Ok this is how different things are between the working class and

[nadinbrzezinski]

the middle class.

And no, if you ask me, I am not MIDDLE CLASS m'kay?

My brother is visiting. I love my brother. He is a very successful doctor and makes a good living, and I do not begrudge him that. But here is where things are so different. He is driving to see a friend of his downtown. He is taking the 20 something car that my dad got. He said, you guys don't have a GPS?

My answer... no, we don't have those luxuries.... (truth be told the I-PHONE hubby got to replace his six year old phone does, but not like I can let him take it... hubby needs his phone)

His words... it is not a luxury and many cars have them these days...

Now that exchange summarizes the difference in thinking. For me a GPS IS a luxury... for him it is a necessity. And if the phone did not have it.... well you know what I mean... not rushing to get one for the car either.

And there have been many other little details that show to me the chasm in the thinking of the two social classes, and yes there is a class war...

Oh and he is also part of the working class the way he describes conditions where he works, but I will not go there... lets say they could all benefit from an old fashioned UNION...

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. My sister married into a very wealthy family

We were talking one time about something she had seen on the local news and I said well I am busy cooking dinner in the evening when I get home from work and can't always watch the news at that time. So she asked why I didn't just buy a TV for my kitchen.

Then she got quiet.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. And these are the iittle details that speak of that difference

in thinking, aren't they?

By the way, our fifteen year old TV will be replaced by the five year old TV in storage when this one dies.

That is the way it is. This one is my parent's.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. LOL my sister bought my mom a really nice Sony

I am looking at it right now. When Mom died, we sold most of her furniture but I got the new TV.

[redqueen]

7. Yep.

What about coffee from Starbucks? I asked someone recently how much a month she spends on it... she said she never even thought about it. At $5 a cup, that adds up quick (for me). Is this an example of the kind of thing you're talking about? Or is it too small-change?

[ejpoeta]

10. that's funny..,.. i think about it as soon as I need to buy something and look at my bank account

and think of what the $5 could have bought instead of one cup of coffee. I wouldn't go to starbucks though.... but no matter... if i went to tim horton's and bought an iced cap and some tim bits i'd think about it and feel guilty. I probably would feel that way if I were a millionaire i've felt this way so long.

[JuniperLea]

14. That was the first thing I thought about...

I have a nice Starbucks stainless steel thermal travel mug... it costs pennies per cup when I fill it myself;)

I indulge in Starbucks on occasion. It's an indulgence, not a necessity. This may be the first line between the Have Littles and have Less'?

My grandmother was raised with 14 siblings during the Depression... I learned a lot of frugal ways from her and her siblings and their mother and father. You can be sorta fancy on a shoestring if you put your mind to it.

Your post really made me think, redqueen. Small change. I can make do on small change. If push comes to shove and some of the Haves and Have Mores find themselves without (and it's happening) they won't have the first clue how to make do. There are so many of us who have been making do with what we have for a while, and I think we have a much better chance of survival.

Learning to make do might be a nice little cottage industry... a little emerging market! LOL!

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. For the most part I go to a LOCALLY owned coffee shop

and I order plain out drip coffee any more... I want a latte I make it at home.

We still do the Starbuks when we go gaming... it is either that or Mickey Ds... but it is A LUXURY. I still order their horrible drip coffee and let hubby have the latte

[SoCalDem]

26. and then there's my yuppie son

They come down here twice a year for the Nascar races, and he got tired of renting "crappy campers", so he and his wife drove to Reno and bought something called a "toy hauler"..and since there were two big empty spaces where quads should be, they bought two quads.. That thing has a nicer kitchen than I have..and THREE flat screen plasma tvs..

all so they did not have to spend 4 days (twice a year) in a crappy rented trailer :eyes:

[proteus_lives]

4. I don't have a lot of money to throw around but I got a TomTom.

It's a necessity for me because I drive all over for freelance work and I'm horrible with directions.

But I get what you're saying. My mom gets on back for shopping at Wal-Mart. I don't care for them but it's cheap food and unlike my parents I can't afford to shop at the nice grocery store.

[ejpoeta]

13. my husband bought a garmin gps a few years ago at $600. he bought it because of work...

he drove around wny installing directv and sometimes ended up spending two hours looking for a house to get $10 because he couldn't install the directv anyway.... the gps was worth it. he still uses it today. it is not a necessity, but there are instances where it is a very good idea like your case and my husbands. they no longer update his garmin unit..... guess they expect us to get a new one now then.... that's what pisses me off about these things.... the fact that they make it so you have to get a new one now. which we arent going to do...

[treestar]

5. I hate those things

The person spends more time programming them and trying to get them to work than any time saved just figuring out for yourself where you are going.

they make many mistakes, too, and get you lost. I was driving in a car as a passenger, GPS told driver to exit freeway, ended up in Waterbury, Connecticut, in the town, when destination town was clearly much farther along the expressway.

[seabeyond]

8. we went from amarillo tx to cape cod, the south way there and north and down back

i thought it was a godsend going thru those towns on the screwy unfamiliar freeways.

i was never into them until that trip

and have used recently for in town for areas i dont know. instead of pulling out maps.

i am so not technical. i dont use as often as i could, but love it when i remember to use it

ours find the hotels and restaurants we want to which was excellent on our trip

[a la izquierda]

17. Do you watch The Office?

There's an episode where the GPS tells Michael to take a right...into a pond.

