How Ayn Rand Became an American Icon: The perverse allure of a damaged woman

[tekisui]

Source: Slate

By Johann Hari

Ayn Rand is one of America's great mysteries. She was an amphetamine-addicted author of sub-Dan Brown potboilers, who in her spare time wrote lavish torrents of praise for serial killers and the Bernie Madoff-style embezzlers of her day. She opposed democracy on the grounds that "the masses"—her readers—were "lice" and "parasites" who scarcely deserved to live. Yet she remains one of the most popular writers in the United States, still selling 800,000 books a year from beyond the grave. She regularly tops any list of books that Americans say have most influenced them. Since the great crash of 2008, her writing has had another Benzedrine rush, as Rush Limbaugh hails her as a prophetess. With her assertions that government is "evil" and selfishness is "the only virtue," she is the patron saint of the tea-partiers and the death panel doomsters. So how did this little Russian bomb of pure immorality in a black wig become an American icon?

Two new biographies of Rand—Goddess of the Market by Jennifer Burns and Ayn Rand and the World She Made by Anne Heller—try to puzzle out this question, showing how her arguments found an echo in the darkest corners of American political life.* But the books work best, for me, on a level I didn't expect. They are thrilling psychological portraits of a horribly damaged woman who deserves the one thing she spent her life raging against: compassion.

(snip)

It's not hard to see this as a kind of political post-traumatic stress disorder. Rand believed the Bolshevik lie that they represented the people, so she wanted to strike back at them—through theft and murder. In a nasty irony, she was copying their tactics. She started to write her first novel, We the Living (1936), and in the early drafts her central character—a crude proxy for Rand herself—says to a Bolshevik: "I loathe your ideals. I admire your methods. If one believes one's right, one shouldn't wait to convince millions of fools, one might just as well force them."

She poured these beliefs into a series of deeply odd novels. She takes the flabby staples of romantic fiction and peppers them with political ravings and rapes for the audience to cheer on. All have the same core message: Anything that pleases the Superman's ego is good; anything that blocks it is bad. In The Fountainhead, published in 1943, a heroic architect called Howard Roark designs a housing project for the poor—not out of compassion but because he wants to build something mighty. When his plans are slightly altered, he blows up the housing project, saying the purity of his vision has been contaminated by evil government bureaucrats. He orders the jury to acquit him, saying: "The only good which men can do to one another and the only statement of their proper relationship is—Hands off!"

For her longest novel, Atlas Shrugged (1957), Rand returned to a moment from her childhood. Just as her father once went on strike to protest against Bolshevism, she imagined the super-rich in America going on strike against progressive taxation—and said the United States would swiftly regress to an apocalyptic hellhole if the Donald Trumps and Ted Turners ceased their toil. The abandoned masses are described variously as "savages," "refuse," "inanimate objects," and "imitations of living beings," picking through rubbish. One of the strikers deliberately causes a train crash, and Rand makes it clear she thinks the murder victims deserved it, describing in horror how they all supported the higher taxes that made the attack necessary.

Her heroes are a cocktail of extreme self-love and extreme self-pity: They insist they need no one, yet they spend all their time fuming that the masses don't bow down before their manifest superiority.

As her books became mega-sellers, Rand surrounded herself with a tightly policed cult of young people who believed she had found the One Objective Truth about the world. They were required to memorize her novels and slapped down as "imbecilic" and "anti-life" by Rand if they asked questions. One student said: "There was a right kind of music, a right kind of art, a right kind of interior design, a right kind of dancing. There were wrong books which we should not buy."


More: http://www.slate.com/id/2233966/
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Scathing review of her books, life and political philosophy.

[joeybee12]

1. Ah, Mark Sanford's hero...

...tells you everything you need to know about that festering boil in SC.

[Canuckistanian]

7. You're kidding

I never would have thought Sanford to be a reader of ANY kind of book.

[joeybee12]

8. He wrote an article for last week's Newsweek praising her...

...I kid you not.

[Ignis]

13. I thought so, too, but here's the article:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/219001

Pull on your tall boots before you read; it's a Rand hagiography.

[Canuckistanian]

19. OMG, he's brainwashed

He seems to object to Rand's total lack of "grace, love, faith, or any form of social compact".

Then he goes on to admire those very qualities.

Then he resorts to "Argumentum ad populum" fallacy, the idea that since so many people believe her BS and buy her books, that it's a legitimate philosophy.

It's sad that such people get to be Governors of whole states.

[Ignis]

22. "I'm not only a kool-aid drinker, I own the company!"

If I ever harbored a doubt as to Stanford's wing-nuttiness--which I didn't--that article would have put an end to that.

I really don't want to know what sort of logical disconnect is required to be both an Objectivist and a fundie Christian at the same time.

:scared:

[nomorenomore08]

32. I guess the connection is sort of a Calvinistic one - the "elect" versus the "damned."

But yeah, the cognitive dissonance is still a head-scratcher nonetheless.

[philly_bob]

41. Thanks for making this connection. n/t

[AlbertCat]

93. I really don't want to know what sort of logical disconnect is required to be both an Objectivist an

An "I'm right!" ego.

[sui generis]

122. yep, I like my villains and heroes to be certified two bit one dimensional

easy to comprehend all black or all white, and DO NOT cross any category or have any depth or complexity.

She was a bitter cup of coffee at the end, but she was also ultimately a woman in a man's world, with a grudge she couldn't put her finger on.

I have no problem cherry picking her ideas. Some of them were decent and right, and some of them were loony. It's not all or nothing with any philosophy, or why bother.

[mitchum]

123. Correction: Alice Rosenbaum was a crazy woman in a crazy man's world...

one can only conclude that crazy worms died on her putrid flesh after she was in the ground

[pattmarty]

92. Porn??????

[Lost-in-FL]

87. And Ron Paul's hero too. nt

[denem]

2. Limbaugh et al. never mention her pathological hatred of Religion nor,

the Ayn Rand Center declaring Abortion to be an 'Absolute Right'

[Kurovski]

27. They hate religion too.

The Bush White House was notorious for condescending to and exploiting the the religious.

I believe a book was written.

A man who worked in the wh in a faith-based capacity. He busted them in a book.

I believe he was of at least partly asian descent. don't amember anything else, would google , but I gotta run.

