PET PEEVE: People who use "Nazi" as a way to describe people & laws they don't like.

[LynneSin]

I say BULLSHIT!

And it's done here at DU too.

Unless a group of people are rounding up a few million people and forcing them to do hardcore manual labor only to end up in an oven where they are killed, then Nazi is not the appropriate word to use.

Calling someone a Nazi because they support a law or piece of legislation one may not agree with is just so uncool. And it's not that someone doesn't have the right to disagree, but using (or calling someone) Nazi is too harsh and shows a great deal of disrespect to those whose fate were cruelly wiped out at the hands of a Nazi regime.

I thought this was a progressive website - we should know better.

[zbdent]

1. Bach to ze kamps mit you,

schwein ...

[LynneSin]

3. Brook ton of CPU kamps with you pig

Babelfish has it's limits

[JonQ]

2. I've been over this a couple of times with other DUers

don't expect to change many minds.

Basically I explained the difference between actual nazis and those called nazis and they agreed that it was totally unfair to compare people they like to nazis, but those other guys (that they don't like) deserve it, because they're nazis.

It went on like this for a while then I gave up.

[LeftishBrit]

4. My pet peeve is specifically when it's used to mean 'annoyingly bossy in petty matters'

E.g. 'health Nazi', 'grammar Nazi', 'smoking Nazi', 'feminazi' (that's one of the worst!), etc.

I don't care for 'Godwinizing' in general; but this particular usage trivializes the word Nazi out of all recognition.

[LynneSin]

6. +1

:D

[meegbear]

Like this?

[LynneSin]

7. Only you would find a reference from the one TV show that made Nazis look pleasant

:hug:

[meegbear]

16. BWAH-HAHAHAHAHA!!

:hi:

[LynneSin]

43. You got that Col. Klink going on there

:loveya:

You just need a monocle. I think you'd look great with a monocle.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

5. Nice post, hitler.

:eyes:

:evilgrin:

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

8. What a Peeve Nazi...

We love you Lynne!

[LynneSin]

15. I prefer referencing Kitler instead

[Burma Jones]

9. Blame Seinfeld

[LynneSin]

10. That episode was cute for about 2 minutes

Now I just find it one of the most annoying episodes out there.

[HughMoran]

11. Nazi

Can I at least call the Republicans "bigot Nazi zombies"?

[KG]

12. no soup for you.

[Ian David]

13. You know who ELSE would say that?

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. Bullshit.

There were no deathcamps in 1929 - but there WERE Nazis in 1929.

There were no deathcamps in 1940 - but the Nazis had already invaded 5 countries by then.

What I hate are people who decry comparisons to Nazis and fascists by making the false contrast between the END result of the Nazi regime and the small steps into Nazism that have the potential to lead to those end results.

Buchanwald started as a concentration camp in 1933. It was not a death camp. It held political prisoners.

Sorta like Gitmo.

The fact that Gitmo is not a death camp does not make it any less a concentration camp.

As a progressive, YOU should know better. Watch the PROGRESS from authoritarianism to Nazism, as I do, and then tell me there is nothing to it.

[LynneSin]

17. Last time I checked Obama is authorizing moving people out of Gitmo

But whatever.

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. Which he would not be doing if it was NOT a concentration camp

and an affront to humanity.

He didn't authorize or build it - he's CLOSING it. The American Nazis in the GOP are the ones who created it, and who have been fighting tooth and nail to keep it open.

But whatever.

[jobycom]

20. bingo.

[RetroLounge]

60. + 1

:hi:

RL

[Thothmes]

61. Sort like Manzanar

[jobycom]

18. I hate it when people mythologize the word Nazi.

Some people act like the word ONLY applies to someone who kills millions in concentration camps, and so they want to never use it. if you never use the word, you lose the lesson associated with it, which is that otherwise decent people can blindly follow a demagogue into committing the worst atrocities.

