Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Right-wing legal power exploiting loopholes for a fundamentalist takeover of public education.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 12:03 PM
Original message
Right-wing legal power exploiting loopholes for a fundamentalist takeover of public education.
Edited on Tue Nov-03-09 12:53 PM by madfloridian
Americans United is starting to speak up some on this issue of the various ways that public money is going to religious schools.

From Rob Boston at AU.

Religious Right Activists Use Wide Variety Of Tactics To Evangelize In The Classroom

Religious Right leaders often heap abuse on public schools, calling them “godless” and recommending that fundamentalists put their kids in private academies or educate them at home. At the same time, the Religious Right lusts for influence over public schools, seeing them as a “mission field” for new recruits.

Most public school officials want to do the right thing and realize that pushing religion is not among their duties. But a few won’t accept that and insist on bringing proselytism into the classroom. At the same time, public schools are often assailed by outside forces – local Religious Right groups and right-wing state and local legislators – determined to use them to stoke the flames of the culture wars.


Southern Baptists have often put out the call to leave the godless schools and homeschool.

There are many legal groups that work full time to figure out how to infiltrate public education. Some of these groups are from the efforts of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, and the law schools they set up.

An array of well-funded, fundamentalist Christian groups work overtime to find new ways to promote their religion in schools. Organizations like Gateways to Better Education, the National Network of Youth Ministries, the Christian Educators Association International, the Gideons and others see public schools as targets for proselytism, bursting with young people in need of conversion. Increasingly, they are backed by right-wing legal power. Groups like the Alliance Defense Fund, Liberty Counsel, the American Center for Law and Justice and others exploit any loophole they can to find new ways to slip fundamentalism into America’s classrooms.

Is the campaign having an affect at the grassroots level? Attorneys with Americans United say yes. Despite a clear track record of federal court rulings striking down coercive forms of religion in public schools, AU’s Legal Department receives a steady stream of complaints about this issue.


Religious right groups are "pushing the envelope" to convince school officials that they have rights in public schools.

Religious Right groups continue to push the envelope in this area.

In late September, the Alliance Defense Fund and Gateways to Better Education announced a joint venture to “educate” public school officials and students about their alleged rights in class. The two groups are distributing a pamphlet titled “Free to Speak” that purports to be based on guidelines promulgated by the U.S. Department of Education. While the document does selectively quote from department-issued guidelines, its description of some issues appears to be overly broad and misleading.

...."Furthermore, Gateways to Better Education has a poor track record in this area. In the past, the group, which works with Focus on the Family to get wider distribution for its materials, has disseminated booklets purporting to outline the law relating to religion in public schools that were riddled with errors. One infamous publication featured a talking Easter Bunny explaining how teachers could use the holiday to discuss the resurrection of Jesus.


From Focus on the Family, James Dobson's works were/are used by many guidance counselors in our area, and some teachers as well. One of the main topics we would hear discussed was from the title of one of his books...the contents were interpreted here as breaking the strong-willed child. Getting the upper hand, not much about trying to work with and talk with and understand that child.

Rob Boston and Americans United are correct. Here are the words from the Christian Coalition in 1995. Read them carefully in case you think they have disappeared from the scene or had a losing agenda.

Coalition called to eliminate schools| "Charter Schools" A Ruse For Destroying Public Education?

Raleigh, North Carolina - "We must eliminate public education as it is structured today and reinvent it in a new form," according to Roxane Premont, director of the North Carolina Education Reform Foundation (NCERF). If successful, the "new form" of public education will ultimately result in private religious schools paid for by taxpayer money.

Premont addressed Christian Coalition members in a Saturday afternoon workshop at the annual Road to Victory conference last September in Washington, DC. Literature outlining the plan to eliminate public education was distributed during a workshop called "Vouchers and Tax Credits - It's Time for Parents to Choose."

The first step in the proposed plan is to establish charter schools, which are, according to Premont, "public schools that operate independently of local school district jurisdiction and operate much like private schools."

According to NCERF literature: "Charter schools will provide a pool of independent schools that can readily be converted to private schools to meet increased demand for private education once voucher laws are passed. Charter schools that are converted into private schools will be initiated by those persons who want religious education.


"With charters the money goes directly from the state to the charter school. With vouchers it goes directly to parents who then take it to the school.


The first step in the plan is to establish charter schools. That deed is done now. Over 4 billion dollars await the districts that form more charter schools. The money is coming from a Democratic administration.

And we are not fighting to save our public schools. The complacency is due in part to ignorance of what is going on...in part to our desire not to make waves in the party.

