Statute Would Require Public Schools to Offer Christmas Music

[The Straight Story]

Statute Would Require Public Schools to Offer Christmas Music


SACRAMENTO, CA - A initiative requiring public schools to offer Christmas music has entered circulation for petition signature-gathering , the Secretary of State's Office announced Monday.

Following is the language of the proposed statute:

Requires public schools to offer an opportunity for students to listen to or perform Christmas music during the holiday season. Requires schools to notify students' parents or guardians twenty-one days before the music will be played or performed so that students can opt-out of listening to or performing the music. Provides that a civil lawsuit may be brought to enforce these requirements. Summary of estimate by Legislative Analyst and Director of Finance of fiscal impact on state and local government: Probably minor annual costs to school districts. (09-0030.)

Proponents of the initiative have until March 29, 2010, to gather signatures of 433,971 registered voters in order to qualify it for the ballot.

http://www.news10.net/news/story.aspx?storyid=69747&catid=2

[Marr]

1. I'm sure they'll be equally supportive of a bill that does the same for Ramadan.

Or other religions. These sorts of people are never hypocritical.

I can probably whip up a good Spaghetti Monster song in a minute. I'd like that to be mandated listening on his Noodly day.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

2. you know what we do?

At the Unitarian church T-giving potluck?
After the dishes are done we sing xmas carols.
Then when we get tired of that, we sing xmas carols to "House of the Rising Sun".
:rofl: LOTS of things can be sung to House of the Rising Sun.

[msanthrope]

13. You are right--"Adeste Fidelis" rocks that way! n/t

[The Straight Story]

3. Hell, how about we keep all ideologies and such out of schools?

Teach reading, writing, history (minus religion since it has not impact on history), and math.

And keep your culture, ideals, etc out of schools.

Because the only things of value to society that we should teach in schools are the items mentioned above.

Culture does not belong in school - from religion to marriage to whatever.

[Book Lover]

29. "Culture does not belong in school"

Are you sure you are 100% behind that statement?

[FiveGoodMen]

4. REQUIRE?

:puke:
:puke:
:puke:
:puke:
:puke:
:puke:
:puke:
:puke:
:puke:

[KamaAina]

5. Grandma got run over by a reindeer

Walking home from our house Christmas Eve...

edit: followed by (tune: "Walking In A Winter Wonderland") Later on, if we wanna,/We can dress like Madonna... :P

[niyad]

31. "we three kings of orient are, tried to smoke a rubber cigar"

"it was loaded, it exploded---BOOM, the end of our song"

[derby378]

6. Hopefully it won't turn out like this...

http://msxb-d5.vo.llnw.net/VIDCONTENT/VIDEO/2e/b97cf440-0645-44bc-ac70-d183076e4e2e_COMEDYCENTRAL_SOUTHPARK_110_processed_Telecide_SmSmoother_Msharpen_640x480_2997_Preview.wmv

[KamaAina]

7. Oh, it's here! Cool! I get to mess with the signature gatherers!

Sincerely yours,

Mickey Mouse

[WCGreen]

8. Flame away all you want but I don't think singing Hark the Herald

Angles Sing for a Christmas celebration is all that religious. It's more about tradition, about connecting to the past through those tradition.

I know people can get upset and take offense over overt reaction to beloved religious myths.

Those who believe will still believe and those of us who don't but appreciate the tradition of the music will still feel that way after the holiday is over.

There is a point where tradition overtakes dogma and I do believe that the Little Drummer Boy is a good song with a nice message for a myth.

If someone wants to take this little story and elevate it to superstitious status than that is their prerogative.

We do live in a free society where the expression of and success of those ideas in the market place dictate a whole lot of more sway than preachers and idiot tv hosts trying to make a political point with superstition.

[The Straight Story]

10. If you sing that, it might hurt someone

Kind of like when I was a kid and we sung the dreidel song. I could not believe that we were celebrating something Jewish in class all because one of the kids in class was Jewish and we wanted to be tolerant of his beliefs.

Tolerance is best left to parents....

Years later I am still in therapy because we celebrated the ideals and beliefs of someone Else's culture.

[snagglepuss]

11. +1

[MineralMan]

12. Angles?

Actually that is a distinctly Christian song. As such, it's inappropriate for schools. There are many secular Christmas songs. They're just fine.

No religious songs in school, unless songs from all religions are OK. How about Hindu songs. How does that sound to you?

[WCGreen]

19. Find to me..

It's elevating these holiday songs to beyond the simple tradition that makes them more problematic.

There is a lot of beautiful music inspired by belief. I can still enjoy and appreciate a song that is rooted in say gaelic tradition even though I do not believe in that particular myth.

Youu have to remember that most of the music of the world until recently was inspired by spiritual belief.

It is the other side in this so called war on Christmas that is being unreasonable. They want everything Christian period. I'm just saying I don't want to have a ban on any song. It is up to the teacher, or better yet the family, to discuss the musical tradition involved with why we sing these songs at this time of the year. MONEY!!!

[Viking12]

14. “We were having Christmas without Jesus” said the referendum's author

Clear violation of the first prong of the Lemon test. this has nothing to do with "tradition" and everything to do with the promotion of Jesus

Source:
http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/15380/christmas-without-jesus/

[WCGreen]

21. My point is that music is music.

Should we not enjoy the music of Ba because it as based on celebrating Jesus?

All this other crap is about political power and that is how to fight initiatives such as this, with political skill.

[Viking12]

22. Ummm, maybe you miss the point of the intitiative. It is ALL about political power

It has nothing to do with the music.