The word should be used to apply to everyday occurences, because that's where Nazism worked. Most Nazis didn't round up millions for hard labor or extermination. They shuffled papers, or cooked omelettes, or went about their daily lives doing normal, everyday little things while the leaders they refused to oppose enslaved and slaughtered tens of millions. To me, that's the essence of the lesson we learn from the Nazis--the worst atrocities are committed when people hide behind the little details.

If the word is to be a lesson rather than an archaic exhibit in a museum, it should be used.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

21. used APPROPRIATELY

Yes, absolutely. Using it for meter cops or smoking bans is ridiculous.

[jobycom]

27. You never know until you try it out.

The word is useful for defining the limits of a discussion, if nothing else.

[Uncle Joe]

31. I agree with you as well, for that matter I feel the same way about the word gate.

Watergate was a serious political scandal; which threatened the foundation of our democratic republic, now it's used any time a politician stubs their toe and I believe this has the conscious or subconscious long term affect of demeaning the serious nature of Nixon's crimes.

[RaleighNCDUer]

64. Because, of course, there were no meter cops that ever became Nazis. nt

[Uncle Joe]

28. I agree, jobycom and the one pleading statement from the survivors of the death camps

was "never forget!"

But it wasn't the death camps they wanted posterity to remember, it was the decade and a half of death by a thousand cuts; dehumanizing entire races of people which turn made the death camps possible.

Without a doubt even, if they didn't complete the journey, Cheney/Bush led us down that path so there is much backtracking left to do.

[Smarmie Doofus]

29. That would include an awful lot of people.....

>>>>They shuffled papers, or cooked omelettes, or went about their daily lives doing normal, everyday little things while the leaders they refused to oppose enslaved and slaughtered tens of millions. To me, that's the essence of the lesson we learn from the Nazis--the worst atrocities are committed when people hide behind the little details.>>>>>


... living and dead, seems to me.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

19. Does That Make You the "Nazi Nazi"???

And yes, apparently some people really are so f**king stooopid they believe it is appropriate to compare smoking bans with the Holocaust.

[pitohui]

23. sorry but hyperbole is a perfectly acceptable part of human discourse

as the other poster put it so brilliantly, "no soup for you"

you can have a sense of humor about the shitty side of human nature or you can be a nit and a grammar nazi, and i don't see how choosing nit and grammar nazi ever helped one prisoner in one death camp anywhere

if it's a progressive site, let's stop futzing around with the penny ante "watch your mouth" bullshit mommy crap and get back on track with the bigger concerns of the day

if a fraction of the time and energy wasted on policing language since the 1970s had been invested in getting universal health care, we would have had it at least two decades ago

what mushmouth has ever changed the world for the better?

the appropriate word to use, is whatever word to use, the writer chooses to best get his or her meaning across -- in many situations, esp. where humor is called for, hyperbole is not just acceptable, it's actually the best choice

a dull white-washed language won't inspire anyone to follow politics or get involved

dance like nobody's looking once in awhile, it really is OK to say "nazi" if that's the word you're feeling for the "nazi" in question

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

25. So Obama = Hitler is OK with You?

Just curious. I think it is idiocy.

[LynneSin]

49. I'm so on the fence about that one but in general it's wrong to use

I mean I saw enough pictures of Bush dressed up as a Nazi when attending protests.

We're guilty on both sides of the fence.

[RaleighNCDUer]

65. Let's look at that.

If someone is claiming Obama = Hitler, what is the comparison? What are the criteria that person uses to make that judgement?

If the person saying it can back it up with facts, it is TOTALLY acceptable. Of course, we know he can't.

If someone says Bush = Hitler, are there facts to back it up? I think there are many similarities - the greatest dissimilarity is that Hitler was an impressive demagogue, while Bush can't put three words together in an intelligible sentence. Control of dissidents? Check. Concentration camps? Check. War of aggression? Check. Limiting of press & free speech? Check. Authoritarian? Check, check, check.

If someone says Obama = Hitler, the proper response is not 'nya nya so are you', but "back that up - HOW are they the same?" I guarantee you, when pushed they will never come up with any facts to support them. Of course, at that point be ready to duck - the unintelligent often resort to violence when cornered.

