS IS what needs to be done -- but whatever the liberal base does, we have to move TOGETHER....


:)

[debbierlus]

97. Unfortunately, I didn't have the time to make the video tonight, but it is coming tomorrow.

And, I so told on her to Kucinich.

[slipslidingaway]

100. My calls, emails today included ...

the WH, Pelosi, Hoyer, Miller, Rangel, Reid, Harkin, Baucus and my Reps.

They are still working on the Senate bill, they can add the Sanders state SP amendment that was defeated in committee...long shot I know.

[slipslidingaway]

98. Last straw...that was in my email today to the WH :) ...had to wait ten...

minutes on the WH comment line this a.m.

[defendandprotect]

120. How did you do with the person who took your comment . . .

used to be they were pretty savvy . . . now I've had to explain a lot to them

that they still don't seem to "get" . . . ???



PS: Don't mean W's people -- !!!

[slipslidingaway]

122. Today was different, seemed as if she just wanted the call to end...

in the past you could tell they were listening and taking notes. But that was not the impression I received today.

[defendandprotect]

190. Clinton had a good sysem . . . sort of a poll while you waited on issues/policies . ..

then a LIVE person to make comments to -- and they knew what was going on.

[slipslidingaway]

192. Sounds better, this whole thing has been such a scam... n/t

[defendandprotect]

96. k i c k

[bvar22]

102. In 2006...

In 2006, Nancy Pelosi parlayed her Congressional seat into a seat at the Rich Mans Table.
She has NEVER looked back.

[zalinda]

106. Emails can be deleted quite easily

phone messages can also be deleted quite easily. The only thing that will create the kind of response that you want are faxes. With a fax, it has to be printed out. Reams of paper cannot be deleted easily.

zalinda

[defendandprotect]

121. How many of us have fax machines . . . but I noticed a few of the progressive orgs

have had a fax option.

[zalinda]

157. A lot of printers have a fax option n/t

[slipslidingaway]

108. David Swanson speaking about a possible vote on Friday for SP...

a throw away vote, no CBO score, no debate.

Thread in PV
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=398505&mesg_id=398505

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwydHL4AkKA

[chill_wind]

110. Four years ago, Nancy Pelosi made history.

Sadly it has seemed she decided early on that was enough.

[tomp]

114. "the democratic/liberal base that the party has taken for granted for so long...

... is on the verge of breaking and that the health care reform will be the final straw. I told him that the democratic leadership so poorly represents the views & beliefs of their liberal base (the majority of people) that they are giving us no reason to support the democrats. I told him that the smartest, most creative part of the democratic party (the progressive base) is seriously on the verge of third party and if this is the way we are treated when we call about a life or death issue, they have made the decision for us."

that is it! thanks.

[LatteLibertine]

119. Disappointing

and I am not surprised. Poke around the below link and look at the money that is being spent by lobbyists so they can shape health care reform.

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/lm_health.php

Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of our politicians may be bought and often not for a very high price in the big scheme of things, or that is considering the wealth of who's doing the bribery.

These people aren't cowards, they're soulless folks interested in being wealthy, "powerful" career politicians regardless of the impact that is had on the average US citizen.

Keep in mind, we're talking about a group of people that routinely turn down raising the minimum wage while often voting themselves a 3k "cost of living" increase.

I mean look at the amount of money these folks spend to get these positions. That right there should tell you something is up.

I won't even get into the "revolving door" from government to lobbying and back again.

[insidejoke]

124. I Feel Like...

...Pelosi has done more to bog down, oppose, and simply ignore policies under President Obama than she EVER did under President Bush. Yeah, they passed some necessary bills (which the White House opposed) the first couple months she became Speaker, but after that I felt like she pretty much adopted the stance of "What does the Bush Administration want rubber stamped? Because we'll rubber stamp it!"

