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Oh, for pete's sake, just vote on the damn bill! It's not that Earth shattering anyhow!

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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 09:14 AM
Original message
Oh, for pete's sake, just vote on the damn bill! It's not that Earth shattering anyhow!
The insurance lobbyists with millions to give have successfully watered down what was hopefully going to be, when this all started, a Universal Health Care plan for America, that would have given medical insurance to all of her citizens - into a mealy-mouthed compost pile of minor changes to a health care mess that will still cripple this nation regardless of it's lofty intentions.

When you can only get the "PUBLIC OPTION" insurance as a citizen who isn't offered health insurance from their employer already - then you're pretty much screwed into thinking a major change regarding health care in this country has occurred.

Yes, this will finally get insurance for 15% of us who don't have insurance, like myself, but we still will be told we have to purchase this, and the premiums, according to the CBO are only going to be about 10-15% under the current rates that private insurers charge. Yes, there will be credits of some sort, but if you're unable to be on state welfare medical coverage because you are employed, and your employer doesn't offer medical coverage or you do not qualify, you are going to have to pay for insurance - and sorry, the 'least of these' should be covered in our society with our taxpayer dollars, and more importantly, EVERYONE should be covered by taxpayer dollars so that this runaway health spending disaster that's decimating lives one by one day after day (who's next!), doesn't destroy our country at the benefit of a few thousand upper management employees at CIGNA, Aetna, UHC, BCBS and others. Medical costs now control 17.6% of our Gross Domestic Product output - we are becoming slaves to our own health problems because of cowardice and bribery in Washington DC, greed on Wall Street, and fear of the unknown from the 'right'.

The level of animosity from the 'right' over this major change in health care laws for some of the population is outright laughable. They've been corralled by their TV-brainwashers at Faux Noise Channel to believe President Obama's bringing a death panel to their grandma's bedside to put her to sleep when she enters the hospital. Yes. That's what they believe. I have a friend in Colorado that won't listen to me tell her she's being fed lies by Fox about the death panels, when ultimately, she should be upset that the cost savings from this public option are only going to be a little more than 10%, and yet, she will be paying taxes on her private insurance to help cover this anemic "Public Option", and those of us who do not buy the premiums and get the plan will be charged with fines. What a deal.

It's almost like they're drawing this out to make us think a fantastic victory is going to occur when Give 'Em Hell Harry Reid gets 60 senators to say yes (even though 51 is all that is needed, but we won't get into that fact) to this expensive mediocre mess of 'bipartisanship'. They should have never worked with the GOP and allowed them to water down the plan to it's bare-bones shell that crawls before us now.



We aren't getting a Universal Health Care "Single Payer" plan for all Americans, in fact we're not getting very much - I just wish someone would tell the rest of the nation...



http://www.slate.com/id/2223023/ GOP got numerous (150+) amendments approved in the Senate H.E.L.P. Committee bill
http://www.pnhp.org/ Physicians for a National Health Program

This isn't right Teddy. I wish you were still here fighting for us.

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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. Maybe they really need to carefully consider whether they pass any bill then?
If this one costs money and does nothing anyone wants?
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I've read several dozen DUers state change that isn't very helpful is hurtful
to the overall goal of fixing the medical crisis we all face.

This will make so many more people believe that any gov't interaction into trying to fix health care in this country is a bad thing.

We need to vote out the senators & reps who have taken $$$ from the insurance companies who fight against either a robust plan of a public option that anyone can pay to be a part of or a true universal health care plan. I realize one is going to be very hard, and the other is going to extremely hard - but we've won many battles before.

I just don't want to see this mess pass and ruin any hope for decades of real reform to stop these dirty insurance companies from putting a price on our lives. (I used to work for one of them, what a mess that was. I got rebutted whenever I tried to push for anything that involved claims and helping customers, but if it saved the insurer money, they were all for it!)
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. There is only one way out of this oncoming political and health care trainwreck
Allow people to buy into Medicare. Even limiting it to just early retirees over 55 and/or the unemployed would produce a very visible pool of satisfied VOTING beneficiaries.
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. Right now the public option is the only way to single-payer.
Just ask the republicans. They know exactly what the public option means.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. The Republicans are arguing against the original Hacker plan...
Edited on Sat Oct-24-09 12:34 PM by slipslidingaway
but that is not what the Dems have proposed in any of the legislation.

From September 29th...

Grassley just quoted the Lewin group estimate which was based on the original Jacob Hacker plan, the proposed public option plans do not resemble the original plan.


Jacob Hacker and EPI speaking about the "Health Care for America" plan.

Health Care For America
3 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-J9ZgCRiD8

If the Dems call them on the original estimates from Lewin then people might question what changed from the original public/private plan proposed by Jacob Hacker. Also the Dems want their base to believe this is a stealth move to SP and do not want to jeopardize the support a PO has received.









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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. It sure is a great show, but the people are losing. :( n/t
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. exactly... we're losing. we're fighting but we are losing - the pigs have been eating away the
backbone of this plan...
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. We've been told to fight for a public option that is still not defined...
so of course they can chip away at the idea.

