"Its The Jobs, Stupid !"

[kentuck]

We all want to believe that the economy will get back on track and that the unemployment rate will be below 7% by the time Obama runs for a second term. We all want to believe that jobs lag behind the rest of the economy, as it has in recessions past.

However, I have my doubts. What do you think? Are you optimistic?

[notadmblnd]

1. I'm not optimiatic on the creation of jobs

[ProleNoMore]

2. I Would Suggest That One Might Read This Sobering Assessment

http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2009/10/october-30-2009-interview-with.html

[AllentownJake]

3. The administration's ideology is getting in the way

They've been far to focused on helping the entities that caused the mess to focus on the entities that could get them out of it.

[HughMoran]

11. What entities will get them/us out of this mess faster?

?

[AllentownJake]

15. They are focused on banking

They should be focused on what will grow the economy in the future. They should be offering free college to any student who wishes to major in egineering, nursing, or medicine not just community college.

Can you imagine where this country would be in 5 years if the banks were nationalized instead of bailed out and the money had gone to a Manhattan project of new technology in energy, medicine, and building infrastructure.

Throwing money into banks that are bankrupt is tossing good money into a pit. The current banking industry has shown its inability to wisely distribute capital and needs to be broken up into bits and highly regulated.

The bailouts have been a waste.

Of course even if the President wanted to do that...Congress doesn't have the balls so we'll teeter on for another few months in mediocrity.


BTW China is doing this right now.

[HughMoran]

17. I think we could at least get people into state schools for free

There are many good state-based college systems. Who would run the banking system if we nationalized it - the same people that used to work in the industry who are now in government (you know the crew)? I suppose some good could come from nationalization, but it's not a long-term solution and it would require way too much of Obama's time IMO. We can promote all of those things (and Obama currently is spending money in energy and infrastructure - though you might not see it in every area of the country.) China is smart in some of what it does, but China is a communist dictatorship. I often see people on the left point to dictatorships (Cuba, Venezuela, China) when describing how some governments can "get it done", but these are not examples of free societies. As the Beatles said in the song "Revolution" - "but if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you're not going to make it with anyone, anyhow".

[AllentownJake]

19. On the education front

Alot of countries in the world pay for the education of those entering professions that are beneficial to society. America racks them up with debt.

You want cheaper health care, have the government pay for medical school for doctors and nursing schools for nurses.

You want more innovation, pay for engineers.

Part of the problem in this country is that we put people into massive debt for providing a societal good.

[HughMoran]

21. We're definitely idiot-morons when it comes to education

Obama needs to change this situation now that the people who know "the more you educate someone, the more likely they are to become more liberal" are out of office (the Republicans really don't want kids educated past high-school.) We are so pathetically behind in education, it's going to kill our future forever. In Engineering for instance, we graduated 70,000 a number of years ago (can't remember - heard on NPR), but now we graduate 60,000. In China the number went from 60,000 to 240,000 over the same time period. THIS combined with our governments uncaring attitude about shipping jobs to China (and the rest of Asia) will ensure that this country never ever recovers from this tumble. Promoting education is NOT protectionism - somebody please explain this to the Dems but ESPECIALLY the Republican anti-American forces who should be working TOGETHER to help save this country, not promoting racists and civil war. As bad as the Dems are, it's the Republicans who are going to have us shooting at each other when we should be working toward rebuilding this country and it's infrastructure (physical AND brain power.)

[FreakinDJ]

4. Very Optimistic - BEST YEAR EVER $$$$

Crossed the 100K mark in early Sept.

Anuity - so far at +26% for the year

and buiz is picking up - meetings tomorrow for a New project starting IMMEDIATELY !!

< on edit >

No I am not a foreclosure expert, short seller, or any thing to do with Homes, mortgages, or the stock market

[Le Taz Hot]

27. How nice for you.

:eyes:

[napi21]

5. If you didnh't see it, watch Bill Moyer's show on PBS from this past week.

He had an economist on first who was very good. Second guest was so-so but Bill's closing remarks were excellent. The economist said we shouldn't worry so much about the debt and concentrate on keeping the Country from failing, and Bill said a similar thing in suggesting hiring a lot of people to fix the infrastructure. Not for BIG BUCKS, but maybe $8-$10/hr. Fix the roads, the bridges, the sewer systems, the water systems... Put a LOT of people back to work and get something in return for it too! I think he's right & if we would do that the unemployment #'s would come down, people would be able to at least buy food and maybe stay in their apts or homes, and the much needed repairs would get done at the same time. Right now, continuing to pay unemployment benefits is important for people's survival, but we're really getting nothing in return.

[treestar]

6. We have no way of knowing

Pessimism can have a negative effect. Every recession before has turned around. We have no real choice but to be optimistic.

[sendero]

13. no previous recession...

... has had much in common with this one.

That frustrates me a lot because folks are always thinking that what happened before will happen again. They spout the "12-18 months recession" mantra. We're already almost that far in, but the "recession" is no where near over.

No, it won't be over because the conditions leading up to this downturn don't resemble the past at all.

My personal opinion is that we are in for a non-recovery recovery. We are going to endure a decade-long stagnation like Japan experienced.

But I'm well aware that many don't agree. I think they are mistaken but only time will tell.

[obliviously]

22. You are being optimistic

I think lasting a decade is wishful thinking. The national debt will crush us . The dollar will devalue further and more jobs will go over seas. Our agriculture is declining and oil will become more expensive because of the declining dollar. We will likely have amnesty for illegals soon so there will be more job seekers pouring over our southern borders.

[sendero]

28. Well....

... I do try to moderate my comments here :) I do actually believe in and am actively planning for a scenario somewhat more dire than the one I suggested.

Maybe not QUITE as dire as yours however. For example, the illegal problem will solve itself when there are just no jobs to have.

[ddeclue]

7. DING DING DING - WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!

That's a beautiful title. It really says it all. If only the politicians got it.

[Deja Q]

8. A "jobless recovery" is a non-sequitur. Especially as

jobs have been offshored, they did not vanish. They transferred to help other countries.

Wake me when globalization becomes EXPANSION rather than MIGRATION FOR CHEAPEST COST. The difference is obvious by now, if it wasn't before... in real expansion, nobody loses a job.

[blues90]

9. I am not optimistic at all.

Look where we are now . People are getting screwed from every direction with pay and hours and that is if they are lucky enough to have or find a job.

There is talk about green jobs yet this takes time and it could be many years down the road. Many are too old like me to do most jobs now. hell once you get past 50 what chance do you have?

Who knows what the out come of the so called health care bill will be and when it will kick in.

Then there are the wars and their cost still hanging out there. Many states are broke and cutting back all sorts of jobs and service.

With just this how can one be optimistic , there are signs everywhere.

[Bonn1997]

10. but Obama has saved or created 650,000 jobs already!

[quiller4]

12. Yes. I'm optimistic. In recent surveys of corporations none were

planning additional layoffs and more than half were considering hiring in the first quarter. Once the economy improves and the market rebounds a bit, many boomers who have put off retirement will reconsider that decision and retire. If that coincides with hiring spurts, then the unemployment rate will fall more rapidly.

I personally do not know anyone who is unemployed. Part of that is due to my age. My husband and I retired early. Most of our friends are nearing, at or beyond retirement age. What we hear often is "I want to see another 5% on my 501k and then I'll retire" or "I had planned to retire last June. Now I've made it official. I'm retiring in March."

The firm from which I retired is hiring. The firm where my sister works is both hiring and mandating overtime for a number of employees because their business has picked up dramatically since August. My sister is banking the overtime and planning to retire next November at 58.

[flyarm]

24. did you see Sunday's bankruptsy? that will effect all small business borrowing

and many more will go under..just watch the stock market tommorrow..Monday..it will be ugly..i would bet the farm on it!!

Retail stores will find it almost impossible to borrow money for the winter period after the new year.

[girl gone mad]

14. "Extend and pretend" is coming to an end.

An economy built on bullshit and fraud can't hold up forever.

[blues90]

18. that does sum it up . nt

[Greyhound]

26. It came to an end and they sold the farm to keep it going while they get out. n/t

[kentuck]

16. I still say the best and quickest way to create jobs...

is to take away the employer-based health insurance. Employers are paying like 30% just on heathcare for their employees. Think of the jobs that could be created with that 30%. Think of the increase in wages of people now employed. We truly need a single-payer healthcare plan. At the very least, a strong public option.

[forum slut]

20. Businesses appear to be making profits by cutting jobs, not creating them

Many labor intensive industries have been looking for ways to get rid of people for years and this economic crisis was just what they needed to "trim the fat". Fact is, technology and foreign slave pools have made the US laborer somewhat unnecessary.

[w4rma]

23. Another stimulus bill has to get past the blue dogs in the Senate for any of that to happen.

And I'm not talking about a banker handout bill. I'm talking about another real stimulus bill.

[AdHocSolver]

25. It is all about jobs and only about jobs.

Without jobs, people can't buy anything, pay their debts, or pay taxes. Jobs are the REAL economy. The stock market, in fact, the banking system, is NOT the economy.

An economy is composed of a system of markets in which goods and services are traded using a medium of exchange called money. If people have no way of earning and spending money, there is NO economy.

The stock market is a lottery run by a bunch of swindlers to steal the savings earned by the middle class. The swindlers gull the middle class into using their savings to buy pieces of paper called stocks, claiming that the buyers now own a piece of the company. That is nonsense as the "owners" of Enron found out.

A stock purchaser owns a piece of paper that is only worth what that person can sell it for in the future. The stock prices are manipulated by the insiders so that eventually the stock shares are worth less than the middle class buyer paid for it, while the corporate insiders get to keep the profit they made buy selling the stock to that middle class buyer for more than they paid.

The billions of dollars of bailout money thrown at the stock market was used to prop up the Ponzi schemes. It is a form of "price inflation". Pumping billions into a market of a fixed quantity of stock automatically boosts the stock market. In a monopoly game, it is like one player losing all his money, and then the "bank" gives him a loan so that the players can continue playing.

In our case, the government gave the swindlers a bunch of money to continue the Ponzi scheme. This actually hurts the REAL economy because it removes money from the REAL economy that could pay workers to produce and buy goods. People and "legitimate" businesses are denied the funds given to the swindlers which could have boosted the REAL economy.

The REAL economy will not recover until the goods and services we purchase are provided by American workers. The outsourced jobs have to be returned to America. This is the ONLY action that will revive the economy. An economy cannot survive when all the money flows away. It amounts to draining a lake. With no inflow of water, you wind up with nothing but mud.