Mandatory Vaccinations

[StarryNite]

Some people want them, some don't. But I don't think they should be mandatory in order to receive health care.

Will Fed.Government’s Proposed Mandatory Health Insurance Work?
October 29th, 2009 | By Robert Fredricks Posted in Health Insurance News

Understanding Health Reform

The Government’s proposed mandatory health insurance has been the headline of most news media and on most American’s minds these past months. But, there have been many reports, studies and surveys that show Americans will most likely “not comply” with the mandate of health insurance as reported by the Insurance Research Council.

~snip~

What Will Be Considered Mandatory

The Federal Government’s proposed mandatory health insurance will mean mandatory vaccinations/immunizations. The Center for Disease Control (CDC) says that for anyone who refuses to keep up-to-date vaccinations, under the new health reform, you will not be able to obtain any health care you may need until immunizations are current.

http://www.youronlineinsurance.com/health-insurance/will-fed-governments-proposed-mandatory-health-insurance-work-141/#comment-9

[grantcart]

1. In the past the government has ordered and implemented mandatory vaccinations

Small Pox and Polio were wiped out due to mandatory vaccination programs.

Measles Mumps and Rubella had a near mandatory status where once an outbreak occured then there would be a mandatory order for the affected area, and have now been virtually eliminated in North America.

That does not mean that all vaccinations should be made mandatory, but where there is a clear case that public health can be significantly improved and that a particular disease can be eradicated then it absolutely should be made mandatory.

[StarryNite]

2. To deny

other health care because somebody has chosen not to have a vaccination is ludicrous. Somebody breaks a bone or is in a car accident and they are denied help because of a lack of being vaccinated? You have got to be kidding me. And how are they going to find out if the people had their mandatory vaccinations? RFID chips, perhaps?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

7. No it isn't.

Why in God's name should you be allowed to bring totally preventable contagious diseases into an environment where it will be in contact with people with diminished immune systems?

[grantcart]

38. show me where someone is talking about denial of emergency care

from a car accident because they are refusing a vaccine, talk about ludicrous.


Small Pox killed more people than all of the wars combined, over 500,000,000. Within just a hundred years ago it was still killing a million people a year, and you would make it voluntary?

[Posteritatis]

52. That 300-500M figure is *for the twentieth century alone*, too

I shudder to think about what would be going on if the antivaxxer movement had shown up back when the push to eradicate that was underway. They'd be fighting tooth and nail for their kids and their neighbors to be disfigured and killed.

[StarryNite]

73. What part of "any"

don't you get?

[grantcart]

80. your reading apprehension is below that of a 5th grader

public health

health care

emergency treatment



these three terms all represent completely different things.


If you can find an adult near by maybe they can explain to you the difference between health care and emergency treatment care.

In the case of emergency room treatment care it is always provided without insurance or previous medical history of any kind.


Now besides yourself can you find a citation of anyone else in any kind of authority, preferably not confined to an institute for treatment of mental disease, that considers that this would apply to the hypothetical you have indicated, a car accident victim?

[backwoodsbob]

129. maybe if you would stop waving your arms like a little girl

Why should ANY healthcare be denied based in vaccinations?

[StarryNite]

130. Hey grantcart

I believe the word you meant was comprehension not "apprehension"! OMG! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Posteritatis]

3. Polio isn't quite gone yet, thanks to antivaxxers here and there. (nt)

[StarryNite]

4. It should be a personal choice

what is jabbed into somebody's body.

[Posteritatis]

5. Depends on the disease. With smallpox, "fuck personal choice" was a good decision. (nt)

[Confusious]

9. San diego had an outbreak of measles because of unvacced kids

A baby died because of it.

explain to me the choice she and her mother had.

[Posteritatis]

14. Why, it was the *right* of those other parents to kill that baby! (nt)

[StarryNite]

18. What other part of your body

will you let the government control?

[Confusious]

21. Thats not the point

The point is, your putting other people at risk. Drinking to much alcohol only effects *YOU*, smoking pot only effects *YOU*, having an abortion only effects the woman *HAVING* the abortion. Not getting vaccinated effects everyone you come into contact with all day. And by contact I mean, anyone with 1/2 mile of where you are.

You still haven't explained the choice the baby and her mother had.

[Matariki]

125. IT IS THE POINT

I know someone who got a brain tumor from a mandatory (for the graduate program he attended) vaccine for measles. One of the KNOWN side effects of the vaccine in fact. After years of activism he was able to reverse the University's policy. The idea of being forced to have something injected into one's body is obscene.