There are now at least 8 religious schools in Florida getting taxpayer money. They are eating away at the resources for traditional public schools.

Yet we still ignore the fact that the goals of the Christian Coalition are winning the day.

On edit: Here are the known religious schools that are turning charter for public money.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Eliminate the tax exemtion for churches.
They must be defunded.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
32. That would be a great idea.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mstinamotorcity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. whenever there is a tax cut
public education is usually the first thing they hit. As long as the American people don't demand the best of public education and secure the proper amount of funding that is not wasted by local officials you will see more public schools go into failure
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. That's the secret. Demand good public education and fund it.
Trouble is there is so much apathy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mstinamotorcity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Bet if you were going to start a war
in some third world country they would start pulling money out their ass cheeks
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. How true.
Unfortunately true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KakistocracyHater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
50. you need to find local leaders who are PASSIONATE about education
look at the schools closest & see if you can organize a group. There must be several good counter-arguments about charter/religious schools. Start local, connect with other like-minded groups & help eachother out.

It only requires the same efforts as the Fundies, if you're likeable & people notice you then-do it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
35. A very important truth...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
soarsboard2 Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. Personal Concern
As someone who is of a minority religon, this kind of nonsense has me real concerned.

I don't want my son to be evangelicalized.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. It's a legit concern in my opinion.
I was raised in a religious home, Southern Baptist. But the extremism drove me away.

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chef Eric Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. I'm concerned too. That's why I joined A.U. for Separation of C&S!
And by the way, welcome to DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. Cherry picking laws like they cherry pick the Bible?
NOOOOOO, who would have thought?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Sounds that way.
They keep pushing and pushing, and there is no one pushing back against them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. These guys are THE real enemy
America hasn't been so endangered by anyone in well over a century.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Yep, Hopefully people will wake up before it's too late...
I'm planning on raising and educating my kids in my DH's home country of France. Maybe I'll come back when these nuts are out of power for real.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. Strange situation: "Florida – School Or Church?"
http://www.au.org/media/church-and-state/archives/2009/11/prayers-preaching-public.html

" A public school in Florida became the focus of bitter controversy recently after complaints that inappropriate religious activity was rife. Parents claimed that for years, staff at Pace High School in Santa Rosa County mixed religion with education. The Pensacola News Journal reported that under Principal Frank Lay, the school was known as “the Baptist Academy.”

Teachers and staff reportedly delivered prayers and invited students or outside leaders to lead prayers during school activities. Teachers read from the Bible and discussed church attendance with students. Students were encouraged to attend religious clubs and incorporate religion into their schoolwork. Earlier this year, parents who disagreed with the commingling of church and school enlisted the help of the American Civil Liberties Union and sued. Lay and other officials admitted they were in the wrong and in May agreed to resolve the litigation by signing a court order to keep religion promotion outside the classroom."

Problems continued and the judge got upset that the religious right said he had outlawed prayer.

"In September, Lay and Freeman appeared before U.S. District Judge Casey Rodgers, who ruled that the two were not in violation because the prayer provided at the luncheon was spontaneous and offered with seemingly no intent to violate the court order. But Rodgers also cautioned the two to be careful in the future and addressed misinformation about the case being circulated by the Religious Right and its Web outlets.

“The rule of law is what governs…. It’s the foundation for not just our order, but for our liberties,” Rodgers declared. “To suggest that the court has criminalized prayer…is offensive and insulting. The court’s duty is to apply the law, not public opinion, no matter how popular.”
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
icymist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. These are the people screaming that gays have an agenda?!
eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Yes, those are the people. I am fearful we are letting them get away with it.
Instead of fighting back hard.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Um, of course we are. The Democratic party openly kisses their butts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
edc Donating Member (407 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. We've got lots of arenas.
We just need more lions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. Republican/Christian/Corporate fundamentalist - Dumb down students & teach them rewritten history
written by the same sick Republican/Christian/Corporate fundamentalist liars & profiteers!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. Can we call it like it is?
Tax money going to private/charter schools is the equivalent to the back door giving of VOUCHERS - just that the government is doing it on it's own and not involving the parent/guardian in the choice.

Now, who here a few years ago was in favor of Bush's plan for school vouchers?