There is nothing that prohibits schools from performing or appreciating 'religious' music as a part of a holiday concert.

[WCGreen]

28. You are probably correct.,

I have been o preoccupied with my own little problems that I thought I could slide out and not cause a shit storm.

I do remember that our High school choir have a tradition of singing may the lord bless you and keep you after every performance.

It was about this time that I started to question the place of religion as it relates to public displays.

A very thoughtful and grizzled liberal from back in those beginning days of teachers starting to challenge public schools on how they deal with morality and such.

Mr. Bender took me aside and asked if I liked the song and I said yea I guess. then he asked if I was thinking about being christian when we sang the song and I stood there for a movement and said not really, more concerned to getting out to the parking lot and have a joint.

He said Well, WC, if looks like you have this all in the right perspective.

[niyad]

32. what part of "required" did you not get?

[LeftyMom]

9. The majority of students at my California HS were Buddhists.

:shrug:

[The Straight Story]

16. I wish we had had some back in my day

At my school. I was able to learn more about other cultures and how they celebrated because thedre were students at our school. We DID learn about shintoism, buddhism, etc in general - but when it came to celebrating holidays and culture we usually focused on fellow students and tried to be inclusive of them (ie, we spent more time doing things relating to their culture than just classroom lessons than we did on cultures not represented by student population).

For some reason, to me, back then it was not a big deal to learn about others and their religion and how it relates to society.

[LeftyMom]

18. I grew up in South Sacramento.

It's a big shining model of cultural tolerance, exceptionally poor driving, and the occasional gang shooting. And the potlucks were fantastic.

Outside of the usual hokey assemblies occasionally inflicted upon us, we didn't need outside intervention to notice that we lived in a diverse and interesting society. We learned to appreciate that by talking to and interacting with our classmates and neighbors in that diverse society.

[MineralMan]

15. For Easter: Christ The Lord Is Ris'n Today

Alleluia
Believe in him or you will pay.
Alleluia
Off to Hell with Jews and Muslims
Alleluia
And all of your atheist cousins.
Alleluia


There's an Easter song the kids can sing.

[The Straight Story]

17. If you see religion simply as a negative

Than perhaps you did not get exposed to enough of it in school.

We were never taught a judgmental attitude towards others in school - when we studied Japan and Shintoism it was in a respectful manner and how it related to them and their culture. In the US, most were Christian - and when we learned about that religion and it's impact it was not in a judgmental way either but in relation to the predominant culture here.

All of our presidents, most of our congress, etc, throughout our history have ties to some sect of the Christian faith. Why not learn about that and see how it has influenced our history (and am not saying paint it in a good light, but to ignore it's influence is to ignore our own history - just like to ignore how Buddhism has had an influence in Tibet would be wrong.)

Being a melting pot I think we need to spend time on all faith and cultures, and in school districts that are heavy in one particular culture I don't see the harm in allowing kids to celebrate that - whether it be muslim, Indian, Buddhist, Atheist, etc.

[Silent3]

20. My negative attitude comes from exposure, not lack thereof.

The more I learn about religion, the less sense it makes. It's irrational.

This is a separate issue from tolerance -- I can behave with civil tolerance towards others regardless of their beliefs so long as they afford me the same respect.

I can also think that what they believe in is irrational and absurd, say so out loud, and I'm fine with those others having the same freedom to respond in kind about my lack of religious belief if they so choose.

If you think that what's missing is deeper knowledge, or just meeting nice religious people and getting warm and fuzzy feelings, I don't see how that would make a difference for me.

[MineralMan]

30. My friend, I simply stated the core message of Christianity.

Believe or burn in hell. It's right there in the New Testament. You can't have missed it.

I reject such coercion as nothing more than tyranny. You're welcome to believe whatever you are able to believe. I choose another path, and will not be bullied by religion.

As for my education with regard to religion, I learned Matthew by heart at age 14...the entire book. I'm very well-educated in the tenets of Christianity, thanks. Also in other major religions.

Read the Constitution. The government may not favor any religion over any other. Schools are a branch of the government. The fact speaks for itself.

You don't like my parody? I'll live with that.

[JerseygirlCT]

23. Oh brother

I say this as someone who really wishes some of this hadn't turned into a big deal.

There is a rather large amount of choral music that is religious in theme. I'd hate for kids not to be able to learn these.

OTOH, this bullying stuff is ludicrous. Just ludicrous. It seems there's no end to how far from sanity some people will travel just to secure their image of themselves as put-upon.

[KamaAina]

26. Kids can still learn choral music

but it shouldn't be required. Can't be, constitutionally.

[JerseygirlCT]

27. No the required is just as stupid

as absolutely cannot.

Totally agree.

[donco6]

24. If the initiative is specific to "Christmas" music, -

I don't see how it would stand a constitutionality test.

It might work if it just said "religious music during holiday seasons."

[SoCalDem]

25. There are bazillions of "Holiday Songs" that are not overtly religious

and that could easily be performed. What rankles people is when the programs are all religious music.. That's perfectly okay in parochial schools, but not all that acceptable in PUBLIC schools.

Schools would do themselves a big favor to just treat that part of the year as "Winter/New Year" holiday, and let the individuals celebrate it any way they want.

Back when I was a kid, Christmas/Easter holidays were not as politically tinged, and no one was particularly "poutraged" at everything, so it made no difference to most people.. Everyone was just happy to see people in a good mood, and to have time off :)

[niyad]

33. I am so glad to know that CA has so few problems that this is actually a serious issue.

I wonder if these are the same idiots with the new "no divorce" bill they are trying to get on the ballot?