:(



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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. We'll see what the final bill looks like
However, with our current crop of democrats I'm not holding my breath on what this final bill will look like.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Hi AJ, well, let's just say, that the bill has slowly shifted amendment after amendment to the tune
of what the insurance companies want. The Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee bill had over 150 changes to the bill approved that the GOP senators asked for, in their version of the health insurance bill. They are bipartisan-ing the public option to death.

I hold out hope, always. But, this isn't turning into what most of us wanted. I don't think people should be forced a premium for a plan that will result in them being fined for not buying because their employer doesn't offer health insurance. Especially when that plan is only 10-15% what they'd pay for a private plan they cannot afford.

Also, there's a news thread on DU saying, as I was concerned would happen, that a private insurance company will possibly be running the public option, if it passes. Good grief. Yeah, let's let them run it... sure.

What's the best country to move to that has universal care that allows Americans to become citizens?!
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
6. 10 recs, glad to see that many of the few who've read my post agree enough to rec, because we are
getting swindled folks....
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. knr - "...we are getting swindled folks" we sure are! n/t
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Excellent post and message! Isn't that what we voted for? How hard is it to understand?
So much greed and so much power for those who are destroying our nations most needy like Sen. Al Frankin said so justly:

Thursday, October 22, 2009
Franken Exposes Health Care Lies
jobsanger.blogspot.com

http://jobsanger.blogspot.com/2009/10/franken-exposes-health-care-lies.html

A couple of days ago, the Senate Judiciary Committee held a hearing on medical debt and bankruptcy. After several people testified how medical bills (unpaid by their insurance) had forced them into bankruptcy, right-wingers called a witness of their own.

That witness was Diana Furchtgott-Roth, a senior fellow at the right-wing Hudson Institute. She tried to tell the committee that moving toward a European-style single payer insurance system would actually increase the number of medical bankruptcies. This outrageous lie was too much for Sen. Franken, and he had the following exchange with Furchtgott-Roth:

FRANKEN: I think we disagree on whether health care reform, the health care reform that we’re talking about in Congress now should pass. You said that the way we’re going will increase bankruptcies. I want to ask you, how many medical bankruptcies because of medical crises were there last year in Switzerland?

FURCHTGOTT-ROTT: I don’t have that number in front of me, but I can find out and get back to you.

FRANKEN: I can tell you how many it was. It’s zero. Do you know how many medical bankruptcies there were last year in France?

FURCHTGOTT-ROTT: I don’t have that number, but I can get back to you if I like.

FRANKEN: Yeah, the number is zero. Do you know how many were in Germany?

FURCHTGOTT-ROTT: From the trend of your questions, I’m assuming the number is zero. But I don’t know the precise number and would have to get back to you.

FRANKEN: Well, you’re very good. Very fast. The point is, I think we need to go in that direction, not the opposite direction. Thank you.

..........

From the same source:

One of these brave Democrats was elected to the Senate in the last election by the good people of Minnesota -- Al Franken. I thought he would make a good senator, and he proves that belief was justified with each day he spends in the Senate.

It is a well-known fact that around 62% of all bankruptcies in the United States are caused by medical bills, and 78% of those people had private health insurance (which still left them with enormous unpaid medical bills). It is a shameful situation, and one the private insurance companies would rather not talk about.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. those #'s are damning! how does what they've turned the pub-option into, do ANYTHING to fix these
people from losing everything! We all know someone, or are the someone who has lost everything due to illness costs. thanks for the article on Franken, he's a great senator - we apparently need more comedic senators! (they can mock him all they want, but he is already one of the best senators we have)
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. Talking points for Democrats - Do not say Universal !!! ....
Edited on Sat Oct-24-09 12:42 PM by slipslidingaway
Some talking points from the Herndon Alliance and published on the Third Way site...

One page pdf
http://www.thirdway.org/data/product/file/235/Talking_Points_-_Responding_to_Attacks.pdf

2. Tap into key values the public places on reform:

» Stability and peace of mind
» The middle class
» Choice and control
» Quality
» Continuity—keeping your current plan and doctor
» Value—paying less and getting more
» Affordability
» Patriotism—“uniquely American solution”


Two page pdf...
http://www.thirdway.org/data/product/file/234/Messaging_Health_Reform.pdf

Phrases That Don’t Work

• Politically polarizing language such as talking about the Republicans’ failure to
address the health care crisis or using phrases like “unregulated greed” to
describe insurance companies (references to “excessive profits” are better).

• Don’t say “universal” health care. Talk about “quality, affordable health care for
all.” (But remember—quality, affordable health care for all is largely a message
about access.)


• Don’t compare the U.S. to other countries, or assert that America does not
provide quality health care. (i.e. Do not cite statistics that say the U.S. is 37th in
the world in health outcomes)."


Originally posted here with other links...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6289091&mesg_id=6289091

Uniquely American Solution - What is it ? Why is it being pushed?

Is the goal of the "uniquely American solution" to keep the private health care companies in business and protect their profits? It is not just the Democrats that are using the phrase, Karen Ignagni of AHIP wrote an article in April.




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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. thanks for posting this
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. You're welcome, we certainly do not hear the word Universal...
used by our politicians very much.

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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-24-09 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. K&R
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