Dems, you wanna win? GO TO THE LEFT HARDER.

[MinneapolisMatt]

This is my feeling about tonight.

I feel like we are seeing the demise of wishy-washing dems. Why vote for one when you know what you are getting from a repub?

WAKE UP! Enough of the middle of the road crap. Stand firm, stand tall, just take a stand for chrissakes!

If anybody up for re-election wants to "distance themselves" from Obama from now on, you'll be without a job next year.

Chew on that one.

The repubs did us a huge favor tonight. They gave us a clear plan of what we as liberal democrats need to do to win anything: BE OURSELVES.

Any democrat who is worried about re-election next year needs to join forces with Obama NOW and never let go.

[bluethruandthru]

1. I agree with you about going harder to the left but

I don't think you'll find Obama there. He's very much a centrist.

[MinneapolisMatt]

7. I think that if

more dems keep up the pressure on him, they will all join forces and become more progressive as a whole.

[bluethruandthru]

15. I hope so.

We need to put pressure on our congresspeople too. They are the ones who'll have more luck pushing Obama than we will.

[tomp]

34. if he needs pressure to be a progressive...

...he can never actually be a progressive, and he's nobody anybody would want to vote for to represent progressive ideas.

[tblue37]

40. FDR asked his voters to push him to do what he wanted to do but needed

political cover for.

[PVnRT]

42. Good thing DU didn't exist back then

Anyone pushing FDR would have been decried as "bashing" him and "wanting a pony."

[Chan790]

49. ...but but but! I do want a ponie!!!1!!1!! n/m

[debbierlus]

62. Amen to that - frankly the Obama apologists are standing the hell in the way

[creeksneakers2]

66. Standing in the way of what?

Single payer health care? No way that would sell.
We are working on a climate bill. That's going to be a very hard sell. Obama is already working on a ton of new regulations.

There isn't enough money for much more than that. In fact, there's already not enough.

[whathehell]

53. I think we've been doing that.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

56. KEEP IT UP

TRASH THE RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA MACHINE

[defendandprotect]

76. Evidently, he's formerly supported more progressive ideas . . . they move for the $$$$ . . .

and that's on the right -- DLC one poisonous example!

[lxlxlxl]

60. there is no center

Left Right and 'center' do not map on a line. the center is only what gets you reelected. if the same people that showed up last year were still pressuring the white house on things like prosecuting that liar cheney, guantanamo, getting out of afghanistan, and healthcare we would be there already. they need two waves. why are the people that elected barack staying quiet and at home?

[defendandprotect]

77. Right . .. Dems go home/GOP and Churches don't . . . as we can see!!

And the $$$ is on the right --

[defendandprotect]

75. That's worrisome, cause it's half way to the right . . .

the money is on the right -- DLC, etal --

We have to find a way to finance campaigns with ONLY public money.

Grayson advanced an idea the other day, saying that candidates should

be given like $1 for every registered Dem in their area.

I imagine others would have more ideas on how to do this -- but until

we move corporatism out, we're not a democracy.

[polichick]

2. We need to keep pulling Obama to the left too - and away from corporate tools. nt

[FiveGoodMen]

4. I'm not sure we've got any pull with him at all.

We need him to move left, but I don't think he cares.

We'd better pick our next candidate more carefully.

[MinneapolisMatt]

8. I think he does care

but others need to pull their weight and keep him engaged. I think he's up for it.

[FiveGoodMen]

14. Just a short (incomplete) list of things he wouldn't be up to if he cared about any of us

Continued Government Secrecy and Censorship (the torture pictures, for instance)
Continued use of Signing Statements
Continued Warrantless Wiretapping
Continued DADT
Escalated the War in Afghanistan
Promised no prosecutions for war criminals (reversed Nuremberg)
Eying preventive detention
Refused to consider the only health care plan that works
Helping Wall Street at the expense of everyone else

[MinneapolisMatt]

21. While I agree with you

I also think some of this list is going to take more time than 9 months. I really do. We're dealing with years and years of this kind of stuff being built-up, and I think it has to be dismantled very carefully.

[T Wolf]

52. It is not the (lack of) speed with which he is approaching these problems. It is the DIRECTION

he is taking on them that is of concern to liberals.

If he said that he wanted to move toward a single-payer system like the rest of the civilized world but that it would take time and be done in steps, I think that most libs would be more willing to cut him some slack.

Instead, we get platitudes but no real action to move things in the direction we think he should go. That is the discontent, not the lack of progress.

[Jack Sprat]

27. At the pace he is setting

Obama and the Democratic Party are putting 2010's Congressional elections into play. Due to voter apathy if nothing else. He's moved right of the people who helped elect him by far. Collaboration with pharma and side-stepping single payer will haunt he and the Democrats ultimately. 890 billion of public money spent in hopes of bribing private insurance not to raise their rates as rapidly is a catastrophe that will leave a bad impression.

[tomp]

35. add: failure to prosecute bush/cheney, inc.

[Hannah Bell]

30. "we" didn't pick him. chicago money did.

[defendandprotect]

78. You can bet he'll be back looking for $$$$ soon --

[ChiciB1]

55. I Certainly Agree With You polichick... Perhaps Because I AM A LIBERAL

AND probably more to the left than some, I'm not seeing the "left" side of Obama very much! For months, those of us to the left of him have been attacked over and over, but I stand my ground.

I usually like the "kill 'em with kindness" message to prevail, but with Repukes it doesn't seem to work! It's a nice thought, and great gesture to reach across the aisle, but to me this approach JUST AIN'T WORKING! To cater to Olympia Snowe & the Blue Dogs is pulling the Democratic Party down. Kind of like tip-toeing through the tulips and worrying about Blue Dogs for support looks like a losing battle! If they can't stand up and be Democrats, and support their President then what good are they? Does the Party really need people like these when you have to worry all the time about "how" they may vote because they want to get re-elected? I'd bet that there just might be a few more left leaning candidates who would gladly run against a Blue Dog, IF GIVEN the support of the DLC and the money from the people at the top! Rahm could light a fire if HE WANTED TOO! I don't doubt his capabilities, I just wonder where his loyalties lie. Electing "someone" just because they have a (D) behind their name does NO GOOD if you have to kiss ass with them all the time!

Of course I could be dreaming, but it's those Democrats who have really irked me of late! They don't HAVE to be super left, but at least come to the middle and give us HELP!! The splintering is going to become more of a problem than a plus!

JMHO!!

[imdjh]

3. I think that's a bit broad. More accurate to say, "do something Democratic"

[MinneapolisMatt]

6. I can agree with that.

:hi:

[Orwellian_Ghost]

5. Not sure

where you got the impression Obama is even mildly veering leftwards. He's always been in the squishy middle and considered Paul Wellstone "a gadfly" for Wellstone's principled positions.

Obama "loves the free market" and this is in no way in keeping with the left.

[MinneapolisMatt]

9. but as the leader of the democratic party

he can't just ignore democrats behaving more progressively. He has to play his role somewhat cautiously (as we've seen with health care), but he certainly knows when to strike at the right moment.

[inna]

57. out of curiousity, i found the original article in which Obama was quoted referring to Wellstone as

"a gadfly".

I first read this article over a year ago, but it was quite interesting to revisit it now for some insights.

http://davidsirota.com/index.php/mr-obama-goes-to-washington/

Obama’s deference to these boundaries was hammered home to me when our discussion touched on the late Senator Paul Wellstone. Obama said the progressive champion was “magnificent.” He also gently but dismissively labeled Wellstone as merely a “gadfly,” in a tone laced with contempt for the senator who, for instance, almost single-handedly prevented passage of the bankruptcy bill for years over the objections of both parties. This clarified Obama’s support for the Hamilton Project, an organization formed by Citigroup chair Robert Rubin and other Wall Street Democrats to fight back against growing populist outrage within the party. And I understood why Beltway publications and think tanks have heaped praise on Obama and want him to run for President. It’s because he has shown a rare ability to mix charisma and deference to the establishment.

[defendandprotect]

79. Interesting . . .if not sad, however --

[KharmaTrain]

10. These Elections Are On Local Issues...

The corporate media and the GOOP would love it to mean something. Did Warner winning in Virginia portend for the fall of the booosh regime in 2004? Hardly. Turn out is low and far from a reflection of anything that is going on in Washington. In many cases, the state problems are a byproduct of the booosh years...cutting taxes to the rich that created massive defecits that Corzine had to deal with.

If anything, the GOOP is set up for a massive bloodletting next spring as the teabaggers think they're the "future" of the GOOP...and will pull their corrupt party further off the political abyss.

Tip O'Neill's words of all politics are local is specifically the case tonight and those who want to read more into it than that are dreaming.