Free speech means they can say whatever they want. It also allows us to demand that they back it up with facts.

[stray cat]

39. Its not much different than people pretending they are living under a police state

never having actually lived in one to know what in the hell they are talking about

[spoony]

53. Nah, sorry, not buying it

When people use hyperbole and particularly cheap shouts of 'Nazi' in posts, it deflates whatever point they're trying to make. It's bad logic and worse writing. It's not about policing language, just noting that it gets old and makes a perfect wreck of a post's--and for repeat offenders, the poster's--credibility.

[slackmaster]

56. People who abuse hyperbole deserve to be taken out and shot!

:nuke:

[Nye Bevan]

24. When Bush and Cheney graciously handed over the reins of power

to a member of a racial minority, after their party had lost the election to him, I hoped that would put an end to the Bush=Hitler nonsense. Especially after all the "Bush will cancel the elections" and "Bushco will never hand over their power willingly" posts on DU.

[CBR]

26. I totally agree. nt

[damntexdem]

30. Now don't be a Nazi nazi!

;-)

But a bit more seriously, there are criteria by which to judge that something is fascist, and it need not involve killing millions of people.

[Posteritatis]

32. Communist!

;)

[Taverner]

33. So are you saying I can't call the bartenders at the Toronado the "Beer Nazis"?

Because, seriously, there is a eerie parallel between the Soup Nazi and the Beer Nazi

Both serve excellent products
Both had a hidden way of ordering drinks, and they will throw you out if you do it wrong
Both scowl on a regular basis

[NoSheep]

34. Many Republicans could be called nothing more fitting.

[stray cat]

37. Any of them lock you up yet or kill your family?

[NoSheep]

52. No. But they are responsible for that in other countries. I don't see the difference.

Authoritarianism, human rights abuses, racism, bigotry, and killing are the same everywhere aren't they?

[backscatter712]

58. I've gotten death threats from Repubs.

I'll agree with the OP in that we haven't gotten to 1945 yet, with 12 million dead in concentration camps.

We're in the late 1920's, when they were still a piddly-ass fringe party that most Germans couldn't take seriously.

[dugaresa]

67. so we have to wait until they shove people in ovens for them to truly earn the moniker?

sorry. no can do.

look at the German people. don't you think that a lot of folks thought Hitler and his Nazis weren't a bit "off". but none of them really went toe to toe with the crazy bastard from the very beginning to out him as a crazy bastard. by the time he got into power, it was too late and opposing him meant a death sentence.

there are a lot of hard line republicans who would love nothing more than the power to do very much what Herr Hitler did, i've met those folks at Town Hall meetings, people who say stuff like "should kill all the liberals" and you can see they mean it.

[stray cat]

35. Rec. - Melodramatics out of touch with reality is a DU and pundits quality

[winyanstaz]

36. The Nazis were Nazis even before they rounded people up..

They were Nazis BEFORE they murdered millions.
And if people had spoke up louder then..and called a Nazi a Nazi..then maybe those millions would still have had a chance.
And if what is going down is the same propaganda and techniques that the Nazis used to get into power and to keep power...then indeed Nazi is an appropriate name for it.
If it looks like a Nazi, smells like a Nazi..and trashes your civil rights just like a Nazi..then just maybe they ARE nazi's.

[la_chupa]

38. how about gate and czar

car czar?

please

[Ignis]

40. Thanks for trying, LynneSin.

Seriously. :patriot:

I've been called a "Nazi" more times on DU over the past year than I have in my entire life before that.

I don't know what they're putting in the water, but kids these days....

[Berry Cool]

41. I think it's sad that "Nazi" has become a synonym for

"Any person who imposes a strict rule on me that I don't like, or expresses an opinion that I disagree with."

That really DOES trivialize the whole concept.

We have two main villains to blame: Seinfeld and Rush.

[jonnyblitz]

42. I COMPLETELY agree and I say this as somebody who used

to be guilty of doing it. It's an insult to the true victims and their loved ones like you said. As soon as somebody plays the Nazi card I can't take them seriously anymore even if I tend to agree with them otherwise.