K&R madfloridain - they way the public school system is being hijacked by right wing ideology is frightening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Very good point about the back door use of vouchers.
Yes, it is frightening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
20. k i c k
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
21. Excellent post, madflo, as always! K&R!
I don't get it - these groups make no secret of their agenda, yet lawmakers (even Democratic lawmakers) bend over backward to accommodate them. Is it just their voting block these lawmakers are after or is it something else? Campaign contributions? Fear? Co conspirators?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. I think a lot of it is fear of crossing the religious right.
A fear of losing. It is going to drag us down if we keep on this way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #21
46. co-conspirators. look at the money behind obama's campaign. the same money was behind
chicago's charter school initiative.

look at obama's dept of ed chief. the implementer of chicago's charter initiative.

charters are desired by the ruling class generally, not just by r-wing nuts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
22. funny how they feel the need to force their politics on kids
these people are sick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. And their religious beliefs...
which in effect I guess have become their political beliefs. I guess they can't be separated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neurotica Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
24. Another tactic - the so-called "65% solution"
Republicans in various states have tried -- I think successfully in some cases -- to require public schools to spend 65% of their funds in the classroom.

Sounds good, right?

Wrong. It's a backdoor attempt to undermine public education by forcing school districts to reallocate precious resources and sowing dissension between teachers and administrators.

Here in VA, our probable new governor, Republican Bob McDonnell, has made the 65% solution one of his goals.

This 2006 information bulletin from the New York State teachers union sums up what I remember about this ploy. It states:

"One proposal being advanced throughout the country by anti-public education activists is the "65% Solution." Tim Mooney a Republican political consultant and Patrick Byrne the CEO of Overstock.com have founded a group called First Class Education (FCE). The goal of this organization is to pass laws in each of the 50 states to require school districts to spend at least 65% of their operating budgets on "classroom expenditures."While this proposal to require school districts to spend at least 65% of their budget on direct classroom instruction may seem reasonable at first glance, what FCE is really trying to do is to force school districts to reallocate existing resources..."

"Both the AFT and the NEA are opposed to the 65% Solution. Mandating that districts reallocate current expenditures to achieve 65% is unfair because it omits from consideration many related expenditures that are critical components for the education of students. For example, the definition of classroom expenditures excludes costs for transportation, counselors, security, libraries, school lunches, nurses, and instructional aides..."

"Given the broad public support that this simplistic proposal receives in opinion polling — over 95% of respondents report that they would rather see education dollars be spent in the classroom than elsewhere, perhaps one approach to neutralize this effort is to reframe the issue. The proponents of the 65% Solution support reaching 65%% through a reallocation of existing school resources which pits certain school service employees against teachers because districts would be forced to cut expenditures for school related professionals, counselors, nurses, librarians, social workers, administrators, food service workers, custodians, and other nonteaching positions. By changing the terminology from "reallocate existing resources to achieve the 65% Solution" to " increase education funding to achieve the 65% Solution," or by expanding the definition of "classroom instruction" expenditures, the impact of this initiative would be neutralized."

Here's a link to the bulletin itself:

http://www.nysut.org/cps/rde/xchg/nysut/hs.xsl/bulletins_4852.htm


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I thought the 65% solution had been discredited...
Probably not though.

That a shame. They never give up, neither should we.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neurotica Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Unfortunately not. I just double-checked and yes, this is McDonnell's plan
He's pinning his school funding scheme on the 65% solution. Here's part of a September press release from our new lieutenant governor, Republican Bill Bolling:

"Several weeks ago Bob McDonnell and I announced a bold, new education funding proposal to increase classroom spending by $484 million annually without raising taxes. We would do this by transferring money from the central office bureaucracy to the classroom.

According to the most recent federal guidelines, Virginia currently spends 61% of our education dollars in the classroom. The fact that Virginia spends nearly 40% of our education dollars in the central office bureaucracy, instead of the classroom, is a disservice to Virginia students and teachers.

The McDonnell/Bolling proposal is simple - increase instructional spending from 61% to 65% by shifting an average of 4% over 4 years from the central office to the classroom. This would provide an additional $484 million to increase teacher salaries, reduce class sizes, improve textbooks and technology, etc.

Our children will get the best education by having the best teachers, best textbooks and best technology in the classroom, not by having excessive spending on administration and bureaucracy. Students learn in the classroom, not in the central office.

We need to focus as much of our money as possible in the classroom to give our children the knowledge and skills they need to compete for the high-quality jobs of the future.

On average local school districts would be required to increase the percentage of classroom spending by 1% per year during the four years of the McDonnell/Bolling administration. Each district would be given the flexibility to determine the best way to reach this goal in their locality..."


Meanwhile, the Republican who just unseated my Democratic delegate has promised to "give charter school applicants more options to establish schools."

Wonder what that really means?!



