Ubuntu 9.10 Linux creator calls Windows 7 'excellent release' (windows haters faint)

[Statistical]

Mark Shuttleworth, founder and CEO of Canonical Ltd., the maker of the most popular desktop Linux alternative to Microsoft Corp.'s Windows, not only claims to be "delighted" that Windows 7 is out, but calls the new operating system an "excellent release."

"It's a substantial improvement on the past. Even on netbooks, it's a credible release," Shuttleworth said today during a conference call launching the Ubuntu 9.10 operating system.

Ubuntu 9.10's launch five days after Windows 7's is no coincidence. For the past several years, Ubuntu has carried the Linux community's flag in its valiant-but-so-far-unsuccessful attempts to erode Windows' dominance in the desktop PC market.

-------------------------------------------------------

Full interview here

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9139907/Ubuntu_9.10_Linux_creator_calls_Windows_7_excellent_release_

[Toucano]

1. It's nice to have alternatives.

As to why liberal, progressive DUers feel so compelled to defend and promote products of a monopolistic corporation, I will never quite understand.

[jonmiller74]

4. I agree, but linux isn't for the intellectually lazy.

You have to be willing to grow as a computer user and be frustrated while you work out a novel problems.
Linux gives you freedom from corporate control but most people don't want freedom.
They want to be in the majority.

[PVnRT]

19. So, Windows is for stupid people

I didn't realize I was an idiot because I don't want to spend 5 hours a night debugging my computer's operating system. Thanks for the memo.

[Statistical]

21. What windows sytem takes 5 HOUR a NIGHT to debug?

If you are spending that amount of time it likely isn't an operating system failure but rather an operator failure.

[Edweird]

41. Or people that need reliable GPS software like MapPoint or recording software like

Cubase or Sonar. I like Linux and it has its uses. For somebody who uses a netbook solely for internet - it's perfect. The finest hacker wares are in Linux. I keep a bootable SD drive with my setup in the side of my EEE. Linux, however isn't ready for prime time. I doubt it ever will be until there's a profit motive for software development... but then you'll end up with a new MS. So, for now Linux is filled with promises of 'almost' and 'someday' and 'maybe'....

[msongs]

6. windows is not a monopoly btw, there are many alternatives nt

[Toucano]

7. Microsoft is monopolistic.

Perhaps you missed the rulings of the U.S Department of Justice and the European Commission, who fined them substantially for anti-competitive practices.

[anigbrowl]

25. I don't much agree with those rulings...

I can't stand Internet Explorer and much prefer Chrome - I used to prefer Firefox but got sick of its increasing slowness. However, nothing in windows has ever prevented me from installing the browser of my choice. I am perfectly OK with MS bundling their own broser, media player etc; nothing forces me to use the supplied extras.

[Statistical]

27. I like the EU compromise. Wish Microsoft would do it in the US (even though no legally required).

When system boots up for first time you are given a choice of 5 browsers (safari, IE, firefox, opera, and chrome).

Microsoft has completely decoupled IE in Vista/W7. Previously IE was needed for stuff like Windows Update.

[anigbrowl]

29. honestly, I don't think that's their responsibility

I suppose you could argue that people won't get Chrome if they don't go to Google and know what a browser is, but equally such people are only going be confused by the menu of possible choices. Correspondingly, if I went to McDonald's I wouldn't expect them to offer me the alternative of going to Burger King or Wendy's.

to be frank, as a European I partly see this ruling as sour grapes over the fact that Europe has failed to develop any strong commercial alternatives. Linux is sort-of European since Linus Torvalds is from Finland, but instead of giving the guy a medal he's been studiously ignored since Unix is itself American. this is not say Europe can't innovate technically in the IT space - consider Nokia for example, also from Finland, or the WWW which was invented at CERN - but there is a bit of technology envy at play.

[Statistical]

31. The main reason I like it is because Microsoft failed at the opertunity they were given.

There is international standards for webpages.

The W3C sets them. Exact rules on what tags are compliant and what are not and how they should be rendered.

When Microsoft had 90+ marketshare with IE they could have served the common good by improving IE to be as close to 100% compliant as humanly possible. Instead they utterly failed at the task. Non compliance abounds. IE simply ignores many tags, and improperly renders others, there are thousands of rendering bugs, then microsoft threw in IE only tags and often deprecated them in favor of new IE junk tags with each version.