[WoodyD]

50. David Kuo

wrote "Tempting Faith."

Here's his wiki entry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kuo_(author)

[Kurovski]

105. Thank you!

:thumbsup:

[GillesDeleuze]

76. well thats a 1 dimensional view of religious politics and conservatism

its not like there are loads of books written from the other perspective:

jeff sharlets the family for example

[Kurovski]

104. Many-dimensional uses of religion for purposes of gaining power.

:rofl:

[avaistheone1]

3. Upon every exposure to her, I thought she was nuts. Literally nuts.

I thought Atlas Shrugged was insane, and soulless, as well as Ayn Rand's interviews.

[avaistheone1]

4. Greenspan's super hero. It is told that Greenspan went to her funeral with a huge dollar bill.

[PHIMG]

38. It was a flower wreath shapped like a dollar bill

Thom Hartmann relays this scene a lot when he speaks of the Rand-Greenspan connection, usually after he's had someone from the Ayn Rand Insitute or center or whatever.

[tonysam]

15. I always thought she was a few decks short of a full card

However, the two new biographies of Rand might be worth reading. She may have been nuts, but there was a reason for it.

[eppur_se_muova]

45. "a few decks short of a full card" ... not given to understatement, are you?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Might be a DUzy!

[Warpy]

18. You could almost buy her bullshit in "The Fountainhead,"

which was probably her most successful novel. "Atlas" was a total abomination. I finished it in silly giggles, though, trying to envision all her hard bitten, driven characters with whiny toddlers needing their suppers clinging to them. That's where it all broke down for me at the age of sixteen, children.

Plus the image of these rabid souls spouting multipage monologues at each other was just too insanely funny to take.

I also realized that labor made the world go round, and if all the owners and rulers went on strike, nobody would notice much at all.

Poor Rand, turned into a twisted caricature of a human being by a rabidly anticommunist father who resented the notion of doing something for someone other than himself and coddled by Cold Warriors and capitalists alike in the US, really didn't have a chance to explore what was truly human.

Anybody who is a fan after the age of thirty is either stupid or sociopathic.

[Tansy_Gold]

86. My experience was different.

I never understood The Fountainhead at all. Maybe if I read it today it would make more sense, but I just never figured it out.

I read it right before I read Atlas Shrugged, at the age of 20. I had absolutely no political or even academic background at all, neither by education or up-bringing. None.

AS filled that vacuum. It made sense to me. The story did, that is, and at least some of the philosophy, but I had nothing whatsoever to combat it with.

But the flaws in the story that kept me from suspending disbelief meant that I couldn't embrace it wholeheartedly, and as a result, any connection I felt to Objectivism was easily broken as I learned more about the real world, and about real people.

There are no children in Atlas Shrugged. I read it in 1968, when the "miracle" of the birth control pill was making sex safe for women who had previously had to worry about getting "caught." This was an issue on the mind of nearly every young woman I encountered. So reading AS and finding no reference to the risks of unprotected sex, I couldn't set aside that portion of my disbelief.

Published in 1957, it has no reference to television, yet the whole premise relies on the science fiction aspect of Galt's generator AND on his invisibility shield. Why reach for science fiction elements and leave out science fact ones? Again, I couldn't shrug off reality.

Her understanding of the Robin Hood concept as evil made no sense. And her abandonment of Eddie -- who was the novel's conscience even while he himself admitted he functioned within its reality as a medieval serf -- was the act of a brute.

Rand of course had no children and there was no place for children in her books. Children being the most essential product of any society, her reality was doomed to failure.

So I kept faith with some elements of the philosophy, but felt no great loss when the last threads broke.

What I cannot imagine now, having made that transition, is how someone with the education and experience of an Alan Greenspan could fall for that shit, unless of course they, too, are as evil and deluded as Rand herself.


TG

[tonysam]

111. I saw the movie version of "The Fountainhead"

which starred (miscast) Gary Cooper and Patricia Neal. I also have it on DVD. Hilariously awful, but since Amphetamine Aynnie wrote the screenplay, one can't say it wasn't faithful to the book.

Poor Cooper. When he gave that speech in the courtroom, it was like he was phoning it in, not knowing what in the hell he was saying.

The only thing notable about the film was the fact Cooper and Neal began a torrid affair in real life.

[niyad]

114. I read all of her books when I was 13 or 14. talking of children--there was one

short story (I think she wrote it while still in russia) about a woman whose husband is in jail or something--she is trying to rescue him--and receives word that their child is gravely ill. she chooses to continue trying to rescue her husband, who is "her greatest value" (guess they could always have another kid, yes?)

several years later I was reading some interview she had done, talking about how women always had to have a strong man around to look up to, to be the one in control, that it wasn't normal or natural for a woman to be totally independent. unbelievable.
and even though I didn't know just how close she and nathaniel branden were, I thought the whole relationship was just creepy.

[Tansy_Gold]

117. I believe there are two mentions of children in Atlas

One is a reference to a news story or bit of gossip or something -- something secondhand anyway -- about a mother who forces her child to share. Then there is a "cameo" of a woman in Galt's Gulch who has a child and I think Dagny expresses shock/surprise that there are children there.

I seem to remember something about the story of the woman not rescuing her child in favor of saving the husband, but no details come to mind. It certainly fits with what I know of Rand.

Branden's book, "My Life With Ayn Rand," is interesting, but definitely creepy. I had wondered, on reading Atlas the first time, how Rand could possibly expect Francisco and Rearden not to be jealous when Dagny moves on, so to speak. I mean, that's just not natural. (I believe she states in the novel that jealousy is the "hallmark of the second-rater," but my memory ain't what it used to be.) Of course, when she herself moved on she expected both Frank (her husband) and Barbara Branden to not be jealous, too. Apparently she kept poor Frank too drunk to notice much; Barbara was less accommodating.

I personally think it's important to understand Rand, in a kind of "know your enemy" way.


TG

[JDPriestly]

132. Actually, it occurs to me that Ayn Rand's philosophy is a successor

to the philosophy of Rousseau. She values the anti-social, the primitive nature of man. Everything would be wonderful if only we didn't have to restrain ourselves to get along with other people. It is total selfishness. How any adult could take it seriously is beyond me.

