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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) |
bluestateguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 12:54 AM Original message |
We just can't win gay marriage elections |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 12:55 AM Response to Original message |
1. honestly i think its just the word marraige, if you took that word out |
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GreenPartyVoter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 12:56 AM Response to Reply #1 |
3. Yes, it's a referendum on the word and whether it's only for religious people to define it. |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 12:59 AM Response to Reply #3 |
5. whether you like it or not, society as a whole defines it the same as the religious folk |
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Ms. Toad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:07 AM Response to Reply #1 |
11. It is not just a word. |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:12 AM Response to Reply #11 |
14. the point being that it will take decades anyway to get the votes |
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imdjh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:16 AM Response to Reply #14 |
21. They aren't that stupid. They will fight that, even though they imply that they won't. |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:20 AM Response to Reply #21 |
23. and they are the minority of the people who vote no on the ballots |
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sabrina 1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:26 AM Response to Reply #21 |
25. Well, I know it's not much consolation |
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theHandpuppet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 07:09 AM Response to Reply #21 |
44. Yep, the anti-choice crowd does the same thing |
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theHandpuppet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 07:13 AM Response to Reply #21 |
45. Exactly. Virginia being a prime example. |
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laconicsax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 02:07 AM Response to Reply #14 |
32. Segregation is unacceptable. eom |
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Ms. Toad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 08:30 AM Response to Reply #14 |
49. Even if they passed tomorrow |
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tavalon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 02:50 AM Response to Reply #11 |
35. I'm wondering why America makes such a big deal about the separation of church and state |
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vadawg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 02:51 AM Response to Reply #35 |
36. thats why we should seperate them, have the civil side do a contract |
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tavalon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 02:53 AM Response to Reply #36 |
38. I completely agree with you, btw |
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ieoeja (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 10:12 AM Response to Reply #36 |
58. That is already what happens. |
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Ms. Toad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 08:48 AM Response to Reply #35 |
51. It's not quite as much a mixture as it seems. |
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theHandpuppet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 06:51 AM Response to Reply #11 |
40. Thank you, Ms. Toad |
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tsuki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 07:22 AM Response to Reply #11 |
46. What is in a "word"? |
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Ms. Toad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 08:12 AM Response to Reply #46 |
47. I am speaking of the word in connection with legal status. |
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tsuki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 10:58 AM Response to Reply #47 |
69. Your suspicion is incorrect. My Mother believed that if I did not |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 10:42 AM Response to Reply #11 |
64. "'Domestic Partners' shall have all the rights, privileges, and responsibilities under the law... |
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Ms. Toad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 11:39 AM Response to Reply #64 |
74. That only works reasonably well within the state which sponsored it. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 12:01 PM Response to Reply #74 |
76. The issue you're speaking on turns on Full Faith and Credit, not the characterization of the union |
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Ms. Toad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 12:21 PM Response to Reply #76 |
78. And the problems you are suggesting |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 12:36 PM Response to Reply #78 |
79. "reciprocity in other states..." is what "Full Faith and Credit" means... |
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Ms. Toad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 02:51 PM Response to Reply #79 |
81. Yes and no. |
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NMMNG (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:26 AM Response to Reply #1 |
28. The same assholes |
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laconicsax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:53 AM Response to Reply #1 |
30. No. |
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regnaD kciN (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 02:18 AM Response to Reply #1 |
34. Well... |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 09:06 AM Response to Reply #1 |
52. It's not a "word." It's a question: are we REALLY equal or just sorta-kinda? |
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gatorboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 09:48 AM Response to Reply #1 |
57. "let's just call it an interracial civil union." |
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VMI Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 12:56 AM Response to Original message |
2. Our own President is against it. |
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SammyWinstonJack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:15 AM Response to Reply #2 |
20. Yes where now? |
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Jennicut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 12:57 AM Response to Original message |
4. My parents and their friends are all against it. My friends are all for it. |
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:01 AM Response to Original message |
6. What's sad is the Maine proposal wasn't forcing anyone/any group to marry people.... |
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DaveinMD (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:01 AM Response to Original message |
7. harder in midterms |
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imdjh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:11 AM Response to Reply #7 |
12. We lost California with Obama on the ticket. |
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Davis_X_Machina (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:04 AM Response to Original message |
8. Note that both tax-reduction referenda... |
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Dogmudgeon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:05 AM Response to Original message |
9. A modest change of tactics |
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imdjh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:13 AM Response to Reply #9 |
15. I'm thinking baseball bats at the moment. Too extreme? |
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Dogmudgeon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:26 AM Response to Reply #15 |
27. We still haven't tried agitprop |
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Cessna Invesco Palin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:06 AM Response to Original message |
10. My mom is a perfect example of this barrier. |
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Hepburn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 10:23 AM Response to Reply #10 |
60. Tell your mom for me ... |
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d_b (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:12 AM Response to Original message |
13. Time is on our side. |
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LostInAnomie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:13 AM Response to Original message |
16. In about 20 years this country is going to be a VERY different place... |
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d_b (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:13 AM Response to Reply #16 |
17. Yea I give it 20 years too |
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imdjh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:26 AM Response to Reply #16 |
26. Take your pick of predictions, but yours assumes a great deal of assimilation of immigrants. |
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Beregond2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:52 AM Response to Reply #26 |
29. Good point. |
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imdjh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 11:28 AM Response to Reply #29 |
73. I assume you are kidding. |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 09:27 AM Response to Reply #26 |
55. Even with immigration, the age divide on same-sex marriage is still immense. |
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imdjh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 11:19 AM Response to Reply #55 |
71. I have little doubt about the inevitability of it, though I wonder if I'll live to see it. |
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krabigirl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 03:10 PM Response to Reply #16 |
83. Yep. Until then, things will suck. We are living in Fundie-land. |
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NoSheep (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:14 AM Response to Original message |
18. Closer than ever before. I have to have hope. |
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JI7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:15 AM Response to Original message |
19. civil rights was won through court battles and legislature, the same will be true of gay marriage |
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liberalpragmatist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:19 AM Response to Original message |
22. Gay marriage legal in 5 states, up from 2 at the beginning of this year |
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Beregond2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:56 AM Response to Reply #22 |
31. Yes, |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:22 AM Response to Original message |
24. Yeats summed up being a liberal thusly: |
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Old and In the Way (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 02:08 AM Response to Original message |
33. The main thrust of the Yes on 1 campaign was- |
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SoCalDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 02:53 AM Response to Original message |
37. Look at the way the ballots are always worded |
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Davis_X_Machina (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 06:25 AM Response to Reply #37 |
39. Maine had a 'people's veto' referendum... |
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quaker bill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 07:02 AM Response to Original message |
41. I am all for same gender marriages |
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Ganja Ninja (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 07:07 AM Response to Original message |
42. Why not try another tact? |
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Stevenmarc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 08:23 AM Response to Reply #42 |
48. Sometimes I wonder |
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Ganja Ninja (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 09:26 AM Response to Reply #48 |
54. A marriage ceremony and a wedding are the same thing. |
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ieoeja (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 10:26 AM Response to Reply #54 |
61. There is no such thing as a marriage ceremony. |
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Ganja Ninja (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 10:46 AM Response to Reply #61 |
65. I'm not talking prohibiting anybody from doing anything. |
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Ms. Toad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 11:57 AM Response to Reply #54 |
75. What you are suggesting is legal nonsense. |
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justiceischeap (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 10:28 AM Response to Reply #48 |
62. Question about your post -- seriously |
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ieoeja (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 10:34 AM Response to Reply #62 |
63. You didn't ask it of me, but you are (virtually) correct. |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 10:53 AM Response to Reply #62 |
66. Marriage isn't really a contract, inasmuch as it binds a third party |
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Ganja Ninja (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 11:02 AM Response to Reply #62 |
70. I'm saying when you go to the county for a license it will say ... |
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Ms. Toad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 12:05 PM Response to Reply #70 |
77. For legal reasons, it needs to say marriage. |
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Ganja Ninja (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 01:01 PM Response to Reply #77 |
80. Well that shoots that down then. n/t |
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ieoeja (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 10:20 AM Response to Reply #42 |
59. Marriage was a legal partnership in Europefor millenia before the Church took responsibility for it. |
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TheKentuckian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 07:08 AM Response to Original message |
43. They've been using this for cycles to GOTV and fire up their base |
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Tesha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 08:40 AM Response to Reply #43 |
50. But it can't be settled at the Federal level because: |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 09:07 AM Response to Original message |
53. Yes, we can. We almost won in California. We almost won in Maine. |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 09:39 AM Response to Original message |
56. The bigots are good at scaring people. |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 10:55 AM Response to Original message |
67. And the nice, young people |
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krabigirl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 03:11 PM Response to Reply #67 |
84. Nope. People under 50 pretty much are not as insane about the whole gay thing, period. |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 10:57 AM Response to Original message |
68. People are too stupid to do the right thing |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 11:20 AM Response to Original message |
72. Gay marriage will win when enough peoples' hearts and minds have been won over |
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krabigirl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 03:09 PM Response to Original message |
82. You're right. We can't. Right now, America is still a backwards, bigoted, religious nation. |
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BlueIris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 03:12 PM Response to Original message |
85. Crap. I accidentally recommended this thread. Oops. |
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Malikshah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-04-09 03:13 PM Response to Original message |
86. Not giving up. Not even waiting for the bigots to die. Will just keep fighting |
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