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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 06:00 AM
Original message
Between Hate Speech and Adoration
Statements of undisputed facts about President Barack Obama's actions can generate declarations on progressive websites that one has "gone too far" or said something that "should not be said." Honesty has been replaced by loyalty.

The most common place to find accurate statements on presidential abuses of power is buried in a sea of lunacy on rightwing websites that conclude their analyses with encouragement of violence, gun purchasing, and assassination.

Denunciations of rightwing incitement of violence and hatred come most often from groups and individuals eager to change the topic from the abysmal failures of Democrats who have been given large majorities in the House and Senate, plus the White House, and chosen to do nothing.

Tough talk about the failures of Democrats is most often heard from racist, xenophobic believers in fantastical fairy tales with very little connection to reality.

Room needs to be created for other types of speech. We must be able to criticize and even legally prevent incitement of political violence, while at the same time examining what has made some people susceptible to that kind of talk, and while simultaneously speaking honestly about the failings of the people being targeted.

To do this, we have to be clear about what is unacceptable speech, what is acceptable but misguided speech, what we honestly believe, and what amounts to adoration rather than advocacy. Comparing someone's actions to those of Adolph Hitler is not, by itself, speech that should be suppressed. The phrase "enemies, foreign and domestic" is not verboten. If dictatorial power or fascistic tendencies could not be discussed, huge chunks of what has been said about Bush and Cheney would have to be eliminated along with hours of rightwing radio Obama-bashing. We cannot resist what we cannot mention.

What we should not have on our airwaves are calls for violent "revolution", for persuading our elected officials of their errors by increasing the statistics on gun sales, for hating people's religions or nations or races or sexual groups, and for assassination. We can most effectively resist abuses of power through nonviolence. Blocking the encouragement of violence does not deprive us of any rights. So, the question is not whether the violence is driven by accurate facts and agreeable theories. The question is simply whether violence is being encouraged. Theories that depict groups of people as evil and in need of elimination tend to encourage violence.

What we should have openly reported and discussed are people's fantasies and the possible resentments producing them. These include claims that Obama was born in Africa and claims that Bush shot a missile from an invisible plane into the Pentagon, as well as claims that Jesus will come back if we can start enough wars in the Middle East. We should see the people of Afghanistan burning Obama in effigy and hear honest analysis of why they might be doing that. We should see anti-abortion activists burning Congressional Democrats in effigy, and hear honest analysis of why they might be doing that. The analysis can include the possibility that people are badly misinformed and hurting their own interests, but it must be open, honest, and accurate.

When assassination threats increase, when people begin killing police officers or census workers based on fantasies that politicians and pundits have used to manipulate them, when police themselves begin abusing and even killing members of minority groups that have been scapegoated, clear connections to hateful and inciting language must be drawn and all those responsible held accountable.

But there is no conflict between that and speaking or writing honestly about the actual failures of some of the real people so destructively depicted as the antichrist or devils. We must oppose the use of violence against anyone and everyone. By opposing the assassination of an elected official, I am not joining his or her team. I am not signing a loyalty oath and agreeing to pretend that a bailout for health insurance corporations is meaningful progress. I can oppose the burning of effigies and still describe the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan as massive crimes legally equivalent to mass-murder. I can reject racist portraits of President Obama that label him a socialist, and still advocate for more socialistic policies in our government.

We've all mistaken politics for personal relationships. Our role is not to be a friend or an enemy to a politician. Our role is to encourage them when they work for what we believe is needed, and to discourage them when they move in a different direction. We can best do either of those things by remaining independent and indifferent to the childish notion of being with them or against them. And we can best do either of those things by nonviolent means. In fact, nothing would move our government in a more dangerous direction than anti-governmental violence. And nothing would encourage such violence more than insistence that everyone refrain from criticizing politicians.

On the other hand, nothing would move our government in a more positive direction, than uniting the 90 percent of Americans who oppose Wall Street bailouts around a campaign of nonviolent resistance to antidemocratic abuses, regardless of parties, free of delusions, and apart from all bigotry and foolish distraction.

David Swanson is the author of the new book "Daybreak: Undoing the Imperial Presidency and Forming a More Perfect Union" by Seven Stories Press. You can order it and find out when tour will be in your town: http://davidswanson.org/book.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Do 90% really oppose the bailouts? Serious question.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. i guess there are a lot of polls
as far as i know they all show and have shown a strong majority against wall street bailouts

the phone calls into congress at time of original Paulson Plunder were widely reported as over 90% against

I'll acknowledge that calls to congress are from a self-selecting group

But so is activism of any sort
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. When you make a claim and present it as fact, Mr. Swanson, you have
an obligation to provide evidence. You don't.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. thanks, Polls come and go. I tend to forget exact numbers as I
Edited on Mon Nov-02-09 08:00 AM by joeycola
suppose many of us do.

edit to add:

The reason I asked was because it does seem that the 'left' and 'right' do have something in common-in this case the bailout of the banks. And more generally-the anger towards those in government who do not listen to the people.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. not to mention
opposing gerrymandering, ballot restrictions, corporate control of Washington

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UtilityCurve Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Hmmmm
I dunno. Seems kind of low to me. A worthy inquiry.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. I often find your essays exceedingly wordy and poorly written
this sentence is a fine example of that weakness: "We must be able to criticize and even legally prevent incitement of political violence, while at the same time examining what has made some people susceptible to that kind of talk, and while simultaneously speaking honestly about the failings of the people being targeted."

This claim is simply laughable: "The most common place to find accurate statements on presidential abuses of power is buried in a sea of lunacy on rightwing websites that conclude their analyses with encouragement of violence, gun purchasing, and assassination." Nonsense. Literally.




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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. +1

n/t
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
6. I Support This Article and Recommend It
I'm not sure what all the screaming is about, but you must have hit a nerve, Dave.

Obamaniacs can't handle anything like the truth. Neither can Obama or his staff, especially the Goldmen. And so, truth will bite them in the ass yet again.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. what screaming?: disagreeing is not de facto "screaming".
And if there's a more tired argument than the "you must have hit a nerve" or the variation, "they're scared", I don't know what it is..

And sorry, I'm not an "Obamamaniac", whatever that is. Unlike you, with your dim slinging of thoughtless crap, I was specific about my problems with Mr. Swanson's poorly written piece.
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Viking12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Indeed, the old "They object so vociferously I must be right" argument.
Tired canard of the RW denialists.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. more like tired canard of sloppy thinkers.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. Recommended. Americans do not talk to each other anymore
while they have been in the middle of abuses of power for a decade or more of which they cannot unite around to defeat.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. True. We seem to 'talk'
by belittling, demeaning and name -calling on both sides. We will only further divide ourselves by that tactic.
Not saying all do, but the vile rhetoric is putting a dark cloud over substance of the issues that are a concern for many (on all sides).
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yes. We have been talking "at" each other instead of "to" each other
Edited on Mon Nov-02-09 08:30 AM by mmonk
and it isn't meaningful conversation with any solutions.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
16. This Post, Sir, Remains Swill, And Sets A Standard Of Nonesense You Will Find Hard To Top In Future
If you believe this statement to be true "The most common place to find accurate statements on presidential abuses of power is buried in a sea of lunacy on rightwing websites that conclude their analyses with encouragement of violence, gun purchasing, and assassination," there is no reason for anyone to take your commentary seriously. The actual content of such sites and authors has nothng to do with genuine abuses of Presidential power, but consists of ludicrous assertions President Obama is a socialist, interchangeable with Hitler or Mao or Stalin. Endorsing this sort of thing as legitimate criticism calls into serious question the legitimacy of your own criticisms. Underneath the fluff here, you are simply signing on to the 'Tea-Bag' movement, though they certainly will not have you. Making common cause with people who would sooner shoot you than look at you is a very foolish endeavor.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
17. "chosen to do nothing"
If you were a friend of mine, you should not characterize their actions that way.

If I was 1,000 miles from home and spent six weeks walking 200 miles while also being harrassed by hostile forces, would you characterize that as 'doing nothing'?

Sheesh, by this time the Bush administration had already enacted huge tax cuts that mostly went to the wealthy, pulled out of the Kyoto protocols, dumped stricter arsenic restrictions for drinking water, let 9-11 happen on purpose, and started a war in Afghanistan and yet you think progressives should be unhappy about Democrats in office?

These people who want to complain, complain, complain about how little Democrats have accomplished seem to either want to return to those good old days of 2001 or are unaware of the calibre of disaster that would be happening if Democrats were not in office.
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placton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
19. have a lollypop?
all this serious discussion won't make any difference - and you might get flamed
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
20. Excellent post, David!
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