[treestar]

27. Then does it say "recalculating route?"

:rofl:

[a la izquierda]

28. Actually after he crashes into the pond...

it tells him to make a U-Turn.

[Hello_Kitty]

6. I never realized how many things I took for granted until I was unemployed

I was out of work for most of a year and then got a job in April. Last month they eliminated that position and I'm out of work again. My UI is even less that it was before and I only get it for 2 months. My house is in short sale (thank gawd I'm not going to get foreclosed) and they are threatening to turn my water and power off. I've sold everything I could a few bucks for and liquidated my retirement accounts. Poverty is challenging, I gotta tell ya. And yet I still consider myself lucky when I see how bad other people have it.

[JuniperLea]

16. Good for you for looking on the brighter side...

Sounds like you're doing all the right things, and that you have some resources that many do not. Your head is in a good place. I wish you much continued success in keeping it so!

My home is worth half my mortgage principle, and I was just "denied" in my attempt to get a modification. I'm thinking short sale too... I don't have 20 years to wait for my home to double in value so I can break even... and it's increasingly frustrating to see neighbors moving into the exact same unit and know they are paying half of what I'm paying in a mortgage payment. Rents are starting to drop now too because of all the bank owned short sales in the area. I could rent for half what I'm paying now, and could move to a better area paying what I'm paying now. I feel like I'm throwing my money away.

Will you have to pay taxes on the difference in your short sale? I heard talk that the Feds were thinking of doing away with that.

[Hello_Kitty]

22. Keeping perspective keeps me sane.

Plus, I know my situation will improve.

[seabeyond]

9. i have been poor and not poor. lots of differences. lots. nt

[JuniperLea]

11. The last billionaire I worked for made me happy to be lower-middle class...

The class warfare was unbearable; I only lasted 18 months before I walked. Third and forth generation money is an interesting beast. I worked for self-made billionaires who were very different. Oh, they still had funny ideas about some things, but they didn't condescend. They remembered being a bean counter or working at Baskin Robbins to put themselves through college. Some people only remember the silver spoon mummy fed them with... and they expect kid gloves and silver platters from everyone, forever and ever, amen. And if you piss them off by not showing "proper respect" (aka kissing serious ass) then you are shat upon, and expendable. I'm not saying they're all like this... it's just my experience.

I need food and shelter, and a job to keep those going, and a reliable car to get to said job, and clothes to wear to said job. I don't do designer... not after "THAT" job. :scared: SHUDDER! Professional and comfortable, that's it. (You can dress a pig in silk studded in diamonds and pearls, and it's still a pig. Apologies to pigs.) Beyond that, there are no other necessities that money can buy.

I now have a real bad problem with condescention... I don't tolerate it well at all. We are all human, and we can all step off a curb and be hit by a truck tomorrow... and no amount of $$ can save you from your own fate... and no one life is worth more than another.

I now work for and with intelligent adults. What a relief.

[Codeine]

12. "and yes there is a class war... "

Damn right there is, and we're losing.

Badly.

[Romulox]

15. People are really wedded to the idea that there is a "decent" way to amass way more than you can use

yourself while people go without (often mere steps away...)

Or that "economic" and "political" ideology can be separated...

[juno jones]

18. I'm old school.

I have Thomas guides for the area I live in as well as places I visit frequently. Cheaper than GPS and they don't suffer the problems electronic gear does in winter, weather, etc.

We also use the online services like mapquest for directions as well.

I guess I like living by my brains and wits better. Then again I'm just frugal. And poor.

Take care! :)

[Doctor_J]

19. Working class is the opposite of Owning Class

People who get paid for their labor, ideas, etc., instead of getting paid for the labor & ideas of others.

Meanwhile middle class are the group of people who aren't rich, but their means afford a few luxuries (home with a mortgage, 1-2 modest vacations per year, college funds for their kids, etc.) Hence the "shrinking middle class".

[Doctor_J]

20. Hopefully your brother is not among the

"people in the tenements are not that poor - they have microwave ovens!" assholes

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. No he is not

but he has a certain distance in his every day life...

Though when we were there for my niece's bat mitzvah well it was the great power outrage of 2004... lets just say it was interesting how we adapted to it, and how the rest of the family dealt with it. For me the first thing was... once I heard on the radio I ALWAYS carry when I travel, the extent... go to store, get bottled water, food and batteries. We were staying at a hotel my parents paid for.

The rest were not that spry. I admit... my disaster training kicked in... like THAT!

[Nay]

24. I had an acquaintance who came from a very rich family; he told me

about some of it. He never knew what a roach looked like until he was in college. When he came home from school, his bed was made and his room was clean because they had several live-in maids.

Fast forward--he refused to be a banker like his father wanted him to be, so he was disowned, basically. He always wanted to be a pilot, so that's what he became.

Get this: when his parents visited (which was rare), THEY WOULDN'T SIT ON HIS FURNITURE. Normal everyday furniture not cleaned daily by maids--must have cooties!!! And this guy was NOT a slob.

[lukasahero]

25. Not sure the roach example suits your purpose

I didn't grow up rich by a long shot but I didn't know what a roach looked like until I graduated from college and got a job in the city.

[deaniac21]

29. This thread reminds me of an old Monty Python skit.