[niyad]

115. wasn't galt's whole diatribe (excuse me, philosophical exposition) relayed through tv,

or was it only radio?

[Tansy_Gold]

116. Only radio.

There is, as far as I know, no mention whatsoever of television in the book.

[olegramps]

118. Good commentary.

When I read her works they seemed to me to have as much reference to reality as a roadrunner cartoon. The mixing of science fiction and a ridiculous cast of characters appeared to me to only appeal to sophomoric pseudo-intellectuals. You could see them huddled in corners in deep discussion of the hidden truths of her ridiculous plots who lugged her tomes around as a badge of superior intellect.

[JDPriestly]

131. Warpy, I, too, read most if not all of her books. They appeal to the adolescent

mind. (She never got beyond that stage of emotional maturity.) Unfortunately, at that time, I was hoping to have six children. When I thought about how impossible it would be to raise children with her philosophy, I rejected her ideas completely.

I know that Greenspan was a Rand fan. To my knowledge, he did not have children. And Sanford? Spending father's day with his mistress? Very Ayn Rand. Very poor parenting.

Ayn Rand would be a great philosophy for someone who planned to live on a desert island. But it is dangerously antisocial, anti-family and anti-religion. Disgusting if you want to ask me.

[AlbertCat]

95. Upon every exposure to her, I thought she was nuts. Literally nuts.

Me too.

And boring..... you forgot BORRRRRRRRING!

[jefferson_dem]

5. The only thing I despise more than Ayn Rand's soulless political philosophy...

are those that espouse it.

[Canuckistanian]

6. Interesting

One of those "tightly policed cult of young people" turned out to be - Alan Greenspan.

He seemed to be a part of her inner circle called, ironically enough, "The Collective"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ayn_Rand_Collective#The_Collective

[devilgrrl]

36. Yuck, some of the ghouls are still alive and still ghouls!

:puke:

Your shit don't work! Go away already!

[SOS]

9. Amphetamine freak

Sex with teenage boy while married.
Spent entire life in a revenge fantasy.
Mean.
Egomaniac. "Would you edit the Bible?"

No wonder Republicans love her.

[cutlassmama]

17. Exactly. Most Republicans are narcissitic loons just like her.

[Lilyeye]

109. I've also heard a lot of celebs say they loved her work.

Here's a link

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth--1697-CelebRandFans.aspx


Rob Lowe was interviewed in September 2004 by Elle magazine and was asked, “What woman, living or dead, would you love to meet?” The former West Wing star answered enthusiastically, “I’m almost done with Atlas Shrugged and it’s completely blowing my mind, so Ayn Rand.” In another interview he added, “Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand is a stupendous achievement and I just adore it.”

“What am I reading? I’ve been very into Ayn Rand, so I’ve read The Fountainhead and then Atlas Shrugged,” Jolie replied. “I just think she has a very interesting philosophy.” She added: “You re-evaluate your own life and what’s important to you.” -Angelina Jolie

“My favorite book is The Fountainhead. That’s by Ayn Rand. I relate to it because of the idea that you’re not a bad person if you don’t love everyone.” Ricci told Movieline in 2001 that she also appreciated the book “because the writing is so beautiful.” -Christina Ricci

“What is the most important quality that a man must possess to be with you?” “Self-confidence, rational, ambition, and lovability,” she replied, then added: “Oh, and he has to be an Ayn Rand fan.” -Eva Mendes

[mitchum]

124. Well, most celebrities are not known for their intellectual abilities...

or for even graduating from real high school

[anonymous171]

10. Damn...

:wow::kick:

[tjwash]

11. Resistance is futile...

...you will be assimilated. Now drop and polish my gun you worthless male.

[mitchum]

57. "I'm not pretty...so I must be smart and talented!!!"

Sorry, but it doesn't work that way Alice

[The_Casual_Observer]

12. I'd have never given that ugly hag a second look. Ugly to the bone, no matter

how many stupid books she wrote.

[redqueen]

52. What do her looks have to do with anything?

Let alone your personal willingness to 'give her a second look'...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

14. And on top of being a sociopathic meth freak, she was also a shitty writer.

If you can wade through even a few pages of that tendentious crap, you have more patience than I do. Anybody older than a college freshman who thinks her books *aren't* crap is a moron.

[defendandprotect]

78. Agree . . . Unfortunately, reading her was connected to a certain sophistication . . .

which those who claimed to read her latched onto.

Sadly, I don't think that people who read it and tossed it aside were willing to say so.
I think some people just presumed they weren't sophisticated enough to understand it???

Think she also continues to get a tremendous boost from "Fountainhead" movie which was
really a love story between Patricia Neal and Gary Cooper seen on the screen. Wow!
Who paid any attention to what was the script was all about?????????

[AlbertCat]

99. "Fountainhead" movie

With the opening of Patricia Neal slowly taking a little replica of a Hellenistic statue, walking slowly and glassy-eyed to the balcony and dropping it off to smash on the sidewalk below, I said: "That's enough stupid symbolism for me" and never watched any farther. Dumb on the page.... dumb on the screen.

[defendandprotect]

108. But . . . as I was saying . . .

who wss paying attention to anything but Patricia O'Neal and Gary Cooper???

[tonysam]

113. You should have watched it all

Especially when Coop came back for "more" after Neal slapped him in the face with a whip.

[mitchum]

129. Vidor knew that he only had pulpy trash to work with in "The Fountainhead"...

he gave the material the ridiculous treatment that it deserved (he wasn't adapting Faulkner)
That's why it's a camp classic.

[tonysam]

112. I mentioned that flick in an above post

Director King Vidor was on a roll in the late 1940s, with three legendary turkeys to his discredit, almost one after another. There was "Duel in the Sun," "The Fountainhead," and that wonderful piece of garbage "Beyond the Forest."

You could tell Coop and Neal had the hots for each other in "The Fountainhead." That's the only reason to see the movie.

[JDPriestly]

133. Her picture tells the whole story: too plain to be loved. She just

never experienced love -- what it means to love someone to the point you would rather die than have them die. That is what being a wife and mother is about for many women -- very deep love -- something Ayn Rand was too plain to experience. And by plain, I am not just referring to physical or plastic beauty. I mean the vibrant beauty of a soul that is alive. You can't measure it, but it is what makes one person capable of loving and another not.

