Has there ever been another FED. LAW passed that mandates a product be bought from a private entity?

[boston bean]

not state law, but federal law?

maybe there is one, and i just can't think of it.

[pnwmom]

1. This one doesn't either. It allows anyone who needs insurance to choose

either the public plan or a plan from a private insurer.

[eridani]

2. It forces the majority of the population to use a private insurer n/t

[pnwmom]

3. The majority of the population isn't directly affected by the bill because

they already have insurance through their employer. If they don't then they are free to choose either a public or a private insurance plan from the exchange.

[eridani]

4. They are forced to stay with that insurer whether they want to or not n/t

[WillowTree]

11. How so?

[eridani]

27. Read the legislation

If their employer offers coverage, they are not allowed to choose the public option.

[bobbolink]

34. PLUS, they are REQUIRED to be insured.

[eridani]

43. What other option is there if you are 1) required to have insurance and

2) not allowed into the public option even if your employer's insurance is shitty?

[eridani]

26. They are free to do no such thing

They are tied to whatever shit their employer offers.

[dflprincess]

42. The majority is affected because we will be forced to buy insurance

from the crooks that have been cheating us (so much for "keeping them honest") and nothing in the bill says our access to care will have improve.

[madrchsod]

6. a real public plan would be medicare

but this public plan does`t provide that.

[FreakinDJ]

5. Do we need to call a "Waaaambulance"

right now uninsured make up 20% of hospital cost for everyone else - what happened to personal responsibility.

or should we take the RATpubliCON position of "Let them Die in the Waiting Room"

[AllentownJake]

8. So the solution is to take more from people already struggling

Gotcha.

Hospital costs are out of control. Of course when businessman started running the Hospitals, that was not avoidable. I've audited the hospital industry, they look at care units as profit centers.

[FreakinDJ]

12. Yep - and your Always PRO Private Health Insurance Companys

Really Fella I don't give a RATpubliCON's ASS how many Hospitals you've audited. Every time we have this discussion you are all about keeping the profits in the hands of the Greedy Fuck YourMother Bastards that are running this country bankrupt

[AllentownJake]

16. I think you have me mixed up with someone else

I'm a single payer guy. The very reason I'm against mandates is that it provides 50 million new customers to the insurance companies.

A compromise plan would be a plan funded and run by the government with some administrative functions (pre-authorization, claim processing, etc) would be done by insurance companies. That way the only way they profit is by being efficient.

Of course my idea of an outside board (taking the funtion away from insurers) to review appeals and pre-auths that includes government, insurance, and practicing doctors was also told to be impossible.

[FreakinDJ]

29. What prevents Big Businesses from DUMPING onto the tax payers

That is what you would have without mandates

[rug]

9. To answer your question,

personal responsibility became a cynical Republican talking point in 1981.

[madrchsod]

10. we should be proud that the usa believes failure of personal responsibility is a pre-existing

i know it makes me proud to be an american in the year of our lord 2009!

[bobbolink]

35. Ah, yes.... the battle cry of the RW "Personal Responsibility"

[sabrina 1]

49. That's a nice rightwing argument.

Where did you get that figure from? Millions of Americans do not go to the doctor at all and wait until they have an emergency before going to the ER which is the only way they will get treated. After being patched up, they have no follow up care.

AND ~ this is very important as rightwingers believe that people who cannot afford insurance and end up in the ER are treated for free. THEY ARE NOT. They get even bigger bills than the insured. Those who can work out a payment schedule with the hospital and if they have no means of doing that, the hospital will help them to apply for Medicaid. So, where is they 'the rest of us have to pay for these irresponsible no good poor working class people' coming from?

We have Medicaid because this society agreed that the poor would always be among us, and that as a decent society we should take care of them, of the elderly, of the disabled and children.

As for letting them die in the waiting room. We are letting tens of thousands die, people who DO NOT WANT TO BURDEN YOU with their medical bills and so they do not go for treatment.

I guess you would have been against Medicare and Medicaid, and SS too, since we all pay for those programs also. This 20% you and rightwingers claim their fellow Americans are costing them. How about the 30% overhead the Private Insurance Industry is costing all of us?? If we eliminated them and went to a proper National Health Care system, it would cost us LESS to cover the poor than it is costing now.

Odd that your anger would be directed at the poor who are sick and not at the greedy corporations who are far more of a financial burden on society and give far less in return than the working poor you are so angry at.

[madrchsod]

7. this has been brought up on several radio shows

and no one can think of one either. we`ll soon find out won`t we.

[pnwmom]

17. And no one is mandating it now either. Anyone who needs insurance can opt

for the public plan rather than one of the private ones in the exchange.

[bobbolink]

37. Yes, being insured is MANDATED. Really. Saying it isn't will NOT change that fact.

AND, if your employer offers insurance, no matter how crappy, you have no choice.. you MUST ACCEPT what your employer offers.

[onenote]

13. flood insurance?

Not everyone has to have it, but if you live in a designated flood plain, I am pretty certain you are required by law to have flood insurance or you lose certain rights in the event of flood damage. I'm sure there is someone here who knows more about it than I do.

[mmonk]

14. Nope and I'll recommend for asking a truthful question.

[pnwmom]

19. How is that a truthful question? Neither bill mandates the purchase of

private insurance. Both bills allow anyone without insurance to purchase the public option.

[bobbolink]

38. You have stated it right in your post there.

"Both bills allow anyone without insurance to purchase the public option."

Don't you see it, right there?

ONLY IF YOU CURRENTLY DON'T HAVE INSURANCE DO YOU HAVE THE OPTION TO PURCHASE THE PUBLIC OPTION.

IN ANY CASE, YOU *MUST* PURCHASE INSURANCE... IT IS NOW MANDATED. (That is, if one of the bills passes)

Claiming it is NOT mandated is not truthful.

[eShirl]

15. it sounds like a sneaky back door regressive tax

but what do I know

[pnwmom]

18. The OP is based on a lie. Neither bill mandates the purchase of private insurance .

Those who need insurance can purchase the public option.

[Flaneur]

20. You mean I don't have to buy insurance?

Under these proposed bills?

[pnwmom]

21. You don't have to buy PRIVATE insurance, which is what the OP says.

The public plan would be available.

[bikingaz]

25. but you HAVE buy the insurance or pay the fine - eom

[pnwmom]

30. The issue is PRIVATE insurance. No one has to buy private insurance, which

is what the OP is about.

[jtrockville]

33. Those who are offered private insurance by their empoyer..

Are those people required to buy private insurance, or can they "opt-out"?

[bobbolink]

41. I'll keep correcting your untruths until you come clean.

IF YOUR EMPLOYER OFFERS A CRAPPY PLAN, YOU MUST PURCHASE IT.

[sabrina 1]

50. If this bill passes, everyone will be forced to buy

insurance from the Private Insurance Industry. If they fail to do so, they will be fined. If there is no Public Option, they will have no choice.

The OP asked if there has ever been another commodity that the Federal Government has forced people to buy from private businesses.

A lot of people are asking that question. Some are saying it may be Unconstitutional and will be challenged in court.

Can the Feds order you to buy clothes or a car, or anything else? I think it is unconstitutional although I've seen people argue that it is not.

Some say that it is like Social Security or Unemployment. But those are taxes which the government can impose. I am not aware of any other time the Federal Govt. has forced the public to buy a commodity from private industry.

If we viewed Healthcare as a right rather than a commodity, the Government could institute a medical tax and people could drop their premiums and probably save money.

But this whole scam was never about health CARE, it is about saving the Private Insurance Industry by forcing millions more Americans to buy their shoddy product.

[pnwmom]

28. (self-delete)

[Sirveri]

32. Actually you don't. But you'll get a 2.5% tax at the end of year.

So technically, you can not have coverage if you desire. Even though the 10 page summary about the mandate basically says you're required to...

[bobbolink]

39. You are mistaken, and claiming people are lying is really low.

IF YOUR EMPLOYER OFFERS A CRAPPY PLAN, YOU *MUST* PURCHASE IT.

Now, how about an apology for claiming others are lying?

[Selatius]

44. Actually, you HAVE to buy private insurance if your employer is enrolled in a private plan.

You are not allowed the Public Option in the House and Senate bill if your employer already is contracted with a private insurance company. You cannot switch over to the Public Option even if your private plan is shitty. You are locked into it by this bill. Otherwise, a whole hell of a lot more than 2% of the population would be enrolled in the Public Option according to CBO estimates.

[Greyhound]

23. It is. Particularly for the large campaign contributors that are generally

self-insured. This aberration makes it inevitable that they will steal even more of their workers product through rate increases.

[Greyhound]

22. USPS is mandated by law to lease space from UPS and FedEx on thier aircraft,

is that what you're looking for?

BTW, this sweetheart deal for their "private" competitors is both the companies profit margin and most of the reported "losses" of th USPS. They would cave us a lot of money if allowed to buy their own equipment.

[Laelth]

24. I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[PretzelWarrior]

47. that's not true. most of the "losses" of USPS are the congressionally mandated pension reserves

and it is in open discussion between USPS and congress.

[bleever]

31. We had to buy all that crappy work from Halliburton.

But to be fair, that was actually illegal.

[Cleita]

36. Yes, Medicare Part D. Well, it's not mandated but there is nothing else to

choose from. You have to buy a plan from a private provider, often a pharmaceutical company. You still have to pay for it and our govt. paid part has to pay the price they demand. There is no negotiated price.

[Selatius]

45. That's why Medicare Part D as well as Medicare Advantage need to be junked. nt

[Cleita]

48. I couldn't agree more.

I just got my Medicare booklet for 2010. They spent no charts on Medigap insurance and yet pages on the Medicare advantage programs. I guess we know who is running the govt. presses on this.

[high density]

40. Every military contract? NM

[PHIMG]

46. This bill will be the Democrat's Waterloo

Its so god aweful it really needs to die. Start over with Medicare For All.