[StarryNite]

126. Exactly!

No government should have the right to own the bodies of it's citizens. It is obscene and un-American. And what are these same sheep going to say when the next rethuglican administration winds up in office and starts adding more mandatory vaccines to the list? So much for freedom, I guess. And how many of these same people are pro-choice when it comes to abortions? Heck, why don't we just throw that out the window too. After all, we apparently aren't smart enough to make our own decisions when it comes to our body.

It's about informed choices.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

93. If you want to live out in the woods away from everybody else, fine. Don't get vaccinated.

But when you decide to live in a city, you have an obligation to uphold your end of the social contract. What you are doing no longer affects only you. You are exposing others to risk.

[rd_kent]

69. Yep, and if you make that choice, you also choose to stay away from the general public

because that CHOICE puts EVERYONE at risk.

[StarryNite]

72. Why would you think that?

If you believe the vaccine will protect you and you willingly get the vaccine then why would you fear those that choose not to get it?

[Confusious]

78. Because, if you read,

You would understand how bad these diseases are.

why would you fear those that choose not to get it?

*BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO CANNOT MAKE THOSE CHOICES AND YOU ARE PUTTING OTHERS AT RISK. EXAMPLE: THE BABY IN SAN DIEGO*

Are you deaf?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

94. Because this is basic Biology 101 stuff.

Vaccines are not effective 100% of the time. But they are effective enough that if everyone is vaccinated those who did not have successful vaccinations are protected by the immunized majority.

In addition, there are certain groups of people that are ineligible to receive certain vaccines: those with compromised immune systems, pregnant women, children under a certain age group, those who are already sick etc.

[Beacho]

90. Endangering other people or the public at large is not a right

You have no more right to put other people at risk, than did Mary Mallon (aka 'Typhoid Mary'). If anti vaccers really want to follow their beliefs than they should have the common decency to remove themselves and their children from contact with others.

The government not only has the power, but the charged duty, to protect the population at large. The balance between personal rights and protecting the population is clearly in favor of vaccinations.

If you want to enjoy the benefits of modern civilization, then play by the common sense rules used to perpetuate that civilization or GTFO.

[grantcart]

40. But when there is an outbreak CDC goes into the are and a mandatory

vaccine order is given for that area - is that correct?

[Posteritatis]

41. The CDC only has jurisdiction over five percent of the planet's populace

There are antivaxxers outside of the US that are often at least as dangerous as the ones within it.

[StarryNite]

48. So now

you want the CDC to have the power to call all the shots, pardon the pun, for the entire globe? You anti choice people are the dangerous ones.

[Posteritatis]

50. Wow, let's see what else you can lie about me saying. This should be fun. (nt)

[StarryNite]

55. I find it strange

that there are so many antichoicers on here.

[Confusious]

58. your choice

is the same thing as running a red light, robbing a bank, driving 100 miles an hour in a school zone. They effect other people then just *YOU*. You might be able to get away with it a few times, but sooner or later, your going to hit someone else, hurt someone, or kill a child. Which has already happened in San Diego.

I really wouldn't call it *CHOICE*. being an asshat, yes.

Are you going to say people should be allowed to do those things? We have to give up the right to be asshats to live in society.

[Posteritatis]

61. Shift them goalposts! Load that language! (nt)

[Confusious]

53. No, the UN has that authority

and uses the CDC to contain outbreaks of diseases. If that happens, then you really have no choice. You get them or you die.

[grantcart]

82. The "UN" actually does not exist as a unified structure

The international agency that is responsible for coordinating Public Health between countries is the World Health Organization.

[Confusious]

84. Thought they were part of the UN

I stand corrected sir :)

[grantcart]

89. There are only 5 "organs" of what people know to be the UN

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_System


UN Security Council
UN General Assembly
UN Secretariate
UN Economic and Security Council
International Court of Justice


The other agencies that carry the UN name

UNESCO
UNICEF
UNHCR

etc

and other agencies that carry UN type missions

WHO
IMO
ILO

All of these agencies have their own governing boards. Their employees are employed under the same International Civil Service System but each organization is responsible to its board and not the Security Council, General Assembly or UN Secretary General.

The US dominates these boards and usually has veto power on the Director and you will usually find the Deputy Director and operation head of the agency to be an American, Canadian, Australian or Brit.

This is why when people talk about UN conspiracies they are simply saying that they don't understand how the UN works.

Between the UN agencies it is somewhat difficult to organize a garage sale let alone world domination.

[Confusious]

91. Yes but what about a world dominating garage sale?

I know their thinking about it!!!! I've seen the black helicopters towing the signs!

[StarryNite]

92. I'm sure you'd be the first one

to step right in line for it. Heck, you're willing to give up the rights to your own body. LOL!

[Confusious]

105. And your a parrot

*SQUAK*

Polly wants choice

Polly says you want to give up the rights to your own body *SQuak*

Hate to break it to you, but being born in a country means you already give up some rights, i.e. Selective service. As a male you can be drafted.

We give up some rights to live in society.

Don't like it, go out in the forest and wipe your bum with leaves.

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. Hey... as a proud mother of two feathered children

I can attest they just don't repeat mindlessly....

:hi:

They are both sleeping right now by the way... ah some peace and quiet.

[grantcart]

76. The WHO has been very successful with mandatory world wide vaccines

when the circumstances warrant it. WHO successfully enforced a mandatory worldwide vaccine on Small Pox. They use a clever bounty system that rewards outbreaks and coercion is not needed.

BTW this thread was about mandatory American vaccination.

[Confusious]

86. They always turn to being about all vaccines

First responders being mandatory I support.

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. Realize in Mexico you want to send your kids to school

have the certificate up to date, or go to the Public Heath Office and get those vaccines up to date...

Anti vaxers need not try to enroll kids in either pubic or private schools... it is a national health care requirement.. this is a rule in so many countries it is not even funny... and compliance is VERY HIGH.

[Beacho]

99. The CDC doesn't have any jurisdiction over anyone

It's an advisory agency only. Just FYI. I love the fact that the anti-vaccer nutters think that the CDC is like the FBI or the ATF. It's not, it's mostly a research agency, coordinating with Acadamia, state health agencies, and health providers.

[lefty369]

127. Should be manditory and likely will be soon

judging by how fast the pandemic is spreading.

[Robb]

6. Fair's fair.

Although we could get some specific language in there.

If once decides to opt out of vaccination programs, one signs away any right to be treated for diseases related to the particular illness being vaccinated against and agrees to a higher rate based on paperwork involved to keep track of what they're not eligible to be treated for. I could support that. Keeps the anti-vaxers happy, and keeps government paper-pushers employed.

[StarryNite]

8. Other countries

Does anybody know if the countries which already have nationalized health care require vaccinations in order to receive medical treatment?

[Confusious]

10. In other countries

people are smart enough to see the benefits of vaccinations.

Or they want vaccinations, because they see the effects of not having them.

[StarryNite]

12. Oh, so your saying

they have a choice over their bodies. Interesting.

[Confusious]

13. No I'm saying

They aren't stupid enough to *NOT* take them.

[StarryNite]

16. But they have the choice..

Because I hope you realize that you are way over the top to imply that every person in all of those countries wants the vaccinations...which ever and whatever vaccinations might come along. A person would have to be a real fool to just go along with whatever a government might want to stick in your body without question. The key should be informed choice.

[Confusious]

19. Oh, they may have a choice

on the flu vaccine, just as you do.

If you refuse measles, polio, rubella, typhus, tuberculosis, then your choice is deaf or blind, crippled or the iron lung, death, death, death.

And I'm more then happy that your refused medical treatment. It keeps you out of the doctors office spreading diseases to babies who have *NO* choice.

[StarryNite]

23. You sure like to exaggerate

and spread the fear. death, death, death... LOL! btw some people do die from the vaccines. So I could turn that around on you if I was being as silly as you are and say vaccinations...crippled, death, death, death. But of course I'm not so ignorant as to imply that everybody who gets a vaccination will suffer an adverse affect and not everybody who doesn't get them will wind up with the disease. Because to make those implications is nothing but spreading fear and stupidity.

[Confusious]

26. I do?

My great grand mother had a daughter who died from rubella. I just did a report in a history class about a man who died from tuberculosis.

You need to read more history.

"not everybody who doesn't get them will wind up with the disease"

Not everyone who plays Russian roulette will die. Why take the chance?

[StarryNite]

37. Yes you do

When I was a kid there were no vaccinations for rubella or other measles. I didn't die.

There are people who believe it's playing Russian roulette to have a vaccination. Why are you do against personal choice?

[Confusious]

43. When were you a kid?

"When I was a kid there were no vaccinations for rubella or other measles. I didn't die."

100 years ago? 10 years ago? I got the usual shots. 40 years ago. If your older then that, then you were lucky. If younger then you probably got them and don't remember.

"There are people who believe it's playing Russian roulette to have a vaccination. Why are you do against personal choice?"

And they are *WRONG*. You have much better chances with vaccines then without. PERSONAL CHOICE? Your personal choice *KILLS* other people.

[LeftishBrit]

120. In the UK, vaccinations are not mandatory

In some Europaean countries, like France, some vaccinations are mandatory; but I don't they are explicitly tied in to the right to receive health care.

[StarryNite]

11. Great for Big Pharma

They could just start producing vaccinations for all kinds of things and the minute you decide you don't want a particular one you become SOL for any kind of health care. Tough shit if you become pregnant or a drunk driver hits you. That's what happens when the government tries to control your body.

[Confusious]

15. "Big Pharma"

Makes almost no money from vaccines, except for newest ones. the Gov'ment paid for the latest flu vaccine.

[StarryNite]

17. Oh?

And who did the government pay and where did the government get the money to pay them? LOL!

[Confusious]

20. The gov'ment told them to make it

and then paid cost.

"cost" = the cost to make the vaccine.

[StarryNite]

24. And you don't think

they made any profit?! LOL!

[Confusious]

32. How many people in the US?

330 million? they make less then 50 cents on every shot. what is your point? vaccines are unsafe? I just wish they made as little on all their drugs. Or would you like to see them nationalized, or out of business. I'm just wondering where you're going with this.

Still waiting on the explanation of choice the mother and her baby had.

[Posteritatis]

35. "at cost" largely precludes any real profit, so probably not. (nt)

[Robb]

22. Actually, even the new ones.

Best estimates put all flu vaccines this season accounting for a little less than 7% of U.S. pharmaceutical sales.

"Big whoop." -- Big Pharma :D

[StarryNite]

25. Even 7%

of their profits is huge!

[Robb]

28. LOL

Not compared to the rest of their profits.

Put another way: if you make $100 per hour, would you leave your job during the day to take a $7/hour piece of side work? How about if it had the tiniest possibility you might be late coming back and lose your $100/hour job?

[Confusious]

29. How many people in the US

330 million? So what. what is the point? vaccines are unsafe? I just wish they made as little on all their drugs. Or would you like to see them nationalized, or out of business. I'm just wondering where you're going with this.

Still waiting on the explanation of choice the mother and her baby had.

[StarryNite]

33. I'm saying that

what happens to my body should be my choice. As far as that baby, well what about the babies who will die from vaccinations? Because it will happen. Did you know that in Flagstaff, AZ several children were given the wrong dose of the vaccine? Twice the amount that they should have been given. And what if you don't agree with the next vaccination they come up with? You might agree with what's out there now but how about in the future? You're just going to turn your body over to the government to make those decisions for you?

[Confusious]

39. you have to be freaking kidding me

"As far as that baby, well what about the babies who will die from vaccinations? Because it will happen."

Oh, please. That's not an argument. That's just Jenny McCarthy bullshit

If it weren't for vaccinations, child mortality would be one thousand times higher.

"Did you know that in Flagstaff, AZ several children were given the wrong dose of the vaccine? Twice the amount that they should have been given"

How many people die from human error? Planes come down. accidents happen. I see you didn't include what happened to the children. Did they die? or where they OK? You left that out, so I assume they were alright.

"You're just going to turn your body over to the government to make those decisions for you?"

I don't have to. My parents got me the vaccines when I was a kid ( During smallpox and polio ). I got my child her vaccines. VOLUNTARILY. Now we just need to stop stupid people from spreading diseases.

You can always move to the middle of the nowhere.

If you live in society you *ALWAYS* have to give up a little freedom. I can't yell "fire" in a theater. I can't rob a bank. I can't piss in the middle of the street. I can't walk around naked.

[rd_kent]

103. I'm saying that you are believing in a risk that is negligable...

You are more likely to drown in your bathtub than to have a complication from a vaccine. Vaccines work, vaccines are safe and vaccines should be mandatory for anyone that wants to use public facilities.

[Posteritatis]

34. Yeah, those money-grubbing fiends, selling something that results in fewer expensive hospital stays

All part of their evil plan to make more money by not having to sell the equipment and medication needed to treat secondary pneumonia or any of that other fun stuff. So subtle, so cunning that it appears to be having the exact opposite effect!

[csziggy]

27. Who is financing the web site you linked to? They SELL health insurance there!

Looks like insurance companies:

About Us

As an organization, YourOnlineInsurance.com is an experienced and dedicated group of researchers covering the entire insurance industry as a whole. Our goal is to be the one-stop source to answering your questions about all insurance categories such as car, health, life, homeowner’s insurance just to name a few.