[Sinti]

16. You can kind of see how it caught on

with a certain type of personality in America, though. If you look back at our history, we built ourselves partly on the notion that a whole group of human beings were not really human, to be used, etc. I have actually heard this out the mouth of a manager I worked for about Hispanics "they ware there to serve," and not in any kind of nice way, i.e. not meaning we are all there to serve.

It's sad that the selfish don't get to see how much they lose, by closing off and being ugly. I hope there's a way to get through that kind of mind that it's actually better/happier/more liberated in the sunshine.

[struggle4progress]

20. Romancing the Stone-Cold Killer: Ayn Rand and William Hickman

by Michael Prescott

... In December .. 1927, Hickman, nineteen ...managed to get custody of a twelve-year-old girl ... Mr. and Mrs. Parker received a series of ransom notes ... "When Mr. Parker paid .. he could see his daughter .. in the passenger seat ... As soon as the money was exchanged, the suspect drove off with the victim ... At the end of the street, Marion's corpse was dumped ... Her legs had been chopped off and her eyes .. wired open to appear .. still alive. Her .. organs had been cut out and pieces .. strewn all over .. Los Angeles" ..

In her notes, Rand complains .. Hickman has become the target ...

"The first thing that impresses me about the case is the .. rage of .. society against one man ... It is not the crime alone that has raised the fury of public hatred. It is .. a daring challenge to society ... It is the amazing picture of a man with no regard whatever for all that society holds sacred, and with a consciousness all his own. A man who really stands alone" ...

Although the American people showed no sympathy for Hickman, Ayn Rand certainly did:

"... He had a brilliant mind, a romantic, adventurous, impatient soul and a straight, uncompromising, proud character ... What had society to offer him? ... If he had any desires and ambitions -- what was the way before him? A long, slow, soul-eating, heart-wrecking toil ... A strong man can eventually trample society under his feet. That boy was not strong enough. But is that his crime? Is it his crime that he was too impatient, fiery and proud to go that slow way? That he was not able to serve, when he felt worthy to rule; to obey, when he wanted to command? ... "

http://michaelprescott.net/hickman.htm

[devilgrrl]

37. Oh isn't that something else?

:wtf:

:puke:

I read those book reviews - was she getting back at Bolsheviks or her cold and distant parents? What a freakshow.

[Bette Noir]

55. I don't usually use this language,

but that's some sick shit.

Kidnapping for ransom, murder, and mutilation of a corpse. Yeah, that's something to admire.

[snagglepuss]

90. That is numbing. I have always loathed her thinking. At first glance I was

shocked but within moments I realized it is simply where her philosophy (which I've always though is half-cocked)ends. But am am still shocked to read this demented thinking.

[ThoughtCriminal]

21. Atlas Shrugged - One Hour later...

Every Ayn Rand thread needs this cartoon:

[daleo]

26. Sometimes BTAF is brilliant. n/t

[eppur_se_muova]

46. Yes, it does.

I LOVE that cartoon!

[Libertas1776]

23. My sentiments are with Officer Barbrady

From the episode "Chickenlover"

At first I was happy to be reading. It seemed exciting and magical. And then I read this: 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand. I read every last word of this garbage, and because of this piece of shit, I'm never reading again!!!

[brentspeak]

24. Her followers actually believe THEY are brilliant, indispensable John Galts

I think we should call their bluff, and ask them to leave our society and form their own Galts' Gulch. When they don't see people begging for them to return, they'll know how unneeded they are.

[ThoughtCriminal]

29. I think we all know how that would turn out

"Lord of the Flies"

http://thoughtcrimewave.blogspot.com/2009/03/what-going-galt-would-really-be-really.html

[Poll_Blind]

43. In my experience with that type, you hit the nail on the head.

Majorly self-deluded, arrogant (but most concerning) manipulative and absolutely remorseless.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

25. The New Yorker printed a pic of a dinner party she had in the 60s.

Alan Greenspan was there. This was an article just a few years ago about Da Span.

Ick.

[jonnyblitz]

34. delete

responded to the wrong post.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

28. Alan Greenspan idolized her and was a member of her inner circle

according to the recent PBS program Frontline entitled "The Warning". I believe several others in Greenspan's entourage also were followers according to the program.

[jonnyblitz]

35. maybe that show is where i saw a picture of her attending

a swearing in ceremony for greenspan as head of some economic board for Nixon.

[Festivito]

30. I'd say she was in love with her daddy.

Hated those who hurt dad. When daddy gets old and her looks don't bring her her own daddy like lover she creates a world where sex is wildly free where she can have free sex with a daddy like figure and of course daddy's enemies are killed and disparaged. Besides, the books make a nice living.

[Nikki Stone1]

31. Rand was on diet pills when she wrote Atlas Shrugged. Keep that in mind, especially

when you read her never-ending diatribes. Diet pills at that time were pure amphetamine. She was essentially a legal speed addict.

[RebelOne]

70. For years, I was a legal speed addict

and believe me, those pills can really mess up your head. I ended up in psychotherapy.

[Odin2005]

33. That woman was a raving lunatic.

[Nikki Stone1]

44. She was a legal speed addict (diet pills) when she wrote "Atlas Shrugged"

No question.

[Hannah Bell]

39. Rand was white russian; she achieved prominence because she had connections

& rich backers who shared her economic philosophy & found her useful.

the excess psychologizing doesn't add anything useful, i think.

the default position of all upper classes (especially those dispossessed by the "rabble") is a feeling of superiority to the lower orders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_%C3%A9migr%C3%A9.

[unc70]

40. Helen Mirren gave a chilling movie version of Rand

Can't vouch for the accuracy of the movie, but it is certainly more approachable for me than having to revisit any of Rand's writings or those of her followers.

The Passion of Ayn Rand

I knew about Rand in the late 50's - early 60's, or more-accurately I knew her name and the titles of her works and that a lot of people seemed to think highly of her work. In high school, I tried to read her works, painfully plodding through enough to decide that none of it made any sense to me -- not the people, their motivations, their society, their actions, their justifications, nor anything else. Back then, I didn't know about her personal life or much context for her work except that somehow it was anti-communist, elitist, uncaring of others (maybe even hostile), and racist. But most of all, it did not make any sense -- and it didn't seem to be a satire or such (a la Orwell).