Don't get me wrong. I don't want a democracy where there's no discussion of important issues (or we end up with ill conceived plans like the PATRIOT Act and the bailout), but I want a discussion about best serving the American people. I feel like all that's happening here is squabbling and attempts at trying to appease the public in the most minimal (and least participatory) means possible.

[historian]

125. sad to say but...

the only time our so called representatives will listen to us is if we send them a parcel containing thousands of signatures saying they will not vote for that person anymore unless they listen to us the people.

[ChiciB1]

210. Send them A Parcel & They Might arrest You!! Oh, I Forgot... They Can X-Ray

those things!!
:shrug:

[dflprincess]

218. They won't pay any attention then either

they'll figure by the time the next election rolls around we'll have either forgotten or the only choices we'll have is between them and a Republican. They don't believe we might show up to vote in other races where we have a real choice, but just skip theirs.

[Grinchie]

127. I'm glad I bailed when they reappointed Michael Taylor to the USDA

Otherwise, I'd be as furious as the OP on this matter.

But, the reality is that we have a repeat of the DLC Hillbilly Hoedown, and the people that still think there is any hope for change are still in denial.

Corporate America at its worst.

[ima_sinnic]

128. flood her snail mail w hard-copy letters and jam her fax machine

Handwritten letters with 44 cents invested MIGHT be looked at. Faxes are about a buck apiece at a place like Kinkos if you don't have a fax machine.

[democracy1st]

131. K & R

[mmonk]

134. Yet "liberals" and "big government" will be blamed for the bill

that passes but falls short and does not contain costs.

[JNelson6563]

138. Call the field offices

and write letters, send them to the Rep's offices in their home state.

I can relate to the phone policy. People call and yes, they should be answered, but you would be surprised at long people will go on.

I've seen it in person enough times. There's a Senator talking to constituents. Giving each person a few minutes but, to be fair to all, only a few minutes per person so there's time for all. Never fails, some inconsiderate person(s) decides fuck everyone else, and goes on and on and on and on.........

If you want to talk to someone who in demand like that here is a tip: Choose one point you want to make and do so in 2 minutes or less. Can't manage that? Try harder. Try putting it into a 100 word letter, an excellent exercise to polish one's skills at effective but brief communication. I recently wrote a letter to the editor to promote a school board candidate. You are allowed 100 words only. My first draft was way too long but included lots of things I wanted to say. The edited version omitted lots but left the main point of the message.

Julie

[BrklynLiberal]

139. K&R!!! Grayson for Speaker!!!!!!

:grr:

[stlsaxman]

140. Though my hope is that we're NOT being ignore- maybe her office is saving the calls to build a case?

... just a thought- perhaps a dream.

[Hekate]

141. I don't suppose anyone would like to imagine what it's like being one of the inundated staffers?

Especially when the callers are vociferous and long-winded? Do you think our Reps each have a phone bank at their disposal? -- or maybe just a usual office staff. Do you think the staffers are writing down each word?

Let me tell you what I observed in my Senator's office when I dropped by during Bill Clinton's impeachment debate to get a ticket to sit in the gallery and watch the Senators bloviate for an hour. The one person I saw taking calls from the public had a yellow legal pad in front of him, marked off into different categories or sections. Each caller was responded to politely -- and a simple hatch mark was put into one of the categories. It was like a phone-in poll. For impeachment... against impeachment... The calls kept coming, one after the other.

So now when I send an email I am very careful about two things: my subject line and my first paragraph. If they can't slot it into a category fast, my point will be lost. Same thing with my phone calls.

Voice mail is just an automated version of that yellow legal pad, after all, and as you know from your home use it avoids having to hire a butler to take your calls when you're not available. Senators and Reps do not have a budget for a phone bank. Someone will listen to your message -- but they won't take dictation.

I'm a bit irked at Diane Feinstein that I can never get through at all just now. The line in Washington is always busy, and the voice mailbox in Los Angeles is full. On the other hand, it's not personal, is it? It just means that many people other than myself are phoning in.

It's not personal.

Hekate

[elizfeelinggreat]

142. Thanks for taking the time to write this

I hope that this is the way all phone calls in this situation are handled.

Your point about not taking down every word is well stated but I think knowing that our concern will be/is being counted would do a lot to help frustrated callers calm down.

Getting shunted to a machine is disconcerting without the explanation.

[defendandprotect]

193. When experienced staffers listen to callers, they are able to fill in the categories . . .

with additional information they've gotten from callers.

That's what should make staff valuable.

[Hekate]

200. How much time per caller in a 10-hour day do you think they can give when thousands call?

Of course I expect professionalism and courtesy, but unless I am calling the local office of my local Representative on an ordinary day, I don't expect a whole conversation.

I used to be a secretary in the long ago, and I would take voluminous notes from callers. My standards are pretty high.

Hekate

[defendandprotect]

203. I've often been on the phone with a live staffer for more than 1 minute . . .

certainly two minutes -- but you can say a lot in that time.

However, if you mention privatization of public education, you don't want to hear

a "Whaaaat?" -- do you?

[Gman]

146. What do you want her to do?

hire more people to argue?

[bonnieS]

148. my experience

is that as soon as I say I am calling about health care (I could just as easily be calling in praise of their efforts) i am put to the machine. I thought everyone was put to the machine. Silly me.

[Ganja Ninja]

149. She's probably flooded with calls from both sides.

But there shouldn't be any confusion about what the people who voted Democrat want.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

150. Wonder how that compares

with the attention given to the insurance lobbyists.

[Javaman]

152. Ahh, your first mistake was believing that they DID give a rat's ass about us.

it, as it's always been, is about money.

I look at that moron bloomberg in NYC. He bought himself an election. $100 million dollars worth of votes. $77.50 per voter.

our "elected" officials haven't had to answer to the American people in long time. They only answer to the deep pockets.

This has never been more evident than with the bailout of goldman sacks and the slow dismantling of the public option.

77% of the people of this nation want a public option. Traditionally red states have overwhelming support for a public option. The liberal and moderate democratic base want a public option. Yet, YET, we are told via the noise box that "there just isn't enough support for it". Oddly, they are being truthful when they say it, because since they don't listen to us and they only listen to the insurance and pharma corps, they are being told just that.

"you support a public option, we cut off your campaign contributions" says the fat cat lobbyist.

So, you see, there isn't any support for the public option...at least not from the corps.

I have been watching the slow disintegration of this "nation health care plan" and it reminds me of the waxman climate bill. Lots of fluff, but in the end, it was too little and will be enacted much too late.

In my crystal ball I look 20 years into the future. Health care reform will have died. Many loop holes will be found, our rates will be through the ceiling, 47 million without health care will look like a small amount. Health problems will only increase as climate change kicks into high gear.

So what were you saying about them not giving a rat's ass about us?

Remember one thing, the military industrial complex is doing a booming business.

[Echo In Light]

202. +1 - the charade will continue only as long as it's profitable for vested interests

[Raster]

158. The corporate paymasters don't want a fair, viable public option.

Therefore their Congressional accomplices don't want a fair, viable public option. Let's be frank: every citizen in this country could be clamoring for a fair, viable public option and still the public option would be DEAD ON ARRIVAL. Why?

On the surface a public option makes so much sense:

A public option would allow every man, woman and child to be adequately covered for the first time in history;

By all FAIR AND HONEST accounts, a public option would be far cheaper than our current "for profit" insurance model;

A public option could be based on Medicare, one of the most successful government programs of all time;

A public option could be enacted and implemented in record time. We already have the business model in place, we already have the infrastructure in place.

So why is Congress kicking and screaming to avoid a fair, viable public option?