Additionally, our goal is also to provide you, the consumer, with the opportunity to shop online and compare multiple free quotes from insurance providers in all the sectors of the insurance industry. You can research and purchase your insurance policy without having to put your keys in the ignition and drive all around town!
Our Foundation And Mission

In August of 2005, our founders began assembling our team of researchers that cover and are scattered throughout all regions of the United States. Their intent was, and is, to have research coverage that brings you information not only nationally but “regionally,” too.

Our mission is to provide to you the continual evolution of added resources allowing you to compare rates of multiple insurance companies to make an educated decision to purchase insurance through one-stop online shopping. We have trusted affiliate insurance providers eager to get you a quote within about 15 minutes.
http://www.youronlineinsurance.com/about-us/

And the writer of the piece you posted? Not experienced in journalism or research, apparently:

Robert Fredricks – Mr. Fredricks recently graduated from the University of Michigan to begin his career as a writer. Robert works on the health insurance industry news, staying up to date on the most recent government and industry changes.
http://www.youronlineinsurance.com/our-writers/

I was looking for a link the statement by the CDC that was cited - no link and I cannot find anything on the CDC website about that, though I do not have time this afternoon to exhaustively search for it. If Mr. Fredericks has mentioned a name of a person at the CDC or even, as a supposed researcher, included a link, I would be more willing to take the "article" at face value.

I suspect this is another effort by the insurance industry to discredit health care (or more accurately, health insurance) reform.

[StarryNite]

30. I hope you're right

I really do. Because until I saw this I was hoping for a good health care plan. But I don't want to have to turn my body over to the government to force mandatory anything on me. It's my body and the choices for it should be mine. I can't believe how many people are willing to let the government make those choices for them. I wonder how all of these same people feel about abortion rights. I guess if one day the government overturns R vs W they'll be okay with that too because after all, it's the government and they know what's best for each and every one of us.

[Confusious]

31. Here's the point

"I wonder how all of these same people feel about abortion rights."

The point is, your putting other people at risk. Drinking to much alcohol only effects *YOU*, smoking pot only effects *YOU*, having an abortion only effects the woman *HAVING* the abortion. Not getting vaccinated effects everyone you come into contact with all day. And by contact I mean, anyone with 1/2 mile of where you are.

You still haven't explained the choice the baby and her mother had.

[Posteritatis]

36. Though with the drinking issue..

There's laws regulating what one can do while under the influence of alcohol.

Aren't DUI limits the government controlling what you do with your body and assigning consequences should you ignore their demands?

Isn't it strange that the OP's complaining about ebil gummint intrusion into our bodies with a one-time shot while ignoring this far more ubiquitous, clearly viler and more tyrannical control of our very brains and livers and hand-eye coordinations?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[StarryNite]

44. You're wrong

For one thing why should you worry about me if you're vaccinated? And drinking too much and smoking cigarettes or anything else that is harmful does affect everybody because it all feeds into the cost of health care. And did you know the nose spray for the H1N1 makes the person who gets it contagious?

Life is risky. Some people will die. But that does not give anybody the right over what happens to my body. What if my child gets a vaccination that cripples him? Why does that not bother you?

[Confusious]

45. Why?

Have you not been reading? *PEOPLE DIE*, not will die, probably die, might die, as in your case. *PEOPLE HAVE DIED BECAUSE OF UNVACCINATED KIDS*

"And drinking too much and smoking cigarettes or anything else that is harmful does affect everybody because it all feeds into the cost of health care."

And not getting vaccinations will feed into the cost of healthcare. What if someone caught polio? Had to spend the rest of their lives in an iron lung?

"What if my child gets a vaccination that cripples him? Why does that not bother you?"

Does it bother me if one gets hurt? yes. But do I think it will happen from vaccines? no. I read about history. I see the effects these diseases have had. I prefer *VACCINES*

[StarryNite]

47. What if under the next

administration they come out with a vaccine that you don't want? Something that hasn't been tested by deemed by Big Pharma and the government that if you want future health care you have to have it? Are you really okay with that? Why are you anti choice?

[Confusious]

49. Because

They can't just come out with vaccines whenever they want. vaccines are not *DRUGS*. vaccines are dead viruses. They have to have a live virus, which they kill.

"Why are you anti choice?"

*BECAUSE* your choice is the same thing as running a red light, robbing a bank, driving 100 miles an hour in a school zone. They effect other people then just *YOU*. You might be able to get away with it a few times, but sooner or later, your going to hit someone else, hurt someone, or kill a child. Which has already happened in San Diego.

I really wouldn't call it *CHOICE*. being an asshat, yes.

Are you going to say people should be allowed to do those things? We have to give up the right to be asshats to live in society.