[Kablooie]

11. And in Freeper land they are saying, " You wanna win? GO TO THE RIGHT HARDER."

Seems we all see things in black or white nowadays?

I like shades of gray better.

[FatDave]

20. But there's a big difference you are not taking into account.

That is where the electorate currently is, and it is to the left of most elected democrats. The people want strong health care reform. Poll after poll has showed this. In 2006 and 2008, progressive candidates won by wider margins. Obama campaigned to the left of what he's delivered, and he won the election with a clear mandate.

Moving a bit left is a winning strategy for democrats. Moving farther right (and there's not much farther to go, really) is a losing strategy for republicans.

[Kablooie]

29. There's the other difference also ... they are complete idiots. We are only partially idiots.

[jeff47]

65. Shockingly enough, the parties are different

The D's need to move to the left because they've spent the last 30 years being so wishy-washy that they can't define themselves anymore. "Democrat" is currently defined in the mainstream as the Republican caricature of a Democrat.

OTOH, the R's were already waaaaaay out in right field. The folks that are left in the party are also waaaaaaaay out in right field, and so think their ideas are sound policy. So they want to pull the party even further right.

NY-23 and CA-10 kinda shows who's theory is correct.

[AlinPA]

12. For the most part, we won the last election by acting like Democrats. nt

[defendandprotect]

87. Absolutely . . . march on to MEDICARE FOR ALL ... we almost lost Social Security to W !!

[stray cat]

13. Not to the generic left - populist but fiscally responsible is probably the real message

[Greyhound]

33. Can you please define "generic left"? n/t

[kenfrequed]

36. You stole my question

We have to move economically and socially to the left in order to fix much of what is wrong with the country.

[msongs]

16. the party leader wants bipartisanship first....sorry nt

[Raster]

32. The party leader is WRONG.

The only thing you find in the center is yellow lines and road kill.

[ChiciB1]

58. That's A Very Good Analogy! Never Thought Of It That Way... But By Golly

I think you nailed it! Yellow lines & road kill will take us down! 2010 is just around the corner and getting Democrats out to vote is going to be difficult when Democrats are thinking... Go Independent!

I know I scratch my head a lot these days wondering where I fit in! If I switch to (I) then I won't be able to vote in primaries, but it's an option I've thought about a lot!

[defendandprotect]

88. "You can't be neutral on a moving train" . . . Howard Zinn --

[bleever]

17. K&R.

Well said.

[SammyWinstonJack]

18. +1

:thumbsup:

[Sebastian Doyle]

19. Abso-fucking-lutely!

That message should have been clear enough last year. Yet Obama himself, who won because of real Democrats responding to his campaign message, seems to have forgotten it.

Fuck false centrism and bullshit "bipartisanshit" (not a typo) with bastards who don't know the meaning of the word.

Time to be DEMOCRATS again. :kick:

[Stumbler]

22. Damn straight!

There's an old phrase I'm about to butcher: "When Dems run like Reps, they'll lose every time."

It's time for them to stop being afraid of the concept of "being a liberal."

[iceman66]

23. Let this election be a wake up call for our weak-minded 'leaders'.

[MinneapolisMatt]

24. Thanks for a nice civil discussion.

I mean it, I appreciate it. :)

[boston bean]

25. You have to make obama fear the loss of liberal votes. make him realize it will be the loss of

those votes that will cause him to lose in 2012. Right now they are all of the mind, where else are they gonna go..

so they triangulate for moderate and republican votes, leaving the left behind.

make them know they will lose for sure without your vote and don't be afraid about it.

[Nay]

68. Where else are Dems gonna go? Well, they can not go to the polls in 2012,

for one thing. Frankly, if all I see is more genuflecting to the Pubs, more war, no repeal of all the FISA crap and its cousins, well, there's no need for me to vote for a president. I'll have to see if any of the independents or socialist parties are more to my liking. I know my guy won't get in, but I will have sent a message.

That's if I decide to vote at all.

[defendandprotect]

90. AGREE . . . Liberal votes AND liberal $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ --

[DemJohn]

26. I agree!

We have to go hard left and we have to make Obama hear us. We elected him and he's turned his back on us. He promised the troops out. No troops out. He's about to add more in Afghanistan. He's turned his back on DADT and he could do that with an executive order! Why hasn't he? I'm getting awfully discouraged. He promised CHANGE! I worked my ass off for him and now he's turned his back on us and our causes. What's that about? I was sick of that parasite Bush and I wanted someone that would represent me. He said he would now he isn't.