[LynneSin]

47. We all learn. I got a sound thrashing when I would refer to Ann coulter as 'Man' Coulter

I deserved it too.

We all insult things we don't like, hell I'm about as bad as they come. But we should be mindful the words we use and what they mean and how they are used in the context of insulting others.

[LanternWaste]

44. Food Nazis. Smoke Nazis.

Food Nazis. Smoke Nazis. Health Nazis.

I see those terms and conclude one of two things-- user is either woefully ignorant of history, or user has a habit of self-dramatization at the expense of reality (the latter reminds me of the petulant three year old screaming at their parents as being "so unfair!" because said parents refuse to give them ice cream for breakfast-- the image that hits me every single time) .

[Thickasabrick]

54. That stupid free speech....whadaya gonna do?? nt

[LanternWaste]

59. Laugh at it when it warrants laughter.

"whadaya gonna do?"

Laugh at it when it warrants laughter. Deride it when it warrants derision. Ignore it when it's nothing but ignorance. Ridicule it when it's ridiculous. Deconstruct it when it based on logical fallacy.

All of which I imagine, in and of themselves are forms of "stupid" free speech too. And I would hazard that in many unimaginative circles, would warrant the question, "Whaddya gonna do?"

ed: sp

[A HERETIC I AM]

45. Same with "KKK"

as in "Glen BecKKK".

It's stupid and useless.

[Hardrada]

46. I remember seeing "Amerikkka" back in 1969 or so and I thought it was cool.

Of course I thought drinking warm Mateus was cool too back then.

[Major Hogwash]

48. My pet peeve is people who have pet peeves.

If you're only bothered by a few things, like pet peeves, then you're just not trying.

[LynneSin]

50. Ironically I have a Pet Peeve about people who have Pet Peeves about Pet Peeves

it's complicated but it is what it is

:loveya:

[Major Hogwash]

51. Day-um! That is ironic.

You're just too smart for your own good.

[Bluenorthwest]

55. Nazis were nazis before they achieved the death camps.

They were Nazis every step on the way. It is the progression toward such things that must be prevented at any cost. One can not wait until the ovens are hot.
Of course, your notion of how one shows respect to those murdered by historical Nazis is not the same as mine, nor as Mel Brooks' in the Springtime, nor as Larry David's. Yours is what I call a co-opting form of respect. You come here to use the fallen as part of an argument about a term of speech that bugs you. Mel made a musical number starring Hitler. I go with Mel.
And by the way, I say this as a person who took a pledge to keep the memory alive, to a dozen survivors of the Shoah when I was 14, at Yad Vashim. Tell me the genesis of your passion for the subject. Other than how it rates as a 'pet peeve'. That holocaust, a real pet peeve of mine. The weather in Miami, you know, it's not the heat, it's the holocaust.
And in closing, you seem to be of the incorrect opinion that there are no more actual Nazis. That delusion may explain your rather sterile and detached view of this subject.
You concern yourself with what is 'cool' and 'uncool'. I myself have a bunch of Nazis who refuse my family equal rights to fight. Those that think some are inferior to others are in fact, Nazis.
Just because they do not come after your people is not reason to defend them from being called by 'too harsh' an insult.

[Crunchy Frog]

57. DU thread Nazis. Can't stand 'em.

:evilgrin:

[winyanstaz]

62. heheh

[Canuckistanian]

63. Nice post, Goebbels n/t

[dugaresa]

66. So you have to wait until the people who have the same political leanings and beliefs of the Nazis

commit such atrocious crimes until you can call them Nazis?

If I meet someone who is a racist who believes in racial purity and who does not hesitate to go out of their way to inhibit other people's freedoms and who also may harbor more evil ideas regarding how to deal with folks they find undesirable, I will not hesitate to call them a Nazi.

[mmonk]

68. You mean like "Verschärfte Vernehmung" or "Enhanced Interrogation"

or like "The Enabling Act" ("Patriot Act") or like "detain and release" or being on a "watch list"?