The Electronic Police State: It's already here...

[MattSh]

Most of us are aware that our governments monitor nearly every form of electronic communication. We are also aware of private companies doing the same. This strikes most of us as slightly troubling, but very few of us say or do much about it. There are two primary reasons for this:

1. We really don’t see how it is going to hurt us. Mass surveillance is certainly a new, odd, and perhaps an ominous thing, but we just don’t see a complete picture or a smoking gun.

2. We are constantly surrounded with messages that say, “Only crazy people complain about the government.”

However, the biggest obstacle to our understanding is this:

The usual image of a “police state” includes secret police dragging people out of their homes at night, with scenes out of Nazi Germany or Stalin’s USSR. The problem with these images is that they are horribly outdated. That’s how things worked during your grandfather’s war – that is not how things work now.

An electronic police state is quiet, even unseen. All of its legal actions are supported by abundant evidence. It looks pristine.

An electronic police state is characterized by this:

State use of electronic technologies to record, organize, search and distribute forensic evidence against its citizens.

https://secure.cryptohippie.com/pubs/EPS-2008.pdf

The top 10, aka the worst offenders:

1. China
2. North Korea
3. Belarus
4. Russia
5. United Kingdom: England & Wales
6. United States of America
7. Singapore
8. Israel
9. France
10.Germany

.

[Chemisse]

1. Call me paranoid, but I would add Facebook to the list

I just got this message this morning (names omitted):

xxxxxx (a friend) just answered: Could xxxx (me) be more than a friend to you? Find out the answer. 3 hours ago

So wtf does this mean? That they read our correspondence and wanted us to establish our relationship so their data bank could be complete?

If say - the FBI - wanted to investigate me, could they subpoena Facebook for all my communications, friend lists, family relationships, etc??

Since I doubt I would ever be under investigation, I put up with it and continue to share info on Facebook, but that is just self-indulgent complacency. Besides, there is the perception that only crazy - or guilty - people complain!

[conscious evolution]

2. Sometimes I wonder

if the best way to fight this is by overwhelming them with by having a mass movement of people posting things to get on the watch lists.

[MadHound]

3. Part of the reason that this has gone unnoticed is that it has crept up on us gradually,

Over the span of a couple of decades. Email's captured, cell phones tracked, data mined, cameras mounted. Pretty soon, virtually every move we make is captured, tracked, recorded. Especially in urban areas where the camera is becoming ubiquitous. That's one reason I like living in a rural area, they simply can't afford that sort of hi tech surveillance.

Another reason that this has gone unremarked is because it has, in large part, been performed by private companies. Of course that data is still readily available to the government.

So what can you do? Well, I'm willing and do forego a cell phone, thus I can't be tracked. My car is an older model, thus my movements aren't saved by the car itself. I also go without all of those discount cards that track your purchases. I pay cash for most of my purchases, thus the data mined is incomplete. And on the internet, I don't give out information that I would be uncomfortable shouting to the rest of the world off of my front porch. Thus I don't use online bill paying or banking or such. I know that these measures are, in many ways, futile. But it does give me the illusion that I'm at least partially foiling these cyberspooks. That, and living in an area where the nearest camera is miles away helps keep my sanity in this regard.

[Chemisse]

4. It is difficult

Because what you are foregoing are luxuries that are pretty enjoyable or convenient to have.

If I thought that - by doing that - all of this would stop and we would go back to the days of privacy, then I would do it happily.

But all that winds up happening is I get stuck doing without, while everybody else gets to enjoy them (new cars, cell phones, online banking). Nobody really cares (since my actions would not be of interest to the government) and nothing changes.

[MadHound]

5. The funny thing is that I don't consider it to be foregoing luxeries,

I consider having a cell phone to be a damn nuisance. I don't want to be perpetually available all the time to everybody. You want to get ahold of me, leave a message and I'll get back to you. Oh, and the whole not being able to be tracked thing is a bonus.

Not having OnStar, well geez, why pay for something that I can do, which is navigate:shrug: I save money and I retain complete control over my vehicle, meaning that Onstar can't remotely listen in on my conversations or shut down my car.

As far as credit cards go, I always thought that they were a sucker's move, and given that my credit rating is excellent without one, why would I want one at this point in my life? Oh, yeah, and bonus, my purchases don't go onto some private database.

I've always had a bit of a Luddite in me, always looked at both the good and the bad of these "conveniences". And I've always found this switch to more and more electronics, more and more digital gizmos to be rather disturbing. Yeah, a computer is cool, but it's a double edged sword, same with cell phones and what have. Too many people are blinded by the shiny new toy aspect and don't see what else is going on.

[Chemisse]

6. Good for you!

It is hard to maintain perspective when faced with shiny new toys. :thumbsup:

[snagglepuss]

7. +1

[blues90]

9. It's seems like sooner than later that everyone will be looked at

Things used to be so simple. Drive through banking was a tube you put your check in and fired it off to a actual person or you went into the bank and none had TV sets and bullet proof glass. Then the electronic bank machines came along but you had two options deposite or take out cash.

A cashier was a person who punched in numbers on a register not a scanner, now there are self serve none human lines.

Most cars now have a remote and I have seen people panic when it won't work and I ask them do you try the key and they feel dumb as they should. Now the entire car or truck is run off computors ,if it quits you are screwed.

All cell phone was just a phone not everything all rolled into one , mine is old no camera or other extras , I got it and my wife did because our phone land line would go out for weeks when it rained.


Everything comes with an offer of an extended warrenty so I then should assume it will die before it's time and most often it does.

I miss the days of the one on one shopping where you knew everyones name that worked there.

Cameras everywhere and I don't trust the internet , I don't do on-line anything. Still have an old bell telephone wired into the wall and it always works.

All these identity theft companies out there and computor spy this and spam that and virus programs.

The only thing I have going for me is I am old now and I don't care to keep up with the latest thing.

[MattSh]

8. Kick