The only time Microsoft started actually caring about XHTML and CSS compliance was when Firefox gained market share. Having IE non-dominant is in the public's best interest.

So sad the squandered opportunity that Microsoft had to push web towards a high level of compliance rather than a bag of hacks and tricks.

[Toucano]

36. Your analogy misses the main point.

It isn't simply that the consumer shouldn't expect McDonald's to make them a Whopper™.

A truer analogy would be if the beef supplier told McDonald's that they would charge them more for each hamburger if McDonald's sold a burger made of ground turkey.

This is how Microsoft has stifled innovation and free choice in the marketplace.



Your suggestion that the EU commission sought to punish Microsoft more harshly that the U.S. because of "technology envy" is interesting but laughable.

I would question why the U.S. government would be so lenient on such an egregious entity.

[Toucano]

33. Microsoft is as monopolistic as Standard Oil ever was.

It goes well beyond software bundling.

The Findings of Fact in the United States Microsoft antitrust case established that "One of the ways Microsoft combats piracy is by advising OEMs that they will be charged a higher price for Windows unless they drastically limit the number of PCs that they sell without an operating system pre-installed. In 1998, all major OEMs agreed to this restriction."

http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm

Anti-competitive practices, abusive labor practices, false advertising, contributing funding to the Heritage Foundation and the CATO Institute (among others)...these are all liberal ideals, aren't they?

Use the OS you like. I will still find it peculiar that there are actual Microsoft cheerleaders on DU.

[ET Awful]

2. The actual creator of Linux itself, Linus Torvald likes it too . . .

[Richard D]

3. I upgraded to Win 7

from Vista. Computer is buggier than hell. Crashes at the drop of a hat and needs a hard restart. Things that used to work (that still should work) don't work anymore. I miss Vista which worked fine for me for years.

[walldude]

13. Don't upgrade. Reformat.

A clean install will work much better.

[Richard D]

14. That's my next step

Though I dread doing it simply for the amount of time it takes.

[Hawkeye-X]

49. Did a clean install from Ubuntu to 7

Took me only 45 minutes.

Not bad.

Hawkeye-X

[eShirl]

5. "But Shuttleworth sees three potential openings for Ubuntu and other desktop alternatives to Microso

ft."

Interesting article, thanks for posting.

[Statistical]

8. I agree that netbooks are likely the best avenue for attack for Linux.

Windows has two major strengths
a) games
b) corporate integration

Neither of which apply on netbook. Combined that with lower system resources available on netbook and the fact that most are used for web, email, movies, music, flash games and likely not much else Linux is a compelling choice.

[Autumn]

9. I have Ubuntu on one of my computers,

I really like it. It never crashes or bogs down.

[qb]

10. Vista crashed a lot on my computer, and Windows 7 crashes even more.

I don't even get any warning... it just goes to a black screen with a cursor and locks up.

[TheCoxwain]

11. I have been having the worst possible nightmare .. installing Windows 7 .. I hate it I hate it

The support guy was based in New Delhi and did not know squat .. he kept repeating every 2 minutes " Sir .. I thank you for your cooperation "





last MS product I will ever buy ..

I am DONE.

[conspirator]

12. No one hates windows 7 particularly. What we hate is microsoft's scamming practices

Vista was a total scam for the suckers who bought it. Windows 7 may be good, but so is windows XP and ubuntu. No one needs to buy windows 7 unless they were stuck with vista.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

15. I'm surprised that everyone seems to be having issues installing Windows 7

I took advantage of the 30 dollar upgrade for students. I installed it Saturday and although it took awhile to download, so far I haven't had any problems. I upgraded from XP.

[cbdo2007]

16. 99 times out of 100 - it's user error

And usually that 1 person is someone who hates Microsoft anyway and they're getting the error because of some "fix" they did to their computer that messed everything else up. Therefore, of course it's Microsoft's problem.

[TrogL]

20. So it's blame the user as usual

Microsoft puts out an operating system that's a nightmare to administer, buggy as all shit, bloated all to hell, utterly undocumented, where one "fix" will mess everything up, and you're blaming the user?

[anigbrowl]

24. Nonsense. I've been running for months, it's been smooth as butter

I agree with the comments about user error. It's notable that when I see complaints on forums like these the complainant rarely includes any information that might help anyone else to suggest the cause of the problem. No, I don't work for MS or own shares or anything, and I also like Linux.

[cbdo2007]

32. I know lots of people who use computers and the only ones who ever have problems...

are the ones who try to do all this sh*t themselves, and jack around trying to do stuff that no normal human being needs to do on their computer.

I've never had a problem with Vista or any Microsoft operating system. The average user who turns their computer on and uses it during the day doesn't have problems with Vista or any Microsoft operating system. It's the people who already hate Microsoft and are know-it-alls and have installed all this other crazy stuff they think actually does something (but probably rarely does anything useful) who have problems.

It's the same thing with cars. I have a Honda civic that's 10 years old and has never had any problems. I take it to someone to change the oil, get the recommended tune ups and maintenance and stuff. Everything's great.

My uncle is one of those "car guys" who knows more than everyone about cars. He buys a brand new car a couple years ago and within a month he's in there replacing sh*t under the hood himself cause he thinks he's making it better. He almost spends more time working on his car than I do working at my job, cause he's messing around with it. The average person isn't going to have a problem with their car if they do use it normally and just take care of it. He's constantly fixing his car but he still blames the car maker.

[wolfgangmo]

35. Not my experience.

I moved our medical practice to apple when OSX came around. I was on the road all the time and had to field several calls a day because of some windows cockup and our system was simple, had no extra additives and was made as simple as possible. I used a standard recommended install and didn't add any programs other than MS Office suite. And it still crashed or lost data or changed settings at random. I freaking hated it.

And I have had no problems since switching to apple. None.

The proof, as they say, is in the pudding.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. So my mistake with Vista was loading Dreamweaver and Campaign Cartographer

GOT IT...

Okie dokie...

And you mean to a factory installed version of VISTA Ultimate 64...

No issues since we upgraded to XP... ain't gonna go for 7 until I have no fucking choice

[TheCoxwain]

17. you must have done a clean install .. i upgraded so that I preserve everything

well .. I am truly fucked

[SemiCharmedQuark]

18. Nope. I did the upgrade from XP.

I was worried when I started the process. I had to run the program that checked to make sure my computer could handle it. But so far, it's ok.

[Statistical]

22. The XP "upgrade" is a clean install.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

28. Ahhh, yes. I did have to back up my stuff on an external hard drive.

I don't know anything about computers...

But whatever, I got it installed and it works swell.

[Statistical]

23. Two thing I have learned working in IT are......

Rule 1: ALWAYS do a clean install.
Rule 2: No seriously follow rule #1.

:)

This even goes for more expensive stuff. When we upgraded a 3 TB database from Oracle 9i to 11g we built entire new server array and storage area network. We installed Oracle, configured it, took snap shot of production database, moved it to 11g server farm, tested it extensively for 3 weeks. Finally took final snapshot, took 9i database offline, transfer it to 11g database, and retired 9i hardware.

Cost was about $11 million more than using existing hardware and "upgrading". Never upgrade. Clean install and transfer data. Doesn't matter if it is a $399 PC or a multi-million dollar server farm.


To get "unscrewed":
1) Backup all your personal info (data not applications) onto a thumb drive, second hard drive, or DVD(s).
2) Do clean install.
3) Install apps and copy back data
4) Enjoy.


I am not sure why Microsoft even offers an upgrade. 99% of issues are related to a failed upgrade. There is just so much that can go wrong, drivers, applications that overwrote dlls and shared files, incompatibilities, stuff like AV and defraggers which will never be compatible.

If Microsoft offers an Upgrade it should be like XP -> where the "upgrade" prgram helps user backup everything then blows the install away and installs new copy.

[Occulus]

34. ...so I *can* do an "upgrade" from XP to 7?

Because I already own XP Pro 64bit, I'm using the Win7RC, and I want the full version but I definitely do not want to pay $245 for the full OEM install. Yes, I'm aware of the $30 student offer, but I need to know if it applies to people who already own an old copy of XP, because, well, that's me.

[Statistical]

38. You can buy the upgrade edition however when you run the installer it will still do a clean install.

This means you will need to do a backup of files (Microsoft provides a tool) and reinstall applications are installing Windows 7.

Basically as an XP user you get the upgrade price but the DVD will make a clean install of Windows 7.
With an XP license you are eligible both for the student $30 and general $120 upgrade version.

The actual DVD included in student, upgrade, full retail, and OEM* version are identical.
The only thing that differs is the price (and legality of using that license).

The DVD also contains every version of Windows7.
Once again the only thing that changes is the license key.





*(OEM version varies slightly. The others have both x32 and x64 versions on same DVD. The OEM is either x32 OR x64).

[FatDave]

26. "Ubuntu 9.10's launch five days after Windows 7's is no coincidence."

Actually, it is. Ubuntu releases twice a year, every year, and always in April and October.

[anigbrowl]

30. yup, I was thinking the same. Sloppy journalism.

[Toucano]

37. And who could ever have counted on MS to deliver an OS on time?

Facts, schmacts!

[FatDave]

39. Is Windows 7 bringing anything new to the table or is it just a fixed Vista?

I haven't followed it beyond hearing beta testers say it was a lot more stabler than Vista.

XP was the best MS release so far, because not only was it the most stable Windows they'd ever delivered, it was also one of the most innovative. Now Vista was innovative (or so I've heard, I've never actually run any Windows beyond XP) but not very stable. Seems like Wondows 7 is coming too close to Vista to have added a lot of new functionality, so is it just a better version of Vista that doesn't crash as much? I mean I'm sure they moved around all the configuration dialogs like they always do, but is anything really new in there?

[Statistical]

40. Vista made a lot of important changes....

New driver model which decouples drivers from kernel
Much more secure memory model to prevent/reduce malware and other baddies
OS protection system which locks down kernel & system files (to prevent overwrite attack)
Running user account as limited access to prevent escalation attacks
Optimized TCP/IP stack (XP launched when most users were on dialup and most connections were error prone)
Removal of unused processes (extra attack vectors)

Also Windows XP is kinda "dumb" when it comes to new technology likes SSD (solid state drives), large amounts of ram, and multcore processors.
Support was patched on top but those resources aren't used optimally.

However Vista changes came at a price in terms of complexity, and Microsoft failed the launch.

Windows 7 resolves the issues with Vista and is very stable for a day0 Operating System and it provides far more security than XP can ever offer.

So there is a lot new there but most of it is behind the scenes. Changes in how windows works, how programs execute, how resources are allocated, and how windows protects itself from attacks.

The thing that everyone notices is the visuals (and new taskbar is much improved from XP or Vista) however it is what you don't see that is the major changes.

[FatDave]

42. Gotcha. It's a fixed Vista.

And maybe with some new desktop effects. Shame you have to pay for it all over again, when what you're really getting is what you should've got 2 years ago.

[Statistical]

43. Well that isn't true.

I thought you were asking what is changed from XP -> Windows 7.

There are substantial changes to security, stability, and functionality from Vista -> Windows 7.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7#New_and_changed_features

[FatDave]

46. Ooh, new calculator! Now I'm sold.

I bet MS would pay you for this. Talking up their products on message boards.

[Statistical]

47. Then why did you ask the question to begin with?

Oh to be a fucking asshole.

Well you winz.

[FatDave]

48. No, because I wanted to know what was new from Vista to 7.

I asked this very clearly, twice. Once in the subject and again in the body of my first reply. You told me all the new stuff Vista brought to the table, which led me to believe that there wasn't much new from Vista to 7. I stated as much. You said "oh no, I misunderstood, here's what's new" and linked to wikipedia. The wikipedia section largely confirmed my assumption that 7 is more of a stability release than a new version of windows. The stuff listed there basically falls into 3 categories: Should have been in a service pack, application update, or visual tweak.

Now again, I'm obviously not the final authority on the subject, but it sure sounds to me like MS is asking its customers to buy a brand new OS because they fucked up so badly with Vista. Vista had what, a 2-year lifecycle compared to the 6 years XP got? Of course, the other alternative was to release the stability stuff as Vista service packs and let the new apps be handled by Windows Update, but maybe they want to distance themselves from Vista. There was no Windows ME Second Edition either.

[alarimer]

45. Well I am pretty pissed that in order to upgrade I need to upgrade my video card as well.

My computer is only a couple of years old. I am not even sure I can get a video card for this laptop. In any case, I am sure it will cost me in excess of $300 to upgrade to Windows 7. No way is that piece of shit worth it.

So fuck Windows and Microsoft. My next computer will be a Mac. Only $29 to upgrade that operating system.