[Egnever]

114. Did you hear there are death panels too?!!!! I am series!!!!!!

Sigh

[winyanstaz]

42. So..its ok to let people die if their shots are not current?

This is insane people....sheesh..
And you all know by now who was running the agency that got the license for the swine flu vacines dont you? Chairman of the board... Rumsfield....
This is all his pay-off for betraying the Constitution and America.

[StarryNite]

46. Exactly!

Apparently there are those who are happy to turn their body over to the government. Choice is of no importance to them. Sad.

[Confusious]

51. How many people will die

When they walk into a doctors office carrying rubella, typhus or tuberculosis?

[StarryNite]

54. If it's a choice

people will still get the vaccinations just as they are now. Why are you against people being allowed to have a choice of what goes into their own body?

[Confusious]

56. *BECAUSE*

your choice is the same thing as running a red light, robbing a bank, driving 100 miles an hour in a school zone. They effect other people then just *YOU*. You might be able to get away with it a few times, but sooner or later, your going to hit someone else, hurt someone, or kill a child. Which has already happened in San Diego.

I really wouldn't call it *CHOICE*. being an asshat, yes.

Are you going to say people should be allowed to do those things? We have to give up the right to be asshats to live in society.

[winyanstaz]

59. So I guess you will volunteer to be first with all the new shots :)

We will be sure to let you too.

See: Vaccines as Biological Weapons? Live Avian Flu Virus Placed in Baxter Vaccine Materials Sent to 18 Countries

http://www.naturalnews.com/025760.html
http://www.birdflumonitor.com/live_avian_flu_virus_placed_in_baxter_vaccine_material_sent_to_18_-archive.html
http://community.wddty.com/forums/thread/7256.aspx


you wanna trust the government..go right ahead...
you wanna trust the vaccine makers...go right ahead...
You wanna make it manditory that I do...fuck you.

[Confusious]

63. So people should

be allowed to run red lights, rob banks, and drive 100 miles an hour in school zones?

I'm just extrapolating from you response.

[winyanstaz]

74. so yes...I would say your "extrapolating" all right ...and making crap up too.

no one said those things should be allowed.
I can make up all kinds of crap as well..that is not the point.
The point is..the government and society has NO right to put anything into your body..period.
We are supposed to be the land of the FREE...
NOT the land of the frikkin wage slave government lackeys that can be shot full of chemicals at the governments whim.
You want to be the guinea pig for the governments experiements..go right ahead...
You want to trust Baxter...go right ahead...just remember they have already been busted for sending contaminated vaccines out to 18 countries already.
http://community.wddty.com/forums/thread/7256.aspx
If you want to make laws making me a slave...then fuck you.

[Confusious]

81. You put others at risk

with your *choice*. I say it's the same thing as my examples. I also say you are being selfish, because there are those who can't make those *choices* so you are making it for them.

Is that *PROGRESSIVE*?

[StarryNite]

62. You go ahead and give up your choices

but don't expect me to give up mine. I want to make my own informed decisions about my own body. I'm not an asshat for that but you definitely are a sheeple.

[Confusious]

64. Well then,

selfish asshat for running red lights, robbing banks, and driving 100 miles in a school zone, because it's their *CHOICE*

[winyanstaz]

111. I apoligize for trying to communicate with you...my bad.

I don't normally try to reason with people who babble. It saves me a lot of frustration. :)

[Occulus]

117. There are some adults who cannot take some vaccines.

They literally cannot have them for legitimate physical reasons- allergies to the methods used to produce the vaccines, in most cases.

So, suppose you walk into a doctor's office coughing and sneezing from the H1N1 flu, and the person next to you is there for something unrelated. The person next to you hasn't had the vaccine, not because he did not choose to, but because he cannot take it, period.

You infect him. He subsequently dies.

Now suppose it's little baby too young to get the vaccine in the first place, or someone with a compromised immune system, like a cancer or HIV patient.

What does that make you?

[winyanstaz]

118. It makes me one of the people that CANNOT take the shots...

as I am allergic to whatever they put into the flu shots.
So..I should just stay home and die? People like me cannot go to the Doctors?...
What does that make YOU?

[winyanstaz]

57. at any given time...there are many children in the public NOT inoculated against everything...

as well as the amish and other religious groups do not believe in vaccines..and yet we dont see people dropping dead there like flies now do we....
You people that want to give over your lives and bodies to the government fear mongers make me sick....too bad there is no vaccine for that.

[Confusious]

60. San diego had an outbreak of measles because of unvacced kids

A baby died because of it.

What choice did she and her mother have?