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. "give charter school applicants more options to establish schools."
That just means they agree with Arne Duncan about charter schools.

It's all just happening so fast.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
30. "Conversion anxiety"...
http://blog.au.org/2009/10/23/conversion-anxiety-parochialtocharterschool-transitions-spark-concern/

"October 23, 2009

The creative folks at the Archdiocese of Miami think they have found a new group of donors to bail out their financially strapped parishes and parochial schools: the taxpayers of Florida. According to Florida Catholic, several Catholic schools in South Florida that closed due to declining enrollment or money problems reopened this fall as publicly funded charter schools.

“What was intended as a pilot program at one parish – Corpus Christi in Wynwood – will become, for financial reasons, the norm at seven more,” the diocesan newspaper reported.

Charters, the newspaper said, opened in August where five other Catholic schools closed last June: Sacred Heart, Our Lady of Divine Providence in Sweetwater, St. Francis Xavier in Overtown, St. Stephen in Miramar and St. Clement in Fort Lauderdale. A seventh charter opened at St. Malachy in Tamarac, and an eighth opened in Miami Gardens, in a building used by St. Monica School. Because they are publicly funded, the charter schools reportedly are not teaching religion, but church officials offer religious instruction immediately after the close of the school day."

More on the topic:

"Brenda Dawson, principal of the former St. Francis Xavier School, now serves as principal at Theodore R. and Thelma A. Gibson Charter School, which is operating at the old parochial school. She urged parents to give the charter school a try.

“We really encouraged them that, though it’s not a Catholic school, you’ve got the same principal. You’ve got the same values. I’m Catholic. My husband is a deacon,” Dawson told Florida Catholic.
To sweeten the deal, the parishes are being paid rent for use of the parochial school facilities. According to the newspaper, rental income ranges between $150,000 and $350,000 this first year, depending on the size, capacity and condition of the facilities."


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
31. KICK!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Thank you. This is why we can't make progress in gay rights and women's rights.
Because the religious right is getting hold of the young ones and closing their minds to those issues.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Very true!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. They have been organizing hatred for way too long.
Give them the schools and no one is safe from their right wing hatred.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. I remember reading quite a while ago that they started at the school board level
in their takeover. Most people do not bother about school board elections....so the fundies and rwingers went after all the board positions. That is why we are still having a "discussion" about teaching evolution as "a theory"...
In a way, our own complacency and naivete is what got us here. We were outfoxed by evil people with evil plans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
36. Watch Virginia like a hawk.
Their new repuke governor is a Pat Robertson protege. :scared:

And from what I understand, the new AG makes him look like a squishy-soft moderate. :scared: :scared: :scared:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. I am worried about Florida also.
The Democrats running refuse to take stands on controversial issues. The lady running for governor won't comment on the public option or union issues. She says she has no opinion because they are federal issues.

Meek, running for Senate doesn't want to even discuss the issue of abortion as it would give the GOP something to make an issue about.

They are fearful and too cautious.

I feel for VA tonight.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
37. Dang it. The only reason to unrec this is if one wants religion in schools.
That's a real shame.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
40. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 04:27 AM
Response to Original message
41. The American Taliban is trying to gain more power
Edited on Wed Nov-04-09 04:29 AM by AsahinaKimi
In this country. They certainly want to control whats being taught to children. Whats next the Moral Police? It seems like some born again Christians want to be as hard lined as their Islamic counter parts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. not quite. the us ruling class is creating/constructing the american taliban,
just as they created the middle eastern one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
42. Separation of Church and State needs to be a huge focus and reinforced now by
not allowing Religious Orgs to get by with this crap. Tax exempt status should be pulled from many of them. These groups are the ruin of our Country by dividing it up, stirring up hostility and by acting in illegal ways. They have no conscience for the overall good of the Country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neurotica Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. Local people/groups need to monitor and publicize these types of things
It takes time to educate people but it's critical.

In my suburban area, the public school system is very important to parents. And most parents want the same things for their kids -- good schools, opportunities to succeed, healthy environments, etc.

I have found that when right-wing groups attempt to inject their ideology into the school system, most parents disagree with their efforts once they understand the potential (read "unintended") consequences of their actions. It's usually only a small, vocal group that is involved in trying to blur that separation line. The problem then comes down to who gets to make the decisions (principals, superintendent, school board), and with whom are those persons affiliated.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. If this continues the anti-gay and anti-women's rights groups will get louder.
I am stunned that there is no one on our side speaking out against this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. Yes, but we have lost that focus, I fear.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
48. Kick
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 18th 2024, 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC