So, convince me the middle class isn't fucked.

[Tim01]

I was at a lunch thing the other day with a couple hard core repubs. I don't agree with them, but I don't bother arguing with them too much, just makes me crazy. But their fear over this whole health care thing is that they think their income will be used to pay for health care for people who don't earn their own living. These are middle class guys. I know their opinions are full of logical and moral problems, but one thing does bother me.
I am not convinced anything will be paid for by the rich.
In countries who have govt run health care, countries who are pleased with their health care, it is the rich people who are picking up a big chunk of the tab. And what they get for their money is a country with people who are less stressed and happier and healthier, money well spent.
But I'm afraid that in this country, with our culture, the rich people will just pull a fast one and it will be the middle class who will pick up the tab. God knows the corporations are already doing a good job of getting their rich employees to pick up a paycheck at the expense of our paycheck.

I don't actually see any good solution to this, and I don't see things getting better. The current healthcare system is not good, and it's getting worse, well, ok it's fine for rich people. And I am not convinced we are moving in a better direction.

[stray cat]

1. Of course we are - since Bush took office and with the economy and debt we are all screwed

[Craftsman]

2. Off course the middle class is screwed and by both parties

Both parties are now bought and paid for by the rich. Every time the middle class get thrown a bone they, Wall St. gets the steak.

[Zodiak]

3. I won't try to convince you.

The basic fact that my mother was able to raise me by herself with a high school education in a home of her own (70s-80s) vs. me with a Ph.D. (and a job in my field) barely able to scrape by in an apartment tells me all I need to know.

[alc]

4. a big chunk has to come from the middle class

1) There aren't enough rich to collect the required money (at least after they adjust/hide income)

2) Corporations will keep their profit margins & executive compensation the same by decreasing wages

3) Many companies will allow $Y for job X. After removing taxes, health care, other benefits, they have the maximum salary they will pay for X. If taxes or premiums go up, max salary goes down. (People at DU have disagreed, but I've seen it happen at small and large companies where I've worked with HR. I've also seen max salary go UP when costs go down - they do care about $Y, not just trying to screw the employees.)

[Tim01]

6. So, my republican friends are actually right.

The middle class will pay for the new healthcare system, in addition to what they are already paying.

I don't really like looking at a problem and coming to the conclusion there is no solution.

[Javaman]

8. Here's the answer to all your questions about life and healthcare...

ask yourself one question: Who always puts in the lions share of funds for any program?

(here's a clue, is isn't the rich)

[salguine]

5. There's still a middle class?

[fasttense]

7. If we had a political party in the majority that knew anything about the economy,

they would repeal the Raygun tax cuts but since we don't, the middle class is screwed.

Or as my father use to say: "The fat guy never pays the bill."