I now file her work near that of the Chicago School of Economics as attempts to justify one's own selfish behavior and total disregard for its impact on others, on the reality of the harm done to the rest of society.

[Poll_Blind]

42. I have met some of the Rand fanatics and believe me they are some scary folks.

This is one of those threads that if I hadn't had these personal experiences I would have just skipped over- I knew her name, I was vaguely familiar with her books (but hadn't read any) and normally it would have stopped there.

But over the last year or so I've actually met a handfull of hardcore Rand fanatics. They are as bad, or in some ways worse than even your hardcore dyed-in-the-wool NeoCons. The reason? Whereas NeoCons mostly delude themselves into believing a quasi-fascist authoritarian government (and its actions) are for the "good" of everyone, a hardcore Rand fanatic (and it's like Scientology, they pretty much only come in the fanatical flavor) doesn't bother with any national pretense: Literally, it is all about them.

This justification borders (if not crosses over) into a sort of codified sociopathy whose practitioners actions are only really limited by their desire for whatever their goals are.

If you come in contact with lots of people and you think you're talking to a hardcore Conservative or NeoCon, do a little fishing and mention Rand or ask if there are any books they found inspiring in their own political beliefs.

If Rand comes up run, just run.

My experiences with these folks is hopefully not indicative, I think it was basically a freak accident that I'd run across so many of them in such a short time. A fluke. But believe me they, especially the ones who've been into it for more than a few years, are like well-tuned sociopaths.

These people will fuck over you or anyone...anyone, to get what they want.

You could say it's practically a religious tenet for them. I want to point out that Objectivism has some arguable points (I'm being overly-nice here) but, like the history of Communism, it may have some workability on paper but once humans start practicing it they pervert it (even further) into something extremely freaky.

[undergroundpanther]

48. religious yes

Ayn Rand is adored by the Church of Satan BTW..


http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/SatObj.html

[redqueen]

54. I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you. (nt)

[Jenny_D]

49. Your experiences may well be indicative, because I've experienced the same..

"If you come in contact with lots of people and you think you're talking to a hardcore Conservative or NeoCon, do a little fishing and mention Rand or ask if there are any books they found inspiring in their own political beliefs.

If Rand comes up run, just run."

Indeed. I've not known many Rand fanatics, but the few I have had the misfortune to encounter were the most obnoxiously egotistical sociopathic people I've ever known. Her books attract a certain personality type, a type I (and anyone else who is SANE) would rather avoid.

[Bette Noir]

56. A friend of mine went into therapy with a psychologist who had been Ayn Rand's lover for years.

My friend barely got out of the experience alive. This "therapist" just about drove her to suicide.

[Jackpine Radical]

98. Nathaniel Branden by any chance?

Now, THERE's a piece of work.

[Occulus]

58. "once humans start practicing it they pervert it"

Bioshock. This is a first-person-shooter game for the PC, 360, and PS3. It is, without a doubt, the very best deconstruction of Rand's so-called "philosophy" I've ever seen.

From the game's opening moments:

I am Andrew Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question: is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?

No, says the man in Washington; it belongs to the poor.
No, says the man in the Vatican; it belongs to God.
No, says the man in Moscow; it belongs to everyone.

I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose....

Rapture.

A city where the artist would not fear the censor, where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality, where the great would not be constrained by the small.

And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city as well."

Rapture is a city with... problems. In the game's backstory, a dockworker in Neptune's Bounty (one of the sections of Rapture) discovers a deep-sea slug with an amazing property- when it bites, it injects stem cells into the wound that seem capable of regenerating damaged tissues. After some experimentation, Rapture's scientists discover that this substance- which they call ADAM- can also be used to rewrite genetic code. This gives rise to ever-more-powerful abilities based on genetic mutation (would anyone like to hatch bees from their arms?); what begins as a set of harmless body modifications quickly becomes weaponized and on New Year's Eve, 1959, civil war breaks out. These abilities, called "plasmids", are powered by a substance called EVE, and it is the fight over control of these resources that eventually leads to Rapture's downfall.

Anything goes in Rapture and everything is for sale- even oxygen. The free market was allowed to go its own way there, and utter horror resulted.

[undergroundpanther]

47. And Greenspan was an objectivist

These ego driven and manipulative writers like Ayn Rand,Leo Strauss and Eric Vogelin
The shit they write appeals to the most shitty things about people that is why conservatives love them.It justifies the streak of narcissism,psychopathy and authoritarianism that is found in the personality type of many on the right..


In the early 1950s, Greenspan began an association with famed novelist and philosopher Ayn Rand that would last until her death in 1982.<9> He wrote for Rand’s newsletters and authored several essays in her book Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal. Rand stood beside him at his 1974 swearing-in as Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers.


Vogelen

http://www.financialsense.com/stormwatch/geo/pastanalysis/2009/0706.html
Strauss
http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=24239



“However fiercely opposed one may be to the present order, an old respect for the idea of order itself often prevents people from distinguishing between order and those who stand for order, and leads them in practice to respect individuals under the pretext of respecting order itself.”
Antonin Artaud

[KatyMan]

66. Nice pic

that looks like a real fun crowd... :)

[ooglymoogly]

51. I thought the shallow, simplistic books of Ayn Rand were a reverse parody of superman

comic books without the pictures (though back in the day, I read them all); Where superman was soulless and instead of using his powers for the good and helping folks took what he wanted for his own self aggrandizement and left the world in a waste. Ayn Rand was a horrible person. This op reveals things I did not know about her. big KR

[The Green Manalishi]

53. Someone had a great quote, couldn't find it

so here is a paraphrase:
"There are two books that can result in a warped,wasted and useless life if a youth takes them too seriously or thinks they have any bearing on reality; one is filled with heroes, trolls, monsters and wizards in a completely unrealistic world. The other one besides Atlas Shrugged is Lord Of The Rings".
The original quote was funnier, I hope they post it.

[ooglymoogly]

59. here it is

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

[JRicks_GA]

60. Here's the original quote...

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

[Chulanowa]

61. I'm not sure about the source, but I think this is what you're looking for

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

[The Green Manalishi]

130. Thank You! all of youse :-)

Now, who said that?

[wicket]

62. LOVE IT!!!!

:rofl:

[MrScorpio]

63. My review of THE FOUNTAINHEAD

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x7372673

[onehandle]

67. The Fountainhead in 5 Seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8fkdBz2bds

[ooglymoogly]

72. Too funny nt

[BrklynLiberal]

83. That is great.

There are several others that are also funny...

[ooglymoogly]

64. Those kids who read this twaddle and fell for it are now fucked up

Those kids who never heard of Ayn Rand, or never read her, or read the crap and saw it for what it was, dodged a bullet.

[GillesDeleuze]

77. eh, i read it as a kid. thought it was neat and self contained

but it never jived with reality.


so im a socialist.

[w8liftinglady]

65. I am almost afraid to admit-I was one of those misguided youth

As an "intellectual in a small country town",I was hungry for stimulation.After reading "Anthem" in high school,I pursued more of Rand's writing,and became fascinated with Objectivism.Now,remember that this was prior to the internet,and a few of us from my college would gather to espouse thoughts and debate.I still couldn't make it right in my head about the total shunning of religion,and the lack of empathy for the downtrodden,but I didn't want to appear weak to my contemporaries.Eventually,life tought me many lessons that contradicted her teaching,like when I had to have food stamps to feed my children,and use the county hospital to have my first baby.Luckily,I wasn't permanently damaged by her twisted thinking :)

[edc]

75. Don't feel too bad.

Hosannas for Uber capitalism are the psychological chains forged by America's economic elites for their brainwashed masses. They'd never subject themselves to such insecurity. They prefer corporatist socialism for themselves.

[onehandle]

68. The icon of jerks. nt

[ooglymoogly]

69. A few parodies for your amusement, a couple truly funny

Before getting your panties in a snort, Misspellings not mine.

Heinlein:
Very little about the book changes politically, but Dagny is a bisexual
redhead with two doctorates (history and mathematics, most likely). The
tedious John Galt speech is eliminated, to be replaced with scattered bits
of wisdom spouted in numerous chapters. Lazarus Long shows up near the end,
revealing that Galt is unknowingly the son of Andrew Jackson Libby and his
own female clone resulting from a bizarre time-travel incident involving a
trip to Oz and two sentient computers.

All the good little objectivists get together in a spaceship and found their
own planetary colony, where they live with a curious mix of high technology
and untamed frontier wilderness. There are lots of pregnant PhDs and tons
of babies, none of whom are really dealt with in the story until they have
reached puberty.

The prose is actually *readable*.



Tom Clancy:
The John Galt speech is retained, but it is now a 90-page treatise on how
*exactly* the new Galt generator works, including a description of the
reactor, the military organization manning it, and the radar arrays and
AWACS which support it.

Dagny realizes, finally, at the end of the book, that Roman Catholicism is
the answer to all her problems, and that the Biblical rants against killing
really mean "thou shalt not kill except to protect the national security".

All the objectivists learn the error of their ways, and join the Republican
Party.



Robert L. Forward:
Galt's generator is described in excruciating detail (more so even that in
Clancy). The reader giggles at the silly liberties Forward has taken with
quantum physics, until s/he reaches the end and notes the journal articles
cited, and that the diagrams actually look *plausible*...

Characterization is lessened, but fortunately the sex scenes are softened or
eliminated.


Spider Robinson:
All objectivists coming to Galt's Gulch enter into a communal hive-mind,
wherein they are all completely *together*, yet in a bizarre dichotomy still
completely retain all of their individuality. They spend the entire story
trying to get everyone else in the world to join the Mind, as that would
surely solve all of the world's problems. Lots of sex (per Heinlein), but
now the women *and* the men are bisexual.


Frank Herbert:
Galt is a fluke, an accidental result of a breeding experiment by the
villainous politicos and favor-buying industrialists. After realizing that
he is perfect, and was bred that way, he escapes his breeders and creates
Galt's Gulch, where he becomes the messianic figure for a group of rednecks
who already lived in the gulch.

Dagny becomes his wife, but in name only. He is actually in love with one
of his redneck concubines.



Stephen King:
The book is even longer, but chapters average three pages in size. "Who is
John Galt?" is present even *more* repetitiously, but is always printed in
italics as the random thoughts of one of the main characters. Galt himself
wears a pair of sandalwood sixguns, is missing a couple of fingers, and is
constantly getting the objectivists to "cry his pardon" or something.



Michael Moorcock:
Galt and Dagny are a manifestation of a pair of multidimensional beings
known as The Eternal Capitalists. They spend their time battling the forces
of both Order and Chaos, but get through it all via sheer ruthlessness.



L. Neil Smith:
Not much difference, except the Galt Speech is shorter. Galt's "generator"
actually "generates" large caliber bullets at an impressive velocity, and this
is used to great effect by Dagny in the rescue scene in the end.



Nancy Friday:
Focuses on Dagny's sexual fantasies about being beaten severely and raped
simultaneously by John Galt, Hank Rearden, and for some bizarre reason
(she's never been attracted to him!) Orren Boyle.

[NICO9000]

71. I tried reading "The Fountainhead" about 30 years ago

When I was probably 18 or 19. I had no political awareness at the time, but I couldn't get past the first 100 pages or so. I knew nothing about her, but the thing just became tedious and I had to bring it back to the library. The more I learn about her these days, it's painfully obvious to me why the Republicans love her so much. Just another selfish, "I've got mine, so fuck you" jerk.

[Mari333]

73. Thank God someone wrote this because

this woman was a complete whackadoodle who saw hard ons as skyscrapers. waccckkky old broad .sue me for my lack of political correctness.

[thelordofhell]

74. I read "Atlas Shrugged", it's the funniest comedy ever written

Until you meet people that take it seriously.

Whenever I meet any of these idiots, I just laugh as hard and loud as I can, then I slap them in the face. What a bunch of cowardly dolts.

[JPZenger]

79. An atheist who is adored by archconservatives

[AtheistCrusader]

84. A pro-choice atheist, at that.

They never seem to talk about that.

Edited for potentially inflammatory non-sequitur. I've given up being nice about the abortion debate with conservatives.

[AtheistCrusader]

80. This is not accurate.

"In The Fountainhead, published in 1943, a heroic architect called Howard Roark designs a housing project for the poor—not out of compassion but because he wants to build something mighty. When his plans are slightly altered, he blows up the housing project, saying the purity of his vision has been contaminated by evil government bureaucrats. He orders the jury to acquit him, saying: "The only good which men can do to one another and the only statement of their proper relationship is—Hands off!""