1. Money. Loss of revenue for the "for profit" insurance industry, which spends BILLIONS lobbying Congress.
2. Choice. A public option could allow citizens more control of their work lives. No longer would you be forced to stay with a job you hated because you needed the insurance. Let's face it: employer-provided, "for profit" medical insurance is a form of coercion and control.
3. Empowerment. A public option would open the door to average, ordinary citizens realizing they have power and control, one thing the corporatocracy DOES NOT WANT. The successful Presidential campaign of Barack Obama has frightened the plutocracy. They know the Jane and Joe America have seen they can be heard and they can influence this country's destiny, and that is one thing the corporate masters cannot have. Aware, alert, informed and empowered citizens are the death-knell for the ruling class and the plutocracy.

[gateley]

160. Need to bring this to the attention of Ed or Rachel -- they won't have any qualms

about calling her out on it.

[theFrankFactor]

162. I Told You So - TOP SECRET INSIDER INFORMATION!

Listen, Bauchus was given his position by "party leaders". Nancy and Harry have been sucking cock now for almost a decade... remember? The outcome of this charade was determined way before this point. YOU MUST GET IT, WE ALL ALL PUNKS! Barack is basically hands off. This way he can throw his hands up and say "hey, this is what a BI-PARTISAN bill looks like. I'm great! Victory for us!" And gaggles of brain dead Democrats will throw confetti and high five each other like idiots.

From the get-go this was understood to be industry friendly LIKE EVERY FUCKING THING ELSE!

YOU SHOULD BE SO FUCKING PISSED YOU... WELL, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
Hint: Asking Nancy and Harry to take the dicks out of their mouths probably won't do it.

[asdjrocky]

164. Absolutely.

You have to be some kind of a sucker if you think the Dems or the pugs care at all about the people. Phone calls, letters, emails, volunteer until you're blue and it doesn't matter to any of these people.

The system is broken.

[saracat]

216. +1 Rocky!

[Aramchek]

168. "Single Payer or Bust" is for buffoons

but don't let me ruin your fun...

[Raineyb]

172. You're doing exactly what we're supposed to do and are being ignored

Yet there are those on this site who would argue that you are not being sufficiently supportive and should vote for whomever has a D after their name no matter how they behave once they're in office.

DLC apologists please take note! Is this the sort of behavior that we're supposed to support unwaveringly?

[DesertFlower]

173. K&R.

[kaehele]

178. Confirmation of what we hoped isn't true

What an interesting new view of the Speaker. Thanks for posting this. It enrages me as well. And it is especially crazy-making when we hear the returds announcing how few members of the public want single payer.

So how do we get this info out and stir the public pot a bit? How about your contacting Howard Finemann (sp?) at Newsweek? Or writing a My Turn--if that still exists.

[shireen]

180. just forwarded it to [e-mail]

if anyone knows how to forward it to KO and Big Ed, please try.

[dgibby]

181. Send this to Big Eddie, Rachel, and Keith.

If you don't have time, I'd be happy to send it for you. Thanks. You did great!:hi: :hug: :yourock:

[Laurab]

183. K&R nt

[patrice]

184. I have been saying this around here for a few months now: It's time for us to start . . .

When phone calls are made, it is time for us to start not only stating our positions on the issues, but ALSO:

REQUIRE THAT THE STAFF TELL YOU HOW THE INFORMATION YOU ARE GIVING THEM WILL BE PROCESSED.

Tallied? -> What are the tally categories? and how will the categories be combined into somekind of report?
Stored? -> Where? In what format? Who has access to this info? What have they used it for in the past? What are their plans (if any) for this information in the future?
Notes? -> Is the info annotated with any actual direct quotes from callers? If not, why not? If so, whose comments make it into the database (IF there is one) and whose don't? Why?/Why not?
Sources? -> Are all of the different sources of input (phone calls, mail, email, visits, town halls etc.) corelated somehow? Does it all go into the same database? Or different databases? ? ? ? ? . . .

I could go on, but you get the idea: We are not going to get treated with respect until we demand it.

[patrice]

185. P.S. And whatever you/we find out about this process issue should be plastered all over the internet

[pundaint]

186. We need to re-establish sovereignty over our government

We need to vote out every one of these bastards who aren't loudly advocating in the people's interests, but are loyal only to their jobs and corporate boss's. Keep only the handful who are working for us now.

Beat the Dems in primaries, but turn out the incumbents in 2010, put the People back in charge!

If it doesn't work in '10, do it again!

[swilton]

191. Sign Me Up for the Third Party

I was put into the answering machine when I mentioned these ammendments!:wtf:

[Politicub]

194. I respect and admire Speaker Pelosi for keeping things running smoothly in the house for HC

Is she perfect? No, but neither is anyone else. And maybe she should have added more staffers to field the influx of calls. But while people in this thread are moaning and rending sackcloth, she continues to soldier on.

I want single payer as much as any other person on DU. And I think this bill will put us on a path to getting there one day. If it passes, it will transform the HC system for good, and position the U.S. to go single payer one day in the future. It may be 10 or 20 years from now, but look at how long it has taken we dems to get this far. The ability to finally change healthcare, even a little, is highly symbolic and embodies the spirit of "Yes we Can" from the Obama campaign.

I feel like Speaker Pelosi is treating this as the apex of her public service. Again, she hasn't been perfect but I admire how she is able to wrangle votes. And if the congress is able to pass something, we will have proven that the dems can get something big done. She is not backing down from a public option. It may not be the ultimate public option, but it is a public option nonetheless.

It's too bad that the majority here are all or nothing. This bill will help a lot of people.

[Hannah Bell]

199. if she's so good at wrangling votes, maybe she could wrangle some for real reform.

she's "able to get things done" -- just not the things the general public wants. only the things the international corporate elite want done.

"will put us on a path to getting there one day."

lol. we could get there now, except it's not where the ruling class wants to go. they're not going to want it any more "one day".

they want *everything,* they don't want you to have *anything*.

[Politicub]

204. It may not be "real reform" to you, but it will positively impact millions

And besides, I'm not one to sacrifice good for the perfect. If we miss this window because some want to make sure this is the penultimate healthcare bill of utmost perfection, then years will go by where nothing is done and insurers can continue to deny people based on pre-existing conditions and all of the other evils that they perpetuate.

But I can't stop you, so carry on with your crusade to deny help to millions while you patiently wait for something absolutely perfect.

[Hannah Bell]

207. "impact" it will. "help"? doubtful.

pelosi = war profiteer, grifter.

[Politicub]

224. Outside of your obvious personal bias against Speaker Peolsi, do you honestly believe...

that it won't have ANY positive impact?

You probably don't care, but your style of all-or-nothing opposition puts you in the same league as the GOP. There's a more constructive way to debate.

But I don't know you, and that may be you m.o.

[Hannah Bell]

228. my "personal" bias? she's a war profiteer, it's a fact.

very positive for corps.

[winyanstaz]

196. K & R.....

Its not just a new speaker of the house we need.
There are only a very few Democrats left in office still working for the people that elected them...
The left has become as corrupt as the right.
Time for a NEW DEMOCRAT PARTY!!!
In fact..that would be a good name..The New Democrat Party.
Because the old one is busted and rotten to the core and we have been sold out. :S

[ChiciB1]

212. I'm thinking Something Like The "People's Party!" If We Could Just Start

organizing in a REAL way and stop talking about leaving the Democratic Party, then maybe it might wake them up!

Still, Independents are growing bigger than ever and that may just be where we'll have to go! It's established anyway. The problem being is that it can go either way... Liberal or Conservative and that's where it falls apart for me!

[slackmaster]

197. Congratulations to you for figuring out what Nancy Pelosi is really about

I've known it for many years.

[Hannah Bell]

198. pelosi = war profiteer & closet pub. recall her.

[dhpgetsit]

209. I have always said

We won't get anything close to Single Payer until we get a LOT more uppity with MASSIVE demonstrations, general strikes, and civil disobedience on a regular basis.

[ChiciB1]

211. I've Said It Too... Hundreds Of Times... Just Posted About It Again Up Thread!!

Too many don't think it will work, but as I said before... what we're doing right now ISN'T working, so something else NEEDS to be done!!

[janet118]

214. Who are these people? They are supposed to be representing us?

I sent an e-mail to Sen. John Kerry who, although you may not have noticed because he was sooooo quiet during the debate, was on the Senate Finance Committee. I asked him to tell me where he stood on health care and whether he would support Medicare for All or a strong public option for everyone. He sent me back a kind of bland overview of all his work on the S-Chips program and other borderline health issues and how great the Mass. insurance plan was working out. He made no mention of a public option or sliding scale Medicare. When I tried to reply to his answer, it bounced.

After Sen. Kennedy died, I tried again. I sent another letter stressing my concerns even more strongly. I asked him if he were going to fight for Kennedy's plan which was "Medicare for Everyone." I said the Massachusetts plan - with no public option - was a joke for the middle class, the self-employed, pre-Medicare older people.

Guess what he sent back to me . . . THE EXACT SAME LETTER.

I guess these royals don't have to worry about health care because we - the peasants - pay for their cadillac plans.

How come they always say how many calls the teabagger-types make and never mention how many pro-public option or single payer they get? Maybe because they don't hear any of them and just make up the numbers. The game is rigged. Only the rich and the media they own are heard. We, "real Americans" are sent form letters and hustled off to answering machines.

[FiveGoodMen]

215. Nancy was never on our side.

We'd be better off if she'd lost to a puke and the House had had to pick a new Speaker.

Well maybe ... they could obviously just pick another bad one.

[saracat]

217. Pelosi takes her orders from the president. Enuf said.

[Motown_Johnny]

219. What did you expect from the woman who refused to Impeach Bush no matter the circumstances?

[Beregond2]

220. I don't see the point of her staff wasting their time listening

to thousands of calls all saying the same thing. The point of calling is to let them know there are thousands of people with a certain opinion. A message acheives that end. In fact, it allows far more people to get through, so it seems to me they are doing the right thing.

[tbyg52]

225. This is not new.

I've called on other issues before, and they won't listen to even a few words. As soon as they realize you have a comment, they switch you to voice mail. But we all know who is running the guvmint, and it isn't the people.

[cascadiance]

226. Maybe we put a counter someplace on the web...

And each time someone calls and gets put on an answering machine and we get asked to record a message, we say something like:

"Another failure to communicate with your constituents. XX attempts to talk. XX more attempts left before we start a new party!

If we get everyone to do it, and folks like Pelosi see the number incrementally growing (as we each get a different number and follow through with these calls, maybe then they'll get the message of the MASSIVE frustration the PEOPLE have of feeling that ANYONE is hearing them in DC, and that time is running out on them if they want to be a part of the solution, or if we need to start kicking some of the old corporate deadwood out in 2010!

[Generator]

227. Newsflash: they don't work for you and me

They work for themselves. For their own career. Their only goal is to continue to get re-elected no matter how many innocent people they are responsible for sending to their deaths. Health care is less direct than war-and they have no problem sending men and women to die-today and tomorrow still for failed policies and lies and Utopian dreams in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And yeah, I figured it out. Yeah, it took me awhile. Pelosi and Obama with his best friend Rahm were the last straw. I swear -I will never vote for a Democrat for president again. Voting third party is a joke too. I would be hard pressed to vote for a senator at this point. There are a few congressmen and women that actually represent the people-though maybe I shouldn't vote for them-they would be better off leading protests marches in the streets. YEAH, it might take 30 years-but it's better than pretending anything will ever change with these liars that only work for their own interests. No mas. No mas.

[winyanstaz]

230. And now Reid is saying no bill before next year...

and in the meantime...more Americans are dropping dead because of no health care.