And the reason no one is dropping dead in the United States is because of vaccines. In other countries the story is different. Go to india, there is still pilio. If someone goes over there, and gets it, and brings it back, a lot of dead and crippled children.

Do you want to be responsible for that?

The United States is in an oasis free of some of the worst diseases.

[winyanstaz]

66. according to you..that baby should have been vaccinated already.

and you just know it came from unvaccinated kids...and not some government lab to push the vaccine scare......must be nice to be so all knowing and powerful.

[Confusious]

71. No, I just read

And the CDC came out with the numbers, and the source, all SOP for them.

The CDC is a gov'ment agency, and about as neutral as you get.

Read some more, and you'll see how bad these diseases were ( and will be again, if you get your way )

[winyanstaz]

79. I will spell it out for you real slooowly so you can understand...

NO ONE is against all vaccines in any post I have seen in here...
It is this PARTICULAR vaccine that we do not trust and for damned good reason.
It is also this government that is PUSHING this unsafe vaccine that makes people nervious.
It is sheeple like you that let them get away with it.
You want the shot..YOU take it...
Keep your frikking paws and laws off my body.
thanks.

[Confusious]

83. I don't believe that

"It is also this government that is PUSHING this unsafe vaccine that makes people nervious."

10 million doses given with no adverse effects is unsafe?

The gov'ment is also hiding aliens too?

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. Yep, what do you think Area 51 is for SHEESH

:hi:

We come for you leaders!!!!!

[winyanstaz]

119. aliens? where the hell did you get aliens out of this conversation...

Wait..don't answer that...sheesh

[StarryNite]

85. And I will add

that what about future vaccines? What happens when they decide another one should be on the mandatory list or you get no health care without it? And what if the next one hasn't been tested? For these anti-choicers to let the government choose for them is one thing but some of us prefer to make our own choices.

[Confusious]

88. Another person for overturning the indoor smoking laws

Glad you're on the bandwagon. Their body their "choice"


welcome aboard!

HORAY!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

96. Do you think the UK government is in on it as well? They're having outbreaks too among unvaccinated

kids.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

98. Also, the vaccination schedule for measles has the first shot between 12 and 15 mos. So baby would

not have had the immunization.

[LeftishBrit]

121. Young babies cannot be vaccinated against some diseases. Many vaccines don't work for small babies

And babies are at their most vulnerable to some of the diseases when they're very young. Even if they survive, they can be permanently affected. I know someone who is seriously disabled because she got whooping cough at the age of one week.

'From some government lab' - are you believing the propaganda from the right-wing monsters who want to scare people away from supporting government-provided health care?

[StarryNite]

68. Do what you want with your body

but don't try to expect everybody else to go along with what you say. It's not your choice when it comes to other people. And what if the next round of vaccines is something you don't agree with? If that's possible because I have a feeling if the government told you to jump off a cliff you would.

[Confusious]

75. No, I read

Something you might try. About history. and the ways smallpox, rubella, typhus, tuberculosis effected our present.

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. Here is a free clue

if we have epidemic disease and the way to control it is through vaccinations... and YOU HAPPEN TO LIVE IN THE AREA... here is what them evil guv'ment types can do... (and right now they can, we have a health care emergency declaration by the way)

1.- Mandatory Quarantines.
2.- Mandatory Vaccinations.
3.- Martial Law.

Yes, the authority is there dear...

Oh there is more.

Close down of that particular town or even city. Nobody comes in, nobody leaves.

The ignorance is just damn right scary and astounding.

Oh and in case you wonder... this been done.

See 1918... no, not number two, they didn't exist... but everything else yes

Oh the Polio of the 1950s... WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK THE SALK VACCINE WAS MANDATORY?

Now for you, this choice includes going back to 1775 and ignoring the basic science of health and disease we have learned since. Perhaps we should go back to leeches too... I mean we need to bring the humors of the body back in balance...

And yes, you are ignorant... and by choice... not like the info is absent or not present.

Oh and if you think this is a personal attack, so be it Anti vaxer loons are up there with Alex Jones Coast to Coast libertarian idiots.

[StarryNite]

65. I agree

it's people who turn their body willingly over to the government that are truly frightening. I wonder if they would be singing this same song if bush was still in power?

[nadinbrzezinski]

108. Given those of us in public health understand

this little thing called epidemic disease... and pandemics... yes.

I would. Public health is public health is public health... Ignorance is also ignorance...

[Odin2005]

67. People don't have a right to be Typhoid Marys.

If the anti-vaxers don't like that then too damn bad.

[StarryNite]

70. The government

should not be allowed to own our bodies.

If the anti-choicers don't like it, then it's just too damn bad.

[Odin2005]

77. Then I guess we should never have medical quarantines, either!

Let infected people go around making everyone sick! Respect for other people's health is FASCISM!!! :sarcasm:

[Posteritatis]

87. Or health and safety acts in general. (nt)

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. Yep some folks REALLY want to go back to 1775

that was the last year that vaccines were not used.

Then came this falla by the name of Jenner...

You really want to go to that world? So for full effect, let's have the two labs that still have it release the Smallpox... after all we all will be fine....

:sarcasm:

This lack of understanding of science is no longer astounding... par for the course.

[KamaAina]

102. Is this a trustworthy source?

I can't find anything else out there that says that mandatory vaccinations are part of HCR. Increased access to vaccines, yes -- not at all the same thing.

[StarryNite]

107. I'm having that same problem.

I've been looking and looking and so far I've found nothing else. This is winding up on YouTube and I would really like to know if it's credible. And yes, I'm the one that posted it but I am also in search of the truth. I want to know if it's just fear mongering or something we should really be concerned about.

[philly_bob]

104. I don't like Mandatory anything...

It's a last resort public policy. Are you really willing to deny health care or put in jail the X% of rugged individualists and health nuts who say no vaccines.

On the other hand, I do think that when we have good vaccines, everybody should have one. But I'd rather rely on persuasion than force or compulsion.

[Confusious]

109. If it comes to an epidemic

I will gladly pick up a pitchfork and herd them into the forest. They can be rugged and sick somewhere else.

[LeftishBrit]

131. I agree - except in extreme cases, vaccines should be universally available, not compulsory

However, what bothers me, is that a lot of the campaigns are against the government *providing* all or some vaccines at all. If the government does not provide the vaccines, then poorer people are mandated *not* to have them! In the USA, moreover, it appears that a lot of the campaigns are linked to general opposition to government provision of health care. If people want to be rugged individualists for themselves, then (within certain extreme limits) that is fine; but they should not impose rugged individualism on the population as a whole. Which at first sounds like a contradiction in terms, but isn't: if health care is not universally provided, then the poor are mandated *not* to have it.

[Ms. Toad]

110. Has anyone even bothered to fact check this?

I don't believe the CDC gets to dictate access to health care, and I don't recall anything in any of the bills addressing vaccination status as a prerequisite to access to health care (or access to insurance, for that matter).

Immunizations are required as part of the minimum services - but required to be provided/paid for does not mean mandatory.

...the site does appear to be an insurance industry site - so (false) scare tactics would not surprise me.

[Egnever]

113. Of course not

Its total propaganda taken straight from an insurance companies website. Why in the world would anyone question that?

This place gets dumber by the day.

[Egnever]

112. Oh my god! from an insurance companies website no less

WTF is wrong with you people.

:banghead:

[Posteritatis]

116. But, see, it reinforces their personal opinions, therefore the source doesn't matter!

There's a reason most people throwing links around as "proof" of especially kooky views tend to be limited to citing blogs or Youtube videos or organizations that have every reason to be spewing FUD.

[xchrom]

115. if you don't want to be a part of society then please go somewhere there is none.

you're a danger to every one else who is rational.

HOWEVER thanks for the entertainment value of watching the ignorant crash and burn.

[StarryNite]

122. Well that was a totally

ignorant thing for a person to say. So if everybody doesn't agree with you and your stance then we should go elsewhere? Are you an American or are you a citizen of another country that will not allow people to question authority?

[LeftishBrit]

123. Now *there's* an unbiased source with no likely profit motive!

'Our mission is to provide to you the continual evolution of added resources allowing you to compare rates of multiple insurance companies to make an educated decision to purchase insurance through one-stop online shopping. We have trusted affiliate insurance providers eager to get you a quote within about 15 minutes.'

Wow, I can't imagine that a site like *that* would try to turn people against government-provided health care!

[StarryNite]

124. LOL!

I'm actually trying to find another source for what the CDC is supposedly calling for. So far I've found nothing else. I wonder if the CDC could be contacted by the average person? I doubt it but I'm going to see if there's a way.

[backwoodsbob]

128. yeah lets see how that flies

can we say repuke sweep in 2010?

[Spider Jerusalem]

132. Vaccinations need to be mandatory, sorry

Google 'herd immunity' to see why.

[winyanstaz]

133. a cow has no choice as to what the farmer sticks in their body....

Human beings should have a choice.

[bralessforthelord]

134. It's warm and fuzzy fascism...no more, no less

and disgustingly promoted by shills on DU! Vomitorium City, man!