The premise is monstrous for other reasons, but the description above is not accurate, and part of combating this sort of bullshit requires an honest understanding of the material.

1. The protagonist, Howard Roark is not popular as an architect, but is portrayed as eminently skillful. He agrees to design the housing project for another architect, Peter Keating, with a contract that the design will be built as he created it. No modifications.
2. The design was contaminated by 'architect by committee', wherein other architects made cosmetic and other (portrayed as) feel-good changes to the design, which only increased it's cost, beyond the means of the target tenants.
3. Roark then dynamites the construction site, because his contract was violated.

This is, as I said, monstrous, but for an entirely different reason than painted above. The building is under construction. Supposedly, conservatives hail personal property rights above all else, yet they applaud the destruction of the housing project, for violation of the contract held between Roark and Keating. It is not Roark's property to dynamite. His proper recourse for breach of contract is the courts, not explosives.

Beyond that, you must accept certain conditions, as a reader, that for instance, no other architect could positively contribute to the building's design, or that Roark is actually emminently capable, and the design is perfect the moment it came off his drafting table.

Rand has painted a scenario that will not exist in the wild, and constructed the scenario in such a way that conservatives will overlook the destruction of personal property, to laud the protagonist's ideals. I would call this hypocritical, but the point needs not be demonstrated, with examples such as the murder of Dr. Tiller, or the destruction of the Alfred Murrah federal building, by far right elements.

[redqueen]

81. Never understood why anyone read her books.

Just hearing about them for others was offputting enough for me. Bleah.

My sister was a fan, at least for a while. Also the only person from our Dem family to ever vote Republican for any length of time. She's come to her senses now though. :)

[FarLeftFist]

82. Ahhh Yes, those were the days before schizophrenia was diagnosed.

[katty]

85. Rand: perpetually suffering fr PTSD and unbalanced, she

managed to make a damn good living by taking many others down the crazy path with her-crazy paid off for Rand, that's for sure.

[Mira]

88. Fascinating! Thank you for posting it. K&R

[Lost-in-FL]

89. I so want to read her new biography by Keller. nt

[redqueen]

91. I love this part:

She said the United States should be a "democracy of superiors only," with superiority defined by being rich. Well, we got it. As the health care crisis has shown, today, the rich have the real power: The vote that matters is expressed with a checkbook and a lobbyist. We get to vote only for the candidates they have pre-funded and receive the legislation they have preapproved. It's useful—if daunting—to know that there is a substantial slice of the American public who believe this is not a problem to be put right, but morally admirable.

[fascisthunter]

94. There is Definitely something wrong in the head of those who Believe her BS

hell... she was a nut herself and a sociopath.

[my future me]

96. Read Anthem . . .

mumble agrily for a week

[Beregond2]

97. The only Rand disciple I ever knew personally

ended-up being intitutionalized for mental problems, and finally died of amphetamine abuse. Like most of her followers, he was an ineffectual loser, with delusions of grandeur. His brother was exactly the same, and died a few days later.

Scott Peck brought up the same point that a lot of you did: the lack of children in her books, and how that opened his eyes to the absurdity of her philosophy.

[myrna minx]

100. Duer Telly Savalas made this wonderful Rand spoof in 2005:

This is a classic! :rofl:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4973593#4975243


Ella turned towards the window, folded her arms, and said, "Kent, I cannot understand why you read that drivel. If there's anything worse than a bad political philosopher, it's a bad political philosopher who writes bad novels to present her flawed ideas. It's bad enough when she writes nonfiction works that foist assertions and conjecture on the reader and tries to pass it off as 'reason', but when she tries to dress it up in a fictional work with one-dimensional characters and a cheesy plot, it's downright putrid. I'd go so far as to say that her writings dishonor the thousands of years of evolution required for humans to develop language skills.

"The worst element of her 'writing' is how utterly ridiculous the dialogue is. In real life people converse with one another, they don't take turns delivering speeches to one another. If she'd ever spent anytime actually interacting with another human being who wasn't clinically insane, she'd know this and it would be reflected in her writing.

"Furthermore, don't you think she could go to more effort to be a bit more terse? I mean, Jesus Christ, I've seen bumperstickers that are more nuanced than one of her novels, so I don't see why she can't be more succinct in the exposition of her cheap little 'ideas'. Does it really take an 800 page novel to say "guvmint bad, capitalism good"?

"Face it, Kent. She's a second-rate hack that makes Jackie Collins look like Dostoevsky. Put that shit down and do something a bit more intellectually engaging. For instance, there's a Dukes of Hazzard marathon on the country network. Try watching that instead."

Kent set the book on the table and glanced up at Ella.

"Ella," he said, "I see your collectivist friends have poisoned your mind with these bizarre ideas about word economy and multi-dimensional characters. Such things are only devices to enslave the Individualist. Every word the Individualist says is a gift to the universe, so the universe benefits the more he speaks. Hence all this silliness about being brief when trying to make a point does not apply to the Individualist.

"Let's be clear, Ella, that when I say the Individualist gives a gift to the world by expressing his thoughts, it is not altruism that motivates the giving of this gift. No. No. No. Altruism is an evil sentiment that only results in atrocities like child labor laws and homeless people being fed. Thus the Individualist is ego-driven. By satisfying my own desires and showing complete contempt for the needs of others, I make the laissez-faire capitalist system work as it should and the benefits rain down on everyone. Although many economists prefer to use the term 'trickle down.'

"For instance, when I enriched your life last week by giving you a 45 minute lecture on the necessity of abolishing the capital gains tax, I didn't do it because I wanted to please you. Rather I did it because I love the sound of my own voice. The fact that you were enlightened by my observations is only secondary. Nevertheless it demonstrates my point about how being selfish is superior to being altruistic. Had I been altruistic and payed heed to you wish for me to...what was that phrase you used repeatedly? 'Shut the fuck up', I believe it was? Well, had I done that, then you'd have spent the rest of your life unaware of the great thoughts that course through my mind on an hourly basis.

