Should we keep bashing Democratic office holders?

[NJmaverick]

Seems the Republican party is not nearly as dead as many of the bashers have claimed.

[stray cat]

1. Only some really naive progressives don't get the fact that people other than themselves vote

of course the repubs were not dead nor are the dems worshipped for competence :hi:

[bottomofthehill]

2. i think it is a great idea

and pretty soon we will have a republican senate. house and president, just like in 2000, that worked out really well for the country

[NJmaverick]

4. It all depends on their ability to see the error of their ways

[Tesha]

7. Bingo! Full marks! (NT)

[Le Taz Hot]

3. Why no.

Because they have a D next to their name, they are sacrosanct and should never ever be questioned or held accountable. :sarcasm: :eyes:

[NJmaverick]

6. Yes those guys with the R next to their name are much better

glad to see you hide behind sarcasm and eye rolling instead of learning from your mistakes.

[Le Taz Hot]

12. Oh, please.

As much as you would like to make it so, D & R are not the only choices. We can also fight to get better candidates and quit letting the Milquegoast Wing of the Democratic Party choose the candidates for us. Honestly, only Pod People vote for people because they have the correct letter next to their name. Personally, I prefer independent thought. :shrug:

[NJmaverick]

13. How many non Ds or Rs hold pulbic office????????

your are offering a false choice. The worst Dem is still superior to the best Repuke

[Le Taz Hot]

19. LOL!

No, the major political parties are giving YOU false choices. Let's see, for the primaries, should I vote for Corporate Whore #1, Corporate Whore #2 or Corporate Whore #3? The Party doesn't care who actually wins because they're all the same candidate. Get it? Ideologically, Hillary was no different than Obama. The only difference was in the color of the pom poms. The game is rigged and not in our favor. What the Party Faithful CAN do is have more input as to what candidates are running and when The Party comes in and tries to derail your candidate because he/she isn't THEIR candidate, you have to stand firm and find backing for that candidate. Doing anything else will continue to give you the choice of voting for Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum and if you're willing to settle for that then mediocrity is the best you can hope for.

[NJmaverick]

25. So you claim, but real world has more impact that your fantasy wishes

[PVnRT]

23. Critical thinking bad! Mindless worship good!

NJMaverick has spoken.

[NJmaverick]

27. Shame you are incapable of the sort of critical thinking

that would allow you to see the world as it really is, rather than your fantasy version

[PVnRT]

46. So what is the real world?

Selling out to corporate interests and bending over backwards for the conservative elements of society.

Shameful that you have no ideals of your own, short of some dipshit sports mentality that if your team wins, everything is wonderful.

[NJmaverick]

52. The real world is where the GOP is making a come back

that has been aided by those that are incapable of realizing that attacking one's own party is a bad thing

[PVnRT]

58. I didn't realize DU and blogs were all that influential

Oh wait. They're not, or else we'd be out of Iraq and Afghanistan and be voting on single-payer universal health care next week.

It's really too bad that party label is the only thing that matters to you.

[Arkana]

38. To hold them accountable is one thing

To trash them just for the sake of appearing unbiased is quite another.

[KharmaTrain]

5. Let The GOOP Think They're On The Comeback...

Nope, they're not dead...their circular firing squads haven't quite finished the job. But they're well on the way.

Some Democrats need to be challenged...I'm fully supportive of Joe Sustak and hope he drives Magic Bullet Arlen into retirement next year.

The bottom line is as long as the rushpublicans are so far off the right wing edge, they won't be able to win nationally.

[NJmaverick]

8. They are doing more than THINKING

I am now dealing with a nut job GOP Governor, so it's FAR more than THINKING

[KharmaTrain]

18. Now The State's Financial Mess Is His Problem...

Sorry the Democrats stayed home yesterday rather than support Corzine...but I'd be more concerned if they had elected a rushpublican Senator or Congresscritter who could hurt the entire country.

Christie will have to look over this shoulder...and still has some ethical clouds hanging that could hurt him down the road. Remember, he avoided bringing in the real wingnuts, so he knows he can't go too far off the deep end.

[TommyO]

9. It's par for the course today

Vote for Corzine, vote for Corzine, but when he loses, trash him mercilessly.

[NJmaverick]

10. Corzine was an arrogant ASS. I wouldn't bash him before he lost

because even a bad Democrat is superior to the best republican

[rurallib]

11. Yes, Yes , Yes - let them do whatever they want in office

do not hold their feet to the fire to make sure that they run a competent government.
Let them do what they want. They also can act like Repugs while in office.

The RepubliKlans are a top-down the leaders tell the followers what to think and what to do organization.
The Dems are what their name implies. The people in this case for the most part what they want the leaders to do. It is messy, but we get better gummint that way

[NJmaverick]

14. Burning candidates with your fire only paves the way for Repuke control

[rurallib]

20. Sorry, but holding them accountable is not burning them

I will agree that some of the language used is over the top.
When our district was finally won by a Dem after 30 years, I told our new rep that he could expect me to hold his feet to the fire. He said that is what he expects and wants.
I believe that if we do our part as citizens and hold them accountable, they will be re-elected for doing a good job.
However the problem lies in the fact that Repugs follow different rules which includes promoting their person no matter what - top-down leadership.
And some dems see short term success for that strategy and think we should emulate it.

[NJmaverick]

26. sorry but when there are people on the left bashing Dems as bad or worse than those on the right

The ONLY thing that is going to happen is the GOP will move right in.

[Dogmudgeon]

15. Ideological Purity - it worked so well for Doug Hoffman!

--d!

[NJmaverick]

16. They say results speak louder than ivory tower ideas

[SIMPLYB1980]

17. +100

:thumbsup:

[Peacetrain]

21. Here is the problem with the purity argument...

When you start having this litmus test of are you liberal enough or on the other side. conservative enough.. you start getting a narrow definition of what those words mean.. and then you end up with things like the palin group.

And then when the losses do come in.. and they do.. they are the ones that scream the loudest like scalded cats.

No matter how "pure" you want your party to be in theory.. in the real world, people come in all sizes shapes warts.. and if I can get them on board with me with 80% plus, I can many times coax the other 20%.

[NJmaverick]

28. Very very very well said!!!!!

:applause:

[Enthusiast]

87. My point is this.

The Palin group is wrong on the issues. They are ideologically way wrong on the issues. So this is an apples and oranges comparison.

Expecting Democrats to vote the interests of their constituents is hardly a strong litmus test. Why shouldn't the electorate expect their candidates to vote their interests? Democrats in support of the PUBLIC OPTION are correct. Those that vote against it are voting to protect the interests of the insurance industry. Huge difference. According to polls, support for the PUBLIC OPTION is doing the people's will.

Democrats that want my vote will be environmentally minded, favor organized labor, support civil rights for EVERYONE and support health care fairness. If that is a litmus test, so be it.

[mmonk]

22. We should tell the truth.

And those of us that do tell the truth that some elected Democrats side with Republicans or Republican theories have not claimed the Republicans are dead. In fact, they seem to win even when they lose.

[PVnRT]

24. No. Liberals must SHUT THE FUCK UP and provide mindless support

We must support corporatists and moderates, because it's all about "our side" winning, so that they can get in office and proceed to do absolutely fucking nothing but compromise with a Republican minority.

[NJmaverick]

29. The GOP says keep doing what you are doing

it's working out quite well for them

[opihimoimoi]

30. No shit....generalizing is so pub...

[PVnRT]

47. They should thank you and your DLC buddies

for doing their best to erode the differences between the parties and hamstring Obama's agenda.

[treestar]

97. Still better than Repukes in office and in a majority

Even if what you posted were not a rank exaggeration, why have Repukes in office? unless you can make a credible effort for a candidate further to the left, it's useless.

This country still have a lot of morans in it - don't act as if there really are a lot of progressives.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. God forbid that we should politicians accountable in a democracy.

We should just sing "Happy Days are Here Again" and look the other way when they fuck up.

[NJmaverick]

34. Yeah getting Republicans elected is much better

:eyes:

[wordpix]

36. when Dens act like repukes, what's the difference? see my post below

[NJmaverick]

37. HUGE difference

the worst Dem is still better than the best Repuke

[wordpix]

39. not in my town and local politics - the Dems were just as bad on major town issues

[NJmaverick]

41. At the local level there is little difference in political parties

it's only when they get higher does the differences start to show.

[wordpix]

43. there IS a difference if the local DTC wants to make one

in the case of my hometown, the DTC did not bother. This does not bode well for getting rid of Lieberman.

[Sebastian Doyle]

70. The voters in VA and NJ don't agree with you

They chose the admitted Repukes over the "Democrats" who acted like Repukes.

Meanwhile, the Republicans in a New York district OWNED by Republicans since the fucking Civil War, rejected the extremist neocon candidate that their party left them stuck with.

[NJmaverick]

72. Corzine acted like a repuke?!?!??!!??!

do you have a clue as to what goes on in the real world?

[Sebastian Doyle]

74. Corzine was DLC tool and a Goddamn Sucks CEO

Neither of those criminal organizations represent "the real world".

[NJmaverick]

76. If that's what you think, you are truly clueless

[Enthusiast]

89. Not necessarily.

A newly elected Democrat that turns out to be mostly interested in protecting corporate interests at the expense of the American People are as bad as a Republican. In the ranks of elected Democrats there are numerous example of these. Otherwise health care reform with a robust PUBLIC OPTION would be sailing through the legislative process.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

45. Politicians have to earn votes, not have them awarded to them because of party.

The "not as bad" argument is what is costing the Democrats elections.

[NJmaverick]

51. What's costing them elections is the lack of support from the left

the right learned a long time ago not to take down their own people. That's why 20% of the population has managed to rule our Country

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

53. The support of the left is available. But, they have to earn it, not count on it.

[NJmaverick]

54. It's at a price that costs them the votes from the rest

that's not how it's work. Why is the right so much smarter than the left when it comes to these basic facts of life?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

56. If they don't give the voters a reason to vote for them they don't get the votes.

That's a basic fact of life. They play to the right and expect the left to support them, which is what costs them the votes of the left. They make their choice and have to live with, or die with, it.

[NJmaverick]

57. What happens is the left shoots everyone in the foot and we are stuck with Repuke leadership

that's a basic fact you refuse to accept.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

59. What happens if the politicians don't go after the left's vote? They lose them.

And, they lose the elections. That's politics. If they want the left's votes they have to earn them. That's democracy.

[NJmaverick]

62. The right is smart enough to know that their people need to appeal to more than just themselves

that's the thing that so many on the left fail to understand.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

64. Yeah. And, that's what Thomas Jefferson talks about.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." --John Quincy Adams

[Raineyb]

79. Only they don't pretend to appeal to us and they will just ram their agenda down

the throats of anyone who doesn't agree with them. Our Democrats PRETEND to be interested in our issues then make lame ass excuses such as "we don't have enough votes" when they're in the majority to make excuses for not actually doing much for the rest of us.

And tools like you make excuses and have the nerve to try to make people feel bad for not wanting to support people who don't do anything for us.

I certainly hope they're giving you a good salary for the shilling you're doing. I'd hate to think you were whoring for the DLC for free.

[NJmaverick]

82. Your accusations are pathetic. I guess when your views are not supported by facts or reality

these sort of flights of fancy are to be expected.:eyes:

[Raineyb]

85. Your whoring is pathetic. What color is the sky in the make believe world

you live in?

You are the one who are trying to deny people the right to use their vote as they see fit in some notion that the party always comes first. That you REFUSE to see that the people are the ones with the rights and not the party would be absolutely pathetic if it weren't so dangerous.

You find my accusations pathetic? Where the fuck have you been for the entire Bush administration? Have you been hiding under a rock where you don't see how the Republicans and the Democrats who aid and abet them passed fairly odious laws?

You're as bad as any freeper, completely divorced from reality.

[NJmaverick]

91. It's your failure to support the Dems that made the Bush adminstration a reality

once you come to grips with that truth, we will all be better off.

[Raineyb]

95. I am under no obligation to support representatives who betray me

Once you get over your sense of entitlement we'll all be a hell of a lot better off.

I didn't vote for Bush and if Gore didn't convince enough people to vote for him that would be Gore's fault not mine.

Fuck you for blaming Bush on people who didn't vote for him instead of blaming those who actually VOTED for him.

[Raineyb]

68. Once again you act on the premise that politicians are ENTITLED to votes

when in actuality they have to earn it. You should be blaming those who didn't bother to earn the votes of their own base rather than blaming those who refuse to vote for a candidate who hasn't done anything for them.

Frankly, your sense of entitlement is both offensive and undemocratic.

[NJmaverick]

71. The premise is even a poor Democrat is superior to the best Republican

The ONLY thing offensive if your failure to grasp reality is hurting ALL Americans

[Raineyb]

78. Your inability to face reality is hurting Americans.

This constant bullshit fear mongering is exactly the ploy the Democrats use to scare people into voting for them by saying "Well a Republican will be worse." Then when they finally get the majority nothing gets passed. Why? Because DEMOCRATS work in concert with Republicans to BLOCK reform. And then they expect us to vote for them again after they've done nothing and members of the caucus actively work against what we want?

I'm sure they expect it because they, like you, have a galling sense of entitlement when it comes to our votes. I'm not going to vote for any old piece of shit because there's a D after their name. If they want my vote they damn sure better do something to earn it. Because I can guarantee that they are working to make sure that they earn every fucking dollar the big time corporate contributors give them. In THAT respect a good number of Democrats are no better than Republicans. I don't vote for Republicans and I don't support Democrats who act like them either.

[NJmaverick]

81. Sorry if the inconvenient truths get in the way of your rants

You seem to have the over whelming sense of entitlement that makes you think the world bends to your will and views. Sadly for you (and eventually us) that's not the way of things. The world is what it is, not what we wish it to be. We can either deal with the reality as best we can or we can make things worse by ignoring the truth and believing things are the way you want them to be.

[Raineyb]

84. You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you.

As a citizen I have the right to use my vote any fucking way I see fit. And that means I will vote for candidates whose platform aligns with mine. In addition, after being elected, should said candidate fail to live up to my standards I have the right to withhold my support when the candidate come up for reelection. The candidate does not have the right to expect any vote he or she has to earn them.

What you fail to realize is that the right in this scenario lies with the voter. The voter has the right to support or not support based on whatever criteria he or she deems fit. YOU have no right to tell them that they don't have the right to withhold support from a candidate who isn't fitting their criteria for support. In fact, YOU are the one doing damage because it is YOU and others of your ilk who try to bully, cajole, and guilt people into not voting their conscience in order to suck up to a party that only gives lip service to the wants and needs of the people. Because YOU refuse to hold any politician's feet to the fire you allow them to do whatever the fuck they want and to hell with the voters. YOU are the problem not those who dare vote their conscience.

The party is suppose to bend to the people not the other way around. As long as you put the party first they will continue to do what they do now, gather more power but never use it to do a damn thing for the people.

The party is not sacrosanct and until you realize that you will continue to exist in a world of your own where reality need not bother you with small things like facts and where people who vote their conscience are the villains when it's the whores (all apologies to sex workers) who are the problem.

[NJmaverick]

93. I know the world for what it is, not your fantasy version

sadly you will continue to undermine the Democratic party and help the GOP.

[Raineyb]

96. The one living in the fantasy world is you.

Apparently you think consequences are for everyone BUT politicians.

Good luck with that bullshit.

[treestar]

98. Yeah, it's more fun holding them accountable

But then when they are in office, they do things that these own-party bashers would find even more horrifying. Amazing they've already forgotten the Bush Administration.

[wordpix]

40. +1

[dysfunctional press]

32. no- we should vote them out in favor of more progressive candidates.

[NJmaverick]

35. Pretty sure Christie is not more progressive than Corzine

[Raineyb]

69. If Corzine had been primaried there could have been a more progressive

candidate.

What part of that don't you get? Oh right, I forgot the politicians are entitled to our votes and we're not entitled to withhold our support for politicians who don't do right by us.

[NJmaverick]

73. Corzine was a progressive, which is the part you don't get

perhaps a little more open mindedness and less condescension:eyes:

[Sebastian Doyle]

75. Progressives don't work for Goddamn Sucks.

end of story.

[NJmaverick]

77. LOL! With logic like that, I can see why your positions are messed up

[Enthusiast]

90. I don't want any Democrats

that won't support effective reform of the financial services industry. Just having a D beside their name doesn't make them one of the good guys.

[dysfunctional press]

104. then more people should have turned out to vote for corzine.

(that's kind of how elections work).

:eyes:

[wordpix]

33. when they act like Repukes, YES - case in point, my Connecticut hometown

This is a mostly repuke town that used to be mostly Dem. I have been heavily involved in town politics for several years, particularly concerning a public schools improvement project in an environmentally sensitive area. For five years, I wrote and spoke to all the boards and commissions involved (most headed by repukes) about the particulars of this project, including legal, financial and environmental issues, poor planning, energy inefficiency, documented site violations, lack of inspections for new construction--- which costs a lot when you have to redo shoddy work---- and exceeding the voter-approved cap on the cost of the project.

The upshot was, I was ignored on every issue. I can always expect that from the repukes, but even the Dems on the committees and boards mostly remained silent when I brought up these issues (backed up by minutes and official statements). Dems just did not want to criticize a town project ---and a Dem was the treasurer of the school bldg. comm---other Dems did not want to hold him accountable. A Dem friend of mine with whom I watchdogged this project ended up voting for repubs, she was so disgusted. :puke:

As for the election, repukes smashed the Dems worse than ever. We kept ONE seat on ONE town board and lost lots of them.

Repugs will vote repug and when Dems act like repugs, the Dem base just won't vote for them. THAT is the lesson of this election.

[RedCloud]

42. The repugs armed their fanatics and they went to vote.

Totals were very low in Va, enabling their victory over a blue dog candidate. Why should we work for suckers who will just stab us in the back the first chance they get?

[TokenQueer]

44. What democrats?

In Virginia we had to choose between a republican (Deeds) and a christian whack-job (McDonnell). Please someone, show me a democrat.

[BurtWorm]

48. Bash the ones who deserve to be bashed.

Like Stupak and Bayh and Lincoln and the Nelson brothers.

[merh]

49. Yes it is.

The dems that were the candidates were bad leaders or poor politicians.

People voted for the best candidate and not the party.

[freddie mertz]

50. Yes, if they suck and do not serve the people. (nt)

[NJmaverick]

55. Got news for you republicans suck a whole lot worse

how quickly you forget george bush and company

[PVnRT]

60. I guess you prefer Democrats fillibustering health care reform, then

[freddie mertz]

61. So it would seem.

nt

[NJmaverick]

63. The Repukes would be passing bills denying our citizens rights and stealing from the poor

to give to the rich, you prefer that?

[Raineyb]

80. And we'd have Democrats lying down to allow it to happen by not

filibustering or voting for cloture when they know damn well they don't have the votes to stop it. Then tell us "there's nothing we can do."

DEMOCRATS helped get some of the more odious legislation passed like that God-awful Bankruptcy "reform" bill. Are we supposed to support more of that shit?

[NJmaverick]

83. Democrats would have more back bone if you gave them some support

and a reason not to be so fearful (like you have their backs). The right has figured this out, why can't you?

[Raineyb]

88. Excuse you but people like us have been telling them that we'd have their

backs. And what they do is stab us as soon as our back is to them.

You think people haven't been saying "WE want a single payer system?" Or "Don't vote for the Patriot act!" or "Don't pass that God-awful Bankruptcy bill?" People have! And what do the pols do? They come up with some lame ass excuse as to why they voted in opposition to what the people wanted. They get pissed that you dare get angry with them for giving you the back of their hand, and then when election time comes they come begging for your money and support. And why do they do this? Because people like you will give them money and votes no matter what the hell they do to the point where the politicians feel as though they're entitled to everything they have as opposed to having their position by the graces of their voters.

And you think we should continue to indulge in such fantastical nonsense? You keep that up and you'll keep getting the same thing, Democrats who say all the right things come election time but will continue to ignore you the rest of the time.

Thanks but no thanks, I want better than that.

[jonnyblitz]

99. what makes you so damn sure the DEMs are that much

different? it somtimes seems to me like Bush never left the whitehouse. :shrug:

[wordpix]

65. it's true, we can't distinguish repubs from dems when they act like corporate whores

and I'm NOT apologizing for that :evilgrin:

[StarfarerBill]

66. We should continue to hold their feet to the fire, yes.

Democrat or Republican, their words, actions, and misdeeds are mostly done in our name, and it is we who benefit or suffer from what they say and do. They are our elected servants, not vice versa.

[NJmaverick]

67. A burnt candidate is an unsuccessful candidate

[StarfarerBill]

94. Not if they don't want to get burned again.

[Raineyb]

86. Criticism is NOT bashing.

-1 for sophistry.

[NJmaverick]

100. Who needs Glenn Beck or Rush?

the Dems have you. You're just as nasty to Dems and as damaging as they are.

[Raineyb]

103. Unlike you I don't need any fucking body doing my thinking for me

When someone polishes a turd and tries to hand it to me I recognize it as a turd and reject it. You apparently take said turn and pretend it is ice cream.

You obviously don't get it. When the Democrats do the right thing I say so. But I'll be damned if they're going to do the wrong thing while I sit by and say nothing. I am not going to allow the likes of you to bully me into silence because the truth does not vibe with your cheer-leading.

Freepers sit by and cheer for everything that's done because one of theirs did it. I am interested in what's right and when Democrats do the right thing I say so. What they're doing with health care reform is NOT the right thing and it's a big enough deal to consider withholding my support down the line. Now if the concept of someone having principles bothers you that's too damn bad. You and the DLC can suck it up and shut the fuck up about it while you're at it. Tell your corporate masters to piss off. The Democratic party is not entitled to my vote just because they have a D after their name. They cannot do the wrong thing and expect me to just vote for them.

You've obviously not learned a bloody thing from what happened in VA on Tuesday did you?

You think I'm the same as Beck or Limpballs? Fuck you and the DLC whore house you came from. YOU are more damaging than any dissenter. Sycophants always block actual progress because they're too fucking cowardly to say what's really wrong and only tell those in power what they want to hear.

"Yes sir I'll vote for you whatever you do I don't' have any standards"

Fuck that noise! MY vote cannot be taken for granted. THAT'S what meant by holding the politicians feet to the fire; a concept with which you are apparently unaware.

[depakid]

92. Nah, we should simply let them be as corrupt as they can and push failed rightwing policies

onto everyone.

That's show the Republicans.

[NJmaverick]

101. What you fail to appreciate is the Republican do it far worse

and what you are doing is helping get Repukes elected

[Raineyb]

102. That threat means dick when the Democrats behave like Republicans

And any Blue-Cross dog who joins in a filibuster or refuses to back even a decent public option is behaving like a Republican where it counts and we're under no obligation to reelect such a clown.

When will it penetrate that these politicians have to earn the people's vote? THEY ARE NOT ENTITLED TO IT!