[krabigirl]

28. Seriously.

[iamthebandfanman]

31. if we could just get all these corporate shills out

we mite not hafta use extremism to get our way.

[jimlup]

37. Yeah and also get things done!

Or risk losing your seat. Time for ACTION is now. Time for placating the RIGHT is OVER!

[cali]

38. There is no nationwide prescription

You sound just exactly like the wingnuts.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. And "left" doesn't just mean nice warm and fuzzy stuff

but most importantly for winning votes, economic populism: Tame the big money boys (and that means legislation with TEETH against the banks, the insurance companies, and the credit card companies), bring living wage jobs back to the U.S., low interest refinancing of existing debt, single payer and/or national health care.

For example, a government loan fund at 2% interest that people could use to pay off their mortgages, their credit cards, their student loans, or whatever else is holding them back, would have been a smarter way to "bail out" the banks than just writing them a blank check. Such a move would also have forced the financial institutions to lower their own interest rates.

It was striking to see how much both the left and the right objected to the bank bailout.

[NoSheep]

41. Agreed 100%

[Skidmore]

43. Ummm.... let's see.

The right is yelling "Hard right" and some on our side are yelling "Hard left (whatever that means now)" and nothing is getting done. Let's get something done for a change. I consider myself a liberal and a progressive, and I believe that those two terms are not mutually exclusive. While we are busy yelling, we are dropping the ball. Let's get some work done and start shoring up the weak places. One of those weak places we saw last night in states where we did not get out the vote. Yes, let's get behind the President and lets put forth working solutions instead of throwing tantrums.

[NJmaverick]

44. Corzine was far left, how did that work out?

[rucky]

48. As far left as a Goldman Exec can get, I suppose.

[Chan790]

50. You just had a referendum on his inability to lead...

the question is "How much of his failure to lead is attributable to his ideology and how much to his personal failings?" I don't live in NJ, until a few days ago I lived close enough to have been able to go out and campaign and work for him though, had invitations to do so...and didn't. I knew it was an important race but didn't see Jon Corzine as the sort of person worth wasting my political efforts on. I instead dedicated that time to other causes: Defenders of Wildlife, Amnesty International and writing letters in support of the public option.

I'm far far to the left of Jon Corzine...I'm not sure he is or should be the flag-bearer of progressivism in the Democratic Party. We do need one though and I don't think it can be someone like DK either as he is just too easy to lampoon.

[B Calm]

51. Corzine wanted his state to opt out of the public option. . . You call that left?

[bergie321]

45. Simple way to scare Democrats left

http://www.gp.org/donate.shtml

[ChiciB1]

59. I Refuse To Donate Any Money To Any Candidate Until I See... CHANGE! n/t

[Echo In Light]

63. You'll never have to worry 'bout parting company w/your $ then

;)

[avaistheone1]

46. Thank you about time someone made some sense.

Go left!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Echo In Light]

47. Propaganda aside, what makes one think the party isn't fulfilling its *true* role?

Divide & Rule

[no limit]

54. Just curious how you came to that conclusion based on last night.

I'm not saying I disagree with you. But I'm missing the connection from last night to going more to the left to win.

[debbierlus]

61. You had me until the last sentence. Obama is not LEFT

Obama is not the center. Obama is a corporatist.

Obama is not the person who should be our benchmark. We need to stand for democratic principles, PERIOD. And, to do that, we need to go LEFT of Obama.

[kctim]

64. There is one huge problem with your plan

and that is that moderate Democrats outnumber liberal Democrats. The Democratic Party as a whole WINS when the liberal Dems work with the moderate Dems, and it LOSES when the liberal Dems start shouting "we don't need the moderates, further left NOW!"

IF the Dems wanna win, all they have to do is respect ALL Dems.

[pnwmom]

67. Right. And we need some Independents, too. The "go to the extreme" approach

won't work for us anymore than it does the Rethugs.

[Sebastian Doyle]

82. Moderates are fine. "centrists" are not.

Because "centrism" is corporatism, and that has no place in the Democratic party.

If a senator from the sticks doesn't hug trees, I can live with it. If he DOES hug Insurance CEO's, I shouldn't have to live with that. Or die from the results of it.

[kctim]

93. Actually, you must live with that

You see, in a country as unique as ours, that "senator from the sticks" represents people such as me, not you. And I expect that senator to represent me, not you, when he or she votes on legislation. It really does NOT matter one bit if YOU think that senator hugs the insurance CEO's you envy and fear, because I am the one who will or will not vote for that senator.
So yes, you MUST live with the fact that we do not want govt healthcare OR convince us to change our minds and vote for a rep who will help pass it.

[Sebastian Doyle]

94. And which insurance company do you work for?

Seriously, try to ki$$ their a$$es a little less on your next reply. You really "outed" yourself with that one.

[kctim]

95. None

and I would love to hear you try to explain what part of my statement is not true.

Seriously, claiming one works for, or takes money from, the insurance companys, simply because they believe different than you, does NOTHING to get the votes you need.

[PVnRT]

96. YOUR Senator's votes affect ME

So, deal with it if I call them out for being a corporate sellout.

"we do not want govt healthcare"

Someone's been watching a little too much Glenn Beck.

[kctim]

98. Of course it does

but other than whine, there really isn't much you can do about it. I, on the other hand, can do something about it with my vote. I have the power to change who that senator is, you do not.
Now, with that in mind, what would be more effective for the success of the Democratic Party as a whole:
- dismiss us Dems who are not afraid to think for ourselves and suggest we are Republicans because we dare disagree with you?
- understand and respect the fact that there are some issues that we will disagree on and that compromise is the best option?

I'm going to stick with the latter myself.

[PVnRT]

97. I see. YOUR side has to do NO compromising whatsoever.

How very convenient. Maybe you'd be happier if all the evil lefties in this country were simply silenced.

[kctim]

99. In other words, you don't pay that close of attention

The far-left wants govt to provide "free" healthcare for ALL.
Moderates would have been happy with reforming the current system in order to help ease the financial burden on the average joes.
And now, the main talk is about getting a govt program to help those who are uninsured.
You're getting "free" healthcare for some and I am not being forced into a govt program I do not wish to be a part of again.

[dpbrown]

69. And don't wait!

It might already be too late. For crying out loud, you were handed a mandate a mile wide, to give us universal health care, to end the wars, to just not be George Bush, for cripes sake, and now here you are fucking it up by playing "moderate footsie."

It ain't gonna wash, my friends.

[creeksneakers2]

70. Same strategy wingers had in NY-23

I listened to them today. They are just as oblivious to political realities as the far lefties are.

[Unvanguard]

71. Yeah, because that worked so well for the Republicans in NY-23.

The unfortunate reality is that successful politicians go to where the people are, not to where they would like the people to be.

[lovelyrita]

85. They go where the money is and that is with the

corporations.

I think many people underestimate the appeal liberal stances have to Americans when actually explained to them. Such as asking people if they want Medicare extended to all Americans and the polls showing how many people support that. It is a false construct of the right that Americans hate "big government". The vast majority like social programs that work and want to stop corporate greed.

If we only had campaign finance reform and politicians who had enough spine to listen to the people and not their corporate masters.

[defendandprotect]

91. Grayson seems interested in campaign finance reform . . . he was suggesting

the other day that we could give candidates money based on registered Democrats and

registered Republicans -- i.e., the make up of the citizens in their areas.

[demigoddess]

72. amen, who can you vote for when it is central right or nutcase right??

[sam sarrha]

73. GET ORGANIZED, VOTE AS A PARTY..!! start shuttle car services etc.. GET OUT THE VOTE.!!

[defendandprotect]

80. Move everyone to Absentee Ballots -- vote early, vote late --

Paper ballot and Pen . . . only way to go --

[RedCloud]

74. Stop letting the minority party screw us royally like they own the place

[defendandprotect]

81. This has always been true . . . Sen Geo Mitchell simply turned Senate over to Sen Bob Dole--!!

[Buzz Clik]

83. Going hard right destroyed the Republicans.

Going hard left would do the same for the Dems.

[BrklynLiberal]

84. K&R

[defendandprotect]

86. Pass MEDICARE FOR ALL be majority for next 40 years -- !!!

[mother earth]

89. A resounding, hell yeah, and a K & R! 100%!!!!!

:kick: :yourock:

[JDPriestly]

92. Stay away from wishy-washy Dems and Goldman Sachs. Voters

not only don't like wishy-washy, but universally, we all dislike Goldman Sachs.