"Yes, Ella. It amazes me how unwilling the collectivist mind is to accept the truth. Why wasn't it just last week when you were claiming that society should chain down the Individual by using some of his resources to aid victims of Hurricane Katrina? After I was able to overcome my feeling of horror and disgust that you would suggest denying the Individual his Freedom, I successfully rebutted your point by observing that A equals A, therefore it logically follows that the so called victims should fend for themselves and not depend on the altruism of collectivists. Rather than daring to challenge this impenetrable logic, you simply dismissed my comments by calling me an asshole. Were I a petty collectivist, I might have taken offense at that remark. However, I am a noble Individual and know that your hurtful words were motivated by your envy of my superior intellect. For it is individuals such as I who propel society forward.

"Um...the Individual's freedom should be regarded as...um...Egoism is the one true...um...er...what was it we were talking about, Ella?"

[mitchum]

101. She was remarkable; there has never been another cult leader with so little charisma

A crazy ass bitch who couldn't write
writing unreadable books
to be read by very stupid people

[femrap]

102. I read a biography of her

a number of years ago. She was taking dexamyl...one per day. But I think when she did Galt's speech toward the end of 'Atlas Shrugged,' she was maybe doing more.

Dexamyl was legal....hell doctors prescribed it to chubby teenagers.

I read Atlas twice and took a totally different view from those who seem to hate her so much today. I believe she detested bureaucracy...which is in both gov't and corporations.

If she were a man, the spittle spewed with such a vengeance would be less so.

Oh....and let's not forget how everyone in Hollywood and otherwise is saying how they believe in and admire Polanski. Hell, just yesterday I read that Gore Vidal said the 13-year old girl was a 'hooker.' Now if she were a hooker, why have to drug her? And Johann complains that Ayn put a sick monster on a pedestal. What are we doing with Polanski, a pedophile rapist?

Have at it.

[baldguy]

103. Dorothy Parker was right.

Atlas Shrugged "...is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force."

[JPZenger]

107. Great quote above

[rantormusing]

106. Whatever you may say,

she's much better than Dan Brown. At least she had stamina too finish her books without sounding desperate to be done. It seems that the last one hundred pages or so of a Dan Brown book, it literally leaks from the pages that he was no longer interested and wished it was done. I like We the Living, it's the only Rand book that doesn't smash you in the head to get the political point across. It's almost like a VC Andrews novel, a good VC Andrews novel.

[mitchum]

128. That may be the greatest "damning with faint praise" I have ever read...

"It's almost like a VC Andrews novel, a good VC Andrews novel"

Nicely done :)

[Norrin Radd]

110. kr

[saskawoo]

119. I like her books

Do I have a shrine to Ayn Rand that I worship at daily? No. Do I think she did some things that contradicted the ideals she espoused? Yes. Do I think she was wrong about some things? Yes. Did objectivism become cult-like? Yes. Do I think people deserve to die in a train disaster because they whine? No.

Still, after reading this article, I don't think it's a really great analysis. For instance, I fail to see what her heroes had in common with sleazeballs like Madoff or any Wall St. crook. They all worked hard to get where they were, and not one cheated or lied or hurt anyone in the process. They did not want to be "worshiped" by the masses, as the article claims. They just wanted to be compensated for their work.

Not all of the heroes are "geniuses." What about the electrician who works on Roark's buildings? And when she first moves to Galt's Gulch, Dagny doesn't have servants, she has to do menial labor to earn gold to make her way before she could ever start a company or build anything like she had on the outside. And she has no problem with this.

It's not wrong in her novels to help someone. But it's not right to hold a gun to someone's head and take what they have just because you want it. If it's wrong for billionaires then it should be wrong for everyone. Corporate welfare is still welfare. The criminals in her books are businessmen who suck who demand help from the government (in her books they didn't go on golf and spa trips on the taxpayers' dime, but maybe if she were more creative....) These are the same types of people who are often vilified, rightfully, on this site. Maybe there is some common ground there.

I'm sure I will get flamed and called stupid for this post, but that's ok.

[sui generis]

121. Agreed - and I've got your back if anyone brings a torch

The shame of it is that she WAS a complex character herself and we want our villains and heroes to be shiny and only one color and one dimension.

The fact that idiot republicans adopt the most broken and inconsistent parts of her ideas tells you more about republicans than about Ayn Rand.

Some complete slack jawed idiot here called me a randian once as if that were an insult, but I reiterate it was a slack jawed idiot who said that.

Some of her writing was impulsive and reactionary and likely as much a result of amphetamine limbic side effects as any other irrational spew born of short temper and impatience. Ultimately, I like Nancy Kress (Beggars in Spain) much much better, and I think there might have been a dialogue between the two.

I don't believe we are all created equal. Given the same sets of opportunities and challenges different people are going to have vastly different outcomes, and not all of that arises from cultural conditioning or any other social factor, and that IS a real fact of real life.

Just the same, I also believe we have obligations to the humanity that evolved us here, and to future generations to take care of each other without regard to class, without resorting to judgment, and without referring to some odd idea of innate superiority as a justification for destructive behavior or apathy.

In OUR rush to judge her we overlook the very valuable pieces of her philosophy, and I think that is as selfish and shortsighted as the selfishness and shortsightedness we decry. Gotta hate somethin', and like republicans we don't typically care to deal with nuance, or with anything but simple villains and heroes.

[mitchum]

127. Odd that the tin-eared scribbler Alice Rosenbaum was never able to create...

characters who were not one dimensional.
Actually, it's not odd at all...since she had no fucking literary talent.
Miserable novelist.
Miserable philosopher.
Miserable human being.

[redqueen]

125. So you are opposed to a social safety net?

"If it's wrong for billionaires then it should be wrong for everyone. Corporate welfare is still welfare."

[Tommy_Carcetti]

120. Is it just me, or does anyone else think of Livia Soprano whenever they see a picture of Ayn Rand?

Although, I will say of the two I find Livia the more likeable. Which says a lot.

[sui generis]

126. oh the villagers always love a good monster

I read "we the living" when I was a wee bairn, and what I learned from that experience was that you don't have to like people to like their ideas and you don't even have to like all of their ideas.

It was an exercise in learning to think for myself, without having to align myself with an entire philosophy or credo, or conversely, reject an entire philosophy or credo.

[wicket